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Revision as of 01:16, 17 November 2020

Welcome to Jehochman's Talk Page Please feel free to put your feet on the coffee table, and speak candidly. Or for more better relaxation, stretch yourself luxuriously on the chaise longue in Bishzilla's Victorian parlour and mumble incoherently.

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Barnstar

		The Admin's Barnstar
		Thank you for clearly explaining to me what I need to do at ANI. I recognise I'm still not 100% clear about general WP norms for this kind of thing, since for the last few years on WP I've mostly been able somehow to avoid these boards and just write articles, so guidance from you and others on these matters has so far been indispensable. Double sharp (talk) 20:43, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

ANI thread closed

About this ANI thread you just closed . This was my (intended) post.

@Jehochman and Double sharp: Better not step into this trap Double sharp! A c/p would restart the cycle. While, here Ds is complaining about the flow & closure of an existing thread. One diff (link) is needed and provided. The complaining report asked for is there . -DePiep (talk) 20:47, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

If they want to complain, let them. They'll post some diffs and if people think somebody did something wrong then that person says, "OK, sorry, I understand and I'll change my ways." That ends it, as long as they do change their ways. Don't raise the stakes. Jehochman 20:49, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

DePiep, I understand you're concerned as you contributed to the previous thread. But I'd like to do things properly within the protocol. I've already gotten some good information from Jehochman about how to file a noticeboard complaint, I've asked him a little further question, and I've asked someone else already involved (EdChem) on his talk page on how he sees the situation and how/if I should file another complain. I admit I'm frustrated, and I'd still like to complain again later if that seems to be a reasonable course of action, but I'd like to do it properly. Double sharp (talk) 20:56, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Nothing to add (already wrote ). -DePiep (talk) 21:13, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Dinospeak

Strange talking here. No objection to dinospeak in WP:TALK. To contrary, conciseness encouraged! bishzilla _ROARR!! pocket 20:51, 11 November 2020 (UTC).

Mmmmfff! mmmfff. Jehochman 20:54, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Excuse lint. Sit on sofa! bishzilla _ROARR!! pocket 20:56, 11 November 2020 (UTC).

Ahhh. Could I have some hojicha tea and cookies please? Jehochman 20:58, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Bishzilla is tired of the everlasting logging in. Help yourself, that's what the fridge is there for. And for minimizing political correctness, have a cigar with that! Bishonen | tålk 21:04, 11 November 2020 (UTC).

Tables

Bentley's looks more like a shoggoth than a table. Janet's I can understand based on my mumblety-mumble years ago high school chemistry. Thanks, --Deepfriedokra (talk) 14:21, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

RfAr comments

I don't want to add to my A/R/C comments with anything away from the central issue, but FYI: the alternative picture you posted takes the position that La and Ac are below Sc and Y and has Lu and Lr in the f-block, and so takes one of three positions I mentioned and could be battled over in the same way and for the same reasons. I do agree that our readers deserve much better, though. I note that another editor pointed out that our periodic table is an FA. Sadly, I wouldn't even support it being a GA at present, though I hope it can be edited back to FA standard rather than having a battle over delisting. EdChem (talk) 14:42, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

I see this as a knot of problems having no clear solution other than to start picking it apart one thread at a time. The picture I posted was just an example to get people thinking that there's more than one way to present the periodic table. It doesn't matter which view it supports. "There are alternative views" is the take away.

It's probably a good idea to copy the style used in periodic table everywhere else. If it is disputed which should be the "standard" or "default" view, I think the link I posted to LANL may be helpful. Among the top contenders, it does not so much matter which one we choose; just choose one and stick with it until there's good reason to switch. Jehochman 15:30, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Please take my advice with a big grain of salt. I am ok at physics (having instigated two FAs, Planet Nine and Gamma ray burst) but am just a rookie at chemistry. It might help to contact one or more university chemistry professors and ask them to review periodic table. When I wrote Planet Nine I emailed Mike Brown (astronomer) and he checked the article for us. My experience is that professors are often willing to help if asked. Jehochman 15:38, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Question about Criteria One

Hey- can I ask a quick question? All the details in this map File:Map of the Russell Islands.jpg, including illustration of undersea features that could be hit by ships, elevations on land, etc would be helpful to the readers. If this map were redrawn with all of those details, it would be the same as this image, right? Hence, redrawing the 20th century professional perception of this area in a new map would just be a recreation in duplicate of this image. Please help me! Thanks. Geographyinitiative (talk) 18:55, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Helpful to the readers is not relevant when talking about copyright violations. This map is somebody else's property. We can't use it without their permission unless we have a fair use rational, which we don't. How to redraw it without committing copyright violation (or plagiarism) is a good question to ask somebody who does that regularly. Jehochman 18:59, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

Per recommendation, I am moving this discussion to Misplaced Pages:Media_copyright_questions#Question_about_Criteria_One_of_WP:NFCCP. Geographyinitiative (talk) 16:20, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Copyright violations and Fair use.

Regarding your WP:G12 tagging of File:Map of the Russell Islands.jpg, I want to address your statement on the file talk page "This is a crystal clear copyright violation. I am quite sure you can't use an excerpt of somebody else's map in this way. The non-free criteria is not met." WP:G12 is not the appropriate speedy tagging for a file. WP:F9 is the speedy deletion criteria that applies to file space. WP:F9 specifically states "his applies to obviously non-free images (or other media files) that are not claimed by the uploader to be fair use." This file was claimed under fair use, so speedy deletion does not apply. If you feel that it does not meet one of the non-free content criteria, WP:F7 is the appropriate speedy deletion criteria and there are specific tags to use depending on which criteria you feel it fails. Having said that, the file (in my opinion), faiuls WP:NFCC#1 and I have tagged it as such. -- Whpq (talk) 19:03, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

I sometimes regret our inscrutable bureaucracy. I stated the reason I thought it was bogus to have this file on Misplaced Pages. Thank you for listening to my concerns and setting it up with the correct deletion criteria. Jehochman 19:06, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

One question about the AE closure

Hello; genuinely as a matter of guidance, because I care very deeply about the racial bias on Misplaced Pages stuff and meant everything I said about believing that failure to curb pedestrian everyday casual racism is a major cause of it, and hence want to know where the boundaries are on what I can do about it: in your closing comment you said that I needed to be cut slack—for my statements at AE, presumably—and you said to me, please do not consider this a license to call others "racist" or "disgusting" or cast aspersions without clear evidence. The other user's claims, for example that my vision is to bring Misplaced Pages under a totalitarian rule of fear, seemed much more extreme, unrealistic, and unsupported, but received no admonishment from you or Haukurth; I kind of feel like the implied reprimand was directed at me because what I was saying actually made sense, but broader societal conventions in most places are to avoid confronting this kind of behavior. So, was this a finding that with all I wrote, and all the diffs I brought in and the quotes I presented, it still was not enough to be considered clear evidence of racism by Misplaced Pages standards? Thank you, ‿Ꞅtruthious 𝔹andersnatch ͡ |℡| 20:42, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

No. There is no finding. I just gave general advice not to run around calling people "racists" or other epithets or cast other aspersions without evidence. It was also important for me to recognize the concerns of our colleague Haurkur. My advice is good advice for all parties and observers. The idea is to make sure everyone understand that this is a project to write an encyclopedia, not to judge our peers. To the extent you can do the work without judging others, that is best. Jehochman 01:16, 17 November 2020 (UTC)