| Revision as of 16:38, 28 October 2021 editFavonian (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Administrators287,998 edits →Talk:List of lighthouses in Macau: Declined. (using responseHelper) WP:FORUMSHOPTag: Reverted← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 05:07, 22 January 2025 edit undoApndrew (talk | contribs)94 edits Requesting an edit to Israel–Hamas war | ||
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| * {{pagelinks| |
* {{pagelinks|Joe Biden}} | ||
| Remove: "Historians and political scientists rank Biden as above average in historical rankings of American presidents." | |||
| In the section "which lighthouse?", to add as a reply to MSGJ "<nowiki>:] What about the one in this picture? Is it the same lighthouse? </nowiki>] (]) 12:03, 28 October 2021 (UTC)" ] (]) 12:03, 28 October 2021 (UTC) | |||
| :] '''Not done'''<!-- Template:RFPP#notd --> – ], see ]. ] (]) 16:38, 28 October 2021 (UTC) | |||
| Way too soon to suggest that in the main text of the article! He has barely left office, its going to be at least a few months before such a bold claim can be made. Is there really enough historians and political scientists saying this to justify this claim? ] (]) 08:42, 21 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| === ] === | |||
| * {{pagelinks|Battle of the Plains of Abraham}} | |||
| === ] === | |||
| Can you please change the amount of time the plains of Abraham was. I have a source to prove it it was 15 to 30 minutes long. My source is Quebec-cite. ] (]) 14:59, 28 October 2021 (UTC) | |||
| * {{pagelinks|Israel–Hamas war}} | |||
| :] '''Not done'''<!-- Template:RFPP#notd --> – Present your evidence, including ] on ]. Don't ]; it will get you blocked again. ] (]) 16:25, 28 October 2021 (UTC) | |||
| Currently, the lede states "On 7 October 2023, Hamas-led militant groups launched a surprise attack on Israel, taking 251 captive, against which Israelis responded applying the controversial Hannibal Directive, resulting in the death of 1,195 Israelis and foreign nationals, among which 815 civilians.". This implies that the majority of the casualties were caused by Israel applying the Hannibal Directive, and despite some cases of casualties due to this, no credible source has made the claim that the majority of casualties originate from it. I suggest changing the lede back to what it was before it was randomly edited to the current lede without any discussion on the talk page about it, to "On 7 October 2023, Hamas-led militant groups launched a surprise attack on Israel, killing 1,195 Israelis and foreign nationals and taking 251 captive." ] (]) 12:29, 21 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
| === ] === | |||
| * {{pagelinks|Israel–Hamas war}} | |||
| In the section labeled "Initial Israeli counter-operation (October 2023)" it states the following: | |||
| "A July 2024 Haaretz investigation revealed that the IDF ordered the Hannibal Directive to be used, killing many Israeli civilians and soldiers. An ABC News (Australia) investigation reported that at least 13 civilians were killed in a 'Hannibal' incident in Beeri." | |||
| These sentences are incorrect and not supported by the sourced references. | |||
| First off, the word "many" in the first sentence is gratuitous, misleading, and, perhaps most importantly, not supported by the Haaretz article it references, which never concludes that any citizens were killed as a direct result of a so-called "Hannibal" directive. Nowhere in the article does it state that the Hannibal directive can be tied to *any* deaths, let alone "many" deaths. Any reference in the article to potential deaths caused by a Hannibal directive are stated as questions, or that investigations are forthcoming. (e.g., "Haaretz does not know whether or how many civilians and soldiers were hit due to these procedures, but the cumulative data indicates that many of the kidnapped people were at risk, exposed to Israeli gunfire, even if they were not the target.") Either way, it certainly does not conclude that "many deaths" were tied to the use of the "Hannibal directive" which is highly misleading. | |||
| Similarly, as to the second sentence, the ABC News (Australia) does not conclude that " at least 13 civilians were killed in a 'Hannibal' incident in Beeri". It discusses a tank shooting at a house in Kibbutz Berri , but never states that there is evidence that the IDF tank fire resulted in the death of 13 civilians -- as opposed to the 40 Hamas gunmen who were holding them captive and engaged in a "firefight" with the IDF at the time of the tank fire. The 40 Hamas gunmen could just as easily have killed them as opposed to tank fire. Indeed, an eyewitness stated "Mr Shifroni's aunt Ayala and her grand-niece Liel and grand-nephew Yanai were all killed at Pessi's house — he believes by terrorists", not by the IDF and ""There are a few others that we still don't know and we may never know what exactly killed them." Later on in the article, it states "The team determined that most of the hostages were likely murdered by the terrorists, and further inquiries and reviews of additional findings are necessary.". | |||
| I propose that the sentences be re-worded as follows: | |||
| "A July 2024 Haaretz investigation revealed that the IDF ordered the Hannibal Directive to be used, putting the lives of some Israeli civilians being held by Hamas at risk.. An ABC News (Australia) investigation reported that after a prolonged firefight in Kibbutz Be'eri with around 40 Hamas gunmen who had been holding 15 hostages inside and outside, 13 of the hostages may have been killed by either the Hamas captors or IDF tank fire." | |||
| ] (]) 05:07, 22 January 2025 (UTC) | |||
Latest revision as of 05:07, 22 January 2025
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Joe Biden
Remove: "Historians and political scientists rank Biden as above average in historical rankings of American presidents."
Way too soon to suggest that in the main text of the article! He has barely left office, its going to be at least a few months before such a bold claim can be made. Is there really enough historians and political scientists saying this to justify this claim? BlunanNation (talk) 08:42, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
Israel–Hamas war
Currently, the lede states "On 7 October 2023, Hamas-led militant groups launched a surprise attack on Israel, taking 251 captive, against which Israelis responded applying the controversial Hannibal Directive, resulting in the death of 1,195 Israelis and foreign nationals, among which 815 civilians.". This implies that the majority of the casualties were caused by Israel applying the Hannibal Directive, and despite some cases of casualties due to this, no credible source has made the claim that the majority of casualties originate from it. I suggest changing the lede back to what it was before it was randomly edited to the current lede without any discussion on the talk page about it, to "On 7 October 2023, Hamas-led militant groups launched a surprise attack on Israel, killing 1,195 Israelis and foreign nationals and taking 251 captive." Aradkipod (talk) 12:29, 21 January 2025 (UTC)
Israel–Hamas war
In the section labeled "Initial Israeli counter-operation (October 2023)" it states the following: "A July 2024 Haaretz investigation revealed that the IDF ordered the Hannibal Directive to be used, killing many Israeli civilians and soldiers. An ABC News (Australia) investigation reported that at least 13 civilians were killed in a 'Hannibal' incident in Beeri."
These sentences are incorrect and not supported by the sourced references. First off, the word "many" in the first sentence is gratuitous, misleading, and, perhaps most importantly, not supported by the Haaretz article it references, which never concludes that any citizens were killed as a direct result of a so-called "Hannibal" directive. Nowhere in the article does it state that the Hannibal directive can be tied to *any* deaths, let alone "many" deaths. Any reference in the article to potential deaths caused by a Hannibal directive are stated as questions, or that investigations are forthcoming. (e.g., "Haaretz does not know whether or how many civilians and soldiers were hit due to these procedures, but the cumulative data indicates that many of the kidnapped people were at risk, exposed to Israeli gunfire, even if they were not the target.") Either way, it certainly does not conclude that "many deaths" were tied to the use of the "Hannibal directive" which is highly misleading.
Similarly, as to the second sentence, the ABC News (Australia) does not conclude that " at least 13 civilians were killed in a 'Hannibal' incident in Beeri". It discusses a tank shooting at a house in Kibbutz Berri , but never states that there is evidence that the IDF tank fire resulted in the death of 13 civilians -- as opposed to the 40 Hamas gunmen who were holding them captive and engaged in a "firefight" with the IDF at the time of the tank fire. The 40 Hamas gunmen could just as easily have killed them as opposed to tank fire. Indeed, an eyewitness stated "Mr Shifroni's aunt Ayala and her grand-niece Liel and grand-nephew Yanai were all killed at Pessi's house — he believes by terrorists", not by the IDF and ""There are a few others that we still don't know and we may never know what exactly killed them." Later on in the article, it states "The team determined that most of the hostages were likely murdered by the terrorists, and further inquiries and reviews of additional findings are necessary.".
I propose that the sentences be re-worded as follows: "A July 2024 Haaretz investigation revealed that the IDF ordered the Hannibal Directive to be used, putting the lives of some Israeli civilians being held by Hamas at risk.. An ABC News (Australia) investigation reported that after a prolonged firefight in Kibbutz Be'eri with around 40 Hamas gunmen who had been holding 15 hostages inside and outside, 13 of the hostages may have been killed by either the Hamas captors or IDF tank fire."
Apndrew (talk) 05:07, 22 January 2025 (UTC)