| Revision as of 01:59, 12 September 2008 view sourceRussavia (talk | contribs)78,741 edits →BLP problems: c← Previous edit | Latest revision as of 22:10, 13 February 2020 view source JIP (talk | contribs)Administrators68,826 edits removed obsolete messageTag: Replaced | ||
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| == Nord Stream == | |||
| You're right, the way I had written that was not very NPOV. Thanks for fixing that. Cheers, <small><font color="AE1C28">]</font><font color="#21468B">]</font> • 2008-06-14 17:30</small> | |||
| == ??? == | |||
| I was astonished that an admin reverted your ''tagging a cat'' at http://en.wikipedia.org/Category_talk:Australia%E2%80%93Russia_relations with the comment that russia project doesnt tag cats? That is so weird - what makes that project different from the rest of[REDACTED] that thy dont want to know what they have? I do hope you can enlighten me - it is so odd I wonder what rationale there is for such an illogical process ? ]] 14:45, 5 August 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :Actually (and pardon me for intervening, since I suspect this is going to end up on my talk page one way or the other anyway), I am untagging the cats and the templates precisely because I ''do'' want to know what we have. It is the cats and the templates which completely screw up the unassessed counts in ]. This, of course, is due to the fact that "Categories" and "Templates" are not included in the stats as separate lines, but while it would be trivial to add them, I still don't see what value it would bring. Suppose we find out that we have, say, 500 cats and 200 templates. So what? Is there some particular utility to this knowledge that I'm missing? If so, I'd love to hear what it is (and will, of course, stop untagging until this is resolved). If not, this tagging simply creates an extra load on the servers without serving any useful purpose. Feel free to move this thread to WP:RUSSIA's noticeboard, by the way, as I feel we could use some extra input. Cheers,—] • (]); 15:01, 5 August 2008 (UTC) | |||
| Nah dont bother - youve explained - thats fine and thanks for taking the trouble to explain - we have just had a bot at the australian project -http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Contributions/TinucherianBot - and I quite misguidedly (from your explanation I am sorry I am I cannot really answer the technicalities as to whether there is benefit in such a bot job) - I just used to manually tag australian cats for a while - | |||
| So apologies russavia for clogging your talk. and ezhiki - I'll let you know if anybody at the australian project ever explains the benefit of the bot etc. ]] 15:10, 5 August 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :No hard feelings on my side at all. I am still very interested to hear Russavia's side of the story—it seems it was him who's been tagging many of the cats I later untagged (without realizing that a human person tagged them in the first place), so I imagine he must have a reason of his own. Cheers,—] • (]); 15:19, 5 August 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :I've only done them as I presumed it was the norm within the project. Although I only ever tag an occasional category, as I think there are better things to be doing that pasting tags all over the place, and often I just forget. I will tag articles if and when I find them, but tend not to bother doing categories and templates. --] <sup>]</sup> 11:10, 6 August 2008 (UTC) | |||
| My apologies for bringing all of this up here - it is probably a project noticeboard issue rather than personal talk item - as for the practical use of them - heheheh you're welcome to you opinion ]] 11:14, 6 August 2008 (UTC) | |||
| Russavia, would you mind if I continue to untag the cats and the templates then? My main concern is that their inclusion screws up the stats for unassessed articles. I don't think WP:RUSSIA has a norm as far as this issue goes, but considering the above it seems like a good idea to establish such a norm now, and seeing no use for cat/template stats, I suggest to never tag said cats/templates. Please let me know if you have any objections. Thanks!—] • (]); 14:56, 6 August 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :Not all, I see the point in not tagging categories and templates. If I run across them in future, I'll try to remember to remove them also. --] <sup>]</sup> 15:24, 6 August 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ::Please '''never'''do that in the New Zealand, Australian or Indonesian projects for any reason - cheers ]] 15:27, 6 August 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :::Of course, only talking about ] cats/temps here. --] <sup>]</sup> 15:47, 6 August 2008 (UTC) | |||
| You might be interested in reading ]. It's about tagging the pages in non-article namespace. Cheers,—] • (]); 12:57, 27 August 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == Australia–Zimbabwe relations == | |||
| Hello, I'd like to enquire as to why you renamed ] to ] recently. This isn't an ownership thing, but I was unable to find any distinct policy on the naming of such articles, you did not leave an edit summary or a note on the talk page, and a quick look through some of the bilateral relations categories indicates that there is a mix of the two naming styles (along with a handful of special cases) with neither being obviously preferred to date. | |||
| If there has been a recent consensus to adopt this naming style for these articles, I'd be in your debt if you could point me towards it so that I don't make any errors if I create more such articles in the future. Thanks, ] <sup>(])</sup> 01:18, 24 August 2008 (UTC). | |||
| == ITN == | |||
| {| class="messagebox {{#ifeq:|yes|small|standard}}-talk" | |||
| |- | |||
| |] | |||
| |On ], ], ''']''' was updated with {{#if:|facts|a news item}} that involved the article(s) {{#if:|s|}} ''''']'''''{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} ''''']''''' | |||
| }}{{#if:|{{#if:|, |, and}} ''''']''''' | |||
| }}{{#if:|, and ''''']'''''}}, which you created or substantially updated. If you know of another interesting news item involving a recently created or updated article, then please suggest it on the ]. | |||
| |} <!-- ], ] --> --''']'''<sup>]</sup><sup>]</sup> 23:55, 25 August 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == ] == | |||
| Hello. I'm Ryan, the mediator of the above ]. Would it be possible for you to pop over to the link above so we can start the mediation properly? Regards, ''']<sup>See ] or ]</sup>''' 01:47, 27 August 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == Talk pages == | |||
| Please note that article talk pages are intended for discussions of how to improve the article. Editor speculation on what countries may or may not do is not going to improve the article and is therefore indeed off topic. And other editors are in fact entitled to remove off topic discussions. The header of the page you are referring to in fact says it. I am personally not going to remove discussion but this doesn't excuse editors from rambling on in talk pages ] (]) 18:30, 27 August 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :P.S. Frankly I'm disappointed that an experienced editor such as yourself thinks it's okay to speculate in talk pages. I know it happens and I have no real problem with editors that do it occasionally (I do it myself sometimes) but there's a difference between doing it on occasion and saying it is okay ] (]) 18:35, 27 August 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == IRC and EP == | |||
| Dear Russavia; I don't think that is a big deal. :) ''IRC'' is the ICAO code and ''EP'' the IATA code for ]. IRC6895 and EP6895 are both correct. I give an example: on http://ikia.ir/ we have a "schadule flightse" ( :D ) and all codes there are ICAO style, like "IRA721" to Frankfurt am Main. And we have (PDF), with all flight codes in IATA style, including "IR721"; but you see, it is the same. Aseman Airlines itself uses the IATA style in its (PDF); don't take the trouble to find "EP6895" in it; unfortunately you will find only "EP6889" and "EP6890" between Mashhad (MHD) and Bishkek (FRU). Best regards. ] (]) 21:45, 27 August 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == {{tl|SouthOssetia-stub}} and {{tl|Abkhazia-stub}} == | |||
| Hi - two or more stub types which you created have been nominated for deletion or renaming at ]. The stub types (templates or categories), which were not proposed at ], do not meet the standard requirements for a stub type, either through being incorrectly named, ambiguously scoped, or through failure to meet standards relating to the current stub hierarchy or likely size, as explained at ]. Please feel free to make any comments at ] regarding these stub types, and in future, please consider proposing new stub types first! | |||
| It is worth noting that stub templates are virtually never created for independentist regions until such time that they are recognised internationally by a significant number of countries, as these stub types tend to become the targets of potential edit-warring (something which has far more far-reaching effects on templates than it has on articles). Thus, for example, there is no stub type for Turkish North Cyprus, since it is only recognised by one country. If Abkhazia and South Ossetia become recognised by more than just one country, then feel free to propose the creation of stub types for them. Until then, it is generally accepted practice with stub sorting for them not to have separate stub types. ]...''<small><font color="#008822">]</font></small>'' 01:42, 28 August 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :Unfortunately, this is ]. As commented already, it ignores long historical, cultural and linguistic differences with Georgia, and the people of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, for the most part do not regard themselves as Georgian, and we apparently take into account self-identification here on WP. Discussion will be continued at the SFD. --] <sup>] ]</sup> 14:32, 29 August 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == WP:Russia == | |||
| I can fix that, just tell me what links should be included. --] (]) 11:14, 28 August 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == Apology == | |||
| I am sorry for being a bit brash at ] in our earlier discussion. You were right, the changes made by {{user|Be Black Hole Sun}} were done in good faith from the outset and instead of complaining I should have just gone and merged the older stuff that was removed with the new version. ] (]) 16:41, 28 August 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == intl recognition of == | |||
| Hi, | |||
| I don't know if you have noticed but the map is removed by a user who actually tried destroying it on commons, something that I would refer to as chain vandalism as he then here claimed how image is bad and should be removed. I asked him a number of questions ] about the issues he might have with the map but the furthest he went is too blab about western POV hitting Misplaced Pages. He doesn't want to respond to those questions, claims them to be answered. I asked for admins to comment on noticeboard yesterday and they said his reasons were bogus and that there is nothing wrong with the map. May you please re-put the map which corresponds to the article very well (you can check the legend and every statement and you'll see). Thanks, --] (]) 21:28, 29 August 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == Picture of Russian Embassy in Tajikistan == | |||
| Hey Russavia, . Since you are working on the embassy's of Russia project, I thought you must be interested on this. | |||
| Cheers --] (]) 05:16, 30 August 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == Re: {{cl|Kosovo stubs}} == | |||
| Hi Russavia - I have reverted and re-protected {{cl|Kosovo stubs}}. This category was the subject of severe edit-warring for quite some time, and the only solution that editors could agree on was for it to be part of a European parent. As such, it has deliberately been left separate from {{cl|Serbia stubs}}, feeding directly into {{cl|Europe stubs}}. | |||
| Edit warring is bad on articles, but it is many times worse on template/category combinations, since any changes simultaneously affect many articles, putting unnecessary strain on Misplaced Pages's servers (this is one reason why high-use templates are automatically protected). I would advise you to read some of the history of the category and template talk pages for Kosovo-related stub templates, and also some of the discussions on them on the various WP:WSS talk pages, before considering any further changes to these stub types. ]...''<small><font color="#008822">]</font></small>'' 23:11, 31 August 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :Would you be able to point me to the discussion where it was decided that editors agreed it should only stay as part of a European parent? Because I can't for one second believe that Serbian editors would ever have agreed to such a thing. --] <sup>] ]</sup> 13:41, 1 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == CIS - Saakashvili == | |||
| Whatever Georgia's current status is in CIS, please make sure that your edits are not motivated by political hatreds. I am saying that because I have not mentioned Saakashvili at all but you suddenly made him part of the justification of reverting the edit. Please try not to do that that again and keep your opinionated edits to yourself. I never mentioned Medvedev when reverting anyone.--] (]) 13:26, 1 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :My edits never are, nor have been, motivated by my belief that Saakashvili has betrayed his own people and country, and acts only in his own self-interests and the interests of his masters in Washington. My edits are NPOV, and will continue to be as such. The edit summary relates directly to your own with saying Georgia doesn't care; the fact is, Georgia is still a full member of the CIS for the next 12 months, whether Saakashvili likes that or not. --] <sup>] ]</sup> 13:38, 1 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == CIS map (latest effort...) == | |||
| I like your latest CIS map: I think it reflects the complex situation correctly. Please make sure to keep a true copy in case it gets vandalized. I only suggest changing the legend for Ukraine: "Non-member founding state". Ukraine is one of the three CIS founders, no escaping from the fact (see the proposed version put up for comments in ]). --] (]) 13:52, 1 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :A copy of the map will always be found on commons, and can always be reverted if changes are made to it which don't reflect the reality of the membership of the CIS. In regards to Ukraien, if you think the legend should be changed, feel free to do this if you like; I am more concentrating on these South Ossetia article at the moment; the CIS one being on my list of things to get around to, but which I never seem to do, but I'll try to lend a hand in the coming weeks. --] <sup>] ]</sup> 17:20, 1 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == Serbian Embassy image == | |||
| Hi Russavia, | |||
| Thanks for your recent message about the Serbian Embassy image. | |||
| I know things have gone wrong with it, I just didn't remember to specify the licence when I was uploading it, and I re-uploaded it to choose the right licence but apparently it didn't work. What do I do? The image qualifies as own work, so there should be no problems with the copyright. | |||
| Do I have to delete it and re-upload? Let me know what's best to do. | |||
| I will upload more images of all the embassies at Mosfilmovskaya Street provided I get close enough to take pictures. | |||
| Take care, | |||
| ] (]) 14:21, 1 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == EU and it neighbors == | |||
| I am just wondering why did you make THIS | |||
| edit? The article did not say that they were EU members so you need to stop placing misleading information in the editing summary. Article said that Moldova and Ukraine are EU neighbors - meaning they border the EU.There is a very big difference between being a neighbor and being a "member" you need to get it fixed or I will have to revert all other edits because it does not let me do it separately.Stop placing misleading edit summaries --] (]) 15:07, 1 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :The mere fact that I took it to mean that Ukraine and Moldova are EU neighbours, with English as my native tongue, is evidence enough that others could misconstrue the sentence as it was written that Moldova and Ukraine are in the EU; either way that they border on the EU is quite irrelevant in the overall scheme of things --] <sup>] ]</sup> 15:17, 1 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| No, it is not irrelevant and it is not very important either. Its just that when they are neighbors, they are neighbors and there is no need to remove it and misinterpret things in the edit summary. We can not assume who would "misconstrue" the statement and who would not. Whether you are a native speaker of English or not is irrelevant - even a beginner can see the difference between a "neighbor" and a "member" state.--] (]) 15:21, 1 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :It is irrelevant, it matters not that they are EU neighbours, what matters is that they are construed to be in the Russian sphere of influence, and which has until now been threatened by the US and EU. This is what this is all about, one nations sphere of influence encroaching on another's, and the EU's tacit support of such. Germany's EU neighbour is France. An EU neighbour of Latvia is Lithuania, and it is in that sense that it could very well be misconstrued. --] <sup>] ]</sup> 15:25, 1 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| '''Sphere of Influence''' is the term from last century and that is exactly where Russian mentality still is, However, I think political opinions are irrelevant while editing the article. You have a dangerous tendency of making politics part of the discussion and even naming particular names that you dont seem to like. The fact that those countries border EU is not irrelevant because the fact that they directly border it definitely made the fears more intense. IT should be mentioned to effectively communicate the fact that they are closer to EU than Georgia is, which by itself makes fears even more intense.--] (]) 15:30, 1 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :Sphere of influence is a term from this century, and as has been opined by many analysts on this situation, only the mentally asleep do not see what is happening here. And of course it has EVERYTHING to do with politics. Have a read of to begin with. --] <sup>] ]</sup> 15:33, 1 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| I do not care what that article is about. All I care about is to make sure that politics has no place in the editing process.--] (]) 15:36, 1 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :If you don't care what the article is about, then please also think about the consequences that certain terms and the way things are words can have; how they can come across to certain editors. Also, the removal of information is usually best done AFTER requesting a cite. If you know that the fact these countries border on the EU is reason for the EU to be scared, then you would surely also know that these ex-Soviet countries are in fact traditionally within the Russian sphere of influence; the removal seemed to me to be just a tad disruptive; much like your whacking an NPOV tag on ] without a corresponding discussion on the talk page for it. --] <sup>] ]</sup> 16:01, 1 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == table format destinations lists == | |||
| Can you please have these reverted to original format as for all arline destination list articles, ], ], ].] (]) 16:56, 1 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :I am hesitant to do that on any articles, due to the fact that these lists have been nominated in the past for deletion, and have only just scraped through. If they were all to be nominated again, my opinion will have changed to delete them, due to them not being referenced to independent, non-airline, reliable sources. You may want to raise the issue at ]. --] <sup>] ]</sup> 17:01, 1 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == Support Russia == | |||
| I'm belives if Russia recognised independence Abkhazia and South Ossetia, Russia should recognised independence Kosovo. It is fair. Im Russian. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 11:53, 2 September 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| :Absolutely, and the same goes for US/NATO/EU. The hypocrisy of all sides is amazing, but such is the way of international politics. But I can say, it is great to see that Russia is now a strong state again, unlike the mid 1990s when the rest of the world, particularly the US, ignored the potential consequences of their actions in treating the Russian people as below themselves, and disregarding Russian worries with the eastward advance of NATO. A strong Russian state was inevitable, it's just a shame that the rest of the world missed their chance to make Russia a true equal partner. --] <sup>] ]</sup> 12:04, 2 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :::Someone is going around relisting Kosovo as part of Serbia in airline destinations lists, I have reverted it for ].] (]) 13:05, 3 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ::::Kosovo is part of Serbia in relation to international civil aviation; just as Abkhazia and South Ossetia for the foreseeable future will be part of Georgia in terms of same. Until such time as any nation is a UN member, the ICAO will regard these destinations as part of it's present/former state (depending on which side of the divide one sits). --] <sup>] ]</sup> 19:05, 3 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == Disputed fair use rationale for Image:Sangye Penjor presents credentials to U Thant.jpg} == | |||
| Thank you for uploading ''']'''. However, there is a concern that the rationale provided for using this image under "fair use" may not meet the criteria required by ]. This can be corrected by going to the image description page and add or clarify the reason why the image qualifies for fair use. In particular, for each page the image is used on, the image must have an ] linking to that page which explains why it needs to be used on that page. Can you please check: | |||
| :* That there is a ] on the image's escription page for each article the image is used in. | |||
| :* That every article it is used on is linked to from its description page. | |||
| Please be aware that a fair use rationale is not the same as an ]; descriptions for images used under the fair use policy require both a copyright tag and a fair use rationale. | |||
| If it is determined that the image does not qualify under fair use, it might be deleted by adminstrator within a few days in accordance with our ]. If you have any questions, please ask them at the ]. Thank you. NOTE: once you correct this, please remove the tag from the image's page. ] (]) 23:35, 3 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == Images menaced with deletion == | |||
| Hello, Russavia | |||
| On ] I saw your ordeal in defending the images from Osinform. Your collocutor said that one could express one's opinion in the appropriate request for deletion. However, I do not know which pictures are in question, would you write them, so that I express myself too? Greetings ] (]) 18:17, 5 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == deccan becomes ] == | |||
| This Indian carrier has been rebranded, wiki article is diverting to new name but destinations article still reads ], please update it.] (]) 18:27, 5 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == Reverts == | |||
| Howdy, as you probably know I'm just hanging around ] watching and trying to keep divisions to a minimum. I happened to notice this sequence of edits. While I commend you guys for not continuing to revert each other, its still not what it could be. The edits I'm talking about are and . | |||
| :Please be sure that that you guys are able to discuss this and come to a valid conclusion. I'd suggest starting a talk page discussion if there is not one already (I did not see one). | |||
| :Finally please note that I am including the same message to ]. —— ''']]'''</font> 15:03, 7 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| Excuse me but my point is completely neuthral | |||
| I am removing non-neuthral point of viuew and biased points of vciuew which is misleading the readers, like for example the incorrect information about massive shelling of Tskinvali(was denied by international observers) and number of civilian casualities. | |||
| Also to keep article neuthral I have added "According to the Russian media" to the parts which are so far reporter only by the russian media and no one else. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 10:46, 8 September 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> | |||
| :That is little better, much much better than "according to Russian propaganda". We don't use according to Georgia, US, EU propaganda, so there is no reason to use it for Russian, unless of course one is trying to introduce their own POV into the article, and that was the objection that I had to your massive revision and removal edit. --] <sup>] ]</sup> 11:42, 10 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == Int'l recognition US Congress quote == | |||
| No, I am not Russian. And I actually agree with that there are already too many quotes on the page. But a quote from a U.S. Congressional Hearing on this precise subject is pertinent and therefore it should stay. You can read more and . ] (]) 17:20, 10 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| : Hello mate, hope all is well "down under"... I agree with the article's "owner" that there are some excessive quotes but what started it was the introduction of POV-quotes by everyone from Robert Gates, Bush, Condi Rice, etc. I already pointed out that this was undue weight as per ]. Now I merely added one more single quote, which is from Washington too, but which is about balance and fairness. It is notable, being a key part of pertinent hearings. But immediately the article got slapped with 3 new litter-tags. ] (]) 18:04, 10 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :: I have never heard of the Medvedev Doctrine? Do you mean the five points of foreign policy (multipolar world, etc.)? If so, that is certainly ] the mad Dr.Strangelove-like ''Defense Planning Guidance'' from Washington. But I don't have any interest in Russian foreign policy. I just found the Abkhazia recognition article and decided to add it to my watchlist after I noticed how unbalanced it is compared to how the same subject is treated on Kosovo's recognition page. ] (]) 18:32, 10 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == South Ossetian geography == | |||
| Nah, I'm not stalking you; I just had Pocopoco's page watchlisted for a reason I no longer remember and your post was the most interesting thing to pop up on my watchlist when I checked it :) | |||
| Scanning the pages is a possibility, but my copy of the book with the list in question is in a truly abysmal condition, and I'd rather not subject it to a flatbed scanner torture. Besides, I'm not sure the results are going to be very readable, so I'll just stick to typing. No big deal, really (unless you are going to ask for the whole book next, in which case I'm afraid I'll have to refuse :)) Anyway, I'll start the list ], and you are welcome to move it to wherever it is convenient to you. Cheers,—] • (]); 19:15, 10 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :No problem at all. The book is called "Грузинская ССР. Административно-территориальное деление на 1 января 1987 г.", изд. "Сабчота Сакартвело", Тбилиси, 1988. If you live in Russia, you probably have better chances of finding a paper copy, though.—] • (]); 19:30, 10 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ::I do not support aggression, either Russian or Georgian. ].—] • (]); 20:30, 10 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :::I'll be damned if I know. The official Russian documents recognizing South Ossetia are pretty vague and certainly do not go into such uninteresting and unimportant details as borders :) You'd probably have to look at what South Ossetian powers-that-be produced on this subject and then compare their data with the old borders. Anyway, have fun with the list and let me know if there is anything else I can help with! Cheers,—] • (]); 20:44, 10 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| == Edit warring == | |||
| So you know there has been a ] however I also see that you were involved in the sequence of reverts, as such I'd like to bring it to your attention this section ]. Thanks. —— ''']]'''</font> 17:36, 11 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ==BLP problems== | |||
| Frankly speaking, I think that labeling people "criminals" is inappropriate if the convictions were disputed by international human rights organizations, who described the victims as political prisoners. Since you are doing this repeatedly, I ask you to revert yourself back. If you disagree, I will have to ask for additional opinions at the BLP noticeboard and other appropriate forums. Thank you.] (]) 22:50, 11 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :If Russian courts convicted them of criminal offences, then they are criminals. Just because a human rights organisation claims they are political prisoners, this does '''not''' change the fact that they were convicted on criminal charges in Russian courts, thereby making them '''criminals'''. You can't have one POV without the other I am afraid. --] <sup>] ]</sup> 22:52, 11 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ::Since you refused, I will post this at the BLP noticeboard to collect more opinions.] (]) 23:02, 11 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| :::From article ]: "''it also happens that political prisoners are arrested and tried with a veneer of legality, where false criminal charges, manufactured evidence, and unfair trials are used to disguise the fact that an individual is a political prisoner.''". Are they criminals?] (]) 23:50, 11 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
| ::::And I suggest that you read the definition of a criminal. The political prisoner moniker may fit your anti-Russian POV, but you have clearly forgotten that we are ], this means he may be regarded as a political prisoner by one side of the equation, the other side says he is a criminal. What you are doing is ], and that's a no-no. --] <sup>] ]</sup> 01:59, 12 September 2008 (UTC) | |||
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