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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was no consensus.  Sandstein  09:05, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

Israeli British

Israeli British (edit | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) (delete) – (View log)

Fails WP:NOTDIRECTORY because it doesn't establish why this intersection is notable. Also seems to confuse Israelis for a single ethnic group when they constitute a nationality. Cordless Larry (talk) 09:34, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

• Keep I am currently trying to improve this article, I believe it should definitely be kept for several reasons:
  • Over 10,000 members makes it a fairly large and notable group
  • The UK is one of the most popular destinations for Israeli emmigrants
  • There are the same number of Israelis and UK born people on Britain's 50 Richest list
  • Along with the above, there are more famous Britons of Israeli ancestry
  • I have managed to find surveys etc. on Isreali opinions of being in the UK and about the UK
    

Stevvvv4444 (talk) 12:20, 23 December 2008 (UTC)

• Note: This debate has been included in the list of Ethnic groups-related deletion discussions. —Cordless Larry (talk) 12:40, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
• Note: This debate has been included in the list of United Kingdom-related deletion discussions. —Cordless Larry (talk) 12:40, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Thanks for the contribution, Stevvvv4444. I'm still not convinced of notability though. Here's why:
    • Over 10,000 members doesn't make a group notable on its own. Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned the size of the group in the nomination, but I feel notability doesn't just rely on size. There are more than 10,000 brown-haired British people, but there's not an article on that. Per WP:NOTDIRECTORY, the article needs to establish why this intersection is a notable phenomenon;
    • Israeli migation to the UK isn't a major phenomenon (especially in comparison to the US - see Yerida);
    • The fact that there are six Israelis on the Sunday Times Rich List undoubtedly makes those six individuals notable, but I don't see how it makes Israelis in the UK notable as a group and ditto the famous Brits with Israeli parents (following the same logic, Clare Balding is a famous British lesbian, but we don't have an article on British lesbians);
    • The surveys, while interesting, don't all directly relate to Israelis in the UK. One is about the attitudes of Israelis in Israel to the UK, which I don't see how is related at all. Even when they do relate to Israelis overseas, they don't really establish notability. They just describe how Israeli expats feel about the countries (not solely the UK) they live in. Cordless Larry (talk) 15:20, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
• Delete No evidence this is a notable intersection of of nationality and residence. Edison (talk) 15:59, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
• Please note for reference that the article has been moved to Israelis in the United Kingdom. Cordless Larry (talk) 16:04, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
• Keep- Notability can be established in a extensive collection of sources in article about "Israeli women living in the UK: challenges to identity and psychological implication." --~ —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jmundo (talk • contribs) 16:14, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Again, I don't see how that establishes notability. The sources in the conference paper (I presume you're referring to the footnote references) aren't specifically about Israelis in the UK. Futhermore, the paper itself hasn't been published in an academic journal. Cordless Larry (talk) 16:27, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
• Strongest possible keep (notable ethnic group) and block proposing editor for continued disruption of our project; constantly proposing articles about ethnic groups for deletion rather than improving or merging; editor has been asked numerous times to stop this behavior. Badagnani (talk) 19:03, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
  • Please state your reasons for keeping the article, rather than just saying keep and launching a personal attack on me. Cordless Larry (talk) 20:43, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
  • For the fourth time, now. Stop calling for the banhammer on other users! Your blatant and gross incivility are digging your hole even deeper. MuZemike (talk) 01:42, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
    • I called for an editor to be blocked, and you make a death threat? That is outrageous! Badagnani (talk) 02:51, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
      • How is what I said a death threat? "Digging a hole for yourself" means getting yourself into even more trouble. That has absolutely no connotation of threatening someone with bodily harm. MuZemike (talk) 08:18, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
• Keep If we are judging whether or not the subject matter of the article is worthy of Wiki space, then certainly I feel it should stay. However, I also feel that there are many supposed facts which are not backed by refs or verified in any way. The article is in a 'rough draft' state and needs fleshing out, verifying, and smoothing. But once that is done, the subject itself is not inappropriate in my view. --Gurumaister (talk) 21:05, 23 December 2008 (UTC)
• Keep The nominator has not made a cogent case for deletion. Ecoleetage (talk) 01:55, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
  • What's not cogent about the argument that the intersection isn't notable? Cordless Larry (talk) 02:06, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
• Delete WP:DIRECTORY StonerDude420 (talk) 07:32, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
• Delete As the nominator states, Israelis are not an ethnic group (Jews, Arabs and Druze are), and so cannot be classed as an ethnic group in the UK. пﮟოьεԻ 57 16:56, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
• Keep Seems to be substantial coverage of Israelis in the UK. If it's not enough for a stand-alone article, it's been suggested that this type of article could be merged. Larry, thoughts? ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:46, 24 December 2008 (UTC)
  • What would you suggest merging it with? Cordless Larry (talk) 23:40, 24 December 2008 (UTC)

That's a good question. But if there's news coverage of Israeli British, it should go somethwere. In this case I think there's enough coverage for a stand alone article. Even in cases where there's not, can't the statistics be combined in some kind of list or demographics article? Surely that is encyclopedic. I often see that kind of thing in Atlases, which are a kind of geographic encyclopedia, no? ChildofMidnight (talk) 02:00, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

The stats are already included in Ethnic groups in the United Kingdom. Cordless Larry (talk) 02:38, 25 December 2008 (UTC)

Delete. Israelis are not an ethnic group. Just like having Argentine Brazillian or a Bolivian Columbian, it simply does not make sense. STOPkillingMuslims _Talk 23:49, 27 December 2008 (UTC)

• Keep and move to Israelis in the United Kingdom. The article is sufficiently referenced to prove that migration of Israeli citizens to the United Kingdom is a notable phenomenon; the fact that those migrants may belong to multiple ethnic groups is irrelevant. cab (talk) 03:25, 28 December 2008 (UTC)
  • The article has already been moved to Israelis in the United Kingdom; this title does not imply that "Israelis" are an ethnic group, so again, I fail to see the relevance of the objections by LOTRrules and Number57. cab (talk) 03:27, 28 December 2008 (UTC)

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.