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	! align="left" style="background:#ff0000; color:#ffffff; font-weight:bold;" width="100%" \| <center>Welcome to my talk page!</center><br />Please sign your post with the four tildes, like this: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki><br />Remember: New topics go at the bottom!<br />To keep a topic intact I'll reply here.
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			<div class="center">'''And don't forget, just in case you don't get it:<br /> Politeness and civility are just two different ways of<br />demonstrating passive-aggressiveness.'''</div>

			== IRC cloak request ==
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	<center>'''Please note that if you leave a message here then I'll reply here'''.<br />
	'''Likewise if I leave a message on your talk page please reply there'''<br />'''as I'll be watching your page. Thanks.'''</center>

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	== WikiProject Greater Manchester July Newsletter, Issue XVII ==

			==Orphaned non-free image File:RJ Wagsmith Band - A Christmas Message.ogg==
	{{Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Greater Manchester/Newsletter/July 2009}} ] (]) 19:38, 4 July 2009 (UTC)
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	== ] ==
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	My copy of ] was a double album. Look at the article- the album is 74 minutes long, far too long for two sides of vinyl. It may have been a single elsewhere, but I've never seen it as one. Even ] . ]] 15:18, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
			==Orphaned non-free image File:Pet Sounds (hamsters album).jpg==
	: My ex-wife's copy was a single (it had to be her's, I'd die if anyone saw it in my collection! <_>). But I'll give you that one, but as far as sales goes, worldwide The Wall sold more than SNF. The 15m in the SNF article was US sales (The Wall only hit 11.5m in the US) but it doesn't mention worldwide sales. It is widely regarded that The Wall was the biggest selling double album worldwide, over SNF (OST) and HIStory. --''']]''' 15:46, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
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	::Certainly SNF is the biggest-selling ''soundtrack'' of all time, regardless of format. I will take a look at both articles when I have time, to make sure we are not comparing apples with oranges. ]] 15:50, 6 July 2009 (UTC)
	:::Yup could be as The Wall wasn't a soundtrack. --''']]''' 15:54, 6 July 2009 (UTC)

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	== Care In The Community ==
			==Orphaned non-free image File:They Live By Night (hamsters album).jpg==
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	I have no wish to take this further. <small><span style="border:1px solid #0000ff;padding:1px;">] : ] </span></small> 23:36, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
			\|}

			==Orphaned non-free image File:Route 666 (album).jpg==
	:Actually I do, but I won't without Web Hamster's permission. --] ] 23:42, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
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	::I have no beef here. But having spent time with people who were affected by that act (due to mental illness and degenerative diseases such as Alzheimer's) I find that using it in refernce to an IP on Misplaced Pages making stupid trollish edits is simply - well - wrong. And I'm not talking some bullshit third party opinion here - my gradmother died shortly after the state decided community care was for the best. So apologies for being over sensitive, but WH - you need to consider that just because you find it funny (as you stated) that doesn't mean it's actually still ok to post it. <small><span style="border:1px solid #0000ff;padding:1px;">] : ] </span></small> 23:47, 8 July 2009 (UTC)
	:::We've all been affected by the daft "care in the community" ideas Pedro, your experience is nothing special. As part of my psychology course I had a placement in a hospital for what was then called the "mentally subnormal". Those hospitals have all gone now, but I wonder to this day what now happens to all those I saw in there who couldn't possibly have survived elsewhere. --] ] 00:39, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

	People who actually have a sense of humour can find anything funny. As someone who was a paramedic for 10 years I'm well aware of what "care in the community" actually means. I also have personal experience of it, yet I can still find a laugh somewhere. That just leads me to believe that you are suffering simultaneously from a piousness overdose and a humour deficiency. I recommend that you don't use your own beliefs to lecture others as they maybe lacking in certain areas. Now as far I'm concerned you've had your say, I've had mine. The rest is up to you. Either way I won't be withdrawing anything. --''']]''' 12:30, 9 July 2009 (UTC)
	:As I said above, I have no beef with you personally. <small><span style="border:1px solid #0000ff;padding:1px;">] : ] </span></small> 15:34, 9 July 2009 (UTC)

	== Anti-Americanism ==

	Consensus only matters among those making an effort to work toward it. Your only contribution to the discussion so far has been to contradict, and distort the actual points. The refs don't support the statements. Also, the refs aren't neutral or factual. ] (]) 04:00, 10 July 2009 (UTC)
	: You require consensus to remove a long-standing and referenced section of text. Refs do not need to be neutral, all they have to do is support the text they are being used as a reference for. They are factual, what they don't do is support your POV. The refs do support the text, you just can't see through your own biases. My contribution, as you call it, is to maintain the status quo against a POV warrior trying to remove parts of the article when he has no consensus to do so. Get consensus and I'll stop reverting you. --''']]''' 09:49, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

	::What's required is an effort to work toward consensus before you invoke consensus to block changes. Name-calling and refusal to address the basic points shows antipathy toward consensus. Misplaced Pages should be neutral, which doesn't happen when refs are one-sided. Refs have to do more than support what is said: they have to be reliable and factual. Opinion pieces published by the US military are neither. At the very least, Misplaced Pages should report opionated refs as expert opinion, not fact. But, the fact is, the refs don't support what is said. Why don't you QUOTE the part of the refs you think support this article, as a starting point for working toward consensus? ] (]) 16:13, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

	:::Why don't you start an RFC if you think you can gain the required consensus? Whilst you're at it see if you can find another editor that shares your belief that the refs don't support the prose. If it's as obvious as you suggest then you shouldn't have a problem. --''']]''' 16:37, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

	::::Why don't you just answer the question? Can you quote the parts of the refs that actually support the statements? It should be easy. ] (]) 16:47, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

	:::::It is easy, I just can't be arsed wasting the time on someone like you. The point still remains that you have no consensus. Either go get some or stop fucking about. --''']]''' 17:05, 11 July 2009 (UTC)

	::::::There is consensus. Nobody is objecting except you. You don't count as being against consensus, because telling people to fuck off means you aren't participating in the consensus process. ] (]) 15:58, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

	:::::::Which only goes to show that you don't have a clue what consensus is let alone how it works. Currently there is you and I. You don't have consensus on your side. I told you what to do. Open an RFC and let a wider audience decide. You seem resistant to that idea or is it because you are concerned that your interpretation will be discounted as I have done. Now stop whinging and whining all over the place. Go get other editors to support your potty ideas. I'm sick of explaining this to you. --''']]''' 16:09, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

	== Well spotted ==

	] (]) 16:05, 10 July 2009 (UTC)

	== "my" page / "my" talk page ==

	Question of terminology here for you. ] you say there is "no such thing as 'my' page". While I totally agree with you, and have been wondering for some what one ''should'' say.

	To say e.g. 'See User:SimonTrew' to refer to 'my' user page seems ugly, and could lay ] since discussions entries are signed ''at the end'', so it may not be immediately apparent I am referring to 'my' page. It is excaserbated that other things on the Misplaced Pages banner ''are'' listed as e.g. 'my talk page', 'my watchlist', ''my contributions, encouraging the idea that it would be 'my user page' (though of course that is simply listed with the user name, not 'my').

	I can't see any way around this without excessive circumlocution, and in most cases it is simply a convenient fiction to call it 'my user page', and not controversial.

	I should appreciate your views.

	] (]) 12:43, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

	:Ah, but it seems you missed the bit that qualified my statement. I said there was no such thing as "my page" ''in article space''. So it doesn't take much to interpolate that sentiment to "my page" in user space. --''']]''' 13:04, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

	::Ah, perhaps that distinction was too subtle for me. Nevertheless, since "Nobody owns any page" it would appear that it is ''not'' "my user page" in any sense of ownership; though it seems the most convenient way to say it. ] (]) 19:52, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

	== Please be civil ==

	Hi. Your comment on my talk page did not appear to be civil at all and I have removed it. Your accusing me of such things as "sticking my nose in" was very rude and quite offensive. The situation may not have concerned me, but an incident concerning you was posted at ANI, a place for uninvolved editors to look at a situation and help to resolve a problem. That was exactly my intention, as is every time I have discussed issues with fellow editors on ANI. FYI, accusing me of not knowing the history was quite daft, if I'm being honest, because, as proper editors do when resolving issues at ANI, I did look at the significant history of the situation. And even if I hadn't, there is no excuse for telling an editor that you ''just can't be arsed wasting the time on someone like you.'' While it may have been your true feelings at the time, it wasn't a very nice message to leave to that editor. Even if it wasn't intended as a personal attack, it was still uncivil and you were warned accordingly. There was no need to launch at an uninvolved editor who was trying to resolve a problem in which you were involved.

	Now, please don't take this message the wrong way. Instead, please do ] because I like to promote the idea of civil editors working together to help build an encyclopedia. Incivility between countless editors has burdened the growing of Misplaced Pages for years, and still will in years to come, but the more we are civil to each other, the more we can achieve. When an editor is in need, offer a helping hand. When you are in need, ask around. In other words, as Misplaced Pages editors we should all try to help each other out and try to get along with each other. I like to get along with everyone. I'd get along with you too if you'd let me...

	Hopefully you'll see this message has provided you with words of encouragement, and has strengthened you as an editor. The more civil we are and the more we help each other out, the stronger we are and as Wikipedians, the more we can accomplish. --<span style="font-family:Arial"><sup>]</sup><sub>]</sub></span> 21:26, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

	:I'd suggest that you keep your garbled word salads to yourself, as I doubt that WebHamster is any more impressed with your gobbleydegook than I am. Go play somewhere else. --] ] 22:16, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

	::Mall, I waould say the Sky Attacker is very well spoken and also well within his right on Misplaced Pages to ask to be treated with a certain level of respect. Your response to him was uncalled for. ] 22:20, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

	:::Oh, for God's sake, not you again. --] ] 22:26, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
	::::That was uncalled for too.]\|<small>]]</small> 22:38, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
	:::::What has led you to believe that I care what you think? --] ] 22:41, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
	::::::Wow. That was partaialy insulting.a There's also a thing called civilty. ]\|<small>]]</small> 22:44, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

	:::::::Perhaps you might care to explain what "partaialy insulting" means? --] ] 23:18, 12 July 2009 (UTC)

			Note that any non-free images not used in any '''articles''' will be deleted after seven days, as described in ]. Thank you.<!-- Template:Di-orphaned fair use-notice --> --] (]) 18:41, 22 November 2023 (UTC)
	::I have left a civility warning on Malls talk page. Any further discussion about him should be on his talk page, not here(imho). ] 22:55, 12 July 2009 (UTC)
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	Sky Attacker, firstly leaving a template on my talk page is not going to help any situation, secondly go stick your lecture. I am not going to be lectured by anyone let alone a noobie, not at my age. I also never assume good faith and I firmly believe than anyone who does is far too naive to survive on WP. Now I don't know what you expected to achieve, yet it's pretty bloody obvious you aren't making anything better. You come to my talk page drop a template and immediately start lecturing me on how I should behave. As such I don't feel I owe you any civility so don't expect any from me. So you have the choice of no expectation of civility or fucking off and doing what you came here for, ie editing an encyclopaedia. Your choice. --''']]''' 09:50, 13 July 2009 (UTC)

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And don't forget, just in case you don't get it:
Politeness and civility are just two different ways of
demonstrating passive-aggressiveness.

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