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==Subpages== ==Subpages==
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#Agree, ] (]) 01:46, 5 December 2010 (UTC) #Agree, ] (]) 01:46, 5 December 2010 (UTC)


==Final draft of end of war, trial and execution==
==Resume collaborative editing==
I've removed the editing marks of the section on "last days." It is posted here for final review before combining with other sections. Any final comments, or suggested changes? Discussion section is below. Next we can either look at the whole combined draft (along with sections of JJG's draft not yet included), or pick another section to finalize. ] (]) 20:20, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
I appreciate the level of discourse in the preceding section. I think that we are ready to resume editing of portions of the article. I've Nuujinn to select the next passage for editing. I've done that in recognition of his work thus far and also because, with the changes to the article by Свифт, I am not sure where to go next. If the three editors who have agreed to work on this can agree on a work plan, that would be great. Would you be willing to resume editing here on that basis? ] (]) 19:20, 4 December 2010 (UTC)
:While it seems that we did got to understand that the "Mihailovic, a collaborator" thus "], axis force" is wrong, in the meanwhile, other participants (direktor) have been editing all related articles in the most radical way posible completely ignoring what has been donne here. That constitutes a major problem. ] (]) 07:18, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
⚫ ::It does seem contrary to the spirit of the mediation. Direktor: Comments? ] (]) 22:59, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

==New Section for Editing: After World War II==
⚫ Please follow the same procedure as before, pick a color and make changes. <span style="text-shadow:#DDDDDD 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texthtml">--] (])</span> 13:49, 5 December 2010 (UTC)



] ]
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===Continued fighting and capture=== ===Continued fighting and capture===


Mihailović <s>went on</s> <font color = blue>travelled</font> north <font color = blue> from ???</font> with a group of several dozen Chetniks. In the village <font color = blue>of</font> Bulozi, near ], on the night of 23 May 1945 <s>Drazin's</s> <font color =blue>Mihailović's</font> son Vojislav was killed. <font color = blue>During the next several days, Mihailović</font> <s>Draža the next days was moving</s> <font color = blue>traveled</font> towards the Drina River, with a group of 22 Chetniks, <s>which is</s> divided into several <s>parts</s> <font color = blue>units</font> for easy movement. Mihailović <font color = blue>then</font> crosse<s>s</s>d the river Drina, and <s>some time</s> remain<s>s</s>d in the <s>area</s> <font color = blue>vicinity of ] and ] for some time, before returning to</font> <s>but then returned to the environment of</s> ]. In February 1946, <font color = blue>Mihailović</font> fell ill of ] fever. He was captured near Višegrad <font color = blue>on 13 March 1946, hiding in a foxhole,<ref>Walter R. Roberts, ''Tito, Mihailović and the Allies 1941-1945'', Rutgers University Press, page 307</ref> after his hiding place was revealed by one of his chief lieutenants, Nikola Kalabić, either accidently or exchange for leniency.<ref>Jean-Christophe Buisson, ''Le Général Mihailovic : héros trahi par les Alliés 1893-1946'', Perrin, Paris, 1999, pp 250-251</ref><ref>Walter R. Roberts, ''Tito, Mihailović and the Allies 1941-1945'', Rutgers University Press, page 307</ref></font> <s>Only after 11 days,</s> In his keynote address at the National Assembly, <s>on</s> Interior Minister of the Federal People Republic of Yugoslavia, ], announced <font color = blue> on 24 March 1946</font> that <s>Dragoljub</s> Mihailović <font color = blue>had been detained</font> in a communist prison.<ref name="CD"> Marjanović, Borislav: ''How is the captured General Draža Mihailović'', Beoknjiga, Belgrade, 2006.</ref> Previously, Ranković from was Belgrade reported to ], who was in ] at the <font color = blue>]</font> meeting, <s>],</s> that Mihailović <font color = blue>had been</font> caught.<ref name="CD"/> Then, Josip Broz phoned ] to <s>him this</s> report<s>ed</s> <font color = blue>this</font> important news. The news of the arrest of General Mihailović, <font color = blue>moved quickly, but differing interpretations were received,</font> <s>toured the world with lightning speed and different is received. Of</s> <font color = blue>ranging from great enthusiasm in the</font> communist East <s>with great enthusiasm,</s> <font color = blue>to skepticism and resentment in the democratic re</font>public of the West.<s>, with some skepticism and resentment.</s><ref name="CD"/> Mihailović travelled north with a group of several dozen Chetniks. In the village of Bulozi, near ], on the night of 23 May 1945 Mihailović's son Vojislav was killed. During the next several days, Mihailović traveled toward the Drina River, with a group of 22 Chetniks, divided into several units for easy movement. Mihailović then crossed the river Drina, and remained in the vicinity of ] and ] for some time, before returning to ]. In February 1946, Mihailović fell ill of ] fever. He was captured in a foxhold near Višegrad on 13 March 1946,<ref>Walter R. Roberts, ''Tito, Mihailović and the Allies 1941-1945'', Rutgers University Press, page 307</ref> when his hiding place was revealed by one of his chief lieutenants, Nikola Kalabić, either accidently or exchange for leniency.<ref>Jean-Christophe Buisson, ''Le Général Mihailovic : héros trahi par les Alliés 1893-1946'', Perrin, Paris, 1999, pp 250-251</ref><ref>Walter R. Roberts, ''Tito, Mihailović and the Allies 1941-1945'', Rutgers University Press, page 307</ref> In his keynote address at the National Assembly, the Interior Minister of the Federal People Republic of Yugoslavia, ], announced on 24 March 1946 that Mihailović had been detained in a communist prison.<ref name="CD"> Marjanović, Borislav: ''How is the captured General Draža Mihailović'', Beoknjiga, Belgrade, 2006.</ref> Ranković reported from Belgrade to ], who was in ] at the ] meeting, that Mihailović had been caught.<ref name="CD"/> Broz then phoned ] to report this important news. The news of Mihailović's arrest spread quickly, but there were differing interpretations of its significance, ranging from great enthusiasm in the communist East to skepticism and resentment in the democratic republic of the West.<ref name="CD"/>


===The court process=== ===The court process===
] ]
T<font color="purple">he t</font>rial of General Mihailović was held from 10 June to 15 July 1946.<ref name=lo>Lalić, Veljko :, Evening News, feuilleton: ''Draža in the Legion deserving'', 4 April 2005</ref> <s>With the main-accused</s> Mihailović was tried <font color="purple">with</font> <s>a larger group of people</s> <font color="purple">others in a group, including</font><s>:</s> ], Božidar Purić, Stevan Moljević, Mladen Mujović, Živko Topalović, Milan Gavrilović, ], Živan Knezevic, Radoje Knežević, Konstantin Fotić, Đuro Vilović, Radoslav Radić, Slavoljub Vranješević, Milos Glišić, Petar Živković, Dragomir Jovanović, Tanasije Dinić, Velibor Jonić, Đuro Djokić, Kosta Mušicki, Boško Pavlović, Lazar Marković and Kosta Kumanudi.{{cn}} The trial of General Mihailović was held from 10 June to 15 July 1946.<ref name=lo>Lalić, Veljko :, Evening News, feuilleton: ''Draža in the Legion deserving'', 4 April 2005</ref> Mihailović was tried with others in a group, including ], Božidar Purić, Stevan Moljević, Mladen Mujović, Živko Topalović, Milan Gavrilović, ], Živan Knezevic, Radoje Knežević, Konstantin Fotić, Đuro Vilović, Radoslav Radić, Slavoljub Vranješević, Milos Glišić, Petar Živković, Dragomir Jovanović, Tanasije Dinić, Velibor Jonić, Đuro Djokić, Kosta Mušicki, Boško Pavlović, Lazar Marković and Kosta Kumanudi.{{cn}}


<s>Mihailović's </s><font color="purple">The</font > judges were Mihailo Đorđević (President of the Military Court), Milija Laković, Mihailo Janković, Nikola Stanković and Radomir Ilić.<s> (judges) and </s>Todor Popadić <font color="purple">served as </font> <s>(</s> Secretary <s>)</s>. The prosecutor was ], who was helped by Miloš Jovanović.<ref name=lo/> All <s>of them</s> were members of the Communist Party and <font color="purple">had fought with the</font> partisan<font color="purple">s</font> <s>guerrillas</s> during the war.{{cn}} <s>The chief judge Mihailo Đorđević and prosecutor Miloš Minić, were members of communist parties and the partisan movement during the war, so that t<font color="purple">T</font>he court was not independent and free but <font color="purple">having</font> a political bias as in all communist countries.</s><font color="purple">In his closing argument </font>General Mihailović <s>on the end of the trial was presented his closing argument</s> <font color="purple">said</font>: The judges were Mihailo Đorđević (President of the Military Court), Milija Laković, Mihailo Janković, Nikola Stanković and Radomir Ilić. Todor Popadić served as Secretary. The prosecutor was ], who was helped by Miloš Jovanović.<ref name=lo/> All were members of the Communist Party and had fought with the partisans during the war.{{cn}} In his closing argument Mihailović said:
] ]


{{cquote|I found myself in a whirlwind of events and policy ... Yet I stayed only a soldier. I am convinced that I was on the right track and I called all foreign correspondents, and even a mission of the Red Army to come to my Headquarters. Fate was merciless<s>ly</s> with me, <s>when he was</s> cast me in such a cruel storm, the worst possible that could befall a man. (I strove for much, I undertook much, but the storm (galas) of the world have carried away both me and my work.) I wanted so much, a lot of that I have started, <s>but the world storm they blew me and my work</s> but the gale of the world carried away me and my work.<ref>, Time, 7 October 1957</ref><ref>Lalić, Veljko: , Press Magazine, 21 June 2009</ref> {{cquote|I found myself in a whirlwind of events and policy ... Yet I stayed only a soldier. I am convinced that I was on the right track and I called all foreign correspondents, and even a mission of the Red Army to come to my Headquarters. Fate was merciless with me, cast me in such a cruel storm, the worst possible that could befall a man. (I strove for much, I undertook much, but the storm (galas) of the world have carried away both me and my work). I wanted so much, a lot of that I have started, but the gale of the world carried away me and my work.<ref>, Time, 7 October 1957</ref><ref>Lalić, Veljko: , Press Magazine, 21 June 2009</ref>
}} }}


<font color=purple>The Allied airmen he had rescued in 1944 were not allowed to testify in his favor<ref>Jean-Christophe Buisson, ''Le Général Mihailovic : héros trahi par les Alliés 1893-1946'', Perrin, Paris, 1999, pp 260-262</ref>.</font> The Allied airmen he had rescued in 1944 were not allowed to testify in his favor<ref>Jean-Christophe Buisson, ''Le Général Mihailovic : héros trahi par les Alliés 1893-1946'', Perrin, Paris, 1999, pp 260-262</ref>.</font>


Of the 47 <s>counts</s><font color = blue> charges laid by</font> ] <s>which is read the</s> on 10 June 1946 in Belgrade, Mihailović was convicted on eight counts. The first was: Of the 47 charges laid by ] on 10 June 1946 in Belgrade, Mihailović was convicted on eight counts. The first was:


{{cquote|Is guilty because in that since the beginning of the second half of 1941, and for all time of war and enemy occupation, <s>and to his control of</s> he led the organized armed formations of Chetniks known as "Mihailovic's Chetniks" and the so called Yugoslav Army in the Homeland, <s>which aimed to</s> sought <s>in</s> armed action and terror in cooperation with the occupying forces to support the occupation and suppress an armed uprising and freedom fight of the Serbian and other peoples of Yugoslavia.<ref name=lo/>}} {{cquote|Is guilty because in that since the beginning of the second half of 1941, and for all time of war and enemy occupation, he led the organized armed formations of Chetniks known as "Mihailovic's Chetniks" and the so called Yugoslav Army in the Homeland, sought armed action and terror in cooperation with the occupying forces to support the occupation and suppress an armed uprising and freedom fight of the Serbian and other peoples of Yugoslavia.<ref name=lo/>}}


On 15 July 1946, <s>General</s> Mihailović was sentenced to death, permanent loss of political and civil rights and confiscation of all assets. <font color = purple>His son and daughter had denounce Mihailović as a traitor and joined the Partisans earlier during the war, and his wife was the only member of his immediate family to visit him during his confinement prior to execuation. <ref>Walter R. Roberts, ''Tito, Mihailović and the Allies 1941-1945'', Rutgers University Press, page 307</ref> Roberts asserts that the trial was "anything but a model of justice" and that "it is clear that Mihailović was not guilty of all, or even many, of the charges brought against him" although he notes that Tito would likely not have had a fair trial had positions been reversed. Mihailović was convicted of ] and ], and executed of July 17th, 1946<ref>Walter R. Roberts, ''Tito, Mihailović and the Allies 1941-1945'', Rutgers University Press, page 307</ref> along with nine other officers in Lisičiji Potok, about 200 meters from the former Royal Palace. His body was reportedly covered with ] and the location of his unmarked grave was kept secret<ref>Jean-Christophe Buisson, ''Le Général Mihailovic : héros trahi par les Alliés 1893-1946'', Perrin, Paris, 1999, page 272</ref>. On 15 July 1946, Mihailović was sentenced to death, permanent loss of political and civil rights and confiscation of all assets. His son and daughter had denounced Mihailović as a traitor and joined the Partisans earlier during the war, and his wife was the only member of his immediate family to visit him during his confinement prior to execution.<ref>Walter R. Roberts, ''Tito, Mihailović and the Allies 1941-1945'', Rutgers University Press, page 307</ref> Roberts asserts that the trial was "anything but a model of justice" and that "it is clear that Mihailović was not guilty of all, or even many, of the charges brought against him" although he notes that Tito would likely not have had a fair trial had positions been reversed. Mihailović was convicted of ] and ], and executed of July 17th, 1946<ref>Walter R. Roberts, ''Tito, Mihailović and the Allies 1941-1945'', Rutgers University Press, page 307</ref> along with nine other officers in Lisičiji Potok, about 200 meters from the former Royal Palace. His body was reportedly covered with ] and the location of his unmarked grave was kept secret<ref>Jean-Christophe Buisson, ''Le Général Mihailovic : héros trahi par les Alliés 1893-1946'', Perrin, Paris, 1999, page 272</ref>. Execution was carried out two days later, on 17 July 1946, at an unknown place. To this date, the location of the grave is unknown.

<s>The <s>verdict</s><font color = blue> execution was carried out</font> <s>after only two days. Liquidated was</s> on 17 July 1946 at an unknown place. <s>Even now nobody knows where</s><font color = blue> To this date, the location of the</font> grave <s>of General Mihailović</s> is unknown.</s>


===References=== ===References===
{{reflist}} {{reflist}}
===Discussion===
This section obviously completes the sections on World War II and precedes the "Legacy" section. I will leave it here for a couple of days for a last look and then it should be combined in the "Combined draft" (see "Subpages." above). One possibility for a next step would be to add the combined draft to JJG's draft and then edit the whole shebang. If we get some energy working on this, we could have a re-vamped article up fairly soon. 00:07, 10 May 2011 (UTC)


⚫ ==Moving toward closure==
⚫ Not everything works as one might wish, but this mediation has actually made a great deal of progress, ''in my opinion''. There is some more work to be done to bring this phase to a close. Following that we will resume work on the article page and discussions on the article talk page. I would like to hear from participants who have constructive suggestions about what we need to do to get closure on the mediation talk page. Participants are requested to sign the , if they haven't already, in order to take part in the further discussions. ] (]) 16:44, 4 May 2011 (UTC)


:'''Note''': I've archived recent posts by DIREKTOR (Archive 21). I've done that for two reasons:
===Comments===
:# He has been topic banned and has chosen not to participate in the mediation for now.
Comment on the above go here. <span style="text-shadow:#DDDDDD 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em; class=texthtml">--] (])</span> 13:50, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
:# I want participants to have a clean slate to decide how they want to wrap this up. To do that we have to stay on topic, i.e., focussing on the "issues to be mediated" and ''constructive'' comments about getting closure on the mediation.
:I can reconstruct his movements in detail, but I think this is enough.--] (]) 20:41, 5 December 2010 (UTC)
::Since English is not my first languege, perhaps someone else could just put the text in a more correct grammar construction first, to have a corrected grammar version, before doing any changes. ] (]) 19:51, 7 December 2010 (UTC) :My response to DIREKTOR can be found on his talk page. ] (]) 19:46, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
:::I agree with your proposal--] (]) 14:25, 8 December 2010 (UTC)


::My take is that we have a reasonable ] for discussion, perhaps we could talk about one section at a time? The other thing I think we'll need to do is rely more on outside groups such as RSN and NOR noticeboards to get opinions regarding appropriate weights and sources. <span style="text-shadow: 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em #DDDDDD">--] (])</span> 23:14, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
====Mihailović's grave====
:::Personally, I lost interest long ago in this mediation. IMHO, it should already have been closed down. As for the topic, I think the edited draft should be now used to rewrite the article. I should have done this many months ago (since last september actually). This may now be the time to do some serious work on the topic again, so we can hope to have a decent article on the subject (almost everything about Yugoslavia should be checked and rewritten, IMHO and as far as I could tell). ] (]) 14:08, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
No one yet knows where Mihailović grave! Therefore was the state commission was established in Serbia a few years ago, to reveal where he killed and buried General Mihailovic. The place where he was buried at the time declared a state secret and the whole work it done of secret police of the ]. His children were not voluntarily joined the partisans, but are abused by partisans when the Red Army have arrived in Belgrade in October 1944. They were used for the purpose of propaganda to inflict damage to their father. As I stated earlier, the statement and conclusions of an author are very bad for the article. Therefore, the trial section shall be included only basic information, because the only way we can get a neutral section.--] (]) 23:28, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
Свифт, all I can say is that it is our obligation to follow what reliable sources say. This is a historical subject, and there are a number of very high quality academic articles and book upon which we can rely. <span style="text-shadow: 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em #DDDDDD">--] (])</span> 23:46, 2 February 2011 (UTC)
:If you know where is the grave you can get 100,000 U.S. dollars! This is no joke .


::::I think that these are both valid points of view. Nuujinn states that we have the draft sections as a starting point and suggests that we could talk about one section at a time. Jean-Jacques states that he lost interest some time ago, but agrees that it may now be time to do some serious work on the topic. The common interest that they share is producing a better article. Let's see if others care to add comments and then we can agree on the best course of action. ] (]) 18:38, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
'''One Hundred Thousand Dollar Reward'''


:::::I have been putting sources "on papper" as promised, they are . It will take me a few days, and there are still some books I would like to see if I can find an internet open edition. I am not planning to add all I have been writing there, but rather as general ideas, including obviously the fact that they can be usefull for sourcing. I am very happy JJG and Nuujinn are present, and I welcome any methodology of work they suggest as suitable for them. ] (]) 19:16, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
''The Central Board of the Serbian National Defense Council of America held its meeting March 21, 2009 in Chicago. A unanimous decision was passed to offer a reward of 100,000 to a person or persons that fi nd the remains of the first guerilla fighter during World War II, General Dragoljub Draza Mihailovic.''
::::::Thanks for compiling those sources and citations. They should be useful for finalizing the article. ] (]) 06:04, 9 May 2011 (UTC)


I don't see much energy to do further work on the combined draft. So, I think we should use what we have: JJG's original draft and the combined draft (as far as it goes). Can we meld the two together, using the combined draft for the sections it covers and JJG's original draft as the default for those sections the combined draft does not cover? ] (]) 14:51, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
'''The reward will be paid upon the results of DNA testing of registered medical experts.'''


:I think that approach makes sense, as it uses what progress we have made. My time has been short here of late, but it looks like a rainy weekend coming up, so I can devote some cycles the next couple of days. If folks like, I can go a gross cut and paste and we can from there. <span style="text-shadow: 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em #DDDDDD">--] (])</span> 21:31, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
:Refrence are not a problem for me. In this section can only be basic information. So I can write that the trial was not fair. That General Mihailovic was tortured in prison etc.--] (]) 00:06, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
::No problem, I think that's what makes more sense. That's also what I personnally planned to do, although my time has been short too. I might work on it next week. I may add that, IMHO, the general atmosphere on this mediation has probably disgusted many users from contributing (at least, that was my case) and caused us to waste many months. ] (]) 09:10, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
:This is a map of the grave and treasures . This is a possible location, but no one yet knows --] (]) 00:22, 3 February 2011 (UTC)
::None of those three links are reliable sources. Unfair trials are not at all uncommon. For assertions of that or of torture, you'll need to present reliable sources. <span style="text-shadow: 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em #DDDDDD">--] (])</span> 00:40, 3 February 2011 (UTC) :::OK, no disagreement on that. We are all busy, so, time permitting, all that remains is to pull the two draft drafts together. Then we can poll the other participants for a "last look" and move it over. ] (]) 21:40, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
::::I started last night by moving parts of JJG's draft into the working draft we did here. It's a crude merge, I'll be able to put some time in tonight to clean up the references. For clarity's sake, I am not editing content for anything but style, since I know we'll have content issues to discuss. I would also suggest that we all take a deep cleansing breath and forget the past and try to start anew.... <span style="text-shadow: 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em #DDDDDD">--] (])</span> 22:07, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::Will you put it all in one page? ] (]) 22:38, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
⚫ ::::::I believe I have. <span style="text-shadow: 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em #DDDDDD">--] (])</span> 10:30, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
⚫ :::::::Yes, great. Thanks. ] (]) 16:55, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
:::::Nuujinn: I like your suggestion to "take a deep cleansing breath... and start anew." I will help out as best I can. ] (]) 18:54, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
{{outdent}}
Ok, I think the best tack to take at this point is to move the draft we have in to replace the current article, and I think it's the better version of the two. I am not happy with the quality of either, but we need to move forward. If no one objects, I'll proceed in a couple of days. <span style="text-shadow: 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em #DDDDDD">--] (])</span> 11:05, 3 June 2011 (UTC)
:Thanks, I noted that you did some further work on the combined draft. Is there anything more from JJG's original draft that should be added? Let's assemble the combined draft here for a final look and then move it into the article. I would like to poll participants one last time. Then we should add a note on the article talk page explaining that the new draft is the result of the mediation. Does that make sense? ] (]) 06:09, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
⚫ ::. ] (]) 03:29, 7 June 2011 (UTC)


== Restoration of case pages ==
:::These are not references but I am so drew attention to did not knows for the location of the grave. These books are my references . It is the largest study of General Mihailović.--] (]) 19:18, 3 February 2011 (UTC)


In relation to a recent enquiry on my talk page, this message is to inform the participants in this mediation case that the histories of the case pages, which are currently hidden to preserve the privileged nature of mediation, will be undeleted tomorrow - absent further developments. The undeletion is pending the conclusion of private deliberations by the Mediation Committee on matters concerning this dispute. Thank you for your continued patience. For the Mediation Committee, ]<small> <nowiki>]<nowiki>]</nowiki></small> 23:32, 12 June 2011 (UTC)
== Renewed work? ==


: Now restored. For the Mediation Committee, ]<small> <nowiki>]<nowiki>]</nowiki></small> 11:33, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
I've just archived the bulk of the talk page, pretty much everything was a month or more old, and there's not been much activity recently. I have also made another pass at the section above, adding some material from JJG's draft, and removing some material that seemed excessively non-neutral. I also tried to gently clean up the language of the quotations, but could not indicate the specific changes with font colors since the quote template doesn't like those tags. I am a little uncertain about that last, not having access to the originals, so please check those closely. If there are no additional changes in the above section in the next few days, I'll assume it's good and move it into the completed draft subpage. Anyone care to suggest the next section to work on? <span style="text-shadow: 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em #DDDDDD">--] (])</span> 21:30, 29 January 2011 (UTC)
{{Closed case/bottom}}

:Some good work has been done in this mediation, but progress is thought by many (myself included) to be too slow. Here's my take on where we are at:
:#Participants have attempted to focus on the draft a couple of times but those efforts were not sustained. The draft we have is about half the size of the current article. That may mean we have a ways to go yet. I would like some assurance that participants are able to finish this off.
:#There is still a need to solve some of the basic issues at the core of this mediation. There have been some instances of participants not following behavioral policies. My view is that this needs to be addressed. By that, I mean that it is o.k. to disagree on content, but there has to be an atmosphere of civility in order to collaborate. Would some guidelines for interaction be useful?
⚫ :Comments? ] (]) 04:53, 1 February 2011 (UTC)

Sunray, I'm still willing to keep working on it. I do think that some guidelines for interaction would be useful. We seem to be having the same kinds of discussions repeatedly, but I'm not sure how we can break out of the cycle. One option I am considering is taking some issues to the RSN and NPOVN boards in order to get some outside assistance on particular issues. Do you think that would be appropriate? <span style="text-shadow: 0.2em 0.2em 0.1em #DDDDDD">--] (])</span> 6:46 pm, Yesterday (UTC−5)

:I would suggest that we go through the rest of JJG's draft with as many participants who wish to work on it. As you are fairly familiar with the text, would you (Nuujinn) be able to identify the sections that still need work? I will also ask some participants to work on some of the other issues, perhaps using the "Legacy" section as an case in point. I've re-posted the Groundrules several particpants agreed to in December. It will be important to follow these in further discussions. ] (]) 21:06, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

:With respect to the RSN and NPOVN noticeboards: This could be helpful. I suggest that you make proposals of issues to get input on here first. ] (]) 21:08, 3 February 2011 (UTC)

⚫ ==Moving toward closure==
⚫ Not everything works as one might wish, but this mediation has actually made a great deal of progress, ''in my opinion''. There is some more work to be done to bring this phase to a close. Following that we will resume work on the article page and discussions on the talk page. I would like to hear from participants who have constructive suggestions about what we need to do to get closure on the mediation talk page. Participants are requested to sign the groundrules, if they haven't already, in order to take part in the further discussions. ] (]) 16:44, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 12:35, 11 April 2022

Mediation of this dispute has been completed. The case pages should not be edited.
Resolved:

For an explanation of why the case was closed, refer to the talk page or contact the Mediation Committee

This mediation case is closed. Please do not modify it. No further edits should be made to this case page.
Archiving icon
Archives
  1. Archive 1 - Pre-mediation discussion
  2. Archive 2 - Opening statements
  3. Archive 3 - Participation
  4. Archive 4 - Early drafts
  5. Archive 5 - Discussion on collaboration
  6. Archive 6 - Sources related to Mihailovic and charges of collaboration
  7. Archive 7 - Sources 2
  8. Archive 8 - Template:Yugoslav Axis collaborationism
  9. Archive 9 - General comments on JJG's draft
  10. Archive 10 - Work on Legacy section
  11. Archive 11 - Revised Legacy section
  12. Archive 12 - Early life and military career
  13. Archive 13 - WWII-Part 1
  14. Archive 14 - WWII-Part 2
  15. Archive 15 - Final Discussion of the Legacy Section
  16. Archive 16 -Activities in Montenegro and Serbia
  17. Archive 17 - WWII (draft from Свифт)
  18. Archive 18
  19. Archive 19
  20. Archive 20
  21. Archive 21 - Discussions, April 2011
  22. Archive 22 - Final days of war, capture & execution

Subpages

  1. JJG's Draft 2010-06-10
  2. Combined sections, 1st draft

Groundrules

The following groundrules have worked in other mediations to ensure that participants have a basis for collaboration. Note that you do not have to like each other, or even always see things the same way. The basis for the groundrules is respectful listening and problem-solving. We can customize these rules if we need to. But I suggest we try them. Sunray (talk) 21:02, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

  • Focus on content rather than the contributor. Note: This is to be interpreted literally, as worded.
  • Be guided by WP content policies, particularly WP:V and WP:NPOV
  • Commit to being as economical as possible in posts to this discussion page.
  • Work towards consensus in editorial decisions.
I agree to follow these groundrules

Participants are requested to sign below with ~~~~

  1. Agree.--Свифт (talk) 22:06, 1 December 2010 (UTC)
  2. Agree, --Nuujinn (talk) 01:46, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
  3. Agree. BoDu (talk) 17:13, 2 December 2010 (UTC)
  4. Agree, FkpCascais (talk) 01:46, 5 December 2010 (UTC)

Final draft of end of war, trial and execution

I've removed the editing marks of the section on "last days." It is posted here for final review before combining with other sections. Any final comments, or suggested changes? Discussion section is below. Next we can either look at the whole combined draft (along with sections of JJG's draft not yet included), or pick another section to finalize. Sunray (talk) 20:20, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

File:Captured the General Mihailovic.jpg
Captured the General Mihailović on 13 March 1946.

Continued fighting and capture

Mihailović travelled north with a group of several dozen Chetniks. In the village of Bulozi, near Goražde, on the night of 23 May 1945 Mihailović's son Vojislav was killed. During the next several days, Mihailović traveled toward the Drina River, with a group of 22 Chetniks, divided into several units for easy movement. Mihailović then crossed the river Drina, and remained in the vicinity of Krupanj and Bajina Bašta for some time, before returning to Višegrad. In February 1946, Mihailović fell ill of typhus fever. He was captured in a foxhold near Višegrad on 13 March 1946, when his hiding place was revealed by one of his chief lieutenants, Nikola Kalabić, either accidently or exchange for leniency. In his keynote address at the National Assembly, the Interior Minister of the Federal People Republic of Yugoslavia, Aleksandar Ranković, announced on 24 March 1946 that Mihailović had been detained in a communist prison. Ranković reported from Belgrade to Josip Broz, who was in Warsaw at the Cominform meeting, that Mihailović had been caught. Broz then phoned Joseph Stalin to report this important news. The news of Mihailović's arrest spread quickly, but there were differing interpretations of its significance, ranging from great enthusiasm in the communist East to skepticism and resentment in the democratic republic of the West.

The court process

File:Mihailović in court.jpg
Mihailović in court.

The trial of General Mihailović was held from 10 June to 15 July 1946. Mihailović was tried with others in a group, including Slobodan Jovanović, Božidar Purić, Stevan Moljević, Mladen Mujović, Živko Topalović, Milan Gavrilović, Momčilo Ninčić, Živan Knezevic, Radoje Knežević, Konstantin Fotić, Đuro Vilović, Radoslav Radić, Slavoljub Vranješević, Milos Glišić, Petar Živković, Dragomir Jovanović, Tanasije Dinić, Velibor Jonić, Đuro Djokić, Kosta Mušicki, Boško Pavlović, Lazar Marković and Kosta Kumanudi.

The judges were Mihailo Đorđević (President of the Military Court), Milija Laković, Mihailo Janković, Nikola Stanković and Radomir Ilić. Todor Popadić served as Secretary. The prosecutor was Miloš Minić, who was helped by Miloš Jovanović. All were members of the Communist Party and had fought with the partisans during the war. In his closing argument Mihailović said:

File:Dead body of General Mihailovic .jpg
Dead body of General Mihailović 17 July 1946.


“ I found myself in a whirlwind of events and policy ... Yet I stayed only a soldier. I am convinced that I was on the right track and I called all foreign correspondents, and even a mission of the Red Army to come to my Headquarters. Fate was merciless with me, cast me in such a cruel storm, the worst possible that could befall a man. (I strove for much, I undertook much, but the storm (galas) of the world have carried away both me and my work). I wanted so much, a lot of that I have started, but the gale of the world carried away me and my work. ”

The Allied airmen he had rescued in 1944 were not allowed to testify in his favor.

Of the 47 charges laid by Miloš Minić on 10 June 1946 in Belgrade, Mihailović was convicted on eight counts. The first was:


“ Is guilty because in that since the beginning of the second half of 1941, and for all time of war and enemy occupation, he led the organized armed formations of Chetniks known as "Mihailovic's Chetniks" and the so called Yugoslav Army in the Homeland, sought armed action and terror in cooperation with the occupying forces to support the occupation and suppress an armed uprising and freedom fight of the Serbian and other peoples of Yugoslavia. ”

On 15 July 1946, Mihailović was sentenced to death, permanent loss of political and civil rights and confiscation of all assets. His son and daughter had denounced Mihailović as a traitor and joined the Partisans earlier during the war, and his wife was the only member of his immediate family to visit him during his confinement prior to execution. Roberts asserts that the trial was "anything but a model of justice" and that "it is clear that Mihailović was not guilty of all, or even many, of the charges brought against him" although he notes that Tito would likely not have had a fair trial had positions been reversed. Mihailović was convicted of high treason and war crimes, and executed of July 17th, 1946 along with nine other officers in Lisičiji Potok, about 200 meters from the former Royal Palace. His body was reportedly covered with lime and the location of his unmarked grave was kept secret. Execution was carried out two days later, on 17 July 1946, at an unknown place. To this date, the location of the grave is unknown.

References

  1. Walter R. Roberts, Tito, Mihailović and the Allies 1941-1945, Rutgers University Press, page 307
  2. Jean-Christophe Buisson, Le Général Mihailovic : héros trahi par les Alliés 1893-1946, Perrin, Paris, 1999, pp 250-251
  3. Walter R. Roberts, Tito, Mihailović and the Allies 1941-1945, Rutgers University Press, page 307
  4. ^ Marjanović, Borislav: How is the captured General Draža Mihailović, Beoknjiga, Belgrade, 2006.
  5. ^ Lalić, Veljko :The irony of the new government, Evening News, feuilleton: Draža in the Legion deserving, 4 April 2005
  6. One Who Survived, Time, 7 October 1957
  7. Lalić, Veljko: Exclusive: Draža Mihailović on the terrible court, Press Magazine, 21 June 2009
  8. Jean-Christophe Buisson, Le Général Mihailovic : héros trahi par les Alliés 1893-1946, Perrin, Paris, 1999, pp 260-262
  9. Walter R. Roberts, Tito, Mihailović and the Allies 1941-1945, Rutgers University Press, page 307
  10. Walter R. Roberts, Tito, Mihailović and the Allies 1941-1945, Rutgers University Press, page 307
  11. Jean-Christophe Buisson, Le Général Mihailovic : héros trahi par les Alliés 1893-1946, Perrin, Paris, 1999, page 272

Discussion

This section obviously completes the sections on World War II and precedes the "Legacy" section. I will leave it here for a couple of days for a last look and then it should be combined in the "Combined draft" (see "Subpages." above). One possibility for a next step would be to add the combined draft to JJG's draft and then edit the whole shebang. If we get some energy working on this, we could have a re-vamped article up fairly soon. 00:07, 10 May 2011 (UTC)

Moving toward closure

Not everything works as one might wish, but this mediation has actually made a great deal of progress, in my opinion. There is some more work to be done to bring this phase to a close. Following that we will resume work on the article page and discussions on the article talk page. I would like to hear from participants who have constructive suggestions about what we need to do to get closure on the mediation talk page. Participants are requested to sign the groundrules, if they haven't already, in order to take part in the further discussions. Sunray (talk) 16:44, 4 May 2011 (UTC)

Note: I've archived recent posts by DIREKTOR (Archive 21). I've done that for two reasons:
  1. He has been topic banned and has chosen not to participate in the mediation for now.
  2. I want participants to have a clean slate to decide how they want to wrap this up. To do that we have to stay on topic, i.e., focussing on the "issues to be mediated" and constructive comments about getting closure on the mediation.
My response to DIREKTOR can be found on his talk page. Sunray (talk) 19:46, 4 May 2011 (UTC)
My take is that we have a reasonable starting point for discussion, perhaps we could talk about one section at a time? The other thing I think we'll need to do is rely more on outside groups such as RSN and NOR noticeboards to get opinions regarding appropriate weights and sources. --Nuujinn (talk) 23:14, 6 May 2011 (UTC)
Personally, I lost interest long ago in this mediation. IMHO, it should already have been closed down. As for the topic, I think the edited draft should be now used to rewrite the article. I should have done this many months ago (since last september actually). This may now be the time to do some serious work on the topic again, so we can hope to have a decent article on the subject (almost everything about Yugoslavia should be checked and rewritten, IMHO and as far as I could tell). Jean-Jacques Georges (talk) 14:08, 7 May 2011 (UTC)
I think that these are both valid points of view. Nuujinn states that we have the draft sections as a starting point and suggests that we could talk about one section at a time. Jean-Jacques states that he lost interest some time ago, but agrees that it may now be time to do some serious work on the topic. The common interest that they share is producing a better article. Let's see if others care to add comments and then we can agree on the best course of action. Sunray (talk) 18:38, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
I have been putting sources "on papper" as promised, they are here. It will take me a few days, and there are still some books I would like to see if I can find an internet open edition. I am not planning to add all I have been writing there, but rather as general ideas, including obviously the fact that they can be usefull for sourcing. I am very happy JJG and Nuujinn are present, and I welcome any methodology of work they suggest as suitable for them. FkpCascais (talk) 19:16, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
Thanks for compiling those sources and citations. They should be useful for finalizing the article. Sunray (talk) 06:04, 9 May 2011 (UTC)

I don't see much energy to do further work on the combined draft. So, I think we should use what we have: JJG's original draft and the combined draft (as far as it goes). Can we meld the two together, using the combined draft for the sections it covers and JJG's original draft as the default for those sections the combined draft does not cover? Sunray (talk) 14:51, 13 May 2011 (UTC)

I think that approach makes sense, as it uses what progress we have made. My time has been short here of late, but it looks like a rainy weekend coming up, so I can devote some cycles the next couple of days. If folks like, I can go a gross cut and paste and we can from there. --Nuujinn (talk) 21:31, 13 May 2011 (UTC)
No problem, I think that's what makes more sense. That's also what I personnally planned to do, although my time has been short too. I might work on it next week. I may add that, IMHO, the general atmosphere on this mediation has probably disgusted many users from contributing (at least, that was my case) and caused us to waste many months. Jean-Jacques Georges (talk) 09:10, 14 May 2011 (UTC)
OK, no disagreement on that. We are all busy, so, time permitting, all that remains is to pull the two draft drafts together. Then we can poll the other participants for a "last look" and move it over. Sunray (talk) 21:40, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
I started last night by moving parts of JJG's draft into the working draft we did here. It's a crude merge, I'll be able to put some time in tonight to clean up the references. For clarity's sake, I am not editing content for anything but style, since I know we'll have content issues to discuss. I would also suggest that we all take a deep cleansing breath and forget the past and try to start anew.... --Nuujinn (talk) 22:07, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
Will you put it all in one page? FkpCascais (talk) 22:38, 17 May 2011 (UTC)
I believe I have. --Nuujinn (talk) 10:30, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
Yes, great. Thanks. FkpCascais (talk) 16:55, 18 May 2011 (UTC)
Nuujinn: I like your suggestion to "take a deep cleansing breath... and start anew." I will help out as best I can. Sunray (talk) 18:54, 18 May 2011 (UTC)

Ok, I think the best tack to take at this point is to move the draft we have in to replace the current article, and I think it's the better version of the two. I am not happy with the quality of either, but we need to move forward. If no one objects, I'll proceed in a couple of days. --Nuujinn (talk) 11:05, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Thanks, I noted that you did some further work on the combined draft. Is there anything more from JJG's original draft that should be added? Let's assemble the combined draft here for a final look and then move it into the article. I would like to poll participants one last time. Then we should add a note on the article talk page explaining that the new draft is the result of the mediation. Does that make sense? Sunray (talk) 06:09, 5 June 2011 (UTC)
. Sunray (talk) 03:29, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Restoration of case pages

In relation to a recent enquiry on my talk page, this message is to inform the participants in this mediation case that the histories of the case pages, which are currently hidden to preserve the privileged nature of mediation, will be undeleted tomorrow - absent further developments. The undeletion is pending the conclusion of private deliberations by the Mediation Committee on matters concerning this dispute. Thank you for your continued patience. For the Mediation Committee, AGK 23:32, 12 June 2011 (UTC)

Now restored. For the Mediation Committee, AGK 11:33, 14 June 2011 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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