Misplaced Pages

Talk:Bashar al-Assad: Difference between revisions

Article snapshot taken from[REDACTED] with creative commons attribution-sharealike license. Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat. We can research this topic together.
Browse history interactively← Previous editContent deleted Content addedVisualWikitext
Revision as of 12:02, 19 May 2011 editBiosketch (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users5,900 edits →Attitudes toward Judaism: Interview in Der Spiegel.← Previous edit Latest revision as of 00:15, 24 January 2025 edit undoClueBot III (talk | contribs)Bots1,386,012 editsm Archiving 4 discussions to Talk:Bashar al-Assad/Archive 3. (BOT) 
(820 intermediate revisions by more than 100 users not shown)
Line 1: Line 1:
{{Talk header}}
{{WPBiography
{{Controversial}}
|living=yes
{{Gs/talk notice|scwisil}}
|class=B
{{Top 25 Report|Aug 25 2013|Sep 1 2013|Apr 2 2017|Dec 8 2024}}
|politician-work-group=yes
{{Press
|listas=Assad, Bashar Al-
| subject = article
| author = Sina Zekavat
| title = Persian Misplaced Pages: an independent source or a tool of the Iranian state?
| org = ]
| url = https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/north-africa-west-asia/persian-wikipedia-independent-source-or-tool-iranian-state/
| date = 11 September 2019
| accessdate = 12 September 2019
| quote = Next, I decided to check the Misplaced Pages page of Bashar al-Assad. The English version comprehensively outlines the economic and social policies of the Assad dynasty which eventually led to the 2011 revolution.
}}
{{WikiProject banner shell|blp=activepol|class=B|vital=yes|listas=Assad, Bashar Al-|1=
{{WikiProject Biography|politician-work-group=yes|politician-priority=mid}}
{{WikiProject Syria|importance=Top}}
{{WikiProject Arab world|importance=High}}
{{WikiProject Socialism|importance=Mid}}
{{WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography|importance=Low|terrorism=yes|terrorism-imp=Mid}}
{{WikiProject Politics|importance=High}}
}}
{{Annual readership|days=90}}
{{User:ClueBot III/ArchiveThis|age=720|archiveprefix=Talk:Bashar al-Assad/Archive|numberstart=2|maxarchsize=120000|header={{Automatic archive navigator}}|minkeepthreads=8|minarchthreads=1|format= %%i}}
{{Archive basics
|archive = Talk:Bashar al-Assad/Archive %(counter)d
|counter = 2
|headerlevel = 2
|maxarchivesize = 120K
|archiveheader = {{Aan}}
}}<!-- 09:27 August 11, 2018 (UTC), Sam Sailor added ] -->
{{Broken anchors|links=
* <nowiki>]</nowiki>
}} }}
{{Talk header}}
{{WP Syria|class=B |importance=High}}
{{WPARAB}}

==Call of Duty==
He appears in Call of Duty 4 Modern Warfare, I believe this should be mentioned in the article <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 23:04, 23 April 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
==Article locked?==
Who locked this article and why? It seems suspiciously like the start of an attempt at polarised propaganda. I'd like to know who specifically locked this article and why? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 13:38, 24 March 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->


==What does this mean?==

<blockquote>
During the campaign which went under the title of tactics, he was given the title of Guardian Hunter by his supporters.
</blockquote>

* No idea, I will remove it right now, if anyone wants to put it back in, please discuss here. ] 08:28, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

==Exposure to West==
I don't see a source for this. Moreover I see absolutely no relevance for this. Does "exposure" to the West mean something other than trivial information? Is it meant to meant that the extent of his exposure is an indicator of how "civilized" he is? I wonder how many people Asad has killed in the Middle East in comparison to say... ummmm... say the UK... no no wait... the US!! The west imposed sanctions in Iraq that killed more than 500,000 Iraqis which is why Densi Halliday and his successor both resigned from the UN in disgust and horror at their mandate of imposing the sanctions in Iraq which Halliday said was tantamount to "genocide." That's western imposed. Then there is the Iraq war and the fact that more Iraqi's have died as a result of the occupation that under Saddam's entire 23 years (I don't include the Iran-Iraq war and the gassing of Iranians because the West was actively encouraging hi<small>
== Small Text ==
== Headline text ==

</small>m and supplying him with weapons). Now let's look at Asad.. errrr... who?! Oh you mean that paragon of virtue, and fountain of civilization and humanity, yes I remember him. ] 5:21, 2 October 2007 (GMT)

== Is it just me...

...or does he look ALOT like Steven Carell from 40 year old virgin in the first pic? <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 20:04, 20 June 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== He isn't so pure==
No word about the fact that he gives a refuge for ] organizations like ] and so on.] 12:50, 14 July 2005 (UTC)
: Not to mention that he's the current head of a rather vicious, brutal totalitarian regime? <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 07:51, 20 September 2005 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
:: I am a critic of Bashar; and I think it might be appropriate for questioning of his mental abilities, as rumors continue to circulate. However, without figures and actual sources for "Why he is brutal"-I'm not sure it is completely appropriate. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 07:17, 3 October 2005 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

Why anyone feels the need to question his mental abilities is perhaps more a reflection of their own questionable mental status. The man is an eloquent, incredibly smart, educated person. He has made massive efforts to try and gain western favor, and tried to peacefully negotiate the return of the Golan Heights which is Syrian land occupied for nearly 40 years by Israel. ] 5:10, 2 October 2007 (GMT)

:I didn't say he wasn't eloquent or bad at medicine (and thus uneducated). I was more questioning his sanity. But that said, please leave the ] off wikipedia. We don't need it.] (]) 06:30, 23 August 2008 (UTC)
::You'd have to be extremely sane and clever to play with the West like he does right now, in spite of all the trouble they've tried to get him into. ] (]) 06:40, 23 August 2008 (UTC)

== Further reading vs. references ==

We're supposed to ], but we haven't so far in this article. Since we have quite a nice further reading section, if any of the books there were used as sources (or can corroborate the material of this article), can we confirm this and add them to a references section? ] | ] 14:50, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

born in syria and an alawite, i know that history has been very cruel to our small sect. we are surrounded by a majority who had oppressed us and made us work as an almost endentured servitude for many years. we want what anyone wants, respect and to live in peace. we don't push our religion on anyone and we accept all as sons and daughters of god. please don't push syria into a choas of death and destruction as in iraq. let us talk, and then let live...together.

== Bashar al-Assad: The Don Corleone of Arab Despots==
The UN Security Council met in New York to consider the report by German prosecutor Detlev Mehlis who has assembled compelling evidence pointing to the complicity of key figures in the Assad regime in the February 2005, Valentine's Day in Beirut. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 03:49, 25 October 2005 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

== Middle school gym class ==
Perhaps some mention should be made of Assad's striking resemblance to the one tall dorky kid in every school all the kids aimed for in dodge ball. ] 14:50, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

* Perhaps not. ] 08:33, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

== Pointless allegations of Syrian involvement in the Harboring of Militants... ==

If only one would face the truth of the matter, then I am sure that someone ought to know that the Baath party is strictly secular, moderate, and thus has almost no connection with the militants they are constantly accused of providing sanctuary for. They are a corrupt pack of wolves, I am sure of this, yet they are not radical. This in itself kills any arguement implicating them in the fruitless witchhunts for these "Terrorist cells" in a country which has reciev'd the mighty blow of American aid before, and wishes not to endure such again. Any fool with half a mind and a good amount of knowledge of the Al Assad dynasty should at least be able to comprehend their strict non-involvement with the political vacuum that is now Iraq (A comment directed strictly at the political situation there.) and therefore, by relation any and all Islamic "cells" and Nationalist movements save their own.

Please, come to thy senses, and prevent any such accusation from tainting this article.

Yes, I am quite against the Al Assad Regime. No need to invade it, it will die of old age shortly enough, just as the Ottomans before them did.

Seurat. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 23:04, 14 July 2006 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

== Heir apparent ==

So if al-Assad were to die today, who is the heir apparent? <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 01:29, 16 July 2006 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

:Thats why he should have introduced cloning to syria instead of internet] 08:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)Dolly the lamb

== Title ==

Given that he went to medical school, shouldn't he be named in the opening paragraph as 'Dr. Basar al-Assad', as is customary in other biographical articles? ] 09:07, 16 July 2006 (UTC)

* This question sounds legitimate to me. He didn't just GO to med school, I believe in 6 years' time he must've practiced his specialty. Character assessment should not interfere in objective equal treatment. Misplaced Pages is NEUTRAL. ] (]) 23:24, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

==Major Clean-up Necessary==

You have the most ruthless regime this side of the clerical dictatorship ruling the IRI-in power for over three and a half decades-with an extensive record of human rights abuses, illegal detentions, suppression of political dissent, and a massacre-Hama-which eclipsed Black September in scale, in addition to its harboring of fugitive Nazis, the leaders of nearly every major Islamic and proto-Marxist terrorist group in the Mid-east, potential chem-bio WMD programs, as well as assorted nefarious activity occuring in the Bekaa Valley, and yet there is no mention of any of these atrocities and crimes in the text of this article, which is hagiographic in tone. - ] 13:17, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

:How about cleaning the personal attacks from this talk page as well? --] 16:07, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

:: What Astronaut said. ] 08:42, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

:::"THE most ruthless regime"? According to whose classification of ruthlessness among regimes, effendim? Be they democratic or not, BTW : Adolf Hitler was initially brought to power by demagogy-filled, but unbiased and free national elections, we should never forget that. Democracy is no miracle protection against abuses either.

:::Back to topic, "the people demand to know your sources", sir. What ever made al-Assad such a uniquely horrible oppressor, compared to every single other arab world ruler? By all means, do quench our curiosity. It might bring some of us to concur with you then...

:::P.S.: Riddle me this, Batman: why was fellow-ruthless Ben Ali given sanctuary in '''Saudi Arabia''', complete with his ton-and-a-half of looted national money? Was he too mellow for Assad's dark overlord standards?

:::I say, until further objective elements are presented, the international alignment of a dictator doesn't make them any worse (or better) than the countless others on this Allah-forsaken mudball. Here's looking at you, ]. ] (]) 23:40, 11 February 2011 (UTC)


:"Assad was criticized for Syria's presence in Lebanon which ended in 2005, and the US put Syria under sanctions partly because of this. He threatened many members of the Lebanese parliament in order to enforce the illegal accession of the pro-Syrian General Émile Lahoud to the Lebanese presidency in 1998."
::: A clean up is needed. Why is this mentioned if he didn't become president until 2000? He is NOT his father, this article seems intent on making him so. It looks like a feeble attempt character attack. Bashar, as far as I can tell has, done NOTHING particular offensive to anyone. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 02:08, 22 March 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

== Citation needed? ==
Anonymous user added something about a speech impediment. Removed this until a source can be cited. --] 16:04, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

== Religion ==

Dear all, I have heard that the Pres. Assad is Alavi, but not Sunni Muslem. Is that so? thx <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 15:06, 13 October 2006 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

:Yes, this is correct, as it is stated in the second paragraph of the article. ] 15:16, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, if you look up Alawites, you'll find that they are Shi'ites and not Sunnis.
*The wife is Sunni, though. ] 20:39, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

::Bashar al-Assad is a christian. Its clear when you see his wife and other female relatives do not cover their hair. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 08:01, 28 July 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:::Many Muslims in Syria and elsewhere don't cover their hair. Alawis in particular never wear hijab, but many sunni and shia women also don't. He's not christian.] (]) 08:21, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
::::Correct: laic/modern muslims do not feel compelled to cover their women's hair with blushing embarrassment. His wife's attire simply indicates that he's no fundie, no matter who he politically supports. However, Pres. Barack Hussain Obama IS NOT muslim, in spite of tenacious (and sneaky!) rumor. ;-) ] (]) 23:51, 11 February 2011 (UTC)

== Israeli War in Lebanon ==

I am going to delete the sentence that talks about how Israel lost the War in Lebanon in the Summer of 2006. I find the assertion that Israel lost that war to be false, and I'm sure most would agree with me. <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 06:34, 16 October 2006 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->


Yes, especially since it wasn't a war as much as a massacre of the lebanese. People need to get their facts straight.

The Israelis started that war and weren't able to reach their aims, which mean they have lost the war.


Can i ask you the reason why you think its false info?? Or because you can not admit that they lost like the 76 war ??

:: I don't think that it is necessarily false, but it is probably unproveable either way. The Summer '06 Israeli-Lebanon war is one that is shielded with controversy and POV, and it's a war that is difficult to say whether there were "winners" and "losers," largely because the goals, intentions, and "aims" of both parties -- Hezbollah and IDF -- were never clearly articulated. For what it's worth, if you really want to talk about goals, then every Islamic Middle-Eastern country has lost every war with Israel, because the goal of destroying Israel has not come to fruition... Thus showing the uselessness of talking about goals in non-traditional wars (like that between Lebanon and Israel in '06). ] 20:31, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

== ] ? ==

Do you have a source for that statement? --] 11:06, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

== Shaa'b ==

:"Shaa'b" seems to have the apostrophe in the wrong place.

== Pic Change ==

Ive put a nice pic coz i dont think the old pic is nice

:I've sourced another photo of Bashar & got the licence to use it, the quality is far better. I've changed the picture to the new one. Author - Ammar Abd Rabbo Source - http://flickr.com/photos/21499556@N04/2085667933/ License - Some rights reserved CC-BY-SA --] (]) 23:01, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
*Hmmm, is it better? It could be good for the body of the article, but as the main photo? I think a photo of only Bashar would be better. I'll mess with it and see how it looks. ] (]) 23:16, 26 March 2008 (UTC)
::I hear what you're saying. there are three possible photos, The headshot currently on the article with the floral design behind, the same photo with the designs shopped out and the Moscow photo I added. The reason I felt it was better was that the picture quality was much higher than the grainy headshot photos, and as well as depicting him normally, the grainy headshot photos make him look more like ] than usual. Do you think we should crop out his wife? --] (]) 03:04, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
*Yeah, I certainly agree that the quality of the newer picture is a lot better, but I think the picture of only Bashar standing in a suit fits more for the infobox, as well, it is more representative of how he usually looks and seems more "official". The newer picture is better to illustrate his personal life I think. Take a look at the ] article for example, where a more "formal" picture is used in the infobox, and more informal pictures of he and his family are used in the body of the article.

Just uploaded a bigger version of the image by the way. ] (]) 03:22, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

== Ophthalmologist? ==

Was he a practicing ophthalmologist and if so during which years?

== Presidency ==

"Bashar resembles his father in every sense but is more subtly surgical in removing opposition."

This is unsourced and obviously POV. I believe a swift removal is in order. --] (]) 02:46, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

== Picture? ==

Is it just me or does the default look like a CGI/Graphic/Cartoon?

] (]) 01:52, 6 February 2009 (UTC)
:I was wondering the same thing. ] (]) 13:06, 3 June 2010 (UTC)

== HOLOCAUST DENIER? ==

Personally ,Bashar al-Assad is a ] denier himself , claiming that he doesn't have "any clue how Jews were killed or how many were killed" and that while a massacre of Jews took place during World War II, the perception in the Middle East is that the number of Holocaust victims was exaggerated. Links are http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3233327,00.html and http://www.learntoquestion.com/resources/database/archives/001376.html ] (]) 09:23, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
:"that while a massacre of Jews took place during World War II, the ''perception in the Middle East'' is that the number of Holocaust victims was exaggerated."... He might be a lot of terrible things, but he's certainly not a Holocaust denier. ] (]) 09:44, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
He might not be one,but he gives aid and comfort to Holocaust deniers.Look at link for more info.http://www.adl.org/PresRele/HolocaustDenial_83/4897_83.htm However,he says the numbers of those murdered during the holocaust are exagerrated.Link is http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3233327,00.html ] (]) 13:14, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
I welcome your view,but it is best if you have evidence. Besides,not all middle-easterners have the same view.For instance,take Ahmadinejad.He is a Holocaust denier. 09:36, 28 July 2009 (UTC)
Also,claims that the Holocaust numbers were exagerrated is considered Holocaust denial.For more information, see[REDACTED] article on Holocaust denial. ] (]) 06:15, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
:You are deliberately distorting the source and adding POV material, he also said that "The Syrian leader added that he did not know whether the killing of Jews was carried out through shootings or the use of gas chambers, noting he is not an expert on the matter." and however, "The killing method or number of victims are not important, Assad argued." I am reverting. If you feel this is very important then you might want to file for an RfC. ] (]) 06:20, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
:najad said he doesn't believe it happened. Assad said numbers don't matter, a massacre is a massacre! read the source, PLEASE! ] (]) 06:23, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
I am not interested in filing an RfC,this will end here.also,please mind your etiquette.] (]) 07:45, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
== FRENCH? ==

I'm not exactly sure if he can speak French.If he can,what level is it? ] (]) 13:22, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
:The article says "casual conversational French". He studied at al-Hurriya, which is a very francophone-oriented school, so I'm fairly certain he speaks very good french.

== "Women have no souls" according to al-Assad. ==

Bashar al-Assad believes that women have no souls. Maybe that could be added the article.

http://www.canadafreepress.com/2006/cover072106.htm <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 04:09, 30 December 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

:No, that "could NOT be added to the article". So many things wrong with that recommendation, where to start?


== Pronunciation ==
:- Why the anonymous letter-style "denounciation"? If you're not a registered user, it doesn't prevent you from mentioning a screen name, anything you like, but SOMETHING specific to you. Otherwise, what's to tell us you're not another professional spin-doctor or CIA agent lurker trying to manipulate Misplaced Pages, as has happened several times in the past? Not trying to sound ''ad hominem''... but it's impossible to "''ad hominem''" an '''unknown''' person, anyway! Better that you introduce yourself open-facedly.


Why is the pronunciation {{respell|bə|SHAR|_|AL|ə|SAHD}} which puts the stress incorrectly on the final syllable depicted in the opening note of this article? The stress should be on the "AH" part per the Arabic pronunciation, approximating the American English pronunciation of "Acid". ]+<small>(])</small> 01:21, 10 December 2024 (UTC)
:- Since Bashar al-Assad is not world-famous (like ]) for sensational polemic international statements, what's the relevance of that detail in an encyclopedic article? Should we also care whether he loves raw liver or despises Goethe's writings? Unless he's a notorious misogynist and it shows in the way he rules, that's rather pointless.


:Source this please. ] (]) 06:19, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:- There is no evidence that Assad is a very religious Alawite in the first place. The Baath is a laic party. Therefore I won't even bother to check whether that claim about Alawites is true in the first place. Irrelevant anyway. I myself was raised in a community whose religious belief is that "we're better than all the other miscreants", but I didn't adhere to that nonsense. "Objection, your Honor : hear-say!"


== dictator ==
:- Just because an article is published in a Western newspaper, is no guarantee of journalistic objectivity. Especially, media in anglo-saxon countries (like '''Canada''') have many a time published unproven claims against "unfriendly regimes". It's called "fair game propaganda", baby. Not once does this Judi McLeod character remotely suggest having some sort of source for that "article". Give me a link to the official Syrian news agency '''REPORTING''' such a statement, in one form or another, originating from Assad himself, and I'll happily translate it myself to serve as a reliable reference. Because '''then''', it could genuinely be called "news" from a meaningful source, in compliance with Misplaced Pages standards.


Editor @] of the "dictator" label in the opening paragraph with the reasoning "He is not!".
:- The entire form and tone of that article you link to is... embarrassing, without anything specific to inform about. It doesn't report any NEWS. It's more like an editorial, and an organized '''pamphlet''' aimed against Assad to make him look bad to the readers. Throwing in anything and everything together at random, like nearly-official government propaganda against an "unfriendly regime". (Was Canada about to send unpopular reinforcements to Iraq in July 2006, I wonder?) The article's "catchy" title itself is never backed by any subsequent mention of a statement from the Syrian President. It was all just an excuse to reach the predictable negative, and still unbacked, conclusion. FYI, Bashar is VERY different from his father in at least one thing: in the second Gulf War waged by the US against Saddam, he backed '''the other side'''. In his days, old Hafez had sided with the Coalition...
Since motivations are insufficient, I've reinstated the addition as "ruled in a dictatorship", which has a nice flow, avoids a too stringent label, and is extremelly precise on what sources are reporting. ] (]) 13:18, 21 December 2024 (UTC)


:The label "dictator" is sufficiently sourced and described in the article body. It belongs in the lead without euphemism. <big>]]</big> 06:23, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:In conclusion, I vouch for immediate dismissal. And I'm showing MY name. You can contact me anytime on my talk page: ] (]) 00:40, 12 February 2011 (UTC)
::Agreed. My formulation is not an euphemism though, I have kept the more general term "politician" and described more precisely that he "ruled Syria as a dictator". Sounds good enough for me. ] (]) 16:19, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
:::which has been removed by @] who has asked editors to refer to this talk page discussion. Could @] please clarify? ] (]) 14:43, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
::::It is just an undiscussed removal of a well sourced extremelly relevant addition. It was restored in the first sentence dictator form, which I find equivalent to the one I've used. Both are good, the only thing that it is unacceptable is the dictatorship erasure from first paragraph. ] (]) 17:33, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
::::https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Bashar_al-Assad#Bashar_the_dictator_in_the_first_sentence
https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Bashar_al-Assad#The_word_%22dictator%22_in_the_lead ] (]) 14:50, 26 December 2024 (UTC)


== International support ==
== Removal of sourced text ==


If you are gonna add a sub-head 'Far-right' you might as well add one called 'Far-left' since several radical left leaders and organizations have supported him. Don't show your biasm this clearly. At least pretend to be objective once in a while. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 10:14, 23 December 2024 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
''Jouejati<ref>{{dead link|date=August 2010}}</ref> argues that economic reforms have the potential to lead to political reforms.''


== Section title renamed ==
<small>{{Reflist}}</small>


We should renamed the section of "Exile in Russia" -> "Downfall and Exile" or "Downfall and Exile in Russia" (or any other name) because the section talking about Assad's final month(s) and eventually exile to Russia. Right now, I'm going to change the second to the latter to somewhat make sense. But If someone had reverted (or make a better section title), I want to know in ] why.
The above cited text was removed in the last revision with the edit summary "ce", probably meaning "copy edit". I mention it here in case its removal was an oversight.
] (]) 09:21, 24 December 2024 (UTC)


== Semi-protected edit request on 26 December 2024 ==
The link is dead but there is an archived copy . I leave it to others whether and how this should be reinstated. Generally, please could editors be careful in how they decsribe their edits in the edit summaries. Removal of sourced text is more than copy editing, and removal of text sourced by dead links is definitely discouraged. -] (]) 12:32, 1 February 2011 (UTC)


{{edit semi-protected|Bashar al-Assad|answered=yes}}
== Weasel word alert? ==
This part: On 23 December 2024, it was reported that Asma al-Assad had filed for divorce after being dissatisfied with life in Moscow. However, the reports were denied by the Russian government. should either be removed or reedited with sources refilled. ] (]) 02:37, 26 December 2024 (UTC)


:{{Not done}}: Do you have any sources? ] (]|]) 02:55, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
With apologies, people, I need to raise the very sensitive issue of "terrorism" here. While there's no denying that Assad is an objective ally of some radical groups and allows/welcomes them in his country, I'm very bothered specifically by the formulation ''"He has been criticized for his sponsorship of terrorism"''. Do you see what I'm getting at here? "] terrorism" is a hazardous claim, simply because he provides sanctum to Hamas figures. The whole Isreali-Palestinian issue is a notorious can of worms, one person's "terrorism" is another's "resistance against invasion and occupation", and it is not our role to take sides. A Misplaced Pages article needs to carefully formulate objective, '''factual''' terms. Now, if he had officially praised Osama in 2K1, that would be quite different.
::{{ping|Ivebeenhacked}} Have you read what I wrote in the first place? <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 03:27, 26 December 2024 (UTC)</small>
:::I misread. I've fixed the citations. ] (]|]) 04:18, 26 December 2024 (UTC)


== The Giraffe Name ==
Need I remind you that while the majority of 9/11 perpetrators came from openly fundamentalist ], and so does much of their funding, that country's article never mentions any "sponsorship of terrorism"? And for good reason it doesn't! Shades of gray, folks. Shades of gray...


Syrian people used to call him "Giraffe" in reference to his long nick.
As for his links with Hezbollah, when was the last time the latter hijacked a plane or bombed random civilians in a western country? Theirs too is a delicate to define position nowadays, their two main activities being internal Lebanese affairs and their conflict with Israel, again rather military in nature. The whole world has changed a lot since the Eighties. Just because the US Department of Foreign Affairs keeps sticking the word "terrorists" to all anti-zionist movements does not turn geopolitical propaganda into objective encyclopedic facts.
This name is widely known and used.


And, finally, regarding the assassination of Rafik Hariri (which CAN qualify as terrorism... or as a mere political assassination, really), Syria has always adamantly denied any involvement, and the interntional investigation still hasn't concluded otherwise. Even if it did one day, there is heated debate about that institution's neutrality, especially relatively to the USA.


reference
So, better to state WHO exactly is calling Assad "a sponsor of terrorism", rather than use general terms that "aid and abet" a failure of Misplaced Pages's beautiful and strict objectivity... a risk I rather intensely perceived on this very talk page! As the would-be cogs of an impeccable mechanism of worldwide knowledge, we have a duty to beware of all biases, including the very real propaganda tendancies of "the System" in the West. "Show me a politician and I'll show you a liar", as the proverb goes.
https://www.irishtimes.com/podcasts/in-the-news/lara-marlowe-on-meeting-bashar-al-assad-he-was-comical-looking-they-called-him-the-giraffe/ ] (]) 04:14, 1 January 2025 (UTC)


== Supposed poisoning attempt ==
We all need to stay wary of our own, individual, cultural biases. I know I always try to. I'm having a very hard time finding a satisfactory reformulation of that bit in the introduction. Maybe I'll try an edit at some point. But the help of seasoned contributors more expert in the nuances of the English language would be welcome. ] (]) 01:17, 12 February 2011 (UTC)


I {{diff|Bashar al-Assad|prev|1266976981|reverted this weakly sourced claim}} of Assad being poisoned. as a source ], but for the purposes of this talk page, its analysis that the ''General SVR'' Telegram channel {{tq|run by former and current members of the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service}} has earlier published strong claims that failed to be confirmed does look credible, i.e. there's little reason to take the poisoning claim seriously. The only possibly newsworthy part of this so far is that a lot of newspapers have broadcast the meme further, including British tabloids; this might be interesting for the topics of ] or ], if a ] considered it significant enough as mis/disinformation. As a ], stronger sources are needed before publishing a claim like this.
== Lede ==


Since I've done my 1RR on this, others will have to do other reverts if the poisoning claim is added again prior to consensus. ] (]) 02:24, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
Ledes are being misused (and not just in this article) to project a certain view and weight which is not encyclopedic. We have the body of the article and various related articles (], ], ] et al) in which contentious statements can be addressed and discussed properly. ] (]) 03:35, 29 April 2011 (UTC)


:TODO: There's still {{tq|As of January 2, 2025, Assad may have been poisoned while in Russia. }} in the lead in {{oldid|Bashar al-Assad|1266998539|label=in the version 04:33, 3 January 2025}} with the ] generally unreliable source as bare URL and non-dmy date. ] (]) 06:09, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
== Attitudes toward Judaism ==
:And it's in the section ''Assassination attempts'': {{tq|In 2025, it was reported that Assad was poisoned in Moscow, Russia.}} also in {{oldid|Bashar al-Assad|1266998539|label=in the version 04:33, 3 January 2025}} per '']'' per the ''General SVR'' Telegram Russian spies/ex-spies. ] (]) 06:20, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
Yesterday I created a new section in the article for part of the text below and gave it the name "Statements about Jews." Another editor reverted the addition claiming that the information was not notable – a claim I demonstrated to hold no water shortly thereafter by the addition of more notable sources. Next came another editor, expanding the addition but moving it from "Statements about Jews" to "Presidency"→"Arab-Israeli conflict." Now, there's nothing wrong with the expansion; I even welcome it. But why was the section moved into "Arab-Israeli conflict," as though anything in the Middle East relating to Jews is necessarily a feature of the conflict? That strikes me as editorializing – and a perplexing instance of it at that. Now, I've elected to keep the addition under "Presidency" out of consideration for those arguing that it does not deserve a primary section all its own; however, I've taken it out of "Arab-Israeli conflict" with which it has nothing to do and renamed the subsection "Attitudes toward Judaism." The reason is that there's no longer just a comment ''about'' Jews but also an example of Assad's policy ''toward'' Syrian Jewry.—] (]) 09:32, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
::No arguments in favour of reporting the rumour in Misplaced Pages were presented, so {{diff|Bashar al-Assad|prev|1267329908|I removed the two sentences}} propagating the rumour. ] (]) 17:10, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
:::{{re|BasselHarfouch|Bri|Richie1509|Geraldshields11|Nikkimaria}} Per ], {{tq|Snopes is certified by the International Fact-Checking Network, and is considered generally reliable}}, and : {{tq|Claims originating from General SVR have been credulously promoted by The Sun and other tabloids numerous times since 2022, despite the account's self-evidently dubious track record. ... The only "evidence" for any of these claims — then and now — was General SVR. ... Jade McGlynn, a researcher on Russian propaganda and media, told Business Insider in January 2023 that the account's propaganda successfully infiltrates Western media because of its outlandish or oversimplified claims. Aric Toler, an open-source investigator who reports on Russian disinformation, has told his followers to discard anything the account claims.}} The rumour itself is not ], because it's from a source with a reputation for disinformation.{{pb}}After all, ] per the same source was somewhat exaggerated, even though he "may have died" on 26 Oct 2023 and "it was reported that he allegedly died" on 26 Oct 2023. ] (]) 17:30, 4 January 2025 (UTC)


== Torturer category ==
During the visit of Pope ] to Syria in 2001, Bashar al-Assad accused Jews of having killed ] and of having tried to kill ].<ref>{{cite news|title=Polish experience shaped Pope's Jewish relations|url=http://www.cbc.ca/news/obit/pope/polish_experience.html|accessdate=7 May 2011|newspaper=]|month=April|year=2005|quote=The decision to beatify Pius IX, the pope who kidnapped a Jewish child in Bologna and who put Rome's Jews back in their ghetto, was one question mark. John Paul's silence in 2001 when Syrian President Bashar Al-Assad said Jews had killed Christ and tried to kill Mohammad was another.}}</ref> "They tried to kill the principles of all religions with the same mentality in which they betrayed Jesus Christ and the same way they tried to betray and kill the Prophet Mohammed," al-Assad said.<ref>{{cite news|title=Pope appeals for Mideast peace|url=http://edition.cnn.com/2001/WORLD/meast/05/05/pope.syria/index.html|accessdate=7 May 2011|newspaper=]|date=5 May 2001|location=]}}</ref><ref>{{cite book|title=Congressional Record: Proceedings and Debates of the 107th Congress, First Session|year=2001|publisher=]|url=http://books.google.com/books?id=hCYK7X_SqHIC|accessdate=7 May 2011|page=7912|month=May}}</ref><ref>{{cite web|title=ADL Urges World and Religious Leaders to Denounce Syrian President's Anti-Jewish Diatribe Delivered in Presence of the Pope|url=http://www.adl.org/presrele/islme_62/3825_62.asp|work=]|accessdate=7 May 2011|location=]|date=6 May 2001}}</ref> On the other hand, Bashar has begun to fund the restoration of 10 synagogues, in Syria, and other buildings associated with Syria's Jewish community, which had numbered 30,000 in 1947.<ref>''Bloomberg'', By Massoud A. Derhally - Feb 7, 2011 9:11 AM GMT</ref>
{{reflist-talk|close=1}}
:Put it into another section, doesn't need a section of its own for one single statement, that is undue weight. ] (]) 11:25, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
::The concern of not wanting a discrete section for just a few lines is understood. There is also about Syria (and hence indirectly Assad) inviting an Israeli rabbi to visit the country. So there are two reasons not to subsume the addition under another section: '''1.''' there is no section where it naturally belongs, and '''2.''' there is still more information with which to expand the addition such that it could stand on its own weight.
::On a related note, I've removing the words "and other buildings associated with Syria's Jewish community," because that's not written anywhere in the Bloomberg source.—] (]) 11:48, 8 May 2011 (UTC)


Would the torturer category be appropriate here? ] (]) 06:01, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
I don't like things taken out of context. It's clear Assad was responding to something, and that 'something' was purposely left out, making it appear Assad suddenly, out of the blue, 'attacked' Catholics and Jews. After all these years o keeping Syria secular, you're claiming he harbors sectarian hatreds? Doesn't sound likely to me, just looks like the usual desperate cherry-picking of quotes. ] (]) 14:39, 8 May 2011 (UTC)
:You had better have a damn good reason for assuming bad faith and accusing me of deliberately leaving out context and cherry picking, otherwise I expect you to strike that comment out from your message immediately.—] (]) 07:43, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
::I call it as I see it. ] (])
The paragraph should be integrated with the rest of the article - making a whole separate section around it is UNDUE (as if we made a separate section about his "attitude towards Christians", or even "attitude towards the English" etc). That paragraph is part of the subject of the Israel-Syria conflict, which includes the consequent loss of the Syrian Jewish community in 1948 and the deterioration of Synagogues etc; his 2001 statement is clearly relevant to the fact that his country is at war with the Jewish state.] (]) 15:29, 9 May 2011 (UTC)
:] is of no bearing on this content. That policy is relevant to content where there are conflicting sources and no consensus. No one disputes what Assad said about Jews. Furthermore, saying that the paragraph "is part of the subject of the Israel-Syria conflict" needs to be backed by a ], otherwise it is as good as a personal opinion. For now there is no objective reason to identify Assad's comments about Jews in the context of the Arab-Israeli conflict. Indeed, the more I learn about this, the more it may be a perpetuation of a long history of similar attitudes in Syria's history. More on that next week, though. The important thing is that all assertions need to be verifiable, and the assertion that Assad accused the Jews of killing Jesus is related to the Arab-Israeli conflict does not meet that criterion.—] (]) 08:50, 11 May 2011 (UTC)
::In from July 2001, Assad goes into considerable detail about his attitudes toward Jews and Judaism. It'll take me some time to translate the relative parts into English, so help will be appreciate from any contributors proficient in German.—] (]) 12:02, 19 May 2011 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 00:15, 24 January 2025

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Bashar al-Assad article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
Article policies
Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3Auto-archiving period: 30 days 
The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.
WARNING: ACTIVE COMMUNITY SANCTIONS

The article Bashar al-Assad, along with other pages relating to the Syrian Civil War and ISIL, is designated by the community as a contentious topic. The current restrictions are:

  • Limit of one revert in 24 hours: This article is under WP:1RR (one revert per editor per article per 24-hour period)

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Misplaced Pages, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be sanctioned.

Remedy instructions and exemptions

Enforcement procedures:

  • Violations of any restrictions (excluding 1RR/reverting violations) and other conduct issues should be reported to the administrators' incidents noticeboard. Violations of revert restrictions should be reported to the administrators' edit warring noticeboard.
  • Editors who violate any listed restrictions may be blocked by any uninvolved administrator, even on a first offense.
  • An editor must be aware before they can be sanctioned.

With respect to any reverting restrictions:

  • Edits made solely to enforce any clearly established consensus are exempt from all edit-warring restrictions. In order to be considered "clearly established" the consensus must be proven by prior talk-page discussion.
  • Edits made which remove or otherwise change any material placed by clearly established consensus, without first obtaining consensus to do so, may be treated in the same manner as clear vandalism.
  • Clear vandalism of any origin may be reverted without restriction.
  • Reverts of edits made by anonymous (IP) editors that are not vandalism are exempt from the 1RR but are subject to the usual rules on edit warring. If you are in doubt, contact an administrator for assistance.

If you are unsure if your edit is appropriate, discuss it here on this talk page first. Remember: When in doubt, don't revert!

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 4 times. The weeks in which this happened:
Media mentionThis article has been mentioned by a media organization:
This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.This page is about a politician who is running for office or has recently run for office, is in office and campaigning for re-election, or is involved in some current political conflict or controversy. For that reason, this article is at increased risk of biased editing, talk-page trolling, and simple vandalism.If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.
This  level-5 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:
WikiProject iconBiography: Politics and Government
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the politics and government work group (assessed as Mid-importance).
WikiProject iconSyria Top‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Syria, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Syria on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SyriaWikipedia:WikiProject SyriaTemplate:WikiProject SyriaSyria
TopThis article has been rated as Top-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconArab world High‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Arab world, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Arab world on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Arab worldWikipedia:WikiProject Arab worldTemplate:WikiProject Arab worldArab world
HighThis article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconSocialism Mid‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Socialism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of socialism on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SocialismWikipedia:WikiProject SocialismTemplate:WikiProject Socialismsocialism
MidThis article has been rated as Mid-importance on the project's importance scale.
WikiProject iconCrime and Criminal Biography: Terrorism Low‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related
LowThis article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.
Taskforce icon
This article is supported by the Terrorism task force (assessed as Mid-importance).
WikiProject iconPolitics High‑importance
WikiProject iconThis article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics
HighThis article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale.


You may want to increment {{Archive basics}} to |counter= 3 as Talk:Bashar al-Assad/Archive 2 is larger than the recommended 150Kb.

Tip: Anchors are case-sensitive in most browsers.

This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.

  • ]
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. | Reporting errors

Pronunciation

Why is the pronunciation bə-SHAR AL-ə-SAHD which puts the stress incorrectly on the final syllable depicted in the opening note of this article? The stress should be on the "AH" part per the Arabic pronunciation, approximating the American English pronunciation of "Acid". Colipon+(Talk) 01:21, 10 December 2024 (UTC)

Source this please. 2600:100C:A21D:971A:3DFA:A9B2:FCD8:A60 (talk) 06:19, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

dictator

Editor @Therealbey removed my addition of the "dictator" label in the opening paragraph with the reasoning "He is not!". Since motivations are insufficient, I've reinstated the addition as "ruled in a dictatorship", which has a nice flow, avoids a too stringent label, and is extremelly precise on what sources are reporting. Cinemaandpolitics (talk) 13:18, 21 December 2024 (UTC)

The label "dictator" is sufficiently sourced and described in the article body. It belongs in the lead without euphemism. Yue🌙 06:23, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
Agreed. My formulation is not an euphemism though, I have kept the more general term "politician" and described more precisely that he "ruled Syria as a dictator". Sounds good enough for me. Cinemaandpolitics (talk) 16:19, 22 December 2024 (UTC)
which has been removed by @Setarip who has asked editors to refer to this talk page discussion. Could @Setarip please clarify? Theofunny (talk) 14:43, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
It is just an undiscussed removal of a well sourced extremelly relevant addition. It was restored in the first sentence dictator form, which I find equivalent to the one I've used. Both are good, the only thing that it is unacceptable is the dictatorship erasure from first paragraph. Cinemaandpolitics (talk) 17:33, 27 December 2024 (UTC)
https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Bashar_al-Assad#Bashar_the_dictator_in_the_first_sentence

https://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Bashar_al-Assad#The_word_%22dictator%22_in_the_lead Setarip (talk) 14:50, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

International support

If you are gonna add a sub-head 'Far-right' you might as well add one called 'Far-left' since several radical left leaders and organizations have supported him. Don't show your biasm this clearly. At least pretend to be objective once in a while. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:A212:A583:8C80:A927:9308:5AB4:CC1B (talk) 10:14, 23 December 2024 (UTC)

Section title renamed

We should renamed the section of "Exile in Russia" -> "Downfall and Exile" or "Downfall and Exile in Russia" (or any other name) because the section talking about Assad's final month(s) and eventually exile to Russia. Right now, I'm going to change the second to the latter to somewhat make sense. But If someone had reverted (or make a better section title), I want to know in good faith why. SpartanMazda (talk) 09:21, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 26 December 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

This part: On 23 December 2024, it was reported that Asma al-Assad had filed for divorce after being dissatisfied with life in Moscow. However, the reports were denied by the Russian government. should either be removed or reedited with sources refilled. 2003:100:3700:8C00:C49B:48AA:5305:49BF (talk) 02:37, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: Do you have any sources? Hacked (Talk|Contribs) 02:55, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
@Ivebeenhacked: Have you read what I wrote in the first place? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2003:100:3700:8c00:c49b:48aa:5305:49bf (talk) 03:27, 26 December 2024 (UTC)
I misread. I've fixed the citations. Hacked (Talk|Contribs) 04:18, 26 December 2024 (UTC)

The Giraffe Name

Syrian people used to call him "Giraffe" in reference to his long nick. This name is widely known and used.


reference https://www.irishtimes.com/podcasts/in-the-news/lara-marlowe-on-meeting-bashar-al-assad-he-was-comical-looking-they-called-him-the-giraffe/ Niafandi (talk) 04:14, 1 January 2025 (UTC)

Supposed poisoning attempt

I reverted this weakly sourced claim of Assad being poisoned. Newsweek as a source has problems, but for the purposes of this talk page, its analysis that the General SVR Telegram channel run by former and current members of the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service has earlier published strong claims that failed to be confirmed does look credible, i.e. there's little reason to take the poisoning claim seriously. The only possibly newsworthy part of this so far is that a lot of newspapers have broadcast the meme further, including British tabloids; this might be interesting for the topics of misinformation or disinformation, if a WP:RS considered it significant enough as mis/disinformation. As a WP:BLP, stronger sources are needed before publishing a claim like this.

Since I've done my 1RR on this, others will have to do other reverts if the poisoning claim is added again prior to consensus. Boud (talk) 02:24, 3 January 2025 (UTC)

TODO: There's still As of January 2, 2025, Assad may have been poisoned while in Russia. in the lead in in the version 04:33, 3 January 2025 with the WP:NEWSWEEK generally unreliable source as bare URL and non-dmy date. Boud (talk) 06:09, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
And it's in the section Assassination attempts: In 2025, it was reported that Assad was poisoned in Moscow, Russia. also in in the version 04:33, 3 January 2025 per The Economic Times per the General SVR Telegram Russian spies/ex-spies. Boud (talk) 06:20, 3 January 2025 (UTC)
No arguments in favour of reporting the rumour in Misplaced Pages were presented, so I removed the two sentences propagating the rumour. Boud (talk) 17:10, 4 January 2025 (UTC)
@BasselHarfouch, Bri, Richie1509, Geraldshields11, and Nikkimaria: Per WP:SNOPES, Snopes is certified by the International Fact-Checking Network, and is considered generally reliable, and Alex Kasprak says on Snopes: Claims originating from General SVR have been credulously promoted by The Sun and other tabloids numerous times since 2022, despite the account's self-evidently dubious track record. ... The only "evidence" for any of these claims — then and now — was General SVR. ... Jade McGlynn, a researcher on Russian propaganda and media, told Business Insider in January 2023 that the account's propaganda successfully infiltrates Western media because of its outlandish or oversimplified claims. Aric Toler, an open-source investigator who reports on Russian disinformation, has told his followers to discard anything the account claims. The rumour itself is not WP:NOTABLE, because it's from a source with a reputation for disinformation.After all, Vladimir Putin's death on 26 October 2023 per the same source was somewhat exaggerated, even though he "may have died" on 26 Oct 2023 and "it was reported that he allegedly died" on 26 Oct 2023. Boud (talk) 17:30, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Torturer category

Would the torturer category be appropriate here? 2600:100C:A21D:971A:3DFA:A9B2:FCD8:A60 (talk) 06:01, 4 January 2025 (UTC)

Categories:
Talk:Bashar al-Assad: Difference between revisions Add topic