| Revision as of 09:52, 25 November 2012 editMiszaBot I (talk | contribs)234,552 editsm Robot: Archiving 2 threads (older than 90d) to Talk:Cyprus/Archive 7.← Previous edit |
Latest revision as of 02:40, 5 January 2025 edit undoCannolis (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers40,282 edits →Semi-protected edit request on 5 January 2025: Responded to edit requestTag: editProtectedHelper |
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== Bias. == |
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I genuinely beleive that this article heavilly slanted in the Greco-Cypriot's point of view. When I attempted to make the article more neutral, my edits were deleted (by a Greek, incidently). And, further-more, I was treated with patronization, and not with the dignity & respect a fellow Misplaced Pages deserves. Misplaced Pages clearly states that its articles must be unbiased, & Misplaced Pages is not a battleground, nor is it a propaganda journal. |
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For instance: |
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- The article refers to the Republic of Cyprus as an "island nation", it is ''clearly'' no-more an island nation than Éire is. |
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- The flag presented depicts the island of Cyprus in it, yet surely the 2004 neutral flag would be more appropriate? |
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- The territory shown includes the land occupied by the RoC, TRNC, UN zone, & the UK bases; this does not constitute the true territory of the RoC. |
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- The style of the article is not as though it was presenting the Republic of Cyprus as viewpoint/perspective, as it should; but as a fact, which it should not do. |
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Also, unrelatedly, the ethnicity descritions are incorrect: a Greek is, & only is, a national of the Hellenic Republic; & the Turkish are those, & only those, who are nations of Turkey. To describe one says they are Greco, & Turk, respectively. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> |
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I agree with the above. No real mention of EOKA's genocide of Turkish Cypriot villages in the South. Very slanted to the Greek perspective. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 10:10, 4 September 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:Popkid2002uk, you are free to discuss and edit the article. Create new sections on this talk page so the editors can address your concerns. ] (]) 11:46, 4 September 2012 (UTC) |
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:: I also think that we should include massacres committed by EOKA B. We cannot deny the truth about the atrocities committed by both sides during the war and it would be unbiased if we do so. But I disagree with the usage of proposed 2004 flag, as this was rejected anyway. The use of word 'island nation' also is a set thing. Cyprus has been referred to as 'Island nation' due to political reasons as it is accepted by international community that the Republic of Cyprus represent the entire island, therefore (even if not de facto correct) is an appropriate usage. In addition, territories shown on this page do clearly show the bases and territories not under effective control of the Republic (occupied north is shown with lighter green!). Furthermore, ethnicity is shown correctly. I rather prefer it to be called Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot than just Greek or Turkish (that would also be politically biased). You can change anything you want but please do not make this article a battleground and keep editing and deleting everything the way you like it to be. ] (]) 21:07, 20 November 2012 (UTC) |
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== RE : In 1974, following the intercommunal violence between Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots, an attempted coup......... took place. == |
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<i>In 1974, following the intercommunal violence between Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots, an attempted coup d'état by Greek Cypriot nationalists and elements of the Greek military junta with the aim of achieving enosis (union of the island with Greece) took place.</i> |
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The inter communal violence occurred in 1963, that is, 11 years before the coup of 1974. The clashes of 1967 was a confrontation between militants at Kokkina. The article as it is, will mislead the reader into thinking there was inter communal violence in 1974, shortly before the coup. The phrase "following the intercommunal violence" implies that inter communal violence was a factor in the decision to overthrow the legitimate government when it wasn't. This sentence must be changed to address these points. ] (]) 07:16, 4 September 2012 (UTC) |
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== RE : The intercommunal violence and <u>subsequent</u><sup>??</sup> Turkish invasion led to the displacement of over 150,000 Greek Cypriots and 50,000 Turkish Cypriots, == |
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== Turkish names for Cyprus == |
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There are a couple problems with this sentence. <br> |
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1. What inter communal violence is the sentence referring to ? The ] in 1974 happened <u><b>AFTER</u></b> the 2nd Turkish invasion (14th August), not before. So the sentence should read "The Turkish invasion and subsequent intercommunal violence".<br> |
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2. The 50,000 Turkish Cypriots in the Greek held territory were "displaced" to the Turkish side in 1975, a year after the Turkish invasion. At the same time, a few thousand Greeks trapped in the north came to the south. The displacement of those 50,000 Turkish Cypriots (and Greeks of the north) was the result of an agreement between the Greeks and Turks in 1975, not (directly) by the Turkish invasion in 1974.<br> |
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The sentence as it is now, implies this sequence of events |
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* 1. Inter communal violence |
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* 2. Turkish invasion |
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* 3. Displacement of 150,000 Greek Cypriots and 50,000 Turkish Cypriots |
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But the truth, which can be easily backed up by Turkish sources, is this |
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* 1. Turkish invasion |
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* 2. Inter communal violence, and displacement of 150,000 Greek Cypriots (I don't know how many TCs) |
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* 3. One year later, in 1975, agreement to displace 50,000 Turkish Cypriots from the south and the remaining Greek Cypriots in the north |
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This sentence must be rewritten to address my points. ] (]) 07:55, 4 September 2012 (UTC) |
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In case one is asking me for the reason for my recent edits, I added mentions of the Turkish government and that of the TRNC not recognising the internationally recognised government of Cyprus and calling it the "Greek Cypriot Administration of Southern Cyprus" and the "Greek Cypriot Administration" while citing the following sources: |
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:Be ], go for it. ] (]) 08:14, 4 September 2012 (UTC) |
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* https://mfa.gov.ct.tr/tr/guney-kibris-rum-yonetiminde-saldiriya-ugrayan-kibris-turk-gencleri-hk/ |
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* https://www.mfa.gov.tr/kibris-meselesinin-tarihcesi_-bm-muzakerelerinin-baslangici.tr.mfa |
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* https://www.ab.gov.tr/greek-administration-of-southern-cyprus_255_en.html |
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* https://www.mfa.gov.tr/greek-cypriot_s-unilateral-activities-in-the-eastern-mediterranean.en.mfa |
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* https://mfa.gov.ct.tr/regarding-the-20th-anniversary-of-greek-cypriot-administrations-unilateral-and-illegal-membership-of-the-european-union-2/ |
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My edits pertain to the names that the Turkish government and that of the TRNC commonly use to refer to the internationally recognised government of Cyprus and there are no better sources concerning their opinions and names about Cyprus than their own websites. - ] (]) 00:52, 4 October 2024 (UTC) |
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::Never mind, I have found the proper place to add Türkiye's opinions and names for Cyprus with the relevant sources. - ] (]) 01:11, 4 October 2024 (UTC) |
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::If you can provide enough sources on your version of truth then you can surely go ahead but at the moment it would simply be a POV push. It's a widely accepted fact that there was inter-communal violence before the Turkish intervention. Displacement happened before, during and after the intervention in different stages. The one after the intervention was due to the population exchange agreement while the other ones were due to people running away from the violence. ] (]) 13:29, 4 September 2012 (UTC) |
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:::TheDarkLordSeth, the sentence as it is needs clarification because it begins with <i>"In 1974, following the intercommunal violence....."</i>. ] (]) 12:07, 5 September 2012 (UTC) |
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:::Stop edit warring. ] (]) 09:31, 4 October 2024 (UTC) |
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::::That section there refers to the inter-communal violence that started in 1963 continuing until 1974. ] (]) 13:54, 5 September 2012 (UTC) |
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:As per NPOV: WP:UNDUE such edits do not have a place in the article. Turkish opinions are globally fringe. ] (]) 17:30, 28 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::Just to make sure that the point is very, very clear: The Turkish viewpoint is a small sliver of the global viewpoint, and dedicating space to such a small subset of that one specific viewpoint violates NPOV:WP:UNDUE. ] (]) 17:36, 28 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== Emblem == |
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::That was not a good time to tell someone to be bold Athenean. There was communal violence stretching back long before the Turkish Invasion, which we all know. ] (]) 21:44, 4 September 2012 (UTC) |
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:::CMD, what communal violence "which we all know" are you referring too ? The sentence begins as <i>"In 1974, following the intercommunal violence....."</i>. It reads as if <i>"In 1974, there was inter communal violence followed by a coup"</i> which is not the case. The reader should know the post-independence the violence was almost exclusively in 2 periods, 1963/4 and 1967. If anything, the reader should know that there were no major clashes for the 7 years prior. If you know otherwise, consider editing the ] article for those of us who are unaware. The clashes in 1974 started on the 20th of July, the day Turkey invaded Cyprus. ] (]) 12:01, 5 September 2012 (UTC) |
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{{ping|Vif12vf}} {{ping|Sgrout01}} this user is right. But can someone remove the white background? ] (]) 22:30, 12 December 2024 (UTC) |
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And when and where there was no "intercommunal" violence it was because the Turkish Cypriots were confined into ghettos and could not use their basic rights and liberties, even travelling freely on the island, right? --] (]) 12:13, 5 September 2012 (UTC) |
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:Only about 25-50% of Turkish Cypriots were in enclaves. What "intercommunal" violence did the rest of the Turkish Cypriots experience outside of the periods 1963/4 and 1967 ? ] (]) 12:25, 5 September 2012 (UTC) |
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:{{ping|WeaponizingArchitecture}} can you help? ] (]) 22:55, 12 December 2024 (UTC) |
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@DarkLordSeth re ''"That section there refers to the inter-communal violence that started in 1963 continuing until 1974"'': I think that's the misconception that Helen is trying to address. That the intercommunal violence wasn't ''"continuing until 1974"'' (which led to the coup and subsequently to the invasion) but that the last incident of violence was in 1967 and that 7 years later there was a coup not as a response to intercommunal violence 7 years ago but for other reasons. ] (]) 14:48, 5 September 2012 (UTC) |
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::whats up? <span style="color:#D33C3C"><span style="vertical-align:sub;"><span style="vertical-align:sub;line-height:180%"><span style="font-size:180%; vertical-align:sub;">⛿</span></span></span></span> ] | ] 00:40, 13 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:The current sentence doesn't suggest that the coup happened because of the inter-communal violence. It simply provides a chronological situation. It uses the word "following" instead of "due to". That said it's not a myth that the coup attempt in 1974 was a bloody one. I don't think anyone would deny that and the fact that Turks were not left alone during or before this coup attempt. So, we can easily say that the intercommunal violence have extended up to 1974. What HelenOfOz actually suggests in his initial post that intercommunal violence was directly caused by Turkish intervention. This seems rather like a try to shift a presumed blame. ] (]) 20:14, 5 September 2012 (UTC) |
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:::White background needs to be removed. ] (]) 10:24, 13 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::::{{re|WeaponizingArchitecture}} can you do it? ] (]) 21:48, 14 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:::::I just got finished with Finals and need to catch up with other requests. Sorry. Ill get to it when possible. <span style="color:#D33C3C"><span style="vertical-align:sub;"><span style="vertical-align:sub;line-height:180%"><span style="font-size:180%; vertical-align:sub;">⛿</span></span></span></span> ] | ] 21:50, 14 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::::::Oh not so urgent. But if you do it thanks already. ] (]) 21:52, 14 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:The version you are talking about is not free; the copyright holder is the Cypriot state. The non-identical but heraldically correct version is the one that should be used in such cases. ] (]) 21:38, 31 December 2024 (UTC) |
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:] We use official ] when governments explicitly releases them into the ] or under some ]. The coat of arms in question was not released under a free license by the Republic of Cyprus. ] (]) 21:47, 31 December 2024 (UTC) |
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== Non-neutrality == |
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:Hi all, i think the word "following" in that context you described ] is a misrepresentation of the chronological order of events. "Following" implies or "as a result of" as you can see from the dictionary i have provided. ] ] 20:30, 5 September 2012 (UTC) |
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::Are you suggesting that the Turkish intervention did not happen after the intercommunal violence? ] (]) 20:55, 5 September 2012 (UTC) |
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:::@User:TheDarkLordSeth Am i ? Please re-read what i said. "Following" needs to go mate ] ] 05:06, 6 September 2012 (UTC) |
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::::Well, you said yourself that "following" means "coming after" so I'm trying to understand what's wrong with that. ] (]) 10:58, 6 September 2012 (UTC) |
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The article suffers from non-neutrality that stems from looking at the conflict as a bilateral, or quadrilateral conflict. I ask the editors to zoom out and see that there is a global consensus that the Turkish occupation is illegal, and that the declaration of independence of the occupied territory has been condemned by the United Nations. As per NPOV: WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV one may attribute these statements to the United Nations themselves. Please do not water down the statements, as that is a violation of NPOV: WP:IMPARTIAL and NPOV: WP:UNDUE, as only Turkey wishes to make claims to the contrary. Consider that NPOV: WP:DUE asks that the representation of the viewpoints matches the weight of the ones having the viewpoint, and the United Nations has the collective weight of 192 countries besides Turkey. Thus, as per NPOV: WP:DUE the article should take the position of the United Nations and delegate any Turkish specifications to footnotes. |
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== Recent editing of images == |
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Once again, the United Nations take precedence over Greece, Turkey, Cyprus, or the EU. Please make sure that the article abides by the following UN resolutions: |
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I am very suspicious that one of the recent series of image edits is being done by one individual using more than one IP. I don't have the capability to investigate but I hope somebody else can. Thanks. — ] (]) 08:13, 5 September 2012 (UTC) |
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:if someone changes a photo that you do not like you always have to do everything possible to eliminate the other? nice wikipedia, I'm in charge and that's it, good .... keep it up ...--] (]) 08:19, 5 September 2012 (UTC) |
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UN Security Council Resolution 186 (1964): Reaffirms the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Republic of Cyprus over the entire island. |
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== Topographic map of Cyprus == |
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UN General Assembly Resolution 3212 (1974): Demands the withdrawal of all foreign military forces from the island, rendering the Turkish occupation globally condemnable. |
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Hello, I have created a ] in SVG format. I have used public data but sometimes there are some inconsistencies. Would it be possible for someone to check if it is correct? Thanks --] (]) 21:49, 5 November 2012 (UTC) |
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UN Security Council Resolution 541 (1983): Condemns the unilateral declaration of independence, and establishes the lack of legal and political illegitimacy of the TRNC. |
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== Area figure == |
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UN Security Council Resolution 550 (1984): Condemns attempts to settle any part of Varosha (Famagusta) by anyone other than its lawful inhabitants. |
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clarified that the area given of 9,251 sqkm 'Includes Northern Cyprus, the UN buffer zone, and Akrotiri and Dhekelia'. This answers ]. However, I have some further points: |
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# what is the reference for the assertion that the area is of the island rather than the state? Given the confusion in the sources, it is not sufficient to rely on a single source giving a single figure with no context; there should hopefully be a reliable source which gives '''both''' the island '''and''' the state areas at the same time. |
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# can the infobox also include the state area? That would be a better match for the area_rank statistic, which as it stands is meaningless. |
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# the 2011 census figure excluded Northern Cyprus. What about the buffer zone and sovereign bases? ]<sup>(])</sup> 19:33, 18 November 2012 (UTC) |
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UN Security Council Resolution 1251 (1999): Calls for a bicommunal, bizonal federation as a basis for a solution. |
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:::I already divided the area and populations into RoC, North and British bases but I cannot keep up with people constantly changing the information regarding their own political views. So I just gave up really. But it is true that if RoC claims politically that north belongs to the Republic, we should have information for the whole island, then divide it down to de facto information about south and north. Before people included north in the area but completely refused to include the northern population which I think is politically motivated. There should be detailed information regarding north, but if I do it, it will be changed soon ] (]) 13:28, 20 November 2012 (UTC) |
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In summary, please make sure that your edits reflect the global condemnation of Turkish actions on the island as per NPOV: WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV and NPOV: WP:DUE, and delegate pro-Turkey opinions as per NPOV: WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV and WP:UNDUE. ] (]) 17:28, 28 December 2024 (UTC) |
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::::In my experience, well-referenced statistics are less prone to edit-wars than unreferenced info or non-statistical, more "subjective" info. I don't really care which figure(s) get priority in the infobox, as all of them are available somewhere, with references. Maybe the infobox can crosslink to a subsection. |
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::::It's interesting that marks the Turkish-occupied portion but makes no reference to the UK bases (or the UN buffer zone). It's not clear whether they were included in the 2011 census or not, or more generally to what extent the statistical service regards them as falling within its remit. ]<sup>(])</sup> 15:32, 20 November 2012 (UTC) |
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== Semi-protected edit request on 5 January 2025 == |
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:::::As far as I know, because the British bases do not officially make part of the Republic as the independence treaty signed with Britain clearly states that Cyprus is independent except two bases which belong to the UK. Therefore I am not sure if RoC would even count bases in any of its statistics simply because they are not part of the country. They still try to county North simply because it makes an integral part of the Republic even if it had de facto declared independence from Cyprus. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 16:01, 20 November 2012 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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{{edit semi-protected|Cyprus|answered=yes}} |
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::::::I understand that thinking; however, the map I linked to does not show the bases at all. It might be that the Republic of Cyprus government downplays their existence to some extent, allowing the view to persist that they are leased or temporarily granted to the UK by the Republic, as ], rather than totally external to the Republic. I'm not suggesting that the Republic officially takes such a view, merely that it is less than eager (for whatever reason) to prevent misconceptions. That's just an impression I have, which isn't directly relevant to the article, except that if true it might help explain why statistical breakdowns are hard to track down. ]<sup>(])</sup> 17:17, 20 November 2012 (UTC) |
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You need to add on the sport section the new medal that Kontides have on Olympics.Also u need to mention all the medals that Katerina Pelendritou has such an important personality for cypriot athletics.In general change you info to more news cause a lot of things added. ] (]) 02:25, 5 January 2025 (UTC) |
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:::::::Sorry, I was actually going to point that out too before we had a random power cut. Yes, it is bizarre that bases are shown as Cypriot territory. And that is not the case. I have seen many maps and sources where bases were shown as Cypriot territory and I am sure that the government is fully aware it is not a temporary lease, it is simply given to the UK in the independence treaty. There might be contemporary disagreement in public on that subject but everyone is aware they are British bases. However, also true that due to that attitude, it may be difficult to track down sovereign base populations. As a Cypriot, I have not actually ever heard population in bases being considered as Cypriots. Maybe British sources can point out exact statistics on the bases? ] (]) 20:34, 20 November 2012 (UTC) |
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:] '''Not done''': it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a ] and provide a ] if appropriate.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] (]) 02:40, 5 January 2025 (UTC) |
In case one is asking me for the reason for my recent edits, I added mentions of the Turkish government and that of the TRNC not recognising the internationally recognised government of Cyprus and calling it the "Greek Cypriot Administration of Southern Cyprus" and the "Greek Cypriot Administration" while citing the following sources:
My edits pertain to the names that the Turkish government and that of the TRNC commonly use to refer to the internationally recognised government of Cyprus and there are no better sources concerning their opinions and names about Cyprus than their own websites. - Hu753 (talk) 00:52, 4 October 2024 (UTC)
The article suffers from non-neutrality that stems from looking at the conflict as a bilateral, or quadrilateral conflict. I ask the editors to zoom out and see that there is a global consensus that the Turkish occupation is illegal, and that the declaration of independence of the occupied territory has been condemned by the United Nations. As per NPOV: WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV one may attribute these statements to the United Nations themselves. Please do not water down the statements, as that is a violation of NPOV: WP:IMPARTIAL and NPOV: WP:UNDUE, as only Turkey wishes to make claims to the contrary. Consider that NPOV: WP:DUE asks that the representation of the viewpoints matches the weight of the ones having the viewpoint, and the United Nations has the collective weight of 192 countries besides Turkey. Thus, as per NPOV: WP:DUE the article should take the position of the United Nations and delegate any Turkish specifications to footnotes.
Once again, the United Nations take precedence over Greece, Turkey, Cyprus, or the EU. Please make sure that the article abides by the following UN resolutions:
UN Security Council Resolution 186 (1964): Reaffirms the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Republic of Cyprus over the entire island.
UN General Assembly Resolution 3212 (1974): Demands the withdrawal of all foreign military forces from the island, rendering the Turkish occupation globally condemnable.
UN Security Council Resolution 541 (1983): Condemns the unilateral declaration of independence, and establishes the lack of legal and political illegitimacy of the TRNC.
UN Security Council Resolution 550 (1984): Condemns attempts to settle any part of Varosha (Famagusta) by anyone other than its lawful inhabitants.
UN Security Council Resolution 1251 (1999): Calls for a bicommunal, bizonal federation as a basis for a solution.
In summary, please make sure that your edits reflect the global condemnation of Turkish actions on the island as per NPOV: WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV and NPOV: WP:DUE, and delegate pro-Turkey opinions as per NPOV: WP:ATTRIBUTEPOV and WP:UNDUE. 82.102.110.228 (talk) 17:28, 28 December 2024 (UTC)
You need to add on the sport section the new medal that Kontides have on Olympics.Also u need to mention all the medals that Katerina Pelendritou has such an important personality for cypriot athletics.In general change you info to more news cause a lot of things added. 2A00:1358:E10A:C900:FC7F:4DDD:5A06:CFE2 (talk) 02:25, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
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Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 02:40, 5 January 2025 (UTC)