Misplaced Pages

Latest revision as of 14:02, 10 July 2024

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Ashleigh Barty article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed Article policies Neutral point of view No original research Verifiability

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1Auto-archiving period: 30 days

Ashleigh Barty has been listed as one of the Sports and recreation good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. Review: January 10, 2019. (Reviewed version).

This article is rated GA-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects:

Biography: Sports and Games This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Misplaced Pages's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography This article is supported by the sports and games work group (assessed as Mid-importance). Tennis High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Tennis, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles that relate to tennis on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TennisWikipedia:WikiProject TennisTemplate:WikiProject Tennistennis High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. Tennis To-do: edit history watch purge Here are some tasks awaiting attention: Cleanup : Take an item off the Cleanup listing Copyedit : Roger Federer, Leander Paes, Rafael Nadal, Justine Henin – to be used as examples for ideal page structures Expand : Grab a Start article and expand it, or peruse the List of articles. Photo : Add photos to Tennis or Tennis people articles Stubs : Bring a Stub up to our standards. Other : *Sign up as a member of the project. Tag more articles with our standard project template. Help with the creation of yearly main articles and drawsheets for every Open Era ATP and WTA tournament. Women's sport: Cricket / Tennis High‑importance This article is within the scope of WikiProject Women's sport (and women in sports), a WikiProject which aims to improve coverage of women in sports on Misplaced Pages. For more information, visit the project page, where you can join the project and/or contribute to the discussion.Women's sportWikipedia:WikiProject Women's sportTemplate:WikiProject Women's sportWomen's sport High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by the Women's cricket task force. This article is supported by the Women's tennis task force (assessed as High-importance). Australia: Queensland / Indigenous peoples High‑importance [REDACTED] Ashleigh Barty is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Misplaced Pages's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.AustraliaWikipedia:WikiProject AustraliaTemplate:WikiProject AustraliaAustralia High This article has been rated as High-importance on the project's importance scale. This article is supported by WikiProject Queensland (assessed as Low-importance). This article is supported by WikiProject Indigenous peoples of Australia (assessed as High-importance). Need help improving this article? Ask a Librarian at the National Library of Australia, or the State Library of Queensland. [REDACTED] The Wikimedia Australia chapter can be contacted via email to helpwikimedia.org.au for non-editorial assistance. Cricket Low‑importance This article is part of WikiProject Cricket which aims to expand and organise information better in articles related to the sport of cricket. Please participate by visiting the project and talk pages for more details.CricketWikipedia:WikiProject CricketTemplate:WikiProject Cricketcricket Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale. WikiProject Cricket To-do list: edit history watch purge Article assessment Check Category:Unassessed cricket articles for class and Category:Unknown-importance cricket articles for importance: see Assessment Department for details Verifiability Update fair and unfair play, fast bowling, first-class cricket, googly, innings, leg break, limited overs cricket, not out, Pakistan Cricket Board, spin bowling, underarm bowling, wicket, and other fundamental articles classified by the WikiProject as high-importance so that they meet WP:Verifiability policy standards Cleanup There is a toolserver based WikiProject Cricket cleanup list that automatically updates weekly to show all articles covered by this project which are marked with cleanup tags. (also available in one big list and in CSV format) Infoboxes Add infoboxes to the player articles found at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Cricket/requested infoboxes Cricket people Create articles about 19th century players who are listed in Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Cricket/19th century players Create biographies about Bangladeshi players from the task force redlink list Check the listing of key bios at Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Cricket/Key biographies and improve these to at least B-class. Create batting/bowling graphs for cricketers who have excelled in international cricket. Create articles for redlinks present here and here Cricket teams & countries Domestic cricket coverage is needed for Bangladesh, Canada, Kenya, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Zimbabwe; Create articles from redlinks and improve existing articles in List of current first-class cricket teams; National cricket teams; Under-19 national cricket teams Create articles about cricket in these missing countries Create or expand articles on international tours from items in Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Cricket/summary of international tour articles Create a link as such on Template:Cr-Aus/doc for Cricket Australia XI Images Add pictures (and remove template from address requests) in these Category:Misplaced Pages requested images of cricket people Add pictures for grounds missing photos from here On this day in cricket Expand the anniversary coverage for Portal:Cricket at Portal:Cricket/Anniversaries Umpires Expand ICC International umpire panel; ICC Elite referee panel; ICC Associates and Affiliates umpire panel Women Expand Women's cricket, Women's Test cricket and articles about women's cricket generally especially biographies and tours Update A number of lists need to be updated, can be found in Template:International cricketers and Template:National cricket captains Regularly updating cricketers' career stats. Other Export all cricket terms present in List of cricket terms to Wiktionary

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 2 times. The weeks in which this happened: July 4 to 10, 2021 January 23 to 29, 2022

Cricket career?

There is a total mismatch between the info on her cricket career in the 'Career Statistics' box and the narrative headed "Hiatus . . ." Cross Reference (talk) 17:44, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Someone had changed the headers from Women's National Cricket League to WLA and Women's Big Bash League to WT20. I put an in-between fix. It probably looked wrong because the Brisbane league matches don't count for the WT20 totals. Sportsfan77777 (talk) 18:55, 25 January 2022 (UTC)

Requested move 10 July 2021

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: (non-admin closure) NO CONSENSUS User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 00:58, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Despite the vote being more than 2-1 against a move, this is a "no consensus" close and not a "consensus not to move" close. Many of the votes are pure votes, and several of them make claims that are contrary to policy. There is no policy against using nicknames as a title if they are common names. However, there is no consensus whether Ashleigh or Ash is more commonly used in the news media. Regarding self-identification, while her Twitter account uses Ash, her ITF profile is Ashleigh, and opposers state that she would use a nickname there if she strongly preferred it. User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 00:58, 2 August 2021 (UTC) User:力 (power~enwiki, π, ν) 00:58, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Ashleigh Barty → Ash Barty – WP:COMMONNAME. News sources overwhelming refer to her as Ash Barty and she seems to refer to herself by that name on her social media. Park3r (talk) 14:15, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

• Voting in support for this. -- Tytrox (talk) 15:22, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
• Strongly oppose - official WTA website, Grand Slam entry lists and most reputable news sources (e.g. BBC, CNN, news.com.au) continue to use 'Ashleigh' rather than 'Ash'. F1lover22 talk 15:46, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
  • COMMENT Media are not consistent with her name. Although there's about 8 times more results of "Ashleigh Barty" than "Ash Barty", even if you include the term "tennis", they all use either variant. -- Tytrox (talk) 16:06, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose per F1lover22. We use official names from the WTA/ITF websites, unless the media has a clear preference for an alternative (which isn't the case here). Sportsfan77777 (talk) 16:43, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
• Weak oppose It is not like the case of Stan Wawrinka. At very least, more "Ashleigh Barty" were referred to her in terms of the Wimbledon win as far as I am concerned. Unnamelessness (talk) 17:17, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose. Redirect works just fine, no need to change. LH7605 (talk) 17:56, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose. Leave as is. There is no need to make diminutive here. Brudder Andrusha (talk) 18:02, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose: News sources do not "overwhelming"ly refer to her as "Ash", in fact it's 2:1 in the other direction—Google shows 10,000 which use "Ashleigh" in the title , vs 5000 which use "Ash" . —Somnifuguist (talk) 18:14, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose: the claim that news sources "overwhelmingly" refer to her as Ash is overwhelmingly false. Ashleigh is her name and she hasn't changed it anywhere. Ash is primarily a spoken diminutive of pretty much all people named Ashleigh. So nothing extra or unique is happening with her. --Loginnigol (talk) 18:31, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose - For now, there are more sources that use Ashleigh, and that is the official name at WTA and ITF events. --WEBDuB (talk) 18:33, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
• Strong Oppose: Ashleigh is her full name. It would be better just to make mention of it in the article, as with other nicknames --Inspector Semenych (talk) 19:11, 10 July 2021 (UTC)
• Strong Support: She refers to herself as Ash on her own twitter account, Fox Sports, ABC News, 9 WWOS (Official Wimbledon broadcaster in Australia), Sydney Morning Herald, Yahoo Sport, SBS, News.com.au, 7 News, The Guardian, Herald Sun, The New Daily, Sporting News, ESPN all call her "Ash". The list goes on. Should be changed according to WP:COMMONNAME. DiamondIIIXX (talk) 23:52, 10 July 2021 (UTC)

You need to compare the two names to show which is the common name. Just looking at one name is not a comparison. Hzh (talk) 12:43, 11 July 2021 (UTC)

• Comment. Yes, recentism, but would we be advised to wait and see what the post-Wimbledon and Olympics coverage does with her name? That may tip the scale on what her common name is. —C.Fred (talk) 01:46, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
• Support due to Barty's self-reference, primarily. WTA, Grand Slam, etc. is just a formality. —Jonny Nixon (talk) 02:34, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
• Support. We made a similar decision in the case of Dan Evans (or Daniel Evans, per the ATP/ITF). Rovingrobert (talk) 04:57, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
• 'Oppose. No evidence provided that Ash Barty is the common name, in fact Google Trends suggests Ashleigh Barty is the common name - . Hzh (talk) 12:38, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose per others { } 21:05, 11 July 2021 (UTC)
• Huge Oppose that's more of a nickname. Fyunck(click) (talk) 03:20, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose per above. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 05:54, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose leave as is. Her name is Ashleigh, the diminutive should not be the title of the article. Violette Martin (talk) 09:59, 12 July 2021 (UTC)
• Support 410k for Ash vs 73k for Ashleigh google hits on .com.au sites, where they are much more likely to use her preferred name in articles, rather than just what is in the official guidebook. Countering Somnifuguist's counts, when you restrict it to intitle and .com.au, there are 2800 for Ash and 700 for Ashleigh. It's not "just a nickname," it's literally her preferred name, as per her own social media sites. As per the guideline "Misplaced Pages does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title; it generally prefers the name that is most commonly used". The-Pope (talk) 16:00, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

  @The-Pope: The claim referred to news sources. My counts limit the search to Google's news tab, and "intitle:" ensures it's not just a passing mention. Without intitle it is 3.2:1.4 million Ashleigh:Ash. Your counts aren't limited to news sites, so any blog, forum, etc. is included, which is out of the scope of the initial claim. Limiting to .com.au sites does show that "Ash" is more commonly used in Australia, but that doesn't say much given that using nicknames for everyone (and especially sportspeople) is part of Australian culture. Misplaced Pages is a global encyclopedia, so we should use the 2:1 globally preferred name, not a locally favoured diminutive. It is not similar to Dan Evans mentioned above, where the diminutive is 2:1 preferred by global news sources . —Somnifuguist (talk) 18:13, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

  Something else. Her notability is directly related to her tennis prowess. She must register with the ITF in order to compete in any tennis event and she registers with her preferred spelling of her first name. It's her choice. She has registered under "Ashleigh Barty." It's what she wants to be called in her profession. She can change it if she wants with the ITF. Stanislaw Wawrinka went by Stanislaw for quite awhile but later changed his name in the ITF database to Stan. Misplaced Pages did likewise shortly thereafter. If Ashleigh wants to be known as "Ash" in tennis all she has to do is contact the ITF. Fyunck(click) (talk) 19:43, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

  Her notability is also directly related to her cricket prowess. She is on the cricket.com.au website as Ash. The-Pope (talk) 14:21, 13 July 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose for now: I have never heard her referred to as "Ash" (I've heard "Ashleigh" on news broadcasts and tennis commentaries). If she is routinely referred to as "Ash" later on, we can revisit this request. --Mirokado (talk) 18:53, 12 July 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose - "None" of her accomplishments (official tennis records) list her as "Ash"... also not WTA, Olympics, etc. I prefer to be known as "Arrrmondo"... with 3r's...Doesn't change my passport... Mjquinn_id (talk) 22:24, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

• Support I agree to change.

She is always reffered to as Ash Barty. You rarely hear her full name. User:14.200.53.228 – posted in the wrong Talk section; reposted by Rovingrobert (talk) 07:29, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose If she wanted to be known professionally as Ash Barty, she would've changed her name in her WTA and ITF profiles. 'Ash' is an informal nickname, which is said as often as 'Ashleigh' during her matches. Almost nobody says Daniel Evans or Cori Gauff anymore.--Narciso003 (talk) 22:46, 16 July 2021 (UTC)
• Weak support She is overwhelmingly referred to as just Ash Barty in the press, and she has made it plain that she prefers Ash to Ashleigh, as is the case with Stan Wawrinka, Coco Gauff, and Dan Evans. However: her name on the ITF and WTA website is still listed as Ashleigh Barty, so that throws a spanner into the works, somewhat. --Alexxbrookss (talk) 22:17, 18 July 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose We don't use nicknames in article titles. HiLo48 (talk) 10:23, 19 July 2021 (UTC)

• Tell that to Baby Face Nelson, to his face, I darz ya. Anyway, yes, nicknames are often use in titles, and in sports articles it's not uncommon. But for this one, Oppose, Ashleigh seems fine. Randy Kryn (talk) 10:39, 19 July 2021 (UTC)
• @HiLo48: Nicknames for article titles are certainly a thing. It's the reason why this discussion was raised.
• Joe Biden? Tony Abbott? Tim Cahill?  Bait30   22:32, 24 July 2021 (UTC)

• Strong support: Clear common name. The fact that the article has existed at the longer title for so long is incredulous. I'm surprised to see so many editors disagreeing, and being especially vague in their reasoning for doing so. Sean Stephens (talk) 00:51, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

• I'm amazed at how vague you are in saying Ash is the most common version of her name. It's incredulous to the rest of us. Fyunck(click) (talk) 04:10, 26 July 2021 (UTC)

Comment. I nominated the article for moving (and stand by that request). I strongly suspect, however, you'll find a geographic divide between those who oppose the move and those who support it. Australian media (Barty's home country) do indeed overwhelmingly refer to her as "Ash" (as does the athlete herself). Park3r (talk) 05:22, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

I also think it depends on informal vs formal. The Australian Open formally calls her Ashleigh as seen here, but has writers do more informal stories that use Ash, such as here. She has asked tennis authorities to use Asleigh, but she can always change her maind as Stan Wawrinka did. Fyunck(click) (talk) 05:55, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

I have had my say on this, I think WP:COMMONNAME is the governing policy here.Park3r (talk) 22:12, 28 July 2021 (UTC)

• Oppose: I'm not seeing that news sources overwhelmingly refer to her as Ash. The New York Times uses Ashleigh , Wall Street Journal uses Ashleigh , The Telegraph uses both , RTÉ uses Ashleigh , The Age uses Ash , Reuters uses Ash , Associated Press uses both , Nikkei uses both , Deutsche Welle uses Ashleigh .  Bait30   03:19, 26 July 2021 (UTC)
• Oppose. Her name first name Ashleigh as per WTA/ Tennis Australia. Tobyjamesaus (talk) 09:12, 28 July 2021 (UTC)
• Support. Subject appears to prefer "Ash" per social media profiles. Ivar the Boneful (talk) 05:30, 31 July 2021 (UTC)

Renaming, 2022 edition

Recent coverage, post-retirement seems heavily skewed towards calling her "Ash". The titling of this Misplaced Pages article is increasingly anachronistic. Furthermore, she has credited herself as Ash Barty in her November 2022-released memoir. Park3r (talk) 00:53, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

I have wondered why we stick with Barty's birth name "Ashleigh", rather than the more common "Ash". We do not have articles titled "Nicholas Kyrgios", "Rodney Laver", "Anthony Roche" or "Kenneth Rosewall"; Australia is known for applying hypocorisms as common names. An unscientific count at Google reveals "Ash Barty" has 1.8 million Ghits, whereas "Ashleigh Barty" has 1.1 million Ghits. WWGB (talk) 03:26, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Many participants in the previous move discussion from mid-2021 didn't seem to really take Misplaced Pages policy into account, as per the closing statement. I think that there was a strong split between Australian and non-Australian sources and voters. Now that she's retired, I suspect the sources are going to be more strongly skewed to Ash. Time to reopen? Park3r (talk) 03:35, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

But we also have to be careful with recentism. She became notable as Ashleigh Barty and she never changed her Tennis registration to anything but Ashleigh Barty. Does her drivers license say Ash? Do her checks? She's Australian yet her info/bio at he Australian Open says Ashleigh. Does someone have a copy of her wedding license from this past July? Those things are usually public records. Is she now going by Kissick? The governing bodies of tennis still use Ashleigh. We usually use the name they become notable under, like we do with Helen Wills. Fyunck(click) (talk) 04:15, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

I would be surprised if Ms Barty has ever signed a cheque, let alone a check. Such things are almost non-existent in Australia today. HiLo48 (talk) 08:45, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Considering all the kids who can't write in script at all, that's probably true for many items. Fyunck(click) (talk) 16:33, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

True, but especially for cheques in Australia. I'm old, and I haven't signed one for at least ten years. HiLo48 (talk) 21:18, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

Heck, I'm old and in the US and it's probably 10 years for me too (until today when I wrote out a check to the installers for a new central ac unit). Lot's of dust on the checkbook. Fyunck(click) (talk) 00:46, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Documents like a wedding certificate and a driver licence require legal names, not common names. Not relevant here. WWGB (talk) 04:20, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

This is true but there is common, as in how the press likes to call her to be more familiar, and there's common in how official and notable organizations call her. And she gained notability as a tennis player where she specifically told the ITF how she wanted her first name presented. Fyunck(click) (talk) 07:30, 9 December 2022 (UTC)

If we're using the name she wants to be known by as a criterion, her memoir uses "Ash Barty". Park3r (talk) 01:57, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

We are kidding ourselves if we think that tennis players control the name by which tennis authorities report them. I doubt that Evonne Goolagong Cawley wanted her name recorded as "Mrs R Cawley". WWGB (talk) 02:27, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Actually, you raise a good point. It looks like Evonne Goolagong Cawley may be mistitled as well. Is it a widespread phenomenon that WP:COMMONNAME is disregarded for female tennis players? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Park3r (talk • contribs) 04:36, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Tennis players DO control their names as written by tennis authorities. They must register with the ITF spelling they prefer. Stanislaw Warwinka registered with Stanislaw and later changed his ITF spelling to Stan. The registered name is what is used by the ITF/ATP/WTA for all events. Players can changed it for whatever reason they want, such as if they get married. That doesn't mean we always use the ITN registration as the Misplaced Pages title, but it helps with certain players. While she played professional and jr tennis she went with Ashleigh. Afterwards she seems to use Ash at least as much as Ashleigh. But if Martina Navratilova decides to change her name, the article is going to stay where it is now because of notability under Martina Navratilova. Fyunck(click) (talk) 08:03, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

• Misplaced Pages good articles
• Sports and recreation good articles
• Biography articles of living people
• GA-Class biography articles
• GA-Class biography (sports and games) articles
• Mid-importance biography (sports and games) articles
• Sports and games work group articles
• WikiProject Biography articles
• GA-Class tennis articles
• High-importance tennis articles
• WikiProject Tennis articles
• GA-Class Women's sport articles
• High-importance Women's sport articles
• GA-Class Women's cricket articles
• Women's cricket task force articles
• GA-Class Women's tennis articles
• High-importance Women's tennis articles
• Women's tennis task force articles
• WikiProject Women articles
• GA-Class Australia articles
• High-importance Australia articles
• GA-Class Queensland articles
• Low-importance Queensland articles
• WikiProject Queensland articles
• GA-Class Indigenous peoples of Australia articles
• High-importance Indigenous peoples of Australia articles
• WikiProject Indigenous peoples of Australia articles
• WikiProject Australia articles
• GA-Class cricket articles
• Low-importance cricket articles
• GA-Class cricket articles of Low-importance
• WikiProject Cricket articles
• Pages in the Misplaced Pages Top 25 Report