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Revision as of 01:57, 18 October 2019 editFlyer22 Frozen (talk | contribs)365,630 editsm →Recent changes to the lead: Adjust Doc's wording. I will be giving this editor one more warning, and that's it. Editor is causing issues across a number of medical articles that Doc has to revert the editor on, and now the editor is branching into another area. Just no.← Previous edit Latest revision as of 23:06, 20 January 2025 edit undoPARAKANYAA (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers45,320 edits →Semi-protected edit request on 19 December 2024: ReplyTag: Reply 
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== Suggestion for media portrayals ==

In Season 3, Episode 12 of "Scrubs" the character Dr. Kevin Casey appears and is shown suffering from OCD severely. He mentions the severity of his OCD causing him to drop out of school and repetitively spend all day reading medical textbooks, and generally his behavior is a very realistic version of the condition. At the end of the episode he first appears in, "My Catalyst," he is shown still in the operating theater for surgery washing his hands over and over again and becoming frustrated and distressed at his inability to stop himself from giving in. At the beginning he is shown walking inside the front door of the hospital several times as well.

For more about the character's compulsions I posit a link to his that talks about his condition more.

--] (]) 21:49, 10 August 2018 (UTC)


== Inaccurate history of OCD is presented == == Inaccurate history of OCD is presented ==
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Morbid fears and phobias have been mentioned in religious, philosophical and medical manuscripts since ancient times. Despite early insights by the Greeks, phobias did not appear as a separate clinical phenomenon in Western medicine until the 17th century and has evolved substantially since. However, robust investigations attempting to decipher the clinical nature of phobias emerged in pre-modern times during the oft-overlooked Islamic Golden Era (9th–12th centuries); which overlapped with Europe’s medieval period. An innovative attempt was made by the 9th century Muslim scholar, Abu Zayd al-Balkhi, in his medical manuscript “Sustenance of the Body and Soul,” to define phobias as a separate diagnostic entity. Al-Balkhi was one of the earliest to cluster psychological and physical symptoms of phobias under one category, “al-Fazaá”, and outline a specific management plan. We analyze al-Balkhi’s description of phobias, according to the modern understanding of psychiatric classifications and symptomatology as described in the DSM-5. Morbid fears and phobias have been mentioned in religious, philosophical and medical manuscripts since ancient times. Despite early insights by the Greeks, phobias did not appear as a separate clinical phenomenon in Western medicine until the 17th century and has evolved substantially since. However, robust investigations attempting to decipher the clinical nature of phobias emerged in pre-modern times during the oft-overlooked Islamic Golden Era (9th–12th centuries); which overlapped with Europe’s medieval period. An innovative attempt was made by the 9th century Muslim scholar, Abu Zayd al-Balkhi, in his medical manuscript “Sustenance of the Body and Soul,” to define phobias as a separate diagnostic entity. Al-Balkhi was one of the earliest to cluster psychological and physical symptoms of phobias under one category, “al-Fazaá”, and outline a specific management plan. We analyze al-Balkhi’s description of phobias, according to the modern understanding of psychiatric classifications and symptomatology as described in the DSM-5.


== Why is it worded like that? ==
⚫ == Semi-protected edit request on 20 November 2018 ==


Why is the first line of the article worded like this?
⚫ {{edit semi-protected|Obsessive–compulsive disorder|answered=yes}}
About the following sentence:
The relationship between the short and long allele of the 5-HTTLPR gene has been examined in OCD, and a meta analysis found that the S allele was associated with OCD in females only.


"a ] and ] ] in which (...)in which an individual has ] (an ''obsession'') and feels the need to perform '''certain routines''' (''compulsions'') repeatedly to relieve the distress caused by the obsession"
This meta-analysis does not show statistically that the S allele is associated to OCD in females. It shows there is no significance, only an observed trand. However, a meta-analysis is performed to find out if findings from multiple articles are robust enough when combined. Single articles could find significance due to chance or the experimental setup. A meta-analysis will find robust findings if they are not based on chance. When results from a meta-analysis are not significant, the variable (S allele) studied is therefore not correlated/associated enough with the disease (OCD). Therefore, I was wondering if you could remove this sentence from the OCD page.


OCD behaviours are not necessarily routines or rituals. And to put "compulsions" in parantheses afterwards seems to suggest that a compulsion, in this context, is synonymous with ritualistic behaviours.
Reference is the reference on the page: Mak, L; Streiner, DL; Steiner, M (June 2015). "Is serotonin transporter polymorphism (5-HTTLPR) allele status a predictor for obsessive-compulsive disorder? A meta-analysis". Archives of Women's Mental Health. 18 (3): 435–45. doi:10.1007/s00737-015-0526-z. PMID 25896187. ] (]) 16:57, 20 November 2018 (UTC)


I propose that the phrasing "feels the need to perform '''certain behaviours''' (''compulsions'') to relieve the distress caused by the obsession, often repeatedly" would be more accurate. There's nothing in the first section of this article that would tell me that compulsive behaviours can come in any form, and that they aren't always repetitive. ] (]) 15:17, 20 June 2024 (UTC)
:Yes, the abstract says "However, when stratified by sex, there is an emerging sex-specific relationship. There was a trending association between the S-allele and OCD status in females (Z = 1.62, p = 0.10) but not in males (Z = 0.69, p = 0.49)." So I'd agree that the sentence should either be removed or corrected. ] (]) 17:06, 20 November 2018 (UTC)
:] '''Done'''<!-- Template:ESp --> Removed, with no prejudice to a rewrite instead. ] (]) 19:36, 22 November 2018 (UTC)


== Semi-protected edit request on 16 December 2018 == == Semi-protected edit request on 1 December 2024 ==


{{edit semi-protected|Obsessive–compulsive disorder|answered=yes}} {{edit semi-protected|Obsessive–compulsive disorder|answered=yes}}
Please chng hoarding related to hoarding-related ] (]) 22:19, 16 December 2018 (UTC) Can I make edits to this page? ] (]) 09:05, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
:] '''Not done:''' this is not the right page to ] additional ]. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone may add them for you, or if you have ], you can wait until you are ] and edit the page yourself.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] (]) 09:34, 1 December 2024 (UTC)
:] '''Done'''<!-- Template:ESp --> – ] (]) 01:57, 17 December 2018 (UTC)


== Recent changes to the lead == == Hyphen in the title instead of an en dash ==


The title of this article currently uses an en dash between "Obsessive" and "compulsive". I believe this is incorrect and instead should be a standard hyphen, e.g., "Obsessive-compulsive disorder" rather than "Obsessive–compulsive disorder". I've looked up various sources on this:
], you need to discuss your changes because you are changing the context or meaning of some material. Keep in mind that this is a medical article, which is why ] has high standards. Why not just to stick to what the sources state? When reverting you , I stated that checking things repeatedly is not necessarily performing certain routines repeatedly. For example, a person with OCD might feel the need to repeatedly check for an email reply. But this doesn't mean that doing so is a routine for them. After all, that is just one email reply. Once the other person replies, that matter is over. The person with OCD might not communicate via emails enough for repeatedly checking emails to become a routine. You went back to changing the lead. You made it so that the lead states "the need to perform ] such as checking on the status of something (rituals)," which led ] to "checking on the status of something (rituals)." It's best to just leave the lead as it was and include "feel the need to check things repeatedly," just like we do in the infobox.


1. : '''Compounds consisting of words that are of equal weight are hyphenated: ''obsessive-compulsive, physician-patient relationship, mother-daughter bond''.'''
When you are reverted on something like this, don't just go back to tinkering with the lead, especially when an editor suggests that you discuss the matter on the talk page. Take it to the talk page and discuss. If you reply to me on this, I ask that you don't ping me. ] (]) 14:05, 8 March 2019 (UTC)
:It is important to be actively reading the sources when text is adjusted. ] (] · ] · ]) 14:13, 8 March 2019 (UTC)


2. ] spells the term '''obsessive-compulsive disorder'''.
== Semi-protected edit request on 31 May 2019 ==


3. also uses the term spelled with a hyphen.
{{edit semi-protected|Obsessive–compulsive disorder|answered=yes}}

Please change "A myth propagated by Sigmund Freud regarding above-average intelligence in OCD was recently refuted"
Maybe there's a reason it's done with an en dash? Otherwise, this is a suggested change I plan to implement in this article. ] (]) 21:32, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

to something more accurate eg,
⚫ == Semi-protected edit request on 19 December 2024 ==


⚫ {{Edit semi-protected|Obsessive–compulsive disorder|answered=yes}}
"There is evidence and a consensus among psychiatrists that people with OCD have a higher average intelligence quotient than the general population. However, a recent study has questioned this."
The photograph that is shown on this page of a man washing his hands is an example of OCD but this may lead to thinking that OCD is more related to actions rather when one visits[REDACTED] it should be more clear that not only action but repetition in thinking pattern is also OCD. The photograph shows more emphasis.. so it is better to not show this photograph or show multiple photographs ] (]) 17:19, 19 December 2024 (UTC)


:Yes, psychological and psychiatric conditions are not easily illustrated with photographs. ] (]) 17:26, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
Here is a large study that supports this opposing view:
:{{not done}}:<!-- Template:ESp --> While I agree that the article could do with a better illustration, I'm not convinced that the removal of what we already have is the way to go, unless {{u|Martinevans123}} agrees with you (I couldn't tell by their reply). ] (]) 11:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0160289616303324 ] (]) 20:36, 31 May 2019 (UTC)
::I'm not sure this image is better than none. It's a bit misleading. ] (]) 11:55, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
:] '''Not done:''' please establish a ] for this alteration ''']''' using the {{tlx|edit semi-protected}} template.<!-- Template:ESp --> ] (]) 16:21, 6 June 2019 (UTC)
:::{{Done}} If either of you can think of the most common obsessive and compulsive symptoms, please list them and I will try to create an illustration for the infobox. ] (]) 12:21, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::::I think we tend to fall into the trap of thinking "oh, there's an infobox, so it needs to have an image." ] (]) 12:27, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
::::This ], which has just been re-added, shows someone washing their hands. How does this single static image illustrate "Frequent and excessive hand washing "? Everyone washes their hands. Everyone knows what "washing your hands" looks like? What does the reader take away from this lead image... "ah, I see, people with OCD wash their hands"?? ] (]) 23:04, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
:::::I don't really see any issue with it, and I have OCD. It is the first thing that springs to mind for most people, and not necessarily an inaccurate one. Bit stereotypical but not really wrong. ] (]) 23:06, 20 January 2025 (UTC)

Latest revision as of 23:06, 20 January 2025

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Inaccurate history of OCD is presented

The article neglects to mention that the first clinical description of OCD was by Abu Zayd al-Balkhi in the 9th century work Sustenance of the Body and Soul.

For details, see "Obsessional Disorders in al-Balkhi′s 9th century treatise: Sustenance of the Body and Soul" published in the Journal of Affective Disorders, Volume 180, 15 July 2015, Pages 185-189.

I am including the abstract below:

Morbid fears and phobias have been mentioned in religious, philosophical and medical manuscripts since ancient times. Despite early insights by the Greeks, phobias did not appear as a separate clinical phenomenon in Western medicine until the 17th century and has evolved substantially since. However, robust investigations attempting to decipher the clinical nature of phobias emerged in pre-modern times during the oft-overlooked Islamic Golden Era (9th–12th centuries); which overlapped with Europe’s medieval period. An innovative attempt was made by the 9th century Muslim scholar, Abu Zayd al-Balkhi, in his medical manuscript “Sustenance of the Body and Soul,” to define phobias as a separate diagnostic entity. Al-Balkhi was one of the earliest to cluster psychological and physical symptoms of phobias under one category, “al-Fazaá”, and outline a specific management plan. We analyze al-Balkhi’s description of phobias, according to the modern understanding of psychiatric classifications and symptomatology as described in the DSM-5.

Why is it worded like that?

Why is the first line of the article worded like this?

"a mental and behavioral disorder in which (...)in which an individual has intrusive thoughts (an obsession) and feels the need to perform certain routines (compulsions) repeatedly to relieve the distress caused by the obsession"

OCD behaviours are not necessarily routines or rituals. And to put "compulsions" in parantheses afterwards seems to suggest that a compulsion, in this context, is synonymous with ritualistic behaviours.

I propose that the phrasing "feels the need to perform certain behaviours (compulsions) to relieve the distress caused by the obsession, often repeatedly" would be more accurate. There's nothing in the first section of this article that would tell me that compulsive behaviours can come in any form, and that they aren't always repetitive. Sjokolade1998 (talk) 15:17, 20 June 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 1 December 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Can I make edits to this page? Alyssaxmay (talk) 09:05, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

 Not done: this is not the right page to request additional user rights. You may reopen this request with the specific changes to be made and someone may add them for you, or if you have an account, you can wait until you are autoconfirmed and edit the page yourself. Cannolis (talk) 09:34, 1 December 2024 (UTC)

Hyphen in the title instead of an en dash

The title of this article currently uses an en dash between "Obsessive" and "compulsive". I believe this is incorrect and instead should be a standard hyphen, e.g., "Obsessive-compulsive disorder" rather than "Obsessive–compulsive disorder". I've looked up various sources on this:

1. Health Professions Institute: Compounds consisting of words that are of equal weight are hyphenated: obsessive-compulsive, physician-patient relationship, mother-daughter bond.

2. Merriam-Webster spells the term obsessive-compulsive disorder.

3. Psychiatry.org also uses the term spelled with a hyphen.

Maybe there's a reason it's done with an en dash? Otherwise, this is a suggested change I plan to implement in this article. Qreligious (talk) 21:32, 6 December 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 December 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

The photograph that is shown on this page of a man washing his hands is an example of OCD but this may lead to thinking that OCD is more related to actions rather when one visits[REDACTED] it should be more clear that not only action but repetition in thinking pattern is also OCD. The photograph shows more emphasis.. so it is better to not show this photograph or show multiple photographs Maverick 9828 (talk) 17:19, 19 December 2024 (UTC)

Yes, psychological and psychiatric conditions are not easily illustrated with photographs. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:26, 19 December 2024 (UTC)
 Not done: While I agree that the article could do with a better illustration, I'm not convinced that the removal of what we already have is the way to go, unless Martinevans123 agrees with you (I couldn't tell by their reply). M.Bitton (talk) 11:16, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
I'm not sure this image is better than none. It's a bit misleading. Martinevans123 (talk) 11:55, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
 Done If either of you can think of the most common obsessive and compulsive symptoms, please list them and I will try to create an illustration for the infobox. M.Bitton (talk) 12:21, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
I think we tend to fall into the trap of thinking "oh, there's an infobox, so it needs to have an image." Martinevans123 (talk) 12:27, 20 December 2024 (UTC)
This image, which has just been re-added, shows someone washing their hands. How does this single static image illustrate "Frequent and excessive hand washing "? Everyone washes their hands. Everyone knows what "washing your hands" looks like? What does the reader take away from this lead image... "ah, I see, people with OCD wash their hands"?? Martinevans123 (talk) 23:04, 21 December 2024 (UTC)
I don't really see any issue with it, and I have OCD. It is the first thing that springs to mind for most people, and not necessarily an inaccurate one. Bit stereotypical but not really wrong. PARAKANYAA (talk) 23:06, 20 January 2025 (UTC)
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