| Revision as of 12:59, 1 August 2020 editSlatersteven (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, New page reviewers, Pending changes reviewers73,771 edits →Bias against Alex Jones in this article← Previous edit |
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== "Invisible Empire: A New World Order Defined" listed at ] == |
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] |
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== Let's review, shall we? == |
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A discussion is taking place to address the redirect ]. The discussion will occur at ] until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. <!-- from Template:RFDNote --> ] <sub> ]</sub> 23:08, 29 July 2020 (UTC) |
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<!-- ] 08:59, 23 October 3239 (UTC) --> |
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== "Far-right" == |
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Let's review for our newly-arrived Infowars/Newswars/Prison Planet minions, shall we? Alex Jones claims that the US government kidnaps children and makes them slaves at our martian colony, that kids are only pretending to get shot at school and their parents are only pretending to grieve, that Michelle Obama is really a man, that Carrie Fisher of Star Wars fame was killed to boost DVD sales, that the coming New World Order is a demonic high-tech tyranny formed by satanist elites who are using selective breeding to create a supreme race, that tap water is turning frogs gay, that Coronavirus is a hoax, that 5G networks create Coronavirus within human cells (no explanation about the conflict between those last two), that Temple of Baal arches will be erected in multiple cities around the world Real Soon Now, that the Democratic party runs a pedophile ring through pizza shops, that the US government commits acts of terrorism against its own citizens, that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are ''literally'' demons from hell, that the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami were a government plot, that Obama wanted to detonate a nuclear bomb in Charleston, South Carolina, that FEMA runs concentration camps, that the US is being invaded by South American walruses... Sounds legit to me! --] (]) 12:46, 21 September 2020 (UTC) |
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:To be entirely correct, the frogs turning gay is (how funny it is) true. |
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This is the wrong term for Alex Jones' political views. I'm pretty sure you mean "Libertarian" ] (]) 16:47, 30 July 2020 (UTC) |
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:But not tap water, a type of water with a specific chemical in it. |
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:Read the FAQ please. ] <small><sup>(] - ])</sup></small> 16:50, 30 July 2020 (UTC) |
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:https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2842049/ |
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:https://niche-canada.org/2020/06/09/chemical-castration-white-genocide-and-male-extinction-in-rhetoric-of-endocrine-disruption/ |
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:https://muse.jhu.edu/article/885705 |
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:https://news.berkeley.edu/2010/03/01/frogs |
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:Frogs turning gay with a special type of water isn't as far out as you say it to be. (If there is any mention of this in the article I encourage an editor to edit this for '''misinformation'''.) ] (]) 06:02, 18 December 2023 (UTC) |
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::You have not read the article then? ] (]) 12:11, 18 December 2023 (UTC) |
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::I’m sorry, are you implying that “feminization of frogs” is the same as “turning frogs gay”? ] (]) 06:34, 5 April 2024 (UTC) |
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===Comments / questions=== |
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*'''Q: Isn't Jones just an actor playing a role without actually believing all of that?''' |
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I did, but you can't seem to fix it. Your "reliable" sources don't seem to be reliable at all considering that the man himself (Alex Jones) said he's libertarian. ] (]) 16:56, 30 July 2020 (UTC) |
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:A: It doesn't matter. Millions of people read his webpage, some believe it, and a tiny percentage go to Misplaced Pages to set us straight. --] (]) 12:46, 21 September 2020 (UTC) |
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:We use ], not self-descriptions. ] (]) 17:04, 30 July 2020 (UTC) |
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* I mean, we can certainly have this discussion. But you need to do it on the correct terms. You need reliable secondary sources that describe him as libertarian as opposed to far-right. He can be both, and not all libertarians are right. But this isn't something we discuss amongst ourselves and not something where we "take his word" for it. Everything on Misplaced Pages lives and dies according to the sources. ]] 19:39, 30 July 2020 (UTC) |
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*'''Q: Why doesn't this page cover the bit about gay frogs?''' |
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== Bias against Alex Jones in this article == |
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:A: We only cover those things Alex Jones says that have significant coverage in reliable sources. --] (]) 12:46, 21 September 2020 (UTC) |
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Far-right was bad enough but now Jones has suddenly acquired a new title "political extremist". |
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::Which has significant, reliable sources. More like youre cherry picking data to form a narrative. ] (]) 09:05, 15 February 2024 (UTC) |
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This kind of emotive political rhetoric is not appropriate for wikipedia. This is a topic of much debate, rather than something that can be assuredly put in the first descriptive sentence of Alex Jones'[REDACTED] article. |
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:::OK, so find some significant, reliable sources that cover this story. ] (]) 11:03, 15 February 2024 (UTC) |
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*'''Q: OK, all that other stuff is just silly, but the bit about South American walruses is real!''' |
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:A: No it isn't. --] (]) 12:46, 21 September 2020 (UTC) |
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Alex Jones is a very unusual character with a peculiar outlook on the world. He certainly leans right politically, but his views are quite idiosyncratic. They certainly do not align with typical far-right people or extremists who tend to be very closed minded and totalitarian. |
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But the gay frogs is pretty funny, you have to admit. ''']''' <small>(] - ])</small> 20:55, 10 October 2020 (UTC) |
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Jones displays many signs of lateral thinking, divergent thinking and open association in his thought. This is NOT how a natural conservative thinks. |
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This is explained quite well by psychologist Jordan Peterson in this clip: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zq1i4enQVDE (albeit about Russell Brand in this case but is quite similar if you listen to Alex Jones speaking). |
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: Here it is for anyone who has not experienced this special moment: |
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Direct quote (Dr Jordan B Peterson): "you are a very 'open' person, and you can tell because you think laterally. You have an idea, and this reminds you of a whole bunch of other ideas. And so you'll move laterally across ideas. A more conservative person will stay within the category. Your conversational style is marked by divergences. That is actually called divergent thinking, its a hall mark of creativity." |
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: It's like a turd sandwich with Misplaced Pages's ] page at the start, ''The Daily Mail'' at the end, and ] in the middle! --] (]) 21:24, 10 October 2020 (UTC) |
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::{{u|Guy Macon}}, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvf6gz58xnI ''']''' <small>(] - ])</small> 21:40, 10 October 2020 (UTC) |
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:::{{reply|JzG|Guy Macon}} On the subject of YouTube, we have a small bit about John Oliver's take on him with regard to his product shilling on-air, we do have some secondary sources, but would we want to have the primary source as well? —] • ] • ] 16:17, 6 August 2022 (UTC) |
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It's not possible to argue that the article is written from a neutral point of view. ] (]) 09:02, 19 July 2023 (UTC) |
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This explains why Alex Jones is a conspiracy theorist; because he is a very 'open' person (open to unusual thoughts and information). |
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:We go by what RS say. ] (]) 11:03, 19 July 2023 (UTC) |
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== Alex Jones Page == |
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Tarring him with the labels "far right" and "political extremist" are designed to defame him because these phrases hold many negative connotations. This is just cheap tactics from people who do not understand him and do not want to because they do not like his support for Republican ideals. |
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] (]) 23:17, 31 July 2020 (UTC) |
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:As {{u|Guy Macon}} says over at ]:<br/><blockquote>Let's review for our newly-arrived Infowars/Newswars/Prison Planet minions, shall we? Alex Jones claims that the US government kidnaps children and makes them slaves at our martian colony, that kids are only pretending to get shot at school and their parents are only pretending to grieve, that Michelle Obama is really a man, that Carrie Fisher of Star Wars fame was killed to boost DVD sales, that the coming New World Order is a demonic high-tech tyranny formed by satanist elites who are using selective breeding to create a supreme race, that tap water is turning frogs gay, that Temple of Baal arches will be erected in multiple cities around the world Real Soon Now, that the Democratic party runs a pedophile ring through pizza shops, that the US government commits acts of terrorism against its own citizens, that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are ''literally'' demons from hell, that the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami were a government plot, that Obama wanted to detonate a nuclear bomb in Charleston, South Carolina, that FEMA runs concentration camps... Sounds legit to me!</blockquote> |
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:{{ping|Gd123lbp}} To compare Alex Jones with Russell Brand without a source that explicitly makes that connection (aside from the intellectually dishonest ] issues) borders on a BLP violation against Brand. ] (]) 23:26, 31 July 2020 (UTC) |
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I think {{u|Guy Macon}} makes my point quite nicely about Alex Jones holding very idiosyncratic views that are not typical of the far right or extremists. Or even of the republican party (unless you can point out to me which of those things quoted is a republican value!) At no point have I defended any specific thing Alex Jones has said or InfoWars so that is just irrelevant. I was making a personal observation, not from a source, just watch any video of Alex Jones talking, you'll notice the same speech patterns and divergent thought just like Russell Brand. "far right" and "Political extremist" are certainly BLP violations against Jones! ] (]) 23:36, 31 July 2020 (UTC) |
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It says that Gary Allen wrote "None Dare Call it Treason." I believe this is incorrect. ] (]) 04:34, 25 February 2024 (UTC) |
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:]. At any rate, we cannot substitute our judgement for the sources, and there is no shortage of sources that call Jones an extremist: . - ] (]) |
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: Huh? "Treason" isn't used anywhere in the article, but ''None Dare Call it Conspiracy'' is, and that book is definitely written by Allen. ] (]) 09:11, 25 February 2024 (UTC) |
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== Ambiguity == |
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::], I have a serious question that I have always wanted someone who doesn't like our coverage of Jones to answer. In the above conversation MrOllie used the term ]. Notice how it is a link? Yet you appear to not bothered clicking the link or reading the page that the link leads to. It can't be that you don't know what a clickable link is; you inserted a link on your post. So why am I seeing responses that appear to show that you have never read ]? Is there some way that simply putting '''"]"''' in a reply isn't reaching you? Is there some way we can do better? --] (]) 00:13, 1 August 2020 (UTC) |
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Is it just me or is this sentence confusingly ambiguous? "In January 2013, Jones was invited to speak on Piers Morgan's CNN show after promoting an online petition to deport Morgan because of his support of gun control." I presume it's Jones' support of gun control, not Morgan's? |
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::OK, do you believe that NASA is shipping children to a slave colony on Mars, that lizard people control the government, and that the Democrat party (and a pizza restaurant) is a front for satanic child molesters? Or , do you think these are not extremist -- but normal Republican ideals? ] (]) 00:19, 1 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:I saw Jordan Peterson, a YouTube link, and Russell Brand and then I questioned whether I should keep reading. You need a much better argument, one that relates to Misplaced Pages’s content policies in some way, to even remotely start convincing people. Aside from that, I’m not sure calling Alex Jones the peak of lateral thinking and human enlightenment would be the hill I‘d want to die on if I were you. I mean, his defence in a legal suit against him was that he was playing “a character”. ] (]) 00:22, 1 August 2020 (UTC) |
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Assuming I'm correct, I suggest "In January 2013, because of his support of gun control, Jones was invited to speak on Piers Morgan's CNN show after promoting an online petition to deport Morgan." --] (]) 02:21, 9 June 2024 (UTC) |
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I read the link and have already responded regarding it. |
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Also, what do you mean by "our" coverage of Alex Jones? Are you in a group of people with an agenda? ] (]) 00:24, 1 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:Wow, go read ] until you understand what's wrong with that question. That sort of paranoid assumption doesn't combine well with trying to whitewash this article. ] (]) 00:29, 1 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:{{fixed}} in ]. I've changed it to {{xt|"In January 2013, Jones was invited to speak on ]'s CNN show after promoting an online petition to deport him for supporting ]."}} The states: {{xt|"Jones is a main supporter of a petition on the White House citizen input website that calls for the deportation of British citizen Morgan because of his continued calls for gun-control legislation."}} In contrast, the ] describes Jones as a {{xt|"vocal ] advocate"}}, which places Jones in opposition to gun control. — ''''']''' <small>]</small>'' 05:42, 9 June 2024 (UTC) |
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::Got it. Not going to get a straight answer from Gd123lbp. A shame, really; it is possible for people who strongly disagree with each other to have a friendly and open conversation about why they believe what they believe. |
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::Alex Jones describes himself as "Libertarian" but there is a good reason why reliable sources describe him as "far-right" instead. Conspiracy theorists such as Alex Jones believe that the government is dishonest, all-powerful, and fiendishly clever. Libertarians generally believe that the government dishonest, incompetent, and dumber than a bag of rocks that the other rocks make fun of for being so stupid. |
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::Alex Jones' conspiracy theories requires that a large number of individuals coordinate to uphold a common lie, with nobody spilling the beans and no leaked evidence to uncover the truth. This is despite the overwhelming financial incentive for news outlets to uncover and expose government conspiracies. Libertarian note that the federal government isn't even able to keep the president's (pick your favorite) sexual activities secret. Libertarianism is not about screaming at the audience about gay frogs. Libertarianism is a political philosophy concerning the proper use of government force, with a serious and lengthy intellectual pedigree. You can disagree with Libertarians -- many do -- but they are clearly not crazy or putting on an act for ratings. --] (]) 00:42, 1 August 2020 (UTC) |
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You'll do better by giving that a read as well judging by how extremely patronising you have been. ] (]) 00:43, 1 August 2020 (UTC) |
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YOUR ARTICLE ABOUT ALEX JONES IS CRASSLY BIASED AGAINST THAT PERSON AND VERY OBVIOUSLY WRITTEN FROM THE EXTREME-LEFT POLITICAL VIEWPOINT. EVERYONE ALREADY KNOWS THE TRUTH ABOUT LEFT-WING FAKE NEWS AND THE CONSTANT ATTEMPTS BY EXTREME-LEFT POLITICAL GROUPS TO MISLABEL ANYONE WHO OPPOSES THEM. THE SIGHT OF SUCH FALSEHOODS HERE TELLS US THAT[REDACTED] IS AN EXTREME-LEFT-WING POLITICAL ORGANIZATION. I KNOW YOU ARE BASED IN EXTREME-FAR-OUT-LUNATIC-LEFT SAN FRANCISCO -- BUT THAT IS NO EXCUSE FOR ALLOWING A POLITICAL SMEAR CAMPAIGN ON YOUR PAGES. |
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Guy Macon - If Jones is "crazy or putting on an act for ratings" then it is incorrect to call him a genuine far right person or political extremist who seriously holds those political views. ] (]) 00:49, 1 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:{{ping|Gd123lbp}} I'm assuming you're here in good faith, I just think you're misguided and wrong. ] (]) 00:50, 1 August 2020 (UTC) |
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::Anyone who ''doesn't'' think that Boris Johnson, Jeremy Corbyn, Donald Trump, and Joe Biden are "putting on an act for ratings" simply isn't paying attention. --] (]) 12:13, 1 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:WE go with what RS say, not what we think (yes by the way I think it is an act, but I am not an RS).] (]) 12:52, 1 August 2020 (UTC) |
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PLEASE EDIT THE ARTICLE ABOUT ALEX JONES UNTIL IT IS NEUTRAL AND NON-POLITICAL. YES YOU CAN REPORT ABOUT POLITICS WITHOUT BEING POLITICAL. ] (]) 06:44, 27 July 2024 (UTC) |
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FYI the OP is someone that thinks ] is a . ] (]) 12:56, 1 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:So?] (]) 12:59, 1 August 2020 (UTC) |
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:{{Not done}} Shouting nonsense, no implementable changes suggested. ] (]) 06:49, 27 July 2024 (UTC) |
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::lol ] (]) 02:31, 31 July 2024 (UTC) |
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:::You actually have to tell us what to change, as in "!C Hange chees to milk", not make vague assertions. ] (]) 10:08, 31 July 2024 (UTC) |
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:The main problem with this page is that Alex Jone's criticisms are simplified and dumbed down. Robbie Parker was not mentioned at all, even though Alex Jones mentioned he was laughing before and was clearly reciting a script. ] (]) 07:01, 12 August 2024 (UTC) |
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:He's not wrong though,[REDACTED] kind of has a monopoly over cheap information. ] (]) 07:07, 12 August 2024 (UTC) |
Let's review for our newly-arrived Infowars/Newswars/Prison Planet minions, shall we? Alex Jones claims that the US government kidnaps children and makes them slaves at our martian colony, that kids are only pretending to get shot at school and their parents are only pretending to grieve, that Michelle Obama is really a man, that Carrie Fisher of Star Wars fame was killed to boost DVD sales, that the coming New World Order is a demonic high-tech tyranny formed by satanist elites who are using selective breeding to create a supreme race, that tap water is turning frogs gay, that Coronavirus is a hoax, that 5G networks create Coronavirus within human cells (no explanation about the conflict between those last two), that Temple of Baal arches will be erected in multiple cities around the world Real Soon Now, that the Democratic party runs a pedophile ring through pizza shops, that the US government commits acts of terrorism against its own citizens, that Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton are literally demons from hell, that the 2004 Indian Ocean earthquake and tsunami were a government plot, that Obama wanted to detonate a nuclear bomb in Charleston, South Carolina, that FEMA runs concentration camps, that the US is being invaded by South American walruses... Sounds legit to me! --Guy Macon (talk) 12:46, 21 September 2020 (UTC)
Is it just me or is this sentence confusingly ambiguous? "In January 2013, Jones was invited to speak on Piers Morgan's CNN show after promoting an online petition to deport Morgan because of his support of gun control." I presume it's Jones' support of gun control, not Morgan's?
Assuming I'm correct, I suggest "In January 2013, because of his support of gun control, Jones was invited to speak on Piers Morgan's CNN show after promoting an online petition to deport Morgan." --Annihilannic (talk) 02:21, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
YOUR ARTICLE ABOUT ALEX JONES IS CRASSLY BIASED AGAINST THAT PERSON AND VERY OBVIOUSLY WRITTEN FROM THE EXTREME-LEFT POLITICAL VIEWPOINT. EVERYONE ALREADY KNOWS THE TRUTH ABOUT LEFT-WING FAKE NEWS AND THE CONSTANT ATTEMPTS BY EXTREME-LEFT POLITICAL GROUPS TO MISLABEL ANYONE WHO OPPOSES THEM. THE SIGHT OF SUCH FALSEHOODS HERE TELLS US THAT[REDACTED] IS AN EXTREME-LEFT-WING POLITICAL ORGANIZATION. I KNOW YOU ARE BASED IN EXTREME-FAR-OUT-LUNATIC-LEFT SAN FRANCISCO -- BUT THAT IS NO EXCUSE FOR ALLOWING A POLITICAL SMEAR CAMPAIGN ON YOUR PAGES.
PLEASE EDIT THE ARTICLE ABOUT ALEX JONES UNTIL IT IS NEUTRAL AND NON-POLITICAL. YES YOU CAN REPORT ABOUT POLITICS WITHOUT BEING POLITICAL. T1R2U3T4H (talk) 06:44, 27 July 2024 (UTC)
view · edit Frequently asked questions
level-5 vital article is rated C-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale.
Fixed in Special:Diff/1228047042. I've changed it to "In January 2013, Jones was invited to speak on Piers Morgan's CNN show after promoting an online petition to deport him for supporting gun control." The cited Christian Science Monitor article states: "Jones is a main supporter of a petition on the White House citizen input website that calls for the deportation of British citizen Morgan because of his continued calls for gun-control legislation." In contrast, the "Gun rights" section describes Jones as a "vocal gun rights advocate", which places Jones in opposition to gun control. — Newslinger talk 05:42, 9 June 2024 (UTC)
![[REDACTED]](https://u3vuiephb.global.ssl.fastly.net/File:Aristarchos_logo_small.png){kind=link}
Not done Shouting nonsense, no implementable changes suggested. Theroadislong (talk) 06:49, 27 July 2024 (UTC)