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A news item involving Alexei Navalny was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the In the news section on the following dates: 19 July 2013 21 August 2020 24 January 2021 21 October 2021

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A news item involving Alexei Navalny was featured on Misplaced Pages's Main Page in the In the news section on 16 February 2024.

[REDACTED]

On 29 August 2021, it was proposed that this article be moved to Alexey Navalny. The result of the discussion was not moved.

Nationalist

The introduction should read "Alexey Navalny is a Russian nationalist, opposition politician..." and the rest of the article should stay the same for now. 2A02:3030:809:18F2:1:0:F5D1:5C30 (talk) 22:04, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

He is not notable for being a nationalist, so no. Mellk (talk) 22:07, 22 August 2023 (UTC)

According to who? Brusquedandelion (talk) 05:19, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Please correct the obviously wrong date?

> On 27 January 2021, Navalny was again arrested as he was returning to Russia

It was 17 January 2021, exactly 3 years ago, as even indirectly mentioned elsewhere in the page. How do such obvious typos make it through? 185.147.238.3 (talk) 12:34, 17 January 2024 (UTC)

 Done. FPTI (talk) 14:53, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 16 February 2024

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Change “navalny is” to “Navalny was”, Russian state penetentiary announced his death. 2601:98A:D82:BE0:3125:D7D0:F57B:85B8 (talk) 11:34, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

 Done seemingly. There may be a few stray "is"es, but the one in the lead is changed. ―Justin (koavf)❤T☮C☺M☯ 12:13, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

New article created Death of Alexei Navalny

A new article created recently may be of interest, and has been linked to in the "Death" section - Death of Alexei Navalny. - Fuzheado | Talk 13:58, 16 February 2024 (UTC)

"Opposition Leader"

Where do people get this nonsense from?

He was a notable politician, but he was never the opposition leader. His parties have never been that big. 71.173.16.179 (talk) 00:10, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Agree with this. The largest opposition party, as such, in Russia, is the Russian Communist Party, which Navalny is not exactly a friend of. Brusquedandelion (talk) 05:18, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Are there any reliable Russian or non-Western sources claiming him to be the opposition leader? Otherwise the article comes off blatantly pro-Western. BinaryBrainBug (talk) 19:27, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Didn't see it is a instead the opposition leader. Still my point on bias stands. BinaryBrainBug (talk) 19:40, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

In this case, the opposition refers to anti-Putin opposition. CPRF and other such parties in general are not anti-Putin (there may only be a few members who criticize Putin to some degree or indirectly). As a result, there is no doubt that Navalny was one of the leaders of the anti-Putin opposition. This type of opposition is persecuted in the country. Mellk (talk) 11:37, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Censorship on immigration

Why is there censorship over the fact that Navalny had made videos where he compared Muslim immigrants in North Caucasus as “cockroaches” and also dresses up as a dentist and compares immigrants with cavities that need to be removed? It's not like he ever denounced those sick videos and later still refused to denounce them when asked about it. It's disappointing to see the important finer details be censored, and seems more political and not impartial to hide such vital historical info in Misplaced Pages. This article shouldn't become a biased PR article that hides those actions in the past. Is it some white privilege where one can call immigrants as cavities and cockroaches and yet not have this mentioned at all on his page?

a 2007 video in which Navalny rails against “cockroaches” while images of apparently Muslim men were flashed on screen. He then goes on to “shoot” an actor playing an attacker who seemed to be wearing traditional Muslim clothing. Jung said: “Let’s be very clear, he advocated shooting dead Muslims.” In another video, Navalny dressed as a dentist, appearing to compare immigrants to rotten teeth.

49.186.84.166 (talk) 09:24, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

The evolution of his views on immigration is covered in the relevant section. There is no need to describe one 17-years old video in such detail. Alaexis_¿question? 13:04, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Yes and no. When obituaries are published it gives a useful check on WP:DUE (and WP:BALASP). Here's what our article says (I think it's worth giving the full text to get the full flavour): In 2007, he released several anti-immigration videos, including one where he advocated the deportation of migrants. According to Leonid Volkov, Navalny later regretted making the 2007 video. In 2013, after ethnic riots in a Moscow district took place, which were sparked by a murder committed by a migrant, Navalny sympathised with the anti-immigration movement and commented that ethnic tensions and crimes are inevitable because of failing immigration policies by the state. However, he later said that "The basis of my approach is that you have to communicate with nationalists and educate them... I think it's very important to explain to them that the problem of illegal immigration is not solved by beating up migrants but by other, democratic means". In a 2017 interview, Navalny declared support for regulated immigration from Central Asia, but did not see it as valuable. In a 2020 interview, he reiterated support for regulated immigration. In 2021, Alexander Verkhovskiy said that Navalny's statements on immigration were 'a long time ago' and that he was a 'different man'.

Here's how the Financial Times obituary covers the same subject: Critics have pointed to his nationalist views and statements against immigrants made early in his political career, for which he was expelled from Yabloko. For years he attended and spoke at an annual far-right nationalist rally, and he later steadfastly refused to denounce a video in which he compared people from Russia’s mostly Muslim North Caucasus with “cockroaches” and mimicked shooting one with a pistol.

Here's what the The Guardian's obituary says (in totality): Navalny started to move gradually to the right, and in 2007 he was expelled from Yabloko after clashing with Yavlinsky over Navalny’s increasingly nationalist and anti-immigrant views.

Here's The Hill yesterday: He is later expelled from Yabloko after attending an ultranationalist, anti-immigration protest. Navalny is known to have anti-immigrant views.

And the Foreign Policy obit: In 2007, he was ejected from the liberal Yabloko party for attending the Russian March, an annual demonstration of far-right and ultranationalist groups. Briefly establishing his own party, Narod (“people”), Navalny released YouTube videos in which he likened Islamic militants to cockroaches, called for the deportation of immigrant workers, and vowed to defend the rights of ethnic Russians in Russia. While calls for greater immigration controls remained part of his platform, Navalny’s use of more extreme rhetoric seems to have peaked in the late 2000s. More charitable interpretations have suggested that as liberal parties struggled to gain ground, Navalny looked to nationalism as a mobilizing force. As later noted by Al Jazeera, his remarks came as nationalist sentiment was surging in Russia—and so too were hate crimes, with more than 100 people killed in racially motivated attacks in 2008. His overtures toward nationalism haunted him for the remainder of his career—causing Amnesty International to revoke his “prisoner of conscience” status in 2021. At the same time, Navalny did little to disavow his past remarks. “My idea is that you have to communicate with nationalists and educate them,” he told the Polish journalist Adam Michnik in 2015.

The flavour of our piece is "he changed" or "he didn't really mean it". That's not what I'm picking up from the RS obits which is either silent on change (and therefore conveys a sense that there was no change) or like the FT explicitly that he didn't resile from those earlier views. Is what we say WP:UNDUE? I suspect so. DeCausa (talk) 19:39, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Well, there are also obituaries that don't mention his anti-immigration stance at all The Washington Post NPR reflecting its relative insignificance. The treatment of the issue in the Guardian and the Hill is also rather brief. Alaexis_¿question? 22:22, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

It's not so much the extent of the mention, it's the theme. We're presenting it by reference to the opinion of two individuals that he changed. That's the bit I think doesn't meet WP:DUE. As far as I can see the sources, generally, see to indicate that he didn't resile these exreme views. DeCausa (talk) 22:32, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Verkhovskiy's opinion might not be due, I agree. Btw the wikilink is wrong, it's ru:Верховский, Александр Маркович and not Alexander Verkhovskiy. Alaexis_¿question? 22:39, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

These statements have received plenty of coverage. There's absolutely no reason to scrub any mention of it. Dylanvt (talk) 05:07, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Why do you think those specific sources not mentioning this fact about Navalny indicates the fact itself is not important, and not that the source believes such facts should be marginalized? Also, why do you think only obituaries are worthwhile sources of information on a person's life? The editorial concerns of someone writing an obituary vs. someone writing a biography (whether on Misplaced Pages or elsewhere) are necessarily different. Brusquedandelion (talk) 09:29, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Why is the fact that it was 17 years ago relevant here? Misplaced Pages biographies cover events throughout a person's life. Is there some magical number of years before which point a person's statements are excluded from mention on Misplaced Pages? Brusquedandelion (talk) 09:26, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

I agree, this is bizarre. Why can't the incident be mentioned in the Yabloko section? This seems a basic WP:NOTCENSORED issue. Navalny made the comparison and refused to apologize for it — there's no way mentioning those two basic historical facts should be controversial. CarmenEsparzaAmoux (talk) 02:53, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

What is bizarre about it? The weight we're giving to this incident is in line with the weight that reliable sources give. Looking at the obituaries, some of them give zero weight and most of them give very little weight. Alaexis_¿question? 08:54, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

The issue is that we do cover it in fact - but we cover it differently than the RS. We have a section on "Immigration" which has one sentence on the videos followed by 6 sentences excusing/minimising them. That's not how the RS have treated it when they do report the issue. DeCausa (talk) 09:02, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

The replies to the original criticism of Navalny are white-washing. It is obviously nonsense to exclude hateful comments based on their age when profiling a major political figure. More importantly its is dishonest. Amnesty International , in 2021, removed him from its list of POCs based on the old comments. Is 2021 too old? Is Amnesty ignorable? It is also highly disingenuous to say that his highly controversial comments should be tucked away under a paragraph headed "immigration". This doesn't look like a 'mistake', it looks like careful writing PR writing. Other figures similar to Navalny would have an entire section labelled "Controversies". The problem with this article isn't about Navalny, it's about the credibility of Misplaced Pages. It looks like people favourable to Navalny who are professionals at political PR are writing the article. That totally undermines the credibility of Misplaced Pages. Furthermore comments here in Talk such as "some of them give zero weight and most of them give very little weight" are highly opinionated. Obviously its easy, in the context of the Ukraine conflict, to find dozens of major, right-wing news outlets that support Navalnay unconditionally. That is not evidence. Using selected propaganda outlets to justify propaganda is not what[REDACTED] is supposed to be about. People organising the PR on this page should be banned from wikipedia,. Felimy (talk) 10:05, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

If you're going to comment so stridently you need to get your facts right. As has already been pointed out on this page, Amnesty restored his PoC status a few weeks after removing it and apologised to him.. Per WP:CRITS, "Avoid sections and articles focusing on criticisms or controversies... the article structure must protect neutrality. Sections within an article dedicated to negative criticisms are normally also discouraged." Our WP:DUE policy requires us to "fairly represent all significant viewpoints that have been published by reliable sources, in proportion to the prominence of each viewpoint in those sources." Hence, your statement that it is "easy, in the context of the Ukraine conflict, to find dozens of major, right-wing news outlets that support Navalnay unconditionally" seems to support the article as it stands. To make a meaningful criticism you need to actually present evidence (with links) to WP:RS media which shows that there are "dozens" more with the opposite point of view (and if you can't do that that shows it currently has the right balance). But that requires research and effort rather than just tossing out opinion. DeCausa (talk) 10:27, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

In my opinion, it would be beneficial to include a brief reference to the topic (Criticism of Amnesty International#Alexei Navalny). This is particularly relevant given the frequent mentions of Amnesty International throughout the article. Including this could provide a more comprehensive and balanced perspective. BinaryBrainBug (talk) 10:50, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Amnesty International restored the status several months later (February -> May), not just a few weeks, as per your source. And their reasoning might be noteworthy in the context of this discussion, because they made a point about distancing themselves from his political views. Quoting your source:

"But in a new statement on Friday the organisation apologised and said their decision had been used to "further violate Navalny's rights" in Russia."

" "Some of Navalny's previous statements are reprehensible and we do not condone them in the slightest," it went on."

" "By confirming Navalny's status as prisoner of conscience, we are not endorsing his political programme, but are highlighting the urgent need for his rights, including access to independent medical care, to be recognised and acted upon by the Russian authorities.""

It has a bit of a "even a criminal should have the right to have a defender in a court trial against them" type of vibe. I mean, I agree with them on that one, but it's not like Amnesty International just brushed his problematic statements off, pretending that they didn't happen or that they weren't problematic.

I think, the issue here is that Navalny never distanced himself from those statements, even after being asked to. That's probably why people feel like those statements shouldn't be trivialized. As far as I've heard (but that's definitely anecdotal evidence), those statements actually drove some supporters away from him and they stopped seeing him as an actual alternative to Putin. Nakonana (talk) 13:57, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

The issue of cockroaches is extensively dealt with in first-class sources. There is no reason to omit it in the article, it is a factual description of what is seen in the video. Mhorg (talk) 13:55, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

The removal of the prisoner of conscience status came after a lobbying campaign by pro-Kremlin accounts on social media including following a post by an RT contributor Katya Kazbek. See for example this. Mellk (talk) 16:18, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

It is not clear what this has to do with the fact that Amnesty actually removed the POC designation. There is an abundance of sources. Mhorg (talk) 16:24, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

This is just context for the decision. Mellk (talk) 16:26, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

All of this is an issue for the Amnesty article not this one. Apart from a few weeks in 2021 when Amnesty withdrew it then restored it with an apology he had PoC status. The ins and outs of it why it was withdrawn and restored (much of which appears to be WP:OR speculation) is pretty irrelevant here. DeCausa (talk) 16:30, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

It's not wp:or. The reasons for restoring the status are explicitly stated in your own source by Amnesty International representatives. And given that it comes of as "we are restoring his status, but..." I wouldn't call it irrelevant. Why should that only be included in the Amnesty article? The decisions were concerning Navalny and could have had a significant impact on how he would be perceived and supported in the future, so why should it not be in this article? And as you might have noticed, there are several threads here on this talk page that raise the issue that his nationalistic views are not represented properly in the article, so it seems that people do think that those things are relevant and that they belong in the article about Navalny. Nakonana (talk) 16:39, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

I repeat my post below. Exactly what text are you proposing to be changed with what sourcing? DeCausa (talk) 16:54, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

That may be correct, but it doesn't change the fact that he made those statements, that there are blog posts and opinion pieces in newspapers (?) that say that it drove supporters away, and that AI made sure to distance themselves from his political views while restoring his status. Nakonana (talk) 16:26, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

What (with sourcing) are you proposing should be changed? DeCausa (talk) 16:31, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

• This content belongs only to the section about his views on immigration. However, his views about this have evolved. There is no need to describe this evolution in all details because this page is already too big. It is enough only to describe his most recent views on this subject by using most recent sources. But I think his views on the immigration probably do not belong to this page at all because he was just an anti-corruption activist, not a politician whose view could influence the immigration policies of Russia. My very best wishes (talk) 17:15, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

2 Death Sections

One of them should be removed but i am not sure which one should be the one. Multiverse Union (talk) 16:45, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Death

Unless this article has access first-hand accounts, might not the statement read: According to unconfirmed reports, prior to his death, Navalny had been treated in hospital after complaining of malnourishment and other ailments "due to mistreatment in the prison"? 95.147.153.118 (talk) 21:55, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

Voice sample

I propose changing the sample of Navalny´s voice to the recording of his statement of encouragement to the Russian people that plays at the end of Navalny the documentary. Timmytim6912 (talk) 23:55, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

It depends on whether the voice sample you mention is protected by copyright. If it is, it can’t be uploaded to Misplaced Pages. Slamforeman (talk) 03:34, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

"prisoner of conscience" status

Per Al Jazeera, Amnesty International revoked Navalny's "Prisoner of conscious" status based on past "hate speech." Please edit the intro of this article to reflect that. It is misleading to mention that the status was conferred without mentioning that it was later revoked. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/2/24/amnesty-strips-navalny-of-prisoner-of-conscience-status?_gl=1*kjsppi*_ga*cXEtUjBXeVJBdjA5Q0FXaE9HTDl3X0pCVHZPUXVQLVRWN3lHLXVUb2ZVWkdybTVpV09zOWZUOGpuNV9saHJ5bw.. RoseIsEros (talk) 01:00, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

No, it was confirmed after being revoked apparently by mistake . My very best wishes (talk) 02:41, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

There are sources describing how he was deprived of POC and how he was given it back. So these steps must be described in the article. Mhorg (talk) 13:51, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

No they should not because this is mostly a controversy about Amnesty itself, and it is described already on that page, see Amnesty_International#2021_alteration_of_Alexei_Navalny's_status. But this story is probably given undue weight even on the page about Amnesty. My very best wishes (talk) 17:07, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

No mention of Chechen cockroaches?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

It's not credible that there is no mention of Navalny's comment about Chechen cockroaches. In the context of Putin's brutal war against Chechens and especially Navalynys recent conversion to anti Russian imperialism, it is highly significant. Furthermore, though the comments are old, Amnesty International removed Navalny from its list of prisoners of conscience recently (2021?) on the basis of these statements. It is ridiculous that the article would not mention a highly credible international human rights organisation like Amnesty. My comment is not about Navalny, its about wikipedia. This article looks like it has been written by PR people close to Navalny. It reinforces the global image of[REDACTED] as absolutely unreliable on major political topics, especially where US interests are involved. The purpose of[REDACTED] is to provide fair factual information, not to add to the sea of propaganda on social media. This article falls far below that standard. Felimy (talk) 09:45, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Removed unsourced paragraph

I removed the following paragraph because it had two sourcing problems: "In early 2012, Navalny stated on Ukrainian TV, "Russian foreign policy should be maximally directed at integration with Ukraine and Belarus ... In fact, we are one nation. We should enhance integration". During the same broadcast Navalny said "No one wants to make an attempt to limit Ukraine's sovereignty"."

The Eastbook source is defunct. The other source is in Russian and provides no verifiable origin for the claim. It doesn't say when it was broadcast, on what channel or station, on what program, etc. Siberian Husky (talk) 13:10, 18 February 2024 (UTC) Siberian Husky (talk) 13:10, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

I reinstated the section because both sources are still available in their archived versions. The section should stay until a consensus on the quality of the sources is reached. JackTheSecond (talk) 16:06, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

One could add the Washington Post for reliability: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/10/27/navalny-ukraine-putin-russia/ Nakonana (talk) 16:20, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

There are other sources that reference those or similar remarks. If I remember correctly:

- Alexei Navalny: a genuine alternative to Vladimir Putin? https://www.ft.com/content/16df421e-72c1-11e7-aca6-c6bd07df1a3c

- https://unherd.com/newsroom/alexei-navalny-is-no-liberal-hero/

- https://mycountryeurope.com/opinions/alexei-navalny-fake-champion-russian-democracy/

- https://www.euronews.com/2023/07/07/racist-or-revolutionary-is-alexei-navalny-who-many-westerners-think-he-is

- https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/alexei-navalny-is-a-russian-nationalist-but-he-may-still-be-good-news-for-ukraine/ Nakonana (talk) 16:07, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Further discussion is taking place at Talk:Alexei Navalny#Censorship on immigration up above also. JackTheSecond (talk) 16:07, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

Manual of Style

In the Death section, there is some issues with MOS:SANDWICH, as there is quite a few images sandwiching the text in. I presume this will be fixed as more information becomes available, but, just a little think to take into account for any editors. --- 𝓙𝓪𝓭𝓮 • 𝓉𝒽𝑒𝓎/𝓉𝒽𝑒𝓂 14:22, 18 February 2024 (UTC)

1. Krzysztof Nieczypor (25 February 2012). "Ukraine in "Big-Time Politics" of Alexey Navalny". Eastbook.eu. Archived from the original on 15 March 2014.
2. "Navalny: Integration with Belarus – Main Task for Russia". Telegraf.by. 13 February 2012. Archived from the original on 28 September 2013.

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