Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 17:16, 18 June 2007

Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute.

This is Jimbo Wales's talk page, where you can send them messages and comments.

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Suicide of Anna Halman controversy

Dear Mr. Wales,

you were one of wikipedians who deleted facts from article Suicide of Anna Halman and "mereged" (in fact deleted) the article. I hope you read relevant sources which are in Polish and Czech language and you are able to understand sources in Slavic languages. Yesterday I stared voting about that article at Czech Misplaced Pages. See cs:Wikipedie:Hlasování o smazání/Anna Halman. There is no doubt. (ponechat = keep, smazat = delete, zdržuji se = abstain, komentáře = comments). Only one user who wants to delete the article wrote as reason that another wikipedian calls him an idiot few weeks ago. I will be glad if you explain us your personal opinion at Czech Misplaced Pages (English language is no problem). Thank you, --Dezidor 10:32, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Pending Jimbo's own reply, have you see this comment which he made on the matter on June 2? --Tony Sidaway 10:39, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

I would like to add that the Czech language version of the Misplaced Pages is one of the most problematic language version. It pays no or almost no attention to many established rules of the Misplaced Pages, such as WP:BLP, WP:NPA, the notion that the Misplaced Pages is governed by the Florida law, not by the law of the Czech republic etc.

IMHO, the reason why 14 users voted against Jimbo's decision is the latent anti-Americanism. For instance, Beren wrote: "I understand that from the American point of view where pupils shoot each other in schools it looks not notable, but in our country it is not so. (Chápu, že z amerického pohledu, kde se žáci ve školách střílí, to vypadá nevýznamně i jako téma, u nás to ale tak není.)" User:Cinik wrote: "Jimbo's intervention is for the Czech Misplaced Pages irrelevant—Jimbo cannot speak Polish nor Czech and the English article has looked much differently than the Czech. (Jimbův zásah je pro českou wikipedii IMHO irelevantní - Jimbo neumí ani polsky ani česky a anglický článek vypadal podstatně jinak, než český.)"

—Zacheus 11:38, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

• This reply contains no arguments but only personal feelings of Jimbo Wales and information that article will be delete. Now he has fair chance to argue agains the existence of article and tolk about sources at Czech Misplaced Pages.

• Zacheus <personal data removed> is banned at Czech Misplaced Pages for vandalism, personal atacks and harassemt. He declared that he is going to do harm to Misplaced Pages. --Móryturite Salutant 12:47, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Please,

1. don't establish one-purpose only account,
2. don't import totally unrelated drama from cs:. Your version of that event is totally false, but there's no place and no need to correct you. —Zacheus 12:59, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

my statement to a deletion fyi

Subject: deleting of Suicide of Anna Halman () by User:Thebainer on June 2nd and your comments to this event (see Talk:2006 Gdansk school suicide incident#moving and merging). Sorry, but the deleting (no merging, but deleting) of the article was very disappointing, but the way how it was done incl. your comments was very negative experience for me.
I am not like to discuss here the (obvious) significance of the event for an encyclopedia (I see, that somebody living in Australia – or Florida – sees it with another eyes, but the whole middle Europe discussed this event so it is significant, then more over in one country – Poland - where the celebration of Christopher Street Day might be a very dangerous event).
But the way it was deleted – and then confirmed by you – was a bad experience for me:

• it was not merged to somewhere but deleted (dear Jimbo Wales, I am a bit elder than you but not yet quite senile and working here over 3 years, so please...)
• the deletion was made a very short time after a brain storming of the community, where the majority said it is important and it has to be kept; under the influence of the discussion here there is a voting on the Czech Misplaced Pages started by someone yesterday – see the results after some hour at cs:Wikipedie:Hlasování o smazání/Anna Halman (probably somewhat, what User:Zacheus calls mob rule of the postcommunist version of the Misplaced Pages
• the history shows that the User:Thebainer used a very obscure way to delete the page: he could have use the old article to „merge“ it to the new one, the he could have make a notice somewhere; but he moved the page first to another name, then he deleted it without making a notice somewhere and he deleted also the talk page; I am sorry, Jimbo Wales, as I saw it next morning I was very perplex, as the same way used the User:Zacheus on the Czech Misplaced Pages <personal data removed>, to vandalize, to manipulate and to hide his manipulations some one and half year ago, and he was banned for it
• the deletion supported some more vandals who were forcing the deletion here and also in other wikipedias; two of them, User:Zacheus and the user editing like 71.99.xxxxx, are presently banned in the Czech Misplaced Pages (vandalism, personal attacks, destroing the community...), the tried to attack the same article in other Wikipedias as well

This circumstances make me after just more than three years of work here and nearly three years experiance like admin quite insecure about the future of this project. I know your letter and statements on democracy and Misplaced Pages, be sure. But this was not good and together with some other unsufficient rules I must rethink my position here, maybe with the exception of one project; but it was very desmotivating.

After I have posted this I saw that a very similar thread is beeing discussed here, but anyway... Thanks for understanding, -jkb- 14:08, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

-jkb- is a very problematic user for his dark past. I made him sysop on cs:, but it turned out a big mistake. His problem is that he does not understand even fundamental rules of the Misplaced Pages, such as WP:BLP or protection of privacy.

Cs: is now ruled by -jkb- and his cronies. They refused to delete the article about A. H., because it was written by one of them – Cynik – who used to hype them in the blog or another Kuroshin Britské listy and in his own blog. That's why he calls merging ("deleting") of the article "very disappointing".

I live in the Czech Republic. I've never heard about A. H., except for Cynik's hype. The Polish version of the Misplaced Pages has deleted the article as not notable. I don't think that the effort of some cronies (or in sk:) should be important. The Misplaced Pages is not a newspaper, as Jimbo correctly said.

-jkb- has written: "dear Jimbo Wales, I am a bit elder than you but not yet quite senile and working here over 3 years, so please..." In my view, he overestimate himself.

In AfD there was only 10 voters. This does not build a consensus.

Finally, I agree that as the former bureaucrat of cs: I tried to behave as Jimbo of TheBainer do. That's why -jkb- and his cronies two years ago desysopped me at first by a fraud and then blocked me. I remain blocked there up today and cs: doesn't respect even fundamental principles.

—Zacheus 15:28, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Question

I have a question sir. What was the first article created in wikipedia? I'm curious. RuneWiki777 20:51, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

History of Misplaced Pages is a good place to start to satisfy your curiosity. Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages's oldest articles is a more direct answer to your question.-gadfium 23:43, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

are you there?

I like to know Mr. Wales if you are even there or is the "wiki army" saying and answering everything before you can. Agentheartlesspain 20:50, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

He certainly edits, if that's what you mean, heh. Just generally most questions people ask here can be answered by almost anyone. Cowman109 21:00, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Main Page featured article protection

Well, this one can't. On the talk page it has been suggested that we ask for your input on this one. We've had a lot of changes, reverts and debate recently, and we're stuggling to assess whether there is support in the wider community for this policy. When a table was added to the talk page almost everyone added themselves to one form of semi-protection stance that is heavier than the current policy, yet we don't know whether this is representative of the wider community of not. The discussion has now been advertised on several pages, and we are hoping to get a good response. If you would like to be involved in this please drop by. Richard001 23:50, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Good evening, Mr. Wales...

For a second there, I thought we were taking down the KDE. Seems like a nice concept though -- Phoeba Wright 16:53, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

Run! Gnome attack! --Iamunknown 23:49, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Jimmy, I need help, and you are the only one that can do it

Previous discussions:

Was Jimbo on the Colbert report

said so. I rarely watch the Colbert report. Can someone tell me if he was? SakotGrimshine 01:53, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Yes. Sean William @ 01:54, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Yeah...the aftermath was great...cleaning the phrase "librarians are hiding something" up off of pretty much every other page around here...—Gaff 08:34, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

What episode date, number, name, etc was it? I will look for it to download. SakotGrimshine 09:10, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

This one --h2g2bob (talk) 09:22, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Ahh I found it. I googled "Jimbo Wales" "Colbert Report" it first wasn't much, but the top result was from NathanR.ca that said it was back in May so it wasn't something I just missed a day ago. So I looked around and only saw some tiny streaming things. Finally I found a full 150MB quality video for download on torrentspy.com that looks quality so I will download it. It said the show was:

The Colbert Report - 05.24.07 - S03E72 - Title: Jimmy Wales

Episode Number: 265 | Season Num: 3 | First Aired: Thursday May 24, 2007 | Prod Code: 3072

SakotGrimshine 09:35, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for finding that; actually an interesting interview. I had not seen it before. The slew of vandalism was funny and incredibly annoying at the time. I was on vandal patrol and had no idea what was going on, just all this librarian vandalism all at once. It cracked me up! —Gaff 18:50, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Is Stephen Colbert still banned from Misplaced Pages? SakotGrimshine 19:46, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

He is also responsible for the llama vandalism at Albert Einstein article...very frustrating.--Cronholm 22:13, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Benevolent Dictator For Life

The article on Benevolent Dictator for Life (despite being unsourced) has you marked as Misplaced Pages's benevolent dictator for life. I remember reading once that you did not like that title and did not assume that title. What's the straight scoop on this? - Chardish 03:51, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

• There was no source so removing your name was straightforward, SqueakBox 04:06, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Yes, it is nonsense. I have often compared my community role to that of constitutional monarch, and specifically to the role of the Queen of England. This is itself just a poor metaphor to explain my desire that my actual role diminish over time to become mostly symbolic. I just want to wave at parades and cut ribbons at ceremonies. :) But for now I actually do still have some work to do. I can only govern here to a slight degree, and only then with the "consent of the government", which mostly means through the support of the most thoughtful and powerful admins. There should be no benevolent dictator of all human knowledge, but neither should we embark on hasty changes to a model which is working. --Jimbo Wales 14:30, 14 June 2007 (UTC)
    • That's not actually the full scope of the rôle of the monarch of the United Kingdom. Don't believe what United Kingdom#Government and politics says. That is original research sourced to a legislative journal. Politics of the United Kingdom#Monarch does a better job, but it misses out several important points (loyalties of military personnel to the monarch rather to the government and the quiet influence reported by both Harold Macmillan and Harold Wilson amongst others) that you can find discussed on pages 318 of ISBN 0415323770 and 13–14 of ISBN 1859419275.

      Now let's see how many people watching this page are willing to take those sources in hand and fix the articles. ☺ Uncle G 12:05, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

• Talking of original research: Directly interviewing the subject for "the straight scoop" is original research, too. The place to be is benevolent dictator#References. Uncle G 12:05, 15 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Agreed, but I believe that would only apply if the interview question wasn't asked and answered publicly, as this was. We don't need a third party to read the diffs of this talk page and then report on it - it's essentially a primary source now. The article on Misplaced Pages, for example, sources dozens of Misplaced Pages pages. I could be in error; I don't pretend to be an expert on classifying sources. - Chardish 16:03, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Signature truncation in the Media

Hi Jimbo, I was wondering if the powers-that-be could undo that enforced 255 character limit on signatures recently introduced to the MediaWiki code, something that adversely affects a great number of Wikipedians with distinctive sigs. As I understand it, relatively short signatures are a guideline but not policy. I'm fond of my signature, Valley2city, which only goes 14 characters over the limit. Can we clarify if this is now policy? Thanks, man. Valley2city 05:25, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

I can see a direct corrolation between the users who don't understand what the purpose of a guideline is on Misplaced Pages, and those that will suffer (as oppose to everyone else, who will benefit) from this. Daniel 05:42, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Clearly this is not the place for such a discussion. Please keep it to WT:SIG, the WP:VP or post to wikitech-l. AmiDaniel (talk) 05:44, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Hope it is good now.  :) --Iamunknown 23:48, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

A day in the life of Jimbo

Just curious, what do you do on an 'average' day, when you aren't dealing with the media or handling some scandal? Do you wake up, have coffee, check your watchlist? Stay in bed and watch the news? Get woken up and have to deal with someone who found your phone number... again? Was wondering what your life is like outside the conferences and interviews -- Phoeba Wright 14:37, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Oh, and more interestingly, how has that changed in the time since you've founded wikipedia, and[REDACTED] becoming incredibly popular? -- Phoeba Wright 14:38, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Well, for one, he does a lot of traveling, though I don't know what he does on a normal day. Valley2city 22:28, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Well there's one thing we all know for certain: Jimbo gets up, eats, and goes to bed (at the very least). Happy? :P —  $PЯINGrαgђ  04:30, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Daniel Brandt

You are the last blocking admin of Daniel Brandt, which for the final block I see he is blocked per his request in the block log. He no longer has an article and so has no reason to be angry or sue. He also is listed as community banned but he was un-community banned and he was only blocked per his request so he should not be listed at WP:BANNED, so I request that he be removed from there as it was a requested block and not a ban. I am also suggesting that he should be unblocked because his article is gone but that may depend since his last block said it was requested by him. SakotGrimshine 23:36, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I would say quite the opposite. While we had an article on him I opposed your reblocking of him but now we dont have an article on him I can see no reason to unblock him given his past behaviour and legal threats, SqueakBox 23:38, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

The question is are the legal threats now moot? Or will he make more? Blocking is not supposed to punish people. SakotGrimshine 23:39, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Unblocking was incredibly controversial before. If he wants to be unblocked right now it ashould be for him to ask the wiki foundation to do so. We have to see evidence that he is 100% happy with the current outcome (where the past hsitory of the article is still available as are the talk page and its 9 archives so until various issues are resolved I am not convinced these threats are moot. He has stated once[REDACTED] gives him what he wants that he will have no interest in editing here anyway, SqueakBox 23:43, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

I asked him just now by email what he wants to do. As I understand it, he does not want to edit Misplaced Pages. But he also doesn't want to be listed as a blocked or banned user. I assume that an unblock would be a courtesy formality, as he has no interest in editing anyway. I will respect his wishes.--Jimbo Wales 08:35, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

St. Pete Meetup time!

Mike H. I did "That's hot" first! 04:25, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

The Norwegian lolicon article

I just wanted to say thanks for removing the picture on the Norwegian lolicon article. Some people are just sick. Anyway, you rock;)--Count Zar 05:56, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanksgiving and request

Hello sir Wales,

I`m a user from fa.wiki and acquainted with your great and non similar project, Misplaced Pages, at farsi version.

Now, I decided to will extend my contributions with having some of cooperation at en.wiki and other wiki projects. Unfortunately, I only know that you and Mrs Angela Beesley whom made this great project in the Cyber-world. it`s my little information about you and her that reached at fa.wiki. Excuse me, I never have an intent for getting your gold time, and aske you that if you can, recognize to me another your stewards in this great project for future own cooperation.

I`m wrote this words with pretext for thanksgiving from you and your mate, Mrs Beesley, for producing this great 💕, that learn me a lot of things and increase my science in all the fields.

Best regards,

--Gordafarid 11:27, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

you need to see that a decision is made here

After the Daniel Brandt debacle, the argument that a notable subject simply not wanting a wikibio about themselves is being used as if it were policy or guideline (rather than just precedent) in favor of deletion in other debates, such as the one currently underway for Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Angela Beesley (4th nomination). This is separate from deferring to an individual's right to privacy in my mind (as outlined in the BLP), as it concerns the public actions and behavior of public figures. Whatever happens in this instance, I feel that a firm ruling (not necessarily by you alone) needs to be made on whether this is policy or not. At the moment I do not see where (in policy) a subject's wishes are taken into account in whether a biography meets the policy for inclusion. VanTucky 19:18, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Content of user pages

Hi, Jimbo. Today I noticed that the project contains quite a few user pages that seem to spotlight the most unseemly sides of the project. If I were a newbie or a potential contibutor, I would have kept away from Misplaced Pages after taking a look at all the offensive statements listed on User:EVula, for instance. Do you think a user page may contain everything or there should be some exceptions, so as not to bring Misplaced Pages into disrepute? --Ghirla 21:28, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

I see nothing wrong with that page. It's not like he's claiming to be a pedophile or anything. --Carnildo 23:26, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

A good list of things he's been called though. --h2g2bob (talk) 02:27, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Nevertheless I don't see an overpowering reason why there should be so much spotlight on insults and offensive statements. One editor (now permabanned) once told me, "Remember that the Russian's eyes may be blue, but his arse is black." Should I proudly display this message on my user page (being Russian myself)? I think such lists of insults create a distorted perspective on the project and scare potential contributors from getting involved in Misplaced Pages. --Ghirla 07:43, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages isn't a friendly place though. If you can tell me of one editor with over 1000 contribs who hasn't been insulted, trolled, flamed, or had some other experience dealing with morons on wikipedia, I might support you -- Phoeba Wright 07:55, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

So why flaunt it? --Ghirla 08:10, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Because it's good for a laugh. If we weren't allowed any humour on wikipedia, the project would probably be dead or dying from having most editors leave -- Phoeba Wright 19:12, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Feba, do you find insults and ethnic slurs funny? --Ghirla 19:26, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

By themselves, no. In the way they were listed though, yes. I find internet trolls quite humourous -- Phoeba Wright 20:20, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

So do I. Do you think it would be funny to leave this image hanging on my user page? --Ghirla 20:29, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

On your page, no. But I wouldn't mind a link to the diff saying "ASCII Hippos (or something) declare me a troll - Day, Month, Year."; as a part of the page itself it's rather large and annoying. -- Phoeba Wright 07:37, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Maybe you should talk with EVula ... he or she may have never thought of the reasons you propose here. --Iamunknown 19:56, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

EVula is just an example. I know quite a few user pages arranged along these lines and I would like to know Jimbo's opinion about the principle that stacking offensive lines from all over Misplaced Pages on one's user page is funny or cool. --Ghirla 20:01, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Ghirla, is it possible that the problem is the folk who would write such things about an editor? It may make you a little uncomfortable to view these things, but sometimes somebody has to be brave enough to bring such matters into the public areana. Perhaps you may prefer that the targets of such abuse should quietly push these attacks away to protect the sensitivities of the rest of us. Of course, if that happened in the real world women would still be second class citizens, gay people would have to live a lie and black people would still be using the "Jim Crow" seats... No, parts of EVula's page is not a nice place, but it wasn't EVula that ultimately made it that way. Lastly, and I do not mean this unkindly, if you are uncomfortable with the truth being honestly displayed you may wish to consider your ability to contribute to an uncensored encyclopedia. LessHeard vanU 22:58, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

I generally tend to agree with Ghirla. The best way to deal with trolls is to delete their comments and ignore them. Keep Misplaced Pages clean, attractive, friendly. I don't find LessHeard's argument compelling, because I think it is not about protecting sensitivities at all. It's about not feeding trolls. I should add that I don't find EVula's userpage to be especialy problematic, even if it is different from what I choose to have, and different from what I recommend.--Jimbo Wales 05:31, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your prompt reply, Jimbo. I concur that we'd better refrain from highlighting vandalism and trolling in user space. --Ghirla 17:16, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Wikinews writing competition

Hi Jimbo!

Over on Wikinews I've just put my name down for a 100 euro prize in a new writing contest we'd like to start after the Board elections. I've contacted Ral315 in the hope of getting a mention in the Signpost (and possibly Misplaced Pages's sitenotice), but I'd really like to up the stakes on this. I know finances for the foundation are tight, but would you personally be interested in upping the ante on our prize pot? Last writing competition got us hundreds of articles and quite a few new contributors. --Brianmc 15:46, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Deletion or transfer

Maybe it's something even out of your reach, but can you either delete or transfer logs of mine of non-sports related edits ( see , , , , , , , , , , , and many more edits from April 2-3. If you possibly could transfer to my non sports account or delete them, it's no skin off my nose. Hope to hear from you soon! Soxrock 23:53 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Sorry, but as far as I know, there is no feature currently in the Mediawiki software that allows a transfer of individual edits from one account to another. There use to be a page called Misplaced Pages:Changing attribution for an edit where Misplaced Pages's developers would take requests to alter the MySql database directly, but is now not maintained anymore due to their busy schedules. And as for deleting specific edits, under the GNU Free Documentation License, we cannot since those modifications are really legitimate. Thanks. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 00:41, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Ok, since I want to keep trying at least, are there any higher ranking people than you here (obviously Jimbo Wales, but anyone else)? Soxrock 0:49, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Looking at the user access levels of MediaWiki, one possibility that is similar to what you want is contacting a user who has access to the oversight permission feature, but you probably do not qualify under those scenarios. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 00:59, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Now, that's a previous discussion. Can you either help hide/delete, or transfer the files I've highlighted and any other's that I do (like Voyager 2 edits from 4/20, all the Marshall-related and religious-related ones ones from 4/3, the Marylin Monroe and Amanda Bynes ones from last year that I'll highlight (some more here: , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , , 2 edits here, , , , 2 edits here, , , , , , 2 edits here, numerous edits here, , , numerous edits here, , , , , 3 edits here, 6 edits on the redirect page, , , , , and the two ones I highlighted earlier, , and 5 edits to and

• here are a few more I'd like vacated:

3 here 4 here 2 here

• sorry to bother again, but here are some more from my other accounts:

Crazy Canadian:

CollegeGameDayRocks!:

And lastly, TheSportsLogosMaster:

(and there are probably a few more out there, I'll give you a link to the general areas of these edits)

If you could transfer, vacate, or, if you can't do too much, direct me to a higher ranking person. I want those gone from all of my accounts. Soxrock 12:02, 12 June 2007 (UTC)

Now, I didn't get a response out of Blnguyen for about 48 hours, so I believe it won't be accomplished. Since I've recreated myself to be only sports editing under the accounts I've put up there, if you could either transfer the edits, vacate or delete them (any way to get them off the contributions list), I'd appreciate it greatly. THANKS FOR CREATING THIS GREAT SITE JIMMY! Soxrock 01:44, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Soxrock, I think the reason noone else has replied to you is that there is nothing more to be said, this simply isn't going to happen. Reinventing yourself means change going forward, not rewriting history - go forth & edit constructively, pretty soon all these old edits will be buried so far in your contribution history that even you will forget about them. --Versageek 17:02, 18 June 2007 (UTC)