Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 10:28, 29 November 2003

The German Misplaced Pages uses a system whereby brilliant prose pages are first added to a page called Misplaced Pages:Brilliant prose candidates, where people are requested to comment on the listed articles, similar to Misplaced Pages:Votes for deletion, or Misplaced Pages:Requests for adminship. Only if a nearly unanimous consensus is reached is the article actually added to Misplaced Pages:Brilliant prose. I think this is a better solution than what we have now, because it keeps interest in the page alive, and people are actually encouraged to review the articles that are listed. It would also allow authors to list their own articles. What do you folks think? If there are no objections, I'll set this up. --Eloquence 20:12 24 Jun 2003 (UTC)

good idea -- Tarquin 20:20 24 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Yes, good idea. But I don't think people should nominate their own articles. --KF 20:23 24 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Well, we could technically allow it, but note that some people object to such nominations on principle. --Eloquence 20:24 24 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I immediately thought "good idea", and exactly because it would allow people to nominate their own articles. I've got a couple that I feel are bordering on brilliant, but I'd certainly feel entirely wrong adding them directly to the "Brilliant prose" page. And they're kind of off the beaten track, so not many people see them to get the idea in their heads that maybe it should be placed here. With such a page/process, I could at least see if other people agree, and it does belong here, or if I'm just completely full of myself. ;) -- John Owens 22:02 24 Jun 2003 (UTC)

Perhaps a subsection of "Current nominations" for self-nominations, which have to be seconded, instead of just allowed by default after a week? -- John Owens 22:05 24 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I do think there should be some indication that something has been self-nominated. Otherwise, sooner or later, someone might come along, see something that's been nominated for a week, and move it over to "Brilliant prose" without realizing it's self-nominated. Should we just annotate it in the nomination, something like (if Eloquence had worked long and hard on same-sex marriage, which he hasn't):

• Same-sex marriage and linked pages - seems fairly complete and accurate to me. Self-nomination. -- Eloquence 22:56 24 Jun 2003 (UTC)

for example. Or, my above idea of a separate subsection. -- John Owens 23:03 24 Jun 2003 (UTC)

P.S. Should we take this discussion over to the as-yet nonexistent Misplaced Pages talk:Brilliant prose candidates now? -- John Owens 23:09 24 Jun 2003 (UTC)

I think it'd be nice to have newly accepted brilliant prose articles on the main page. Thoughts? Martin 09:45 1 Jul 2003 (UTC)

I find it xuriously straneg taht no-pne has nominated themselves for the honosr of veing lesetd here. Must hqvwe an extremely humple bunch of contributors. -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 23:27 18 Jul 2003 (UTC)

There...the page now has a self-nomination! I hereby forfeit any sense of humility I may (or may not) have had :)Adam Bishop 03:35 22 Jul 2003 (UTC)

There are a (small) number of pages -- backwaters, mainly -- on which I've been the main contributor, that I think -- if not quite brilliant -- actually pretty OK. I won't nominate them and, being something of a sporadic and solo contributor, don't know anyone who would be prepared to second such a self nomination. So I'm here to shill for one. Regulars: please glace at, say, Bob Dylan, Gram Parsons, Neil Young or Miles Davis. If you like them, could you add them to the real list of nominations, or inform me you'd be willing to second them. Cheers -- GWO

Hell, I'll second Bob Dylan. And though it smacks of tit-for-tat, you might take a look at Race (it's already nominated). JDG 20:59, 3 Oct 2003 (UTC)

This page has been up and running for a month or three now so I thought a quick review was in order. Basic conclusion: I think it is a good idea working pretty well. The only slight problem I can see is that if a) someone is present on WP and b) is knowledgeable about a subject, then they have probably contributed to the article on that subject. This appears to be leading to pages being listed on this page for way over the original mooted period of 1 week - perhaps people are afraid to second because they are trapped through lack of knowledge or being contributor. I see at least two possible improvements to the process -

1) (not radical) Add a line to the preamble saying "It is not essential for you to fact check an article to second it. If you read an article and it reads very well and think you've learnt something then go ahead and second it. This is especially true of an article which has had plenty of contributors and discussion"... or something along those lines.

2) (more radical) When an article is up for BP-hood, we (somehow) contact an external expert on the subject in question and ask for their comments. This may be a sneaky way of bringing experts to the WP table. We might not do this in every case, as obviously it requires someone to find out who to contact and how to contact that them, but it may create a win-win situation in some cases.

Pete 08:46, 9 Oct 2003 (UTC)

I prefer the second course of action and have in fact been thinking about doing just that in some cases. Brilliant prose should be our approval mechanism so we should aim at high standards, IMHO.—Eloquence 09:43, Oct 9, 2003 (UTC)

(I am withdrawing Non-Indo-European roots. . . until I can find out a bit more about the substance of the claimed inaccuracy. I am preserving the comments from this self-nom here.)

• Non-Indo-European roots of Germanic languages - I had a bit of fun writing this one. It comes across rather well despite being written in a modified form of constrained writing, except for the proper nouns. -- Smerdis of Tlön
  • That is very interesting...I always wondered why a lot of Pokorny's IE roots didn't go any farther back than Proto-Germanic. Adam Bishop 00:17, 1 Sep 2003 (UTC)
  • I would like to add my vote in favor -- An enlightening and very well-written piece! Polaris999
    • Oppose strenously on the present form of the article. The only factual point on which I can claim any knowledge on (derivation of "king"), was at best seriously misrepresented. The article may attain BrilliantProsehood, but it isn't there yet. -- Cimon Avaro on a pogo-stick 18:48, Sep 9, 2003 (EDT)

I have always been puzzled why the threshold for brilliant prose is so low. I don't know of any other "candidates" or "proposed" page in Misplaced Pages where items automatically get approved if no action is taken. It takes majority votes to get a page deleted, a page undeleted or an admin promoted, so why is brilliant prose done the opposite way? At the very least, it should be called Prose with no objections or Unobjectionable prose, as not every item has been positively voted brilliant. Shouldn't this process change to better reflect 1) how other things are done in Misplaced Pages and 2) the title brilliant? Fuzheado 05:37, 20 Nov 2003 (UTC)

I think the current process is very fair. If you think the article nominated is not brilliant, then you can rise an objection. The reasons of objection include not only NPOV problems but also the poor quality or the lack of coverage. But I agree with that brilliant might imply that writing is brilliant rather than the overall quality of the article. -- Taku 08:27, Nov 20, 2003 (UTC)

I would argue it's beyond fair -- it's too generous. It starts with the assumption the article proposed is brilliant (which in Misplaced Pages is ill advised) and requires people to not only notice it's been listed, but to disprove it in a seven days period. The value of a list like BP is its exclusivity, but perhaps uses too inclusive a process. Fuzheado 09:15, 20 Nov 2003 (UTC)

Not long ago there was no candidates page at all. The BP page was open to all... so things are more professional/rigourous (or to put it another way less 'wiki') than they used to be. I outlined part of the problem about having a more rigourous approach. _If_ someone has a deep interest/knowledge of a subject then they have probably already contributed to the article, and thus can't readily act as a validator for an article.

I quite like that this page has a name with quite a lyrical flourish. Calling it 'Particularly good articles' or something just wouldn't be the same. Pete 09:25, 20 Nov 2003 (UTC)

How long does a proposal with objections stay in this page? We have things here from October 5!! Muriel Victoria 10:28, 29 Nov 2003 (UTC)