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Revision as of 20:25, 26 September 2005

Sher Khan

This is probably a clever hoax created by the same persistent prankster or pranksters who invented the Nasher dynasty (old VfD page). It appears plausible, but:

• The Ghaznavids haven't ruled anything since the 12th century. The article claimed that they did, but it should be easy to guess who added that fact.
• Several assertions are verified and unverifiable through any sources I can find, namely:
  • the assertion that he founded the Spinzar corporation. In fact, it was founded as a venture of the Afghan National Bank.
  • the assertion that Kipling named Shere Khan after him. Not only does Shere Khan mean something like "Tiger Lord", according to the commentary in the 1992 Oxford University Press edition, but if this person was born in the 1890s, he would have been no more than four years old when The Jungle Book was published—thus an unlikely source for the name.
  • The assertion that Afghanistan's largest port is named after him. As was pointed out in the previous VfD, Afghanistan is landlocked, thus it's unlikely that it has any ports named after anybody. Okay, Shir Khan is a real port in Afghanistan, but I find no indication that it was named after him.

There may be some parts that are true, or at least based on a real person: see , the reliability of which is hard to judge. It appears that the hoaxster took some facts about Farhad Darya's grandfather from that source, mixed them with fiction about the Nasher dynasty, and came up with this article. References to this fictitious person have been added elsewhere and will need to be trimmed out carefully. —Charles P. (Mirv) 23:14, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

• comment I buy that this article is a hoax. Note that the Columbia encyclopedia has an article about "Sher Khan" from a totally different time period. — brighterorange (talk) 23:02, 25 September 2005 (UTC)
• Redirect to Shere Khan as possible misspelling to avoid recreation. - Mgm| 09:04, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Support

I was the one who created this article about Sher Khan. As a matter of fact, I created the original version which has been altered by other users. When factual errors appeared, I corrected them. I am a PhD student at Brown, specializing in Afghan history. Sher Khan is a key figur in post-British Afghanistan and should thus remain in the dictionary. About your points:

• True, the Ghaznavids have not ruled the country after the 12th century as Kings, but they lived as hereditary Khans in their home area, having some sort of 'traditional' power.
• The Spinzar Company was founded by Sher Khan, but largely owned by the Afghan Government through the Bank-e-Milli. Sher Khan held about 5 % and some percentage in the ACG (Afghan Cotton Company) in Gulbahar and Pol-e-chmuri. After Sher Khan's tragic death, his son Gholam Serwar served as CEO until the war with Russia broke out (most literature on Afghan history is - ALAS!!! - almost impossible to get, this you can check online on http://www.institute-for-afghan-studies.org/HistoricalResearchCorner/ACFAE9.pdf). He was then imprisoned by Daoud. The Spinzar Company is back in action today, ran by Mr Arianpoor.
• I do not know much about the association to Kipling. I do however know that Kipling spent some time in Kunduz.
• Sher Khan Bandar was named after Sher Khan Nasher, this fact is undisputed among anyone dealing with Afghanistan. As a matter of fact, three years ago the Afghan government wanted to change the name to Massoud Bandar. An outrage, followed by a quasi-riot broke out in Kundus up to Sher Khan Bandar which made the government change its mind.
• The Columbia article deals with a different Sher Khan, mostly referred to as Sher Shah. He was an Afghan ruler of the Mughal empire for five years (1540–1545) who had defeated Homayun.

So: except for the Kipling part, all the info is accurate.

Steve

(the above posted by someone using the South African IP address 209.203.60.6 (talk • contribs), who also removed the AfD tag from the article and deleted the reference to the old Nasher hoax from my initial post. —Charles P. (Mirv))

Hi Steve. Are you LloydHughes (talk · contribs), who created the initial revision of Shir Khan, or are you 141.2.161.249 (talk · contribs), the Johann Wolfgang Goethe-Universitaet IP address who created the initial revision of Sher Khan, or are you both? Can you cite any sources for the claims here and in the text of the article? It's important that information in Misplaced Pages be verifiable, and without sources, it's very hard (you're right about the paucity of literature on Afghanistan) for anyone else to check the facts—and they certainly need checking. I have access to a first-rate university library and should be able to get my hands on any relevant English or French works.

(also, just FYI, it's generally considered impolite to edit other people's signed comments in a way that changes their meaning.) —Charles P. (Mirv) 18:38, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Mirv

We appreciate your effort very much. We are all trying to get as close to historical accuracy as possible. There is no need to act offensive. This service of writing about something I know much about (and spend my life with) is something I am giving to the Misplaced Pages community. I defended my points but I am not writing a scientific text scattered with footnotes for you as I have many other things to do (namely do research about other historical incidents and people I do not know much about).

Regards,

Steve

I am not asking for exhaustive footnoting of each and every point; I just want to know where you got the information contained in this article. My own research has turned up nothing that confirms what is written here; this, plus my experience with the previous Nasher hoax, leads me to believe that some or all of the article is erroneous or fictitious. If the facts cannot be verified, then the article will probably be deleted. I am willing to take the time to verify it, but I've hit a dead end in researching and don't know where to continue. If you name a few of the sources you used in writing the article, other editors can check them and be convinced that the article is not a hoax. —Charles P. (Mirv) 19:13, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

• For the info on the Spinzar Cotton Company and Sher Khan and his son check "Light Garden of the Angel King: Travels in Afghanistan" by Peter Levi; Binding: Paperback Publisher: Trafalgar Square Published Date: 05/01/2001.
• The Kipling part I cannot confirm.
• The rest is 100 % accurate, see above.

Dear Mirv, please understand that I cannot leave personal indiscretions on this site.