| Revision as of 16:27, 10 March 2009 editWikireader41 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers8,522 edits →Unconstructive edits...← Previous edit |
Revision as of 17:29, 20 March 2009 edit undoSBC-YPR (talk | contribs)Pending changes reviewers3,133 editsm Archived old contentNext edit → |
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== cleaning up the article == |
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I noticed that the article says that the Kashmir region is so dangerous because India and Pakistan could concievably have a nuclear war over it- but the article doesn't mention the fact that the PRC also has nuclear weapons: all three claimants to parts (or all) of Kashmir have nuclear weapons. Obviously the biggest tension is between India and Pakistan, but I'm sure that both of those governments are resentful over the fact that the PRC has control over some of it. -Random Unregistered Guy |
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The article leaves out tons of reasons on why India feels it deserves Kashmir. I mean when I read this it sounds like the guy favors Kashmir to Pakistan, cuz he fails to mention tons of reasons on why India deserves Kashmir. He also fails to go into details regarding how India legally got Kashmir & he doesnt go into details regarding how Pakistan invaded Kashmir first. He doesnt go into details about the water dispute & how thats the real reason Pakistan wants Kashrmi. He also does not mention how Pakistan contraditcs itself when they calim to fight for peoples freedom struggles because there are 2 groups of people, one called the Balochis that wanna seperate from Pakistan, and the pathuns that also wanna seperate from Paksitan...I mean this article is leaves out a ton of facts & is to long. ] 01:32, 24 October 2005 (UTC) |
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The article, at its current state, is full of sentences like "India believes", which makes it look like an opinion-piece. I tried to convert those to "According to Indian views ...". The Section on Terrorism in Kashmir would probably be better off as merged with ], with a brief summary here. The history section is awefully long and full of meaningless details. Sometimes, being inclusive of the tiniest details defeats the purpose, and brevity is preferred. The information bloat now affecting the section can be moved to ]. In any case, the article needs a good amount of trimming/editing, and the trolls who are quite interested into ranting (see above) can consider participating in the cleanup job. Thanks. --] 01:07, 29 July 2005 (UTC) |
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This guy is ridiculous. The new section on the Indo-Pak war of 47 is so biased against Pakistan, it sounds like the Indian Army was posting this stuff. I prefered the old section where it was much more balanced. This new section is totally biased, it makes the Indians seem heroic and the Pakistanis barbaric. This new cleanup stuff is trash! The stuff about Pakistan's self-contradiction are not relevent to the topic of this page.] 22:26, 3 April 2006 (UTC) |
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The Article in its current state is much better and balanced. As i said before, the original was a much better article and it was far more objective than the new version which appeared later.] 22:23, 14 April 2006 (UTC) |
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The new section on Kashmir itself sounds like the history of Hindiusm. Kashmir is introduced in such a way that it appears to be more focused on the Hindiusm aspect. This needs to be changed so that Kashmir is introduced in a political and geographical context rather than a religious context. However, the religious aspect of Kashmir shouldn't be disregarded, rather, it should be placed somewhere else in the article in a seperate section for its religious importance for Hindiusm. I edited the page so that the part referring to the Hindu temples comes in the section with the tourist attractions.] 22:21, 18 April 2006 (UTC) |
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now administered by three countries: India, Pakistan, and the People's Republic of China. - should be changed to now occupied by three countries <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 00:33, 6 March 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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Indians plz note. Try to contribute a balanced article. There are many news regarding indian security forces firing at and killing civilians so if you want to add any comments on hindus ethinic cleansing then please make sure you add indian security forces acrocities as well, otherwise i will keep deleting your evidence less claims. Cheers! <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 14:30, 19 September 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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I believe this is not the vegetable shop on your street to bargaining, this is[REDACTED] and here truth and references are more important. And I know that U are no Admin besides who gave U this news? The guy next door??? ] (]) 16:27, 21 November 2008 (UTC) |
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Can I get the correct references for this statement in the article : "Once the Maharaja signed the Instrument of Accession, "Indian soldiers entered Kashmir and started killing innocent Kashmiri People including women and children. The United Nations was then invited by Pakistan to mediate the quarrel." . From what I know, it was tribesmen armed and supported by Pakistani govt, that started the crisis ( Source: Maharaja's letter at http://www.jammu-kashmir.com/documents/documents.html ). <small><span class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (] • ]) 19:53, 11 February 2009 (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== Arguemnts to add to the Indian point of view section== |
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There are some arguments that can be added to the Indian point of view section. I would add them myself, but I have the feeling it will just be erased. So I will add them here, and let "the powers that be" add them. Here they are: |
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1 - There is no mention of the fact that many Indians feel like Paksitan already got so much land from India so its unfair to ask for Kashmir?..... |
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2 - There is no mention of the fact that because Pakistan invaded Kashmir & stole half the land (even though the Prince of Kashmir still hadnt decided which country to join) that it is unfair for Pakistan to ask for the rest of Kashmir. |
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3 - There is no mention of the fact that Indians argue it is not fair to use the argument that "the majority of people should vote on what country they want to join", becuase by that logic Pakistan should have never been created in the first place because the majority of people didnt want to break up India to create a Pakistan the country in the first place. |
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4 - There is no mention of the fact that Paksitan contradicts itself by claiming they want to help to "free" Kashmiris and yet they dont let the Balochis or Pashtuns that want to seperate from Paksitan & let them have there own seperate homeland. WHy wont they let the Pashtuns or Balochis be free to? |
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5 - There is no mention of the Sheik (last name i forgot but he was considered the voice of pakistan) who said Kashmir belongs to India |
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6 - There is no mention of the fact that Pakistan sends in Islamic terrorist groups to Kashmir, and these groups have systematically forced out HIndu & SIkh Kashmiris, while also scaring Muslim Kashmiris that may want to side with India, and so therefore it is unfair to ask for a vote from the Kashmiris. |
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7 - And there is nothing written about the fact that if Pakistan really cared about the Kashmiri people then why would they give a piece of Kashmir to China in 1965. |
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These are all valid arguments and I would type these in myself but I have the feeling that they might just be erased. ] (]) 00:25, 25 June 2008 (UTC). |
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:Thumbs up. ] (]) 17:42, 19 August 2008 (UTC) |
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== 2 million people in the Aksai Chin? == |
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Where does this number come from? The Aksai Chin is an uninhabited wasteland and clearly does not have 2 million people, Buddhists or not. The entirely of ] has less than three million people, and they don't surely don't have 2/3 of the population crammed into the Aksai Chin. This needs to be fixed. --] (]) 19:20, 29 June 2008 (UTC) |
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:Agreed. The unlikely numbers were introduced in . Aqsoi Qin and other regions just above and below the ] in ] are some of the few areas in China where the human population might have actually decreased in the last 60 years. See for example, ], ], and ]. Have undone edit. ]] 11:48, 2 July 2008 (UTC) |
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== POV Images == |
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There seems to be a heavy influence of images taken from Indian administered Kashmir and only one from Azad Kashmir can some one tell my why this article is so heavily Influenced by images from India it seems to undercut Pakistan Kashmir i will replace this soon. <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 17:46, 19 July 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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:Dear IP from British Telecommunications: How did you arrive at that conclusion? There is one image of Nanga Parbat, which is ''not'' in Azad Kashmir, but rather in the ], and two from Jammu and Kashmir, and one (strangely enough) from New Delhi. The rest of the pictures are all over a hundred years old, all from the princely state ], when there was no ] or ]. The pictures were deliberately chosen in that manner to avoid controversy. If you feel that the Pakistani or Chinese areas of Kashmir should be better represented, the way to go about doing it is to add quality pictures from those areas, not unilaterally remove other pictures. I agree though that the New Delhi picture doesn't seem very relevant. I will move it here, pending further discussion. ]] 23:15, 19 July 2008 (UTC) |
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] man sells an original ] ] from Kashmir in a market in ], India.]] |
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Have removed the Kashmiri merchant in Delhi picture from the main article to here. Doesn't seem very relevant. It would be better to have pictures of merchants in Kashmir. ]] 23:19, 19 July 2008 (UTC) |
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::OK, I have now made the contemporary images more representative of the different regions. I have also removed the instrument of accession, which doesn't belong here. It has its own page. This page is mostly about the Kashmir Region as it existed until 1947. ]] 23:57, 19 July 2008 (UTC) |
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Cheers for that fowler <small>—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 15:53, 20 July 2008 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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==Edits by ]== |
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{{user|Shovon76}} has made two edits which s/he needs to discuss here first. As has been explained many times before (above), this article used to be titled ] and, consequently, is about the region, not just about the Kashmir Valley, and certainly not about political entities like ] or ]. The languages listed in the first sentence are listed in alphabetical order, since no one language represents the entire region. Also, {{user|Shovon76}} seems to have added a reference to an article by William Dalrymple to the list of websites providing information about Kashmir. Articles are properly listed in the "Further Readings" section. Regards, ]] 05:16, 19 August 2008 (UTC) |
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== led zeppelin in see also????! == |
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i feel that the led zep song is quite irreverent to thew article |
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== led zeppelin in see also????! == |
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i feel that the led zep song is quite irreverent to thew article |
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] (]) 20:40, 4 September 2008 (UTC)nish |
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== 'crossed the LOC' == |
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I don't know what an LOC is and the link doesn't help. can someone write it out in full? <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding ] comment added by ] (]) 02:25, 9 October 2008 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot--> |
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== Clearer map? == |
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It would be nice to get a much clearer map of the area; the map supplied shows some geography distorted and is very cluttered. One thing hard to discern are nearby undisputed borders, such as the northern border to China and the Durand line. --] (]) 09:32, 8 December 2008 (UTC) |
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== vandalism after Mumbai attacks == |
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Trafic to this article increased 3 fold after Mumbai attacks. http://stats.grok.se/en/200811/kashmir I rectified a IP troll 203.122.36.6 ] (]) 10:17, 12 December 2008 (UTC) |
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==Nationalistic oneupmanship== |
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Please no nationalistic nickel and diming, be it Chinese, Indian, or Pakistani. The regions administered by each country have their own pages. This page is mostly about the Kashmir region up to 1947. Any detailed material such as demographics of Jammu and Kashmir in 2001 or Azad Kashmir in 1998 etc all belong to their individual pages, not here. The pictures on this page are balanced with respect to the three regions, so please don't change them or add new ones before you discuss them here. Regards, ]] 08:49, 14 December 2008 (UTC) |
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== First Timer - grammar correction == |
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Hey folks, this is my first edit. Was reading about the India/Pakistan situation today and needed a Kashmir refresher. Anyhow, hope this edit ('''militant violent''' to '''militant violence''') is appropriate and correctly submitted. |
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I'm still not happy with <blockquote>as militant violence engulfed the state.</blockquote> Might be better as: |
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- military violence |
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- violence by militants |
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- violence |
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] (]) 16:07, 30 December 2008 (UTC) |
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:Your edit is most correct, as that is exacly what the source says. I too don't much like the term "militant violence", so I've added quotation marks ("as militant violence engulfed the state"). ] (]) 06:20, 24 January 2009 (UTC) |
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== Persian == |
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Before the British invasion of Hindustan, "Persian" was the '''OFFICIAL language''' of Hindustan, including the kashmir. --] (]) 10:59, 15 January 2009 (UTC) |
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:Unfortunately whether or not it was the official language in the past - the fact is that it is not now and is not widely spoken either. ]11:05, 15 January 2009 (UTC) |
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::Unfortunately the language in which the term has been used in the past officially and widely for centuries, should be placed next to the term. --] (]) 11:20, 15 January 2009 (UTC) |
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:::If you are suggesting that Nilamata Purana was written in Persian, you have to provide a reference for that. --] (]) 11:30, 15 January 2009 (UTC) |
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::::I will provide the reference before adding Persian for the next time, but may I know why for "Nilamata Purana"? --] (]) 15:14, 22 January 2009 (UTC) |
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:::::Check the etymology section of the article.--] (]) 15:25, 22 January 2009 (UTC) |
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::::::I checked, but I didn't get my answer. Can you please specify which part? (Copy that part over here) --] (]) 15:32, 6 February 2009 (UTC) |
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These are few examples which are shownig the use of the term "کشمیر" (Kashmir) in ], since around ] ] up to now: |
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{| class="wikitable" |
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! Date |
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! Poet |
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! Poem |
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|- |
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| (935–1020) |
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| ] |
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| «که از تاج و ز تخت و مهر و نگین// همان جامهٔ روم و کشمیر و چین» |
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«ز هر سو بخوانیم برنا و پیر// کجا نامداری بود تیزویر// ز کشمیر وز دنبر و مرغ و مای// وزان تیزویران جوینده رای» |
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«ز کشمیر تا پیش دریای چین // به هر شهر برماکنند آفرین» |
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«همه گرد بر گرد ما دشمنست// جهانی پر از مردم ریمنست// همان شاه کشمیر وفغفور چین// که تنگست از ایشان به ما بر زمین// نکوهیده باشیم ازین هر دو روی// هم از نامداران پرخاشجوی» |
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«ورا بود کشمیر تا مرز چین// برو خواندندی به داد آفرین» |
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«ستارهشناسان و کنداوران// ز کشمیر و کابل گزیده سران// ز آتشپرست و ز یزدانپرست// برفتند با زیج رومی به دست» |
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«بپردازم این تا در هندوان// نداریم تاریک ازین پس روان// ز کشمیر وز کابل و قندهار // شما را بود آن همه زین شمار» |
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«کزان سو که شد رستم شیرمرد// ز کشمیر و کابل برآورد گرد// وزان سو که شد اشکش تیزهوش// برآمد ز خوارزم یکسر خروش» |
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«فرامرز را ده کلاه و نگین// کسی کو بخواهد ز لشکر گزین// بزن کوس رویین و شیپور و نای// بهکشمیر و کابل فزون زین مپای// که ما را سر از جنگ افراسیاب // نیابد همی خورد و آرام و خواب» |
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«ابا کوس و پیل و سپاهی گران// همه رزم جویان و کنداوران// ز کشمیر وز کابل و نیمروز// همه سرفرازان گیتیفروز» |
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«فرنگیس مهتر ز خوبان اوی// نبینی به گیتی چنان موی و روی// به بالا ز سرو سهی برترست// ز مشک سیه بر سرش افسرست// هنرها و دانش ز اندازه بیش// خرد را پرستار دارد به پیش// از افراسیاب ار بخواهی رواست// چنو بت به کشمیر و کابل کجاست» |
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«گو پیلتن رستم زابلیست// ببین تا مر او را همآورد کیست// چو کاموس و منشور و خاقان چین// گهار و چو گرگوی با آفرین// دگر کندر و شنگل آن شاه هند// سپاهی ز کشمیر تا پیش سند» |
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«همانا که شمشیرزن صد هزار// ز دشمن فزون بود در کارزار// کشانی و شگنی و چینی و هند// سپاهی ز چین تا به دریای سند// ز کشمیر تا دامن رود شهد // سراپرده و پیل دیدیم و مهد» |
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«جهاندار محمود شاه بزرگ// به آبشخور آرد همی میش و گرگ// ز کشمیر تا پیش دریای چین// برو شهریاران کنند آفرین» |
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|- |
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| (1126–1189) |
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| ] |
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| «عید بودست آنچه در کشمیر میرفتست ازو// کار این دارد که اکنون در خراسان میرود» |
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|- |
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| (?-1037) |
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| ] |
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| «شاهی است به کشمیر که گر ایزد خواهد// امسال نیاسایم تاکین نکشم زوی» |
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«ما را ره کشمیر همی آرزو آید// ما ز آرزوی خویش نتابیم به یک موی// گاهست که یکباره به کشمیر خرامیم// از دست بتان پهنه کنیم از سر بت گوی// شاهیست به کشمیر، اگر ایزد خواهد// امسال نیارامم تا کین نکشم زوی» |
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|- |
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| (d. 1166) |
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| ] |
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| «وز ناوک مژگان تو در بابل و کشمیر// بسیار صف جادوی مکار شکسته» |
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|- |
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| 1141 – 1209 |
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| ] |
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| «بریشم نوازان سغدی سرود// به گردون برآورده آواز رود// سرایندگان ره پهلوی// ز بس نغمه داده نوا را نوی// همان پایکوبان کشمیرزاد// معلق زن از رقص چون دیو باد// ز یونانیان ارغنونزن بسی// که بردند هوش از دل هرکسی// کمر بسته رومی و چینی بههم // برآورده از روم و از چین علم» |
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«یکی گفتا که در اقصای کشمیر// ز شیرینی نباشد هیچ تقصیر// یکی گفتا سزای بزم شاهان// شکر نامی است در شهر سپاهان// به شکر بر ز شیرینیش بیداد // وزو شکر به خوزستان به فریاد» |
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|- |
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| (1184 – 1283/1291?) |
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| ] |
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| «آن کیست که میرود به نخجیر// پای دل دوستان به زنجیر// همشیره جادوان بابل// همسایه لعبتان کشمیر// اینست بهشت اگر شنیدی// کز دیدن آن جوان شود پیر// از عشق کمان دست و بازوش// افتاده خبر ندارد از تیر// نقاش که صورتش ببیند// از دست بیفکند تصاویر» |
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«بدین کمال ندارند حسن در کشمیر// چنین بلیغ ندانند سحر در بابل// به خال مشکین بر خد احمرش گویی// نهادهاند بر آتش به نام من فلفل» |
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|- |
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| 11th century |
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| ] |
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| «تا بت کشمیر بود جعد موی// تا زن بدمهر بود جنگجوی// تا زبر سرو کند گفتگوی// بلبل خوشگوی به آواز زار» |
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|- |
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| (1280-1352) |
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| ] |
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| «گه ز چین زلف او صد شور در چین میفتاد// گه ز چشم جادوش صد فتنه در کشمیر بود// دوش ترکی تیغزن را مست میدیدیم بهخواب// چون بدیدم چشم شوخ دلبرم تعبیر بود» |
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«دامن خرگه برافکن ای بت کشمیر// سرو قباپوش و آفتاب جهانگیر// چهرهٔ خوب تو رشک لعبت نوشاد// نرگس مستت بلای جادوی کشمیر// نقش جمالت نگارخانهٔ مانی// خط سیاه تو روزنامهٔ تقدیر» |
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«به سحر نرگس جادوی دلبر کشمیر// به چین سنبل هندوی لعبت نوشاد// به تاب طره لیلی و شورش مجنون// به شور شکر شیرین و تلخی فرهاد» |
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|- |
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| (born 1145-46 in Nishapur – died c. 1221) |
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| ] |
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| «نرگس جادوت دل از من ربود // گفت که این جادوی کشمیر کرد// جادوی کشمیر نیارد همی // پیش تو یک مسئله تقریر کرد» |
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|- |
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| (1884-1951) |
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| ] |
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| «نوروز فر خجسته فراز آمد// در موکبش بهار خوش دلبر// آن یک طراز مجلس و کاخ بزم// این یک طراز گلشن و دشت و در// آن بزم را طرازد چون کشمیر// این باغ را بسازد چون کشمر» |
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--] (]) 16:19, 6 February 2009 (UTC) |
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:There are many other languages (want to count how many Indian languages are there?) in which the word 'Kashmir' has been and is being used. That logic does not prompt us to add Kashmir's name in all those languages here (English Misplaced Pages).--] (]) 11:58, 10 February 2009 (UTC) |
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==Irredentist edits on related pages== |
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I am bringing to your attention some pages related historically to the Kashmir region that have been the focus of ] edits, especially by one editor, ]. The pages are ], ], and ]. The editor is claiming the region between Aksai Chin and the Kunlun Mountains for the ]; this even the Government of India doesn't claim. See in particular, ] for my perspective on these edits. In addition, one image file, ], which {{user|Hindutashravi}} claims belongs to the Simla Convention of 1913, but which seems at the very least illegible and at the worst bogus, needs to be deleted. I would urge NPOV-minded editors to help out in countering such bizarre POV-pushing on Misplaced Pages. Regards, ]] 12:40, 10 February 2009 (UTC) |
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:PS The editor claims that ] is ''his'' page, however, that was created by the ] (before I made my first edit on 8 July 2007). This is what the page became as a result of my edits . All the references and maps were added by me, and some, such as the NASA map, were even labeled by me. ]] 12:50, 10 February 2009 (UTC) |
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::These are reasonable concerns to raise, especially the idea that a user has some personal relationship with any page. ] (]) 08:17, 11 February 2009 (UTC) |
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== Unconstructive edits... == |
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== Unconstructive edits... == |
Would Somebody please explain to me that why some editors are vandalizing this topic with poorly sourced Unconstructive edits...for example...It is calimed by some editors without reference that Pashtun Tribals RAPED Kashmirir women....Now when in God's name did the Pashtuns came in Kashmir....It was the Local tribes of Kashmir who fought in 1947 not people from NWFP....And Weren't Kasmiri's the one who called the Pakistani Army for help....Then why the hell would Pakistani Army and tribals rape Kashmiri women....They were the one's DEFENDING them....I have given a proper reference but somebody keeps removing it....This issue is getting out of hand....We need to come to a common understanding to create Neutral topic...Adil your (talk) 23:04, 8 March 2009 (UTC)
Referencing and citation: not checked
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