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Elwood Haynes

Nominator(s): Charles Edward (Talk) 15:00, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

• Featured article candidates/Elwood Haynes/archive1

• Featured article review/Elwood Haynes/archive1

A week and half has been spent researching the topic and the article has been put through a successful GA review. I believe it is now comprehensive and ready to be a featured article. Charles Edward (Talk) 15:00, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

Question When I put "Elwood Haynes" into my library database, I also get this biography: Elwood Haynes : 1857-1925 : inventor, scientist, metallurgist, industrialist, educator, philanthropist by Wallace Huffman. Any reason why it wasn't used, considering the small number of sources available on Haynes? Awadewit (talk) 18:57, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

I went to my library to find that book specifically, but they did not have it. But that is where I found Alloys and Automobiles, by Gray. Which I found to be very comprehensive. When used along with the book on the Haynes-Apperson company and what was available from the Indiana Historical Society, I feel that I was able to get a complete picture of Haynes. Charles Edward (Talk) 20:07, 29 April 2009 (UTC)

How can you be sure that the article is comprehensive if you haven't seen the book, though? I would offer to help, since I have access to the book, but I can't until next week - this is finals week. Awadewit (talk) 02:49, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

It's apparently just 20 pages long and published by a local historical society 45 years ago. It's worth tracking down but having seen a few biographies like this I wouldn't get my hopes up. --Chiliad22 (talk) 03:21, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

I am familiar with several books by Ralph Gray, from which about 60% of the article is sourced, and I have found his books to always be very comprehensive. It is the only biography aside from the one you mentioned that I found while searching for sources, and after reading it I believe it is truly exhausting on the topic. The primary notability of Haynes is his inventions and companies, and secondarily his brief political career and part in the Indiana Gas Boom. A third tier would perhaps be his philanthropy and awards, and a couple lawsuits he was involved in. For the most important parts of his life (autos and inventions) I was able to get quite a few sources, and used the best few for the article. Between them all, I think all the important and secondary aspects of the life are covered well, and to a fair degree the third tier of things. Charles Edward (Talk) 12:38, 6 May 2009 (UTC)

• Comments - sources look okay, links not checked with the link checker tool, as it was misbehaving. Ealdgyth - Talk 17:09, 3 May 2009 (UTC)

• A few things:
  • "he formed the first profitable company in the United States to commercially produce automobiles." - this seems redundant, profitable and commercially. If you're producing a profit aren't you automatically doing engaging in commercial activities? I'd suggest "he formed the first company in the United States to profitably produce automobiles."
    • Adjusted as you suggested. I was trying to contrast, he was the second company to produce cars commercially, but the first company was not profitable and went out of business. But saying first profitable company carries the same meaning. Charles Edward (Talk) 13:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
  • "His frequent travels drew his interest to the idea of creating a mechanical means of transportation" this is kind of awkward... numerous mechanical means of transportation already existed (steam ship and train, most obviously). Can you be more specific about his inspiration?
    • Changed to "to the idea of a mechanical vehicle that could travel without need of a horse,". Somewhat better I think.
  • "Haynes Stellite Company was formed" passive voice can be fixed here
    • Fixed Charles Edward (Talk) 13:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
  • "built a melting furnace" - are you sure the source doesn't say smelting furnace?
    • Spelling error, you are correct. Fixed Charles Edward (Talk) 13:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
  • "add some fun to his time" - this just seems like an awkward phrase. Can you find a more common expression?
    • Changed to "find other activities to take part in". Charles Edward (Talk) 13:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
  • "His graduation thesis was entitled " - more passive voice, might need to rewrite the sentence
    • Fixed.. I think Charles Edward (Talk) 13:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
  • "one paper referred to him" - which paper?
    • Added Charles Edward (Talk) 13:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
  • "main gas pipeline was laid between Portland" - more passive voice, might need to rewrite the sentence
    • Fixed. Charles Edward (Talk) 13:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
  • "that would be the first long distance" - I think this should be "which would"?
    • Fixed. Charles Edward (Talk) 13:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
  • "Haynes was put in charge of the proposed pipeline", "entire set of regulations was repealed" - more passive voice
    • Fixed Charles Edward (Talk) 13:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Why did he stay at Indiana Gas if he didn't want to be associated with a corrupt company?
    • The source indicates he didn't want to move to Chicago where he perceived the corruption was at and where he could potentially become entangled in it, not that he wanted to leave the company altogether, so he instead sought a position more removed from Chicago. I have clarified that. Charles Edward (Talk) 13:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
  • "he began laying out 'plans..'" when?
    • 1891, added. Charles Edward (Talk) 13:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
  • "Haynes' car is believed to be the second gasoline-engine powered vehicle to be successfully road tested in the United States" - believed by who?
    • All but one of my sources says the second, but one says first and discounts the Duryea car. The Smithsonian lists it as second, I will go with that. Charles Edward (Talk) 13:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Article has some excess details... some lines I noticed that don't really seem to contribute anything to the story:
    • "He attempted to experiment with steel, but was unable to heat the furnace enough to work it" - no impact, doesn't seem important
      • Removed Charles Edward (Talk) 13:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
    • "his ancestors immigrated to New England in 1689" debatable but I'm not really sure how critical this genealogy is
      • I think it is worth leaving his ancestry. It always helps to know where a person is "from" when building a background sketch of them. Charles Edward (Talk) 13:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
    • "and once played on the school's unofficial football team in an attempt to make his time there more enjoyable." not really important?
      • Removed it, it was intended to be part of the response to his mother's advice to do something more fun at school. Charles Edward (Talk) 13:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
    • "The school was five miles (8 km.) from his home and he found the walk to be time consuming." a detail that doesn't really seem necessary
      • One of the sources uses to this to indicate early experience with inefficient means of transportation, but I think that is kind of grasping myself. I have removed it. Charles Edward (Talk) 13:15, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
  • Some of these are just suggestions (especially the excess details that could be omitted). --Chiliad22 (talk) 00:38, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
• Support all my nitpicks have been addressed. This article did have issues with too much trivial detail and excessive use of the passive voice, but it's all been addressed. I'm not too concerned with the 1965 biography not being cited... see my above comment. --Chiliad22 (talk) 13:53, 6 May 2009 (UTC)
• Support I have been copy editing this article through GA and here. It gives a clearly written and comprehensive picture of an interesting chapter in automotive history. Just some comments:

• "Without a spare tire, Haynes was unable to run in the contest. The race was held on April 7, and thousands of spectators turned out. Duryea's car won first place and a German Benz came in second. Another contest was held in which Haynes won a prize for most intuitive design." I am confused about the contest and the race. If Haynes was unable to run in the contest, but he won first place in the race? I guess the contest and the race are different?

—Mattisse (Talk) 20:54, 7 May 2009 (UTC)