Revision as of 20:29, 2 September 2009 editBatteryIncluded (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers48,192 edits →Merger proposal with Martian spiders.← Previous edit | Revision as of 20:43, 2 September 2009 edit undoCyclopia (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers12,118 edits →Merger proposal with Martian spiders.: re to batteryincluded + comment:you should not vote on your own proposalsNext edit → | ||
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Although their nature is not yet undestrood, it is '''unquestionable''' that scientists are presenting models that treat them as the '''same phenomena'''. ] (]) 20:29, 2 September 2009 (UTC) | Although their nature is not yet undestrood, it is '''unquestionable''' that scientists are presenting models that treat them as the '''same phenomena'''. ] (]) 20:29, 2 September 2009 (UTC) | ||
:What is unquestionable is that ''some'' scientists are treating them as ''possibly'' a ''manifestation of the same underlying phenomenon''. This means that 1. Apparently there is no ] on that, 2. They are hypothesis yet to be proven (and they are even wildly different between each other, if you go reading the papers) (which rationalizes point 1) and 3. They are not conjectured to be the same thing by at least one source, but to be different chronological phases of an underlying phenomenon. Eggs and chickens are different phases of the same phenomenon, yet they can be described separately. --] (]) 20:43, 2 September 2009 (UTC) | |||
*'''Comment''' (A wikiquette concern) Ehm, BatteryIncluded, you are the one who nominated the thing: it is ''obvious'' you are strongly in favour. It makes no sense for you to repeat your own arguments multiple times, it only gives a skewed apperance of the debate. For short, you should not vote on your own proposals: you of course should discuss it with voters. --] (]) 20:43, 2 September 2009 (UTC) |
Revision as of 20:43, 2 September 2009
DDS dynamics? Huh?
Hello, could someone please explain DDS dynamics in the article, or find the appropriate article to link to? There isn't any article on DDS dynamics right now. Thank you. LovesMacs (talk) 19:57, 18 November 2008 (UTC)
- Oops! DDS = Dark Dune Spots. -BatteryIncluded (talk) 04:45, 19 November 2008 (UTC)
Merger proposal with Martian spiders.
Merger proposal with Martian spiders because it is thought that the "spider webs" and the Martian dark dune spots may be related features caused by the same phenomena. In other words, it is evident that different researchers give different names to the same features. See: "NASA Findings Suggest Jets Bursting From Martian Ice Cap". Jet Propulsion Laboratory. NASA. August 16, 2006. Retrieved 2009-08-11. {{cite news}}
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Cheers, BatteryIncluded (talk) 03:41, 11 August 2009 (UTC)
Scientific sources to this:
1.- Kereszturi, A., ed. (2009), "POSSIBLE LIQUID-LIKE WATER PRODUCED SEEPAGE FEATURES ON MARS." (PDF), 40th. Lunar and Planetary Science Conference (2009), retrieved 2009-08-12 {{citation}}
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2.- "NASA Findings Suggest Jets Bursting From Martian Ice Cap". Jet Propulsion Laboratory. NASA. August 16, 2006. Retrieved 2009-08-11. {{cite news}}
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3.- Bérczi, Sz., ed. (2004), "STRATIGRAPHY OF SPECIAL LAYERS – TRANSIENT ONES ON PERMEABLE ONES: EXAMPLES" (PDF), Lunar and Planetary Science XXXV (2004), retrieved 2009-08-12 {{citation}}
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4.- They are unusual dark spots, fans and blotches, with small radial channel networks often associated with the location of spots. Ref:Kieffer, Hugh H. (30 May 2006). "CO2 jets formed by sublimation beneath translucent slab ice in Mars' seasonal south polar ice cap". Nature. 442: 793–796. Error: Bad DOI specified!. Retrieved 2009-09-02. {{cite journal}}
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5.- The 'Martian Spider' web page has dozens of images of radial troughs or channels with identical morphology to Dark Dune Spots (DDS); some examples: , , , , , , , , , BatteryIncluded (talk) 23:43, 1 September 2009 (UTC)
- Strongly oppose, at least in the current wording:
- Sources 1,2,3 do not provide any evidence that spiders and DDS are the same thing. They clearly talk of them as separate objects: in 1 there is this listing: "Various polar albedo features appear on Mars in springtime, like spiders ,dark spots, Dalmatian spots, and Dark Dune Spots (DDSs)" ; 2 provide some evidence of a theory about them being related but again not of being synonimous; 3 connects them in time (but doesn't say it's the same thing!only different phases of the same phenomenon) in Fig.5 which is described by authors as an highly hypothetical evolutionary scheme.
- Merging on the basis of points 4 and 5 falls within WP:OR and as such does not look acceptable.
- If there is good scientific consensus on a phenomenon that describes them both where they can be merged, all good, but the current sources do not seem to indicate that. -- Cyclopia (talk) 09:04, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
Strongly in favor based on all scientific reports cited above, including (ironically) Cyclopia's own edit and supporting sources:
"They are possibly related with Martian spiders, dark spots and Dalmatian spots, all of them being external manifestations of the same phenomenon or different phases of a same process."
- Kereszturi, A., ed. (2009), "POSSIBLE LIQUID-LIKE WATER PRODUCED SEEPAGE FEATURES ON MARS." (PDF), 40th. Lunar and Planetary Science Conference (2009), retrieved 2009-08-12
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(help) - Bérczi, Sz., ed. (2004), "STRATIGRAPHY OF SPECIAL LAYERS – TRANSIENT ONES ON PERMEABLE ONES: EXAMPLES" (PDF), Lunar and Planetary Science XXXV (2004), retrieved 2009-08-12
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Although their nature is not yet undestrood, it is unquestionable that scientists are presenting models that treat them as the same phenomena. BatteryIncluded (talk) 20:29, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
- What is unquestionable is that some scientists are treating them as possibly a manifestation of the same underlying phenomenon. This means that 1. Apparently there is no scientific consensus on that, 2. They are hypothesis yet to be proven (and they are even wildly different between each other, if you go reading the papers) (which rationalizes point 1) and 3. They are not conjectured to be the same thing by at least one source, but to be different chronological phases of an underlying phenomenon. Eggs and chickens are different phases of the same phenomenon, yet they can be described separately. --Cyclopia (talk) 20:43, 2 September 2009 (UTC)
- Comment (A wikiquette concern) Ehm, BatteryIncluded, you are the one who nominated the thing: it is obvious you are strongly in favour. It makes no sense for you to repeat your own arguments multiple times, it only gives a skewed apperance of the debate. For short, you should not vote on your own proposals: you of course should discuss it with voters. --Cyclopia (talk) 20:43, 2 September 2009 (UTC)