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Revision as of 14:30, 13 February 2010

About My PROD tagging

The discretion I use when deciding whether or not to place a PROD tag on a BLP is simple: is it referenced? If not, I place a tag. If it's poorly referenced, I look a bit deeper, and either place the tag, or stub-ify. I never take much more than a minute or so, and I'm not going to research 50K+ unreferenced BLPs. The tagging has worked, as several of the articles are now being sourced. I'm not going to stop doing it, so I respectfully ask that any notifications that someone has removed the PROD (while adding references) leave out any lectures on that issue. It's not going to change.

Here is where I will be manually archiving any DYK or ITN notices.

This is Unitanode's talk page, where you can send him messages and comments.

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This is Unitanode's talk page, where you can send him messages and comments.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic. New to Misplaced Pages? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help. Assume good faith Be polite and avoid personal attacks Be welcoming to newcomers Seek dispute resolution if needed

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I edit some political articles; please read this before accusing me of bias.

My votes in the last four presidential elections: Clinton, Bush, Bush, Obama. I do not have a bias for (or against) any political party.

Your move

Your move of the appropriately-titled "Whataya Want From Me" to the inappropriately titled "Whataya Want from Me" is wrong-headed, in my view. However, if MOS guidelines do, in fact, overrule what the reliable sources call the song, then there are a ton more moves in order. Any works by e e cummings that employ his idiosyncratic spelling need moved or fixed. Also, k.d. lang (and other such artists) should be moved to the appropriate spelling. If MOS overrules RS, then it should apply accross the board. UnitAnode 15:38, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

I only moved as I saw the consensus lie. You're welcome to establish consensus for other moves, or perform them if they aren't controversial. Stifle (talk) 19:19, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

The problem with that is the consensus was simply favoring a guideline over established policy. Consensus does not trump policy. UnitAnode 19:28, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Please consider signing our proposal.

A number of editors have been working on a proposal regarding the renaming of the Climatic Research Unit hacking incident and we are now in the process of working with people individually to try and garner support for this proposal. Please review the proposal and if you are willing to support and defend it please add your name to the list of signatories. If you have comments or concerns regarding the proposal please feel free to discuss them here. The goal of this effort is to find a name that everyone can live with and to make that name stick by having a strong show of unified support for it moving forward. Thanks. --GoRight (talk) 19:22, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

PS - I understand that this may not be your first choice but it would be good for the project if we all came together on a name that everyone can live with and then defend that. Please consider the proposal above in the light of being a good compromise position for all. Thanks. --GoRight (talk) 19:22, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm still thinking about this. Personally, the only advantage I see to the new title is the removal of the silly "hacking" label. UnitAnode 19:30, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Well, then this would at least be a small "win" for you, no? And climategate will remain a redirect so is it really that important to make the actual article be named climategate. I agree there are reasons why it could/should be named that, I have even argued for such in the past, but these renaming polls solve nothing and just keep fanning the flames of discontent. The writing is on the wall that we have to find a better way to work together. If you agree with that then take this small step for the greater good. Take your time and think it over. The proposal will be there if you decide to come on board. Thanks for your consideration. --GoRight (talk) 19:37, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

I personally believe that the embarrassment caused by the hackneyed silliness of the current name needs to mount before anything will get better. That said, I'm probably actually closer in my views on the underlying science to those who are "pro-AGW" than I am to the skeptics. I just have a huge issue with all the impediments that have been thrown up against making necessary changes in the GW articles. I will think on it, but right now I'm 50/50 at best on supporting what I consider to be an equally-hackneyed, though slightly less silly, title. Also, I'm not so much interested in chalking up a "win" (even a minor one), as getting things right. And right now, I'm just still wondering whether the new title is that much more "right" than the current one. UnitAnode 19:41, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

OK, fair enough. We all have our reasons. I wouldn't support the proposed title if I didn't consider to be appropriate, though, so what about it makes you refer to it as hackneyed? I see it as a rather bland, no frills description of the whole affair. --GoRight (talk) 19:47, 9 February 2010 (UTC)

Edit summary language

This edit summary uses a pun which IMHO is intended to escalate (as opposed to neutralize). While I'm a firm believer in users managing personal talk pages as they wish, I encourage you to recognize that inflaming a situation usually isn't as effective as diffusing a situation, when possible. Good editing. BusterD (talk) 03:37, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

• He's very good at baiting and harassing, what can I say? There was nothing in my edit summary that in any way violated policy. As for "intending to escalate", I'd told him multiple times he was unwelcome here after how he behaved toward Giano, and his response when I approached him about it. He continued posting here, so I removed it, with what I felt was an appropriate edit summary, given with whom I was conversing. Good editing to you as well, Scottaka UnitAnode 05:10, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I appreciate your considering my suggestion. Thanks. BusterD (talk) 16:28, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

"you're becoming quite a master harasser and master baiter" is undoubtedly a personal attack. Consider this another warning. Cool Hand Luke 16:36, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Consider this me raising a proverbial middle finger to your warning me for an edit summary after Tbdsy refused to quit harassing me. Scottaka UnitAnode 17:51, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

But just know that what you did was not acceptable. It's also, notably, not anything like the treatment you received from Tbdsy. Cool Hand Luke 18:51, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I don't have any idea how you came upon my interactions with Tbdsy. It doesn't matter all that much. I approached him about his inappropriate refactoring of Giano's comments at a policy page. He was dismissive. And then kept after me, even after I asked him to stop multiple times. Does the fact that he doesn't do punny edit summaries mitigate in his favor or something? Either way, I don't really give a damn what you think is "not acceptable" or what you think is "also, notably, not anything like the treatment you received from Tbdsy." Isn't that the whole point of someone like him harassing and baiting people? If it's done cleverly, and the person observing doesn't look carefully, it makes the person who was being harassed and baited look like the bad guy. He did that first to Giano, and then to me. But with all that said, if you leave any more "warnings" that are this inane on my talkpage, I'll simply be reverting them unread. It's odd, because you used to be one of the good guys. Scottaka UnitAnode 19:20, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

You're right. Your interaction with Tbdsy does in fact look like harassment—him asking you repeatedly to stop editing his page and you instead doing it repeatedly. If you believe it's bait, you shouldn't take it. Simple as that. Cool Hand Luke 19:30, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I approached him about how his refactoring of Giano's comments at that talkpage were inappropriate. We discussed that for a bit, and then he slapped some weird, self-created template at the end that said something like "conversation over" or something like that. All the while, he continued posting at my page, after I repeatedly asked him not to do so. What the hell is your problem with me, anyways? When did you become the fucking civility police? Scottaka UnitAnode 19:41, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I saw that. Tbsdy laid it out in chronological order, and you surprisingly linked to it on your user page. I don't have a problem with you. In fact, you probably would have never heard from me if I didn't think you're absolutely right about the BLP issue (among other things). I would prefer that people on "my side" don't lay into people who disagree with them on-wiki; it makes them harder to take seriously. Cool Hand Luke 19:49, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I linked to it because I thought his idiotic "summary" was, well, "idiotic." If you'd like a point-by-point refutation of why, then I'll (very reluctantly) give you one. But I'll only do this if you rescind the inane "warning" you gave me about calling a spade a spade. Scottaka UnitAnode 19:51, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

I cannot imagine that your interpretation of events could justify the personal attack I quoted, so I cannot promise to do anything, but it might be a good idea to explain why you believe the summary paints you in a false light. Cool Hand Luke 20:11, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Since you are insisting on interpreting my edit summary as a "personal attack", when it was simply descriptive of what Tbdsy was doing, then I'll assume that you'll be equally predisposed to dismiss what actually happened in our interaction. As for the BLP thing, I note with interest that you're not among those who have dropped me an encouraging note (either on-wiki or off-) that my efforts were in some way appreciated. Most people who "agree" have been content to sit on the sidelines, letting the pointless RFC discussion wend and wind into oblivion, while the problem persists, and even grows. As such -- and combined with bullshit like Tbdsy (and now you) are perpetuating -- I'm just about to the point where I throw up my hands and say, "Fine, you win, have the project and all the headaches and timesink that go with it."To COM below: be careful. You said "fuck", which is sanctionable, in some people's minds. 20:22, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

You were commenting on something he was "becoming," and this was somehow a comment on his behavior? Would "you are X" be a personal attack in your mind (after all, that's only a comment about being which is behavior)? Would anything be a personal attack?

Anyhow, I appreciate what you've done. If you can do it without randomly cussing people out, that would be super. Cool Hand Luke 20:38, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

For fuck's goodness sake Luke, go enforce the rules on the perennial disrupters like Connelley and Tarc and Roux and stop wasting people's time. He made a pun about master baiters. Get the fuck fudge over it and move on. Your disruptive nonsense is absurd. Misplaced Pages is infested with disruptive POV pushers and trolls who do real damage to collegiality and content. So why you've joined up with the likes of Chillum and GeorgeWilliamHerbert who go after good faith editors they don't like I have no idea. Stop jabbing those frustrated with the idiocy and abusive behaviors that go on here and start confronting the actual problem. ChildofMidnight (talk) 20:20, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

ChildofMidnight, I would greatly appreciate it if you could stop obsessing over me and doing this name-dropping thing whenever and wherever you perceive the Heavy Hand of the Allmighty Cabal. Several of your AN/I filings have failed. Barber's AN/I failed. Sooner or later you will just have to accept that I have not done a thing wrong to anyone in this project. Curb your profanity-laced tirades and stop stirring up the situation.

I have no beef with Unitanode, but I'd have to ask him about once considering Luke a "good guy", but now apparently no longer. Maybe it is possible that if a "good guy" warns you about something, that there might be some merit to it rather than saying that he has lost his "good" status. I can see your frustration with Tbdsy, but remember what the Deteriorata said; 2 wrongs never make a right, but 3 lefts do. Tarc (talk) 20:31, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

(To both Tarc and Luke) -- I guess I'm just completely mystified by how a snarky edit summary describing what he was doing as baiting and harassing merits a warning. As for your accusation that I "randomly cuss people out", Luke, that's just patently absurd. If I use foul language, it's not random at all. And saying that Tbdsy is a "master harasser and master baiter" is simply a punnier way of saying "stop harassing and baiting both me and Giano." I don't accept the legitimacy of this warning, and completely reject the premise it was based upon: that this was somehow a personal attack. He was harassing and baiting both Giano and myself, and I had asked him to stop. When he didn't do so, I reverted his post with a punny edit summary calling a spade a spade. If you don't like it, fine. But it's not blockable, except by those who fancy themselves civility police. Scottaka UnitAnode 21:05, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

saying that Tbdsy is a "master harasser and master baiter" is simply a punnier way of saying "stop harassing and baiting both me and Giano."

This doesn't fly; by this rationale calling someone any name under the sun is just a more foul/snarky/ way of saying "gee, I don't like your behavior." Can you give me an example of something you believe would be a personal attack? Cool Hand Luke 01:02, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

But he didn't call anyone a name. He made funny. That's what a pun is. Are you unfamiliar with that mode of humor? Surely we have an article on the subject. Try pun.

I'm more than happy to give you an example of a personal attack Cool Hand Luke, but I'm 100% the trolls and disruptive monkeys will use it against me. But if you really really want me to let fly I'll take your word that permission has been granted and I'll show you what a personal attack looks like. ChildofMidnight (talk) 01:49, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

No, I asked UnitAnode. It's all very well and good to say that it's a way of saying , but one could make this argument for any personal attack. Cool Hand Luke 02:01, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Oh, I made it very clear in that edit summary that I was stating that he was harassing and baiting both Giano and me, but doing so in a different sort of way that was intended to be funny -- and was, if I do say so myself. Scottaka UnitAnode 02:08, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

You did say that, and it was fine. Then you went on to make a personal attack. Do you believe that personal attacks are excused when they are allegedly funny, or do you think that personal attacks simply don't exist? Given your rationales, it's not clear to me that you think anything would be a personal attack when one could invariably claim that it's a comment on behavior—as you have here, implausibly. Cool Hand Luke 02:14, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I think that "You're a dumbass motherfucker" is a personal attack. Saying that someone "is becoming a master harasser and master baiter" is simply a punny way to say, "cut the crap." I mean, someone dropped a personal attacks warning on me for saying "Cut the bullshit" when William M. Connolley directly lied about me in the statement to which I was responding. When is this civility police bullshit going to stop? Scottaka UnitAnode 02:45, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

What if they precede it by saying, "I think your proposals ignore our policies, and even if this were not true, it's fundamentally illogical. You're a dumbass motherfucker." Isn't that even funnier than your pun? By your logic, why should it be a personal attack? It's just a Samuel L. Jackson way of saying, "no, that's not a good idea." Cool Hand Luke 02:51, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Now you're being facetious. That you think that a clear pun on my earlier statement, in the same edit summary is anywhere in the same zip code -- hell, even on the same continent -- as "you're a dumbass motherfucker" completely removes reason from the equation. Therefore, I think we're done now. Scottaka UnitAnode 03:30, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm not being facetious at all. I did find your pun clear, but I also found the personal attack clear, and I actually find your comment both more uncivil and less funny than my hypothetical. Humor is not universal; I hope you consider that before saving another "funny" personal attack. I'm not here to score points or get you blocked; I would actually like to make the environment here less vicious. Thanks in advance for any efforts you make along these lines. Cool Hand Luke 03:38, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Aye, there's the rub: your goal is "less vicious"; mine is "less treating editors like they're in the second grade." We're all big people here. Even if someone made the comment, "You're a dumbass motherfucker" to me, I wouldn't be running to ANI with it, demanding a ban. And, if they were clever enough to say something like, "I am SICK of your motherfucking dumbassery on my my motherfucking talkpage", I'd probably even give them a barnstar. We're all (or at least most of us) grownups here. Sometimes grownups get angry and even curse. You shouldn't poke them when they're angry, and you shouldn't cry when they bite you after you poke them. Scottaka UnitAnode 03:54, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Honestly, "you're becoming quite a master harasser and master baiter" is not something I would expect an alleged adult to say. YMMV. Cool Hand Luke 04:14, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Honestly, not everyone finds juvenile puns funny. I happen to be a person who does. I also found it very true about the way the person to whom I was addressing it was treating Giano and myself. And what the hell does "YMMV" mean? Scottaka UnitAnode 04:18, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

In accord with your wishes, I will treat you as an adult and assume that you can do your own research on that question. Do try to be aware that your "jokes" are easily perceived as personal attacks. Thanks again. Cool Hand Luke 04:22, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Well, I strongly disagree with Cool Hand Luke's opposition to puns. It seems a very puritanical position to me, and if we can't laugh off the abuse that goes on here we'll all end up very unhappy people. I have noticed, though, that some your rhetoric gets heated at times Unitanode. So perhaps it's just Luke's way of letting you know to be careful. There are lots of adolescents and teens running around looking for an excuse to cause disruption by pushing buttons willy nilly. Cheerios. Sorry for butting in. Perhaps it's just a case where what we have here is a failure to communicate. Your mileage may vary (I had to look it up). I find overuse of unfunny acronyms to be highly uncivil, but perhaps it's not a blockable offense? ChildofMidnight (talk) 19:54, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

Perhaps this kind of civility enforcement on good faith editors who call out master harassers and master baiters is why we keep losing good editors. How about addressing the problem instead of those who react to it CHL? It's time the abusive taunters, stalkers, and disruptiove harassers are dealt with instead of going after those who rise to confront their abuse. ChildofMidnight (talk) 17:49, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

• Its entertaining to have Unitanode's talk page on one's watchlist. I am sure he's only advising other editors to be careful lest they go blind.--Milowent (talk) 19:29, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

  ...says the man whose palms are so hairy he can barely type. Scottaka UnitAnode 19:42, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

• It's quite a bit like Malleus Fatuorum's talk page. Lots of drama! Sort of the alter ego of the civil Misplaced Pages! Makes a mockery of some of the "be nice" conventions! —mattisse (Talk) 01:54, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I'm glad I could provide a spot of entertainment for you two. Scottaka UnitAnode 03:59, 11 February 2010 (UTC)

I was amused. - Tbsdy (formerly Ta bu shi da yu) 11:57, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

I sprayed coffee all over my keyboard, yes i am that juvenile :) mark nutley (talk) 11:59, 13 February 2010 (UTC)

Weisbrot

• Misplaced Pages:Sockpuppet investigations/Scalabrineformvp SandyGeorgia (Talk) 22:33, 10 February 2010 (UTC)

Your revert

Your revert here is unexplained. I started a topic on the talk-page about this. Perhaps you'd like to explain there? The Telegraph got things wrong, as all newspapers once in a while do, we (as editors) shouldn't insert information that can be demonstrated as being incorrect. --Kim D. Petersen (talk) 14:30, 13 February 2010 (UTC)