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Formal mediation has been requested

Formal mediation of the dispute relating to Senkaku Islands has been requested. As an editor concerned in this dispute, you are invited to participate in the mediation. The process of mediation is voluntary and focuses exclusively on the content issues over which there is disagreement. For an explanation of what formal mediation is, see Misplaced Pages:Mediation Committee/Policy. Please now review the request page and the guide to formal mediation, and then, in the "party agreement" section, indicate whether you agree to participate. Discussion relating to the mediation request is welcome at the case talk page.

Message delivered by MediationBot (talk) on behalf of the Mediation Committee. 04:46, 25 April 2011 (UTC)

Request for mediation accepted

This message is to inform you that a request for formal mediation of the dispute concerning Senkaku Islands, in which you were listed as a party, has been accepted by the Mediation Committee. Mediation of this dispute will begin within two weeks (once a mediator has been assigned to the case), so please add the case page to your watchlist.

• For an explanation of what is involved in formal mediation, see Misplaced Pages:Mediation Committee/Policy#Mediation
• For a guide to accepted cases, see Misplaced Pages:Requests for mediation/Guide#Case phase

The entirety of the above two pages (the MedCom policy and the guide to formal mediation) are also important reading for editors who are new to formal mediation. If you have any questions, please post them onto the case talk page, or contact the MedCom mailing list.

For the Mediation Committee, AGK 15:14, 5 May 2011 (UTC)
(Delivered by MediationBot, on behalf of the Mediation Committee.)

Re

Glad that you have been back. I have been badly busy now too. I am not the "main driver" and I saw reasonable suggestions from STSC and PHead128 not long before. The environment of the dispute has made me having less and less confidence on the coming mediation. Thanks for your message. --Lvhis (talk) 17:45, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

I am back mostly to witness this mediation. Your lack of confidence on the process is understandable. I view it as little more than a formality that User:Qwyrxian and others intend to pursue. It's commendable that you stuck around for all this time, since these content debates are quite unproductive exercises. Bobthefish2 (talk) 22:14, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Pinnacle Islands

Yes Bob, I also like the dual name solution but Misplaced Pages does not seem to endorse a dual name very much. In any case, I would support the dual name argument in the mediation process. STSC (talk) 12:05, 1 June 2011 (UTC)

Bob and STSC, thank both of you for your input and efforts. My thought is to go step by step: step1, the "SI" is a POV one; Step2, choose either dual one or the English "PI". Step1 is very critical. --Lvhis (talk) 00:53, 2 June 2011 (UTC)

The argument

Bob, I am too busy to input my whole thought on the argument in one time. Maybe the incontinuity causes some problem. I am still working on it. Thanks.--Lvhis (talk) 04:09, 3 June 2011 (UTC)

Bob, you have done a good job in your section "The Practice of Unscientific Research". When I was close to finish my section "the SI is not a English name but ..." and then read through your section, I feel my one sounds echoing your one with specifics, as your one was more in principle and theoretical way. Hope these two are of complement to each other. I feel this long standing dispute has been with "penny-wise and pound-foolish" tricks which we need to avoid, and in addition, a trick of "Wikilawyering". As for the poll, I mostly agree on your vote. I had my concern left in STSC's talk page . Thanks. --Lvhis (talk) 05:59, 5 June 2011 (UTC)

I thought the poll's kind of useless and distractive, but I took part in it anyway since it's not such a big deal. My feeling is that we should spend more time discussing the science behind this little research project than wasting time making premature opinions on various data collection methods.

By the way, you should take a look at Phoenix7777's data in here. It's a classic case of how impressive results can be cooked up. I've made a few reassessments of his data and the significance of his results had then unsurprisingly vanished. I'd encourage you to do similar reassessments of his other data.

Finally, this is a very sensitive question -> What do you think of our mediator? While he appears to be a pretty nice guy, I am not exactly sure if he has the expertise to really fully appreciate the arguments, the data, and the (very basic) science that were presented by us. Just by looking at his profile, it appears he technically should have the relevant training in science and computation (being an expert Perl programmer and all). --Bobthefish2 (talk) 04:52, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

"I'm in the mood for dancing"

I was in the mood to confront those edit-warlords in the absence of the mediator, particularly when I saw John Smith's appearing on the scene! STSC (talk) 10:00, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Alrighty... Just make sure you don't cross the line! But I do understand the thrill of seeing our favourite reputable British editor. --Bobthefish2 (talk) 10:36, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

Guess what, I was in that mood again 'cos I was bored to dead by that guy! STSC (talk) 18:15, 6 June 2011 (UTC)

I have had enough fun, just can't be bothered with that! STSC (talk) 03:03, 7 June 2011 (UTC)

Let's get the mediation moving

Feezo is asking for an apology. Please Bob, there's no harm in doing it privately on his email or talk page. STSC (talk) 11:42, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

I felt my criticism of him, for the most part, to be well-justified. He is most certainly welcomed to tell me my critiques were undeserved because of . But instead, he threatened to forfeit his duties as a mediator to force a personal matter to settle in his favour. I believe this is a strong indication that we simply need a more professional mediator (this is Feezo's first time as a mediator) that:

1. Makes competent decisions and analyses
2. Doesn't start fights with other parties
3. Can take/debate criticisms without resorting to the aforementioned antics --Bobthefish2 (talk) 18:12, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Oh well, we're at the dead-end then. STSC (talk) 20:05, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Bob, so for I feel we three (you, STSC, and me) have worked there pretty good in a way more and more tacit understanding or agreement. We all may be quite happy there, at least so far. As for the conflict between you and mediator Feezo, I guess he may have an unhappy first-impression when you had some talk-exchanges with Tenmei, him, and AGT before I signed in "agree" and requested that template/tag. You deserve the AGF, and he deserves too. He may have misunderstood or has been misunderstanding you. When an audience has a misunderstanding in a AGF way, the speaker may have some responsibility too. No one can be perfect. May I still use that "penny, pound" or "芝麻，西瓜" stuff as an analogy. A sincere apology from you may be your real grievance in fact, but it may not hurt very much by thinking this is a gentleman's generous (大人大肚量). You have done very good job there and I have learned quite amount from you. If you don't agree the above (I have said too much), you can punch me. --Lvhis (talk) 21:43, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

The philosophy you and STSC expressed are understandable (i.e. 大局為重 and 得過且過), but I don't think it applies to this situation very well. It's possible that my perception of the mediator is very different to your perception of him, which may explain a difference in our perspective in this. My impression of him is that of a pressurized can situated in a heated room (i.e. 定時炸彈). Even if I were to appease him this time, I have a feeling that he's going to be ticked off by something else again very soon. --Bobthefish2 (talk) 22:09, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

That is certain expectation or an assumption yet. If that turns true, I believe STSC and I will work with you together. Now, compromising does not mean you are weaker, instead, may be even stronger. --Lvhis (talk) 22:27, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

No Lvhis, that's not compromising. It's capitulation on a matter where the fault lies largely on another party. Instead, I opt to wait and see what is going to happen next. At the moment, it appears our friend Tenmei has gone after a bunch of mediators. Be patient. --Bobthefish2 (talk) 22:41, 8 June 2011 (UTC)

Bob, if half of the exchanges you've had with Feezo had occurred anywhere else on Misplaced Pages, you'd likely have been hauled into WQA or worse. That can't happen here because discussions in mediation are essentially exempt from being used in disciplinary or other proceedings. Your most recent comment, accusing Feezo of trying to gain an advantage is both offensive and ridiculous: why would a mediator need an advantage? Are you implying he's not a neutral party in this discussion? If so, take it up with the committee. And all of the junk you talk about about "it's the other persons' fault for taking it that way, that's not what I meant" is disgusting. You can't excuse bad behavior by saying it's the listeners fault; that's just like people who make sexist or sexually harassing comments and then say "I was just joking!" Well, you know what? Civility isn't judged by intentions--it's just by behavior and effects. The effect of your attacking the mediator (not only you, to be fair, but in large part you) was to drive the mediator away and waste time that could have been spent on the actual problem. Is this helpful? Does this get us any closer to a solution to our problem? You've told me before that I'm too nice, that I'm too accepting of other people's bad behavior. So fine--your behavior thus far in mediation has been occasionally helpful (like in your analysis of the search results), but mostly it's been baiting, attacking, and, at times, downright offensive. Of course, the problem is that any comments I make like this are useless, because you're set in your ways, are incapable of looking at things from other people's perspective, and really, even if you could be blocked (say, if this went to ArbCom), you have nothing to lose, since you're not really interesting in actually editing Misplaced Pages, anyway. Qwyrxian (talk) 00:20, 9 June 2011 (UTC)

It's a shame, since I'd have expected a bit more from you. Here, let me quote some of the exchanges between Feezo and myself:

You know, for much of the time, it was our friendly mediator who decided to start disputes. First he accused me of insulting his sense of humour, then he accused me of using sarcasm, and then he accused me of threatening to call up the chair to oust him - all of which are pretty much false (you can try very hard to connect them with your sexual harassment analogies but I don't think they will work). Then of course, you somehow conveniently overlooked all those wonderful walls of text Tenmei and Phoenix wrote to condemn various aspects of Feezo's competence. You know... if you expect others to listen to your criticisms, you should really try to make sure those said criticisms are applied indiscriminately. But unfortunately, evidence has shown that you are unable to do so. In this case, I wonder who has his mind set in stone?

As for contributions, you are welcomed to downplay whatever I did really. Let's see... along with STSC, I was one of the very few that actually wrote a lot about what to scrutinize in these search results. Then along with you, I was one of the few who actually bothered to re-assess some seemingly impressive results. Then what other productive discussions do we have? There's certainly Lvhis' big section about NPOV and WP taking sides. And then aside from that, there's really nothing else that can be considered very productive unless you would like to include Tenmei's multiple threads about "bait and switch" and "conflation". So if you are to accuse me of contributing very little to the mediation, then I am not sure who in your mind has done a great deal for it then. Yourself?

--Bobthefish2 (talk) 02:00, 9 June 2011 (UTC)