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Thanks. — Headbomb {_{κοντριβς} – WP Physics} 09:34, 15 March, 2009 (UTC)

porn parodies

I have no idea if anyone is still active on this project, but I would like to inform you all of a discussion regarding inclusion of porn parodies in articles. it can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Biographies_of_living_persons/Noticeboard#Inclusion_of_porn_film_in_Sarah_Palin — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sephiroth storm (talk • contribs) 08:26, 26 December 2010

Help reviewing Draft:Cumonmy.com please

I have no idea how to advise the author of this draft on finding references. Please will members of this project pop over and offer help and advice? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Timtrent (talk • contribs) 13:48, 24 June 2014‎ (UTC)

FYI again

• This RfC is now closed, but there is still some apparent difficultly in implementing that close (if needed) in this discussion here. Commentary from members of this Project might be helpful at this time to define a best way forward. Guy1890 (talk) 20:05, 26 August 2014 (UTC)

Template gathering assistance requested

Hi Project members (and fans), it would seem that we have a variety of templates (article and Talk page) that are in use in our articles, but we do not have them in an easy to use location. I have added some to the project page, but I'd like to ask your help in finding more. Here is what I've found so far...

• Appearances
  • Penthouse Pets templates
• Awards
  • {{AVN Award - Female Performer of the Year}}
  • {{XRCO Award - Female Performer of the Year}}

Even if you just list the article that you found it in, I'm happy to compile the list and do the appropriate coding. Many thanks! --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 21:09, 28 August 2014 (UTC)

• The following templates used in porn related articles are the only ones I know of:

Template:Adult entertainment awards

Template:American pornographic film studios

Template:MindGeek

Template:Girlfriends Films

• I'll let you know if I find any others. The templates I've listed are used in articles on either award ceremonies or production companies. I don't know of any others, besides AVN/XRCO Female Performer of the Year or Penthouse Pets, which are used in performer biographies. Rebecca1990 (talk) 00:52, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Thanks Becs!! :) --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 03:24, 29 August 2014 (UTC)

Hey Scalhotrod, I found another template; Template:AVN Award - Transsexual Performer of the Year. Rebecca1990 (talk) 12:13, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Coolness, thank you! I need to get to work posting these in the Project page. Hey, what do you think of my expansion of the Structure section? --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 19:32, 9 September 2014 (UTC)

Proposal to broaden/rename HIV/AIDS in the pornographic film industry

There is a discussion, Talk:HIV/AIDS in the pornographic film industry#Propose broaden scope and rename that members of this project may be interested in. Lightbreather (talk) 20:53, 10 September 2014 (UTC)

Missing lists

Among the current "List" articles:

• List of African-American porn stars
• List of Asian pornographic actors
• List of Hispanic porn stars
• List of British pornographic actors
• List of female porn stars by decade

Missing, maybe?

• List of American porn stars
• List of Australian porn stars
• List of male porn stars (by decade?)

Just wonderin'. --Lightbreather (talk) 21:35, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

The articles List of Asian pornographic actors, List of gay pornography awards, List of British pornographic actors, List of male performers in gay porn films, List of pornographic actresses by decade, List of African-American pornographic actors, and List of pornographic sub-genres were all pretty much decimated by some anti-porn editors in recent months. Once those articles are restored, using inline citations for each name (ugh), then maybe we could consider adding more lists. IMHO, generating more list articles that are related to pornography is just going to cause more trouble than its worth at this late date. Guy1890 (talk) 23:32, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Frankly, I'd prefer fewer than more, but if there are going to be ethnic/nationality lists, and "female" lists... In other words, it's not a big deal to me. I'm new to the project, so I have questions, and maybe some insights, too. That's all. Lightbreather (talk) 23:43, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Though I guess that does bring up another question, why were they decimated? ... If you know. It seems like there are a heckuva lot of porn bios. Are all of these people really notable?

"why were they decimated?" Well, opinions certainly vary on that topic, but the story at the time was that listing mostly stage names of subjects that had Misplaced Pages articles (but no inline citation in the list article itself) written about them were "BLP violations" that needed to be removed immediately. There's some discussion about this topic in the archives of this talk page and here - with some references to other discussions that took place on other talk pages, AN/I, etc.. It was a huge & unnecessary clusterf**k IMO.

"Are all of these people really notable?" Again, that's a matter of opinion, but since PORNBIO was further tightened in recent years, there are likely a significant amount of pornography-related BLPs that don't technically meet PORNBIO and/or GNG in their current form. Guy1890 (talk) 00:04, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks for taking the time to explain. I have mixed feelings about the industry, but I certainly understand why there is a porn project. I wouldn't want to delete someone who is truly notable, but I also don't think anyone who's ever worked in porn needs a page. It seems to me that there are an awful lot here, but I doubt I'll have the energy to check many out. I'm mostly NOT here to work on bios, though I happen to be working on one now that I find interesting. Thanks again. Lightbreather (talk) 00:08, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Names and birth dates in BLPs

The section currently headed Real names of performers about halfway down the project page and, as the header suggests, addresses only the performers' real names (per WP:BLPNAME) - but not their birth dates. I would like to propose adding WP:DOB to the section, renaming the section, and moving it higher up on the project page. Maybe even before the "Structure" section. Frankly, I think DOB should be completely private, but if that's unaccepatble, perhaps instead of full birthdates, we could just put birth years. Lightbreather (talk) 22:14, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

From one of the links above: "Misplaced Pages includes full names and dates of birth that have been widely published by reliable sources, or by sources linked to the subject such that it may reasonably be inferred that the subject does not object." As long as birth names, DOBs, place of birth, etc. have reliable sources attached to them (in an infobox & in the article's text), I don't see what the problem is. If an adult performer or former adult performer wants to have their entire article or some portion of their article scrubbed of some information, there's a whole official process to go through in order to have that done. It's been rare (since I've been involved with this Project here) that I've seen that done successfully though. Guy1890 (talk) 23:38, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Then you get into the whole "reliable source" discussion, though. I seriously doubt that many young people in the industry think about the repercussions of that data being made public, and even if they did, I doubt that many of the sources that we list on the project page care about it being made public. For a BLP of a person in such an industry, discretion in name and birth date seems a good idea. Just my two cents. Lightbreather (talk) 00:22, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

I don't think that you're going to find many people that routinely edit pages that are under this Project's "jurisdiction" that handle the real names of adult industry performers irresponsibly. I know that I've personally removed (with little fanfare) a lot of that kind of info (that had no reliable source associated with it) from public view in more than a few pornography-related BLPs in the past. What I've actually noticed over the years is that many well-written pornography-related BLPs have much more sourcing for routine biographical info than many of our regular, run-of-the-mill BLPs on Misplaced Pages. Is it difficult to find truly reliable sources for at least some of this kind of info? Sure, but it's not impossible, and many of these adult performers are better known under their stage names anyways. It's not really our job to "think" for the subjects of the articles on Misplaced Pages...it's our job to make sure that truly contentious or controversial material on Misplaced Pages has a reliable source attached to it. Guy1890 (talk) 00:59, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Guy1890, this must have been weighing on my mind last night, because I woke up thinking about it. Considering that WP:BLP says, "Be very firm about the use of high-quality sources," and considering what WP:DOB says about identity theft and erring on the side of caution - and then only if "dates of birth ... have been widely published by reliable sources, or by sources linked to the subject such that it may reasonably be inferred that the subject does not object" - it seems it would be good editorial policy here to simply list birth years only for these people. I mean, our own project page doesn't heartily endorse any of the given sources as reliable sources (maybe for awards and filmography), and certainly not as high-quality, reliable sources.

Maybe a 3O is a good idea? Or an RfC? Thanks. Lightbreather (talk) 22:25, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

Look, I recognize that you are new to the Project (and have questions that are mostly due to that newness) and that you personally believe that this is an issue, but it really isn't. Again, if you simply browse across Misplaced Pages, there are thousands of BLPs that don't have explicit, inline sourcing for much (if any) biographical data (like places of birth, DOBs, etc.) that's contained in infoboxes, while many well-written pornography-related BLPs do have such sourcing. There's also nothing that I've ever seen wrong with using one of the adult industry standards for this type of data (IAFD) if that source actually states that data, which it doesn't always since they are pretty strict (from what I understand) on checking their sources before publishing such data. Are there even better sources for this kind of basic information? Sure, the adult performer's own website (if one is available), other industry publications, etc.. This really is a non-issue...you really can sleep easy about it. Guy1890 (talk) 02:43, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

I'd like to bring up as a side note the issue of safety and personal privacy. There are more than a few performers who DO NOT want their real names used or released. Do they get found out, yes, and if there's ever a strictest application of BLP Policy with regard to WP:RS for birth names, its in THIS particular instance that I wholeheartedly believe in it. I have spoken (or corresponded) with more than a few performers who have told me that even in retirement they fear for their safety because of "crazy fans". Of course this doesn't stop a friend from their high school "recognizing" them and then blogging, Tweeting, or what-have-you about it so that it gets out and becomes seemingly "common knowledge". But we should not be touting birth names unless we have confirmation that a performer knows AND is OK with it.--Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 21:23, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Porn film awards

I would like to propose moving Pornographic film awards (which is at the very bottom on the project page) up into the Other sources section. And refer to it/give a link to it in the Structures section, to help editors decide if a person is notable. And, on that note, WP:PORNBIO says:

"Has won a well-known and significant industry award. Awards in scene-related and ensemble categories are excluded from consideration."

Are all the awards listed under "Pornographic film awards" (User:Epbr123/Adult award winners and nominees) significant industry awards? --Lightbreather (talk) 23:26, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

"Are all the awards listed under 'Pornographic film awards'...significant industry awards?" No, but that listing is a halfway decent place to start when trying to figure out if an adult performer might meet the PORNBIO standard. The problem with that listing is that User:Epbr123 basically doesn't edit Misplaced Pages anymore and that award listing hasn't been properly updated in a long while at this point. That listing also lists scene awards (which haven't counted towards PORNBIO in a long while) and award nominations (which used to count towards PORNBIO up until more recently). A lot of the listed Urban X/Urban Spice Awards haven't been successfully used to satisfy PORNBIO in more recent AfDs. I'm not sure what the listed "Score" award stuff is in reference to either.

During the last debate over updating PORNBIO, I came up with a preliminary listing of awards that I personally thought met the "well-known and significant industry award" standard, but that current listing doesn't have policy-level support for it at all. Guy1890 (talk) 23:56, 11 September 2014 (UTC)

Awards section necessary for porn bio

This edit on the Sharon Mitchell article caught my eye. I have read WP:PORNBIO several times now. Are awards NECESSARY for a porn bio? It seems to me like it is one or more of the three qualifiers:

1. Has won a well-known and significant industry award. Awards in scene-related and ensemble categories are excluded from consideration.
2. Has made unique contributions to a specific pornographic genre, such as beginning a trend in pornography; starred in an iconic, groundbreaking or blockbuster feature; or is a member of an industry Hall of Fame such as the AVN Hall of Fame, XRCO Hall of Fame or equivalent.
3. Has been featured multiple times in notable mainstream media.

The beginning of that guideline is a little clumsy, I think. It reads:

The following criteria should be brought up in a Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion discussion only in relation to subjects who are or have been involved in the pornography industry.

But I'm not sure how to re-word it. --Lightbreather (talk) 22:01, 12 September 2014 (UTC)

• Under PORNBIO, there are several ways to qualify for an article and earning certain types of awards (including being in a Hall of Fame) are one of the "easier" ways to qualify. Making "unique contributions to a specific pornographic genre, such as beginning a trend in pornography, starring in an iconic, groundbreaking or blockbuster feature", or being "featured multiple times in notable mainstream media" are generally more difficult standards to attain. It's sometimes common to find pornographic-related articles that qualify for inclusion on Misplaced Pages under other standards (like GNG, etc.) in addition to qualifying under some portion of PORNBIO. There really isn't any point in deleting true, well-referenced info (like award and/or nomination info) from an article. There are more than a few deletionists out there that plague this Project that would love to be able to delete more articles based on edits like the one that you've highlighted above.

Also, you're really not going to be able to "re-word" just about any text from our notability guidelines without first discussing it in a notability forum. I see no reason to inadvertently re-open PORNBIO for discussion at this time.

As an aside, I understand that both you & Scalhotrod have some type of past "history" here on Misplaced Pages that I'm not familiar with at all. Please don't take whatever disputes that you may have had in the past into this Project...we don't need them here. Guy1890 (talk) 03:02, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Guy1890 From what I've seen so far, LB is making an earnest effort to edit porn articles in productive manner. As you've pointed out, LB doesn't understand some of the intricacies of PORNBIO articles, but she gets up to speed very quickly. Lets assume good faith for the time being and also do our best to educate as well. --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 16:33, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Adult Film Database site security

When you go to the Adult Film Database site using McAfee SiteAdvisor, you get the message:

Whoa!

Are you sure you want to go there?

http://www.adultfilmdatabase.com/ may be risky to visit.

Why were you redirected to this page?

When we visited this site, we found it exhibited one or more risky behaviors.

Since we say on the project page that the Internet Adult Film Database (IAFD) has more info (well, actually we say that the Adult Film Database has less info), I don't think we should be using Adult Film Database as a source and senders Misplaced Pages readers to a possibly harmful site.

--Lightbreather (talk) 18:01, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

• There's nothing wrong with going to the AFDB site. Is it the very best of sources to use in a Misplaced Pages article? No, but I've seen a few rare occasions when it contains some valid information that can usually be confirmed by other sources. It's been a useful & standard External Link widely used by this Project here for many, many years now. Guy1890 (talk) 19:32, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Thanks. I'm not disputing that there might be some useful information there. My question is about its limited usefulness as a source compared to its security risk for readers. Lightbreather (talk) 19:39, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

There really is no "security risk for readers". I'm sorry, but McAfee software is really kind of a joke at this late date. Guy1890 (talk) 20:11, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

lukeisback and sexherald dot com

I started a discussion at WP:RSN about the "lukeisback" and "sexherald" websites.

--Lightbreather (talk) 18:04, 15 September 2014 (UTC)

Belle Knox, revisited

I just ran across this... http://business.avn.com/articles/technology/Belle-Knox-Mini-Series-to-Debut-Tuesday-on-Conde-Nast-Entertainment-572998.html

Conde Nast Entertainment is airing a mini-series about Knox and it makes me wonder if this person is now notable enough to resurrect her article? She's not the first person to do porn to pay for school, I've run across others recently, but she certainly seems to be the most famous and/or controversial.

For recap sake, the deletion discuss is here and the deletion review is here. I'm pinging a few people from the original discussion for comment............ --Scalhotrod - Just your average banjo playing, drag racing, cowboy... (Talk) ☮ღ☺ 18:14, 16 September 2014 (UTC)

• I haven't been pinged although I voted in the DRV and have a well known interest in the BLP aspect of porn articles. In fact, all of the users you pinged voted to keep in the AFD which is clearly canvassing and completely invalidates any consensus arising from a discussion tainted by such tactics. Honestly, Scalhotrod, I'm just shaking my head at your behavior right now. FWIW I suggest you wait until you have a mainstream source and the series has aired and see what coverage you get from that. If there is enduring evidence of purient public interest then its worth looking to bring a draft to DRV that tries to take the BLP concerns into account. Maybe the outing article or something in sexual politics. Spartaz 18:34, 16 September 2014 (UTC)