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Against Northern Ireland

Mabuska, your wording is unclear. You might as well say that the French Resistance launched attacks "against France". My wording is clearer. Gob Lofa (talk) 22:46, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Recent edits

There is a contradiction between this edit summary and this one. Both the Red Hand Commando and the Official IRA were deadly, and both played a relatively small part over the thirty years of the Troubles. If the article is going to list only the main two loyalist groups, it should do the same for republican groups. Also, there is no point in removing "such as", only to later add in "the most predominant of which were". The second edit also says that the Official IRA was "supplanted" by the Provisionals. This is inaccurate. Two IRAs were formed in the 1970 split. One, which called itself the "Official" IRA – there was nothing official about it – ceased military activity in 1972, and the other did not. I am reverting to something like the status quo ante. Scolaire (talk) 12:20, 5 December 2015 (UTC)

Related AFD (2nd nomination) pending

Hard to believe only two editors (including nominator) had anything to say, during 1st nomination, which resulted in non admin closure due to lack of consensus, which is an intolerable and inexplicable outcome. See here. Quis separabit? 15:25, 7 December 2015 (UTC)

Questions about recent edits

1. Did nationalists argue that the state was neither legitimate nor democratic, or that partition was neither legitimate nor democratic? They're not the same thing. One was changed to the other here but the citation was not changed. Which did Peter Taylor say? I'm inclined to think it was the former.
2. Did civil rights campaigners call for reform of the Ulster Special Constabulary (B-Specials)? It says so here, but I'm pretty sure they called for it's disbandment, considering it incapable of reform. Again, a good citation would be useful.

Scolaire (talk) 15:00, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

Also, re this edit/edit summary: home rule meant an Irish parliament subordinate to Wesminster; repeal of the union meant an Irish parliament independent of Westminster answering only to the king/queen. It's nonsense to say that the larger measure of repeal would have led to the smaller measure of home rule. I will not revert because there have been a lot of threats bandied about over 1RR lately, but I believe it should be changed. Scolaire (talk) 15:06, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

None of these questions has been answered. Instead there has been more "rewording etc." which change the meaning of sentences while purporting to cite the same source. So, "alienated and radicalised" is not the same thing as " upsurge in violence". The CAIN source for internment figures uses "Catholic / Republican", not "nationalist". And I see no reason not to mention that the Provos arose from the IRA split. There is also this edit suggesting that Protestants did not see the higher birth rate among Catholics as a threat because they knew that it was balanced by a higher emigration rate. I am reverting all recent edits until the editors engage. Scolaire (talk) 13:38, 13 January 2016 (UTC)

You're right, '"alienated and radicalised" is not the same thing as " upsurge in violence".' - the upsurge in violence was not just from nationalists, as your edit implies. Why have you deleted the explanation for the Catholic proportion of the population remaining stagnant, and why do you imply in your comment above that Protestants knew about it and that it relaxed their fears? Why do you interpret a statement that the USC were part of the police as some demand of NICRA? Why do you ignore the Protestantism of some of the original internees? Why do you weasel about "allegations" of torture? Why do you repeat the derivation of both IRA wings? Why do you include Bloody Friday in a paragraph about the Officials, and break the chronology? Gob Lofa (talk) 22:56, 23 January 2016 (UTC)

First of all, it is nonsense to use phrases such as "as your edit implies" and "why do you ignore/weasel/repeat?". None of my edits added new content: they were all reverts. Secondly, it is not for the person reverting a controversial edit to justify their revert; it is for the person adding controversial content to justify the addition. And that necessarily includes citing reliable sources. It is not acceptable to alter a sentence to give a different point of view, and pretend that it is backed up by the reference that was already at the end of that sentence. I gave you an opportunity to justify your edits before I reverted and you declined to do so, making further questionable edits instead. Thirdly, the reasons for all my reverts were clearly spelled out in my edit summaries, which referred where appropriate to the discussion here.

Now, as regards the growth or non-growth of the Catholic population, I did not imply in my comment that Protestants knew about it and that it relaxed their fears, rather I complained that your edit implied it, when it said, "The prevalence of large families and a more rapid population growth among Catholics were seen as threats, even though this was offset by a higher emigration rate for Catholics until the 1950s." And where do you get your assertion that the Catholic proportion of the population remained stagnant? It was always my understanding that the Catholic population grew faster than the Protestant population during the entire period. Jonathan Tonge tells us that it rose from 35% in the 1960s to 45% in 2011. See, this is why I ask for reliable sources to back up any added content.

As regards the USC, again I did not "interpret a statement that the USC were part of the police as some demand of NICRA". The bulleted list gives the goals of NICRA and other organisations, and you edited it to say "reform of the police force (Royal Ulster Constabulary and Ulster Special Constabulary)". I disputed the contention that their goals specifically included reform of the B-Specials rather than their disbandment. Again, you have the option of providing a reliable source – if such a source exists, which I doubt.

Finally, please do not make edits such as this, where a convenient line break hides the other edits you made to the paragraphs. Or if you do, don't complain when somebody does a blanket revert rather than try to sift out the good edits from the bad. Scolaire (talk) 11:40, 24 January 2016 (UTC)

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