Talk:Hamas: Difference between revisions

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	What you removed was a clause qualifying the statement about Hamas suicide bombings. Your edit summary referred to an exchange between you and ] in which you cited some stuff saying Hamas still practices it, linking to a Yahoo article in which it is reported that a Hamas soldier blew himself up with a bomb, killing Israeli soldiers.		What you removed was a clause qualifying the statement about Hamas suicide bombings. Your edit summary referred to an exchange between you and ] in which you cited some stuff saying Hamas still practices it, linking to a Yahoo article in which it is reported that a Hamas soldier blew himself up with a bomb, killing Israeli soldiers.

			{{cot\|irrelevant to improving this article. ] (]) 23:05, 22 September 2016 (UTC)}}
	That made no impression on me for obvious reasons. It is a rare but much praised practice in wartime. If you read Yitzhak Arad, Gefen Publishing House 2010 pp.48-49 you will see that the book, rightly in my view, describes in detail the death of Eliezer Papernik (Lazar Haimoovich Papernik) on 22 January 1942. The last man standing in a raid on Nazi lines, this Jewish soldier waited for the Germans to close in, and then took some of them out while blowing himself up with his last hand grenade. We read that with deep commotion. We are supposed to feel absolute horror in reading the IDF report that a Hamas soldier, defending his homeland against an invader, blew himself up when close to Israeli soldiers. 'We'. Well, I don't think that the same tactic is valorous or an atrocity depending on the ethnic typecasting of the soldiers killed.		That made no impression on me for obvious reasons. It is a rare but much praised practice in wartime. If you read Yitzhak Arad, Gefen Publishing House 2010 pp.48-49 you will see that the book, rightly in my view, describes in detail the death of Eliezer Papernik (Lazar Haimoovich Papernik) on 22 January 1942. The last man standing in a raid on Nazi lines, this Jewish soldier waited for the Germans to close in, and then took some of them out while blowing himself up with his last hand grenade. We read that with deep commotion. We are supposed to feel absolute horror in reading the IDF report that a Hamas soldier, defending his homeland against an invader, blew himself up when close to Israeli soldiers. 'We'. Well, I don't think that the same tactic is valorous or an atrocity depending on the ethnic typecasting of the soldiers killed.
			{{cob}}

	In any case what you removed was not something Nishidani, putatively playing a Leninist 'useful idiot' for Hamas, put over as a fact. I wrote:'- a strategy it stated it had abandoned in 2006-' . It is a fact that Hamas went public saying it would no longer use that tactic against civilians, and as Kingsindian told you at the time:'As to your other points, one can perhaps rewrite the sentence to say that "Hamas largely gave up suicide bombings on Israeli civilians", which is true enough, since the suicide bombing has all but disappeared compared to earlier times.'		In any case what you removed was not something Nishidani, putatively playing a Leninist 'useful idiot' for Hamas, put over as a fact. I wrote:'- a strategy it stated it had abandoned in 2006-' . It is a fact that Hamas went public saying it would no longer use that tactic against civilians, and as Kingsindian told you at the time:'As to your other points, one can perhaps rewrite the sentence to say that "Hamas largely gave up suicide bombings on Israeli civilians", which is true enough, since the suicide bombing has all but disappeared compared to earlier times.'

	According to the documentation at ] Hamas claimed responsibility for 2 such acts between 2006 and 2016. One on April 19, 2008 and the other, the ] in January this year. On examining the evidence given, the later was carried out by an acknowledged Hamas member, of the West Bank. The Gaza branch praised it, but stopped short of saying it was responsible, which it has had no problem in stating in the past. That means Hamas conducted one certified suicide attack in ten years, against a military post on the Gaza border, in 2008. The Yahoo example occurred in wartime combat, and does not fit in. ] (]) 22:16, 22 September 2016 (UTC)		According to the documentation at ] Hamas claimed responsibility for 2 such acts between 2006 and 2016. One on April 19, 2008 and the other, the ] in January this year. On examining the evidence given, the later was carried out by an acknowledged Hamas member, of the West Bank. The Gaza branch praised it, but stopped short of saying it was responsible, which it has had no problem in stating in the past. That means Hamas conducted one certified suicide attack in ten years, against a military post on the Gaza border, in 2008. The Yahoo example occurred in wartime combat, and does not fit in. ] (]) 22:16, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
			:Could you kindly cut out the SOAP? It's getting real old. I collapsed an irrelevant paragraph, per TPO.

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Antisemitism in their ideology? They are clearly stating annihalation of Jews in their charter. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Bellezzasolo (talk • contribs) 22:02, 6 October 2014 (UTC)

Quotes in citations

As per the discussion on Misplaced Pages talk:Citing sources/Archive 19#Quotes in references and per WP:COPYVIO I will remove the quotes within the citations. This will also make the article a bit shorter (especially the references section) and easier to edit.

Cheers, pedrito - talk - 04.07.2008 06:18

However, its founding charter, writings, and many of its public statements reflect an incontrovertible evidence of Anti-zionism. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Alhizabr (talk • contribs) 20:32, 2 January 2009

Was Hamas created in 1976, 1986, 1987, 1988?

1976

The Oxford World Encyclopedia: "Hamas¶ The Islamic Resistance Movement founded in 1976 by Sheikh Yassin Ahmed, with the aim of creating an Islamic state in the former Palestine. "

1986:

"Son of Hamas": http://books.google.com/books?id=QFYw0R8S-KMC&lpg=PT282&pg=PT33

1987:

Misplaced Pages: "Hamas was created in 1987 by Sheikh Ahmed Yassin, Abdel Aziz al-Rantissi and Mohammad Taha of the Palestinian wing of the Muslim Brotherhood at the beginning of the First Intifada."

The Corporate Security Professional's Handbook on Terrorism: "Hamas was a splinter group of the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood and was created as a separate organization in 1987."

1988

http://www.ajc.org/atf/cf/%7B42D75369-D582-4380-8395-D25925B85EAF%7D/HAMAS2006.PDF: Hamas is a creation of the Palestinian branch of the extremist Muslim Brotherhood movement. The organization was created in 1988 by the late Sheikh 11 Ahmad Yassin, the Hamas ideologue and founder who was then a preacher of the Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood movement in Gaza. In concurrence with his teachings, Yassin and his followers formed Hamas as the “military wing” of the Palestinian Muslim Brotherhood. 86.68.157.246 (talk) {BG}; edited: 86.68.157.246 (talk) {BG}

—Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.68.157.246 (talk • contribs) 14:55, 4 January 2009

For 1987 I can add that it is mentioned that: 'Hamas was founded in 1987 (during the First Intifada)'. The first intifada started at December 1987 in that case Hamas was established on December 1987, When exactly? Maybe with the first manifest?

Both Filiue and Tamimi give December 14, 1987 as the date for the formal establishment of Hamas. Tamimi claims this was the date for the first communique signed Hamas, although according to Filiue, Hamas was not recognized as the official name for the Islamic resistance movement until February 1988.

"The Origins of Hamas: Militant Legacy or Israeli Tool?". Journal of Palestine Studies. 41 (3): 54–70. 2012. doi:10.1525/jps.2012.XLI.3.54. {{cite journal}}: Unknown parameter |month= ignored (help)
Tamimi, Azzam (2007). Hamas: a history from within ( ed.). Northampton, Mass.: Olive Branch. ISBN 978-1566568241.

Gaza Finance section

This at most needs to be boiled down to a few lines. It is scattered tidbits patched together with no synthetic thematic approach.

Gaza domestic funding

Hamas approved a 540-million-dollar government budget for 2010 with up to 90% coming from "undisclosed" foreign aid, which includes funding from Iran and Egypt's Muslim Brotherhood according to western intelligence agencies. Due to the Gaza blockade, Hamas still faces a financial crisis. With a bureaucracy of around 30,000 staff, the organisation is growing faster than can be handled, with salaries being delayed or prioritised for the lowest paid. To fund its budget, Hamas has raised new taxes on businesses and imposed a 14.5% tax on luxury goods smuggled through the tunnels. Gaza businessmen have accused Hamas of profiting from the blockade and using these taxes to buy large tracts of land and private buildings for public facilities in competition to established businesses.

In August 2011, the U.S State Department threatened to cut 100 million dollars in aid it sends to the Gaza Strip if Hamas continues to insist upon auditing American foreign aid organizations after Hamas suspended operations of the International Medical Corps following the group's refusal to submit to an on-site audit. Most foreign charities submit their own audits to the Interior Ministry in Ramallah. Charities must be audited by law, possibly to ensure money is not diverted for political or intelligence-gathering purposes but as the U.S. government forbids direct contact with Hamas, the action prompted Washington to issue the threat via a third party. Aid provided by American and other foreign groups goes to hundreds of thousands of Palestinians in Gaza, where most of the 1.6 million residents are refugees.

A U.S. official based in the region said "USAID-funded partner organizations operating in Gaza are forced by Hamas's actions to suspend their assistance work. (They) were put on hold effective August 12." According to the official, Hamas demanded access to files and records of NGOs, which would reveal financial and administrative information, details of staff members and information on beneficiaries. He said Hamas shut down IMC and USAID after the U.S. objected to "unwarranted audits". Hamas administration official Taher al-Nono said Hamas had a right to monitor their work in the territory but an understanding had been reached that would allow independent auditing teams to inspect the files of NGOs.

A day after the U.S. announced it was suspending financial aid to Gaza, Hamas officials said they had reached an agreement with the United States that would allow USAID to continue operations.

In August 2011, the Hamas government in the Gaza Strip imposed new travel restrictions on Palestinians active in non-governmental organizations by requiring them to provide details of the trip to the ministry in what the Palestinian NGO Network regards as another Hamas attempt to control and hamper them. The Palestinian Center for Human Rights condemned the new laws. Tharut al Bic, head of the interior ministry's NGO department, stated, "the new instructions are intended to make it easier for travellers to better organize their trip and to preserve order." Hamas requires sick people wishing to leave the Gaza Strip to submit applications and meet various conditions, in addition to restrictions Israel imposes on Palestinians leaving Gaza.

In 2014 Fatah accused Hamas of stealing a total of $700 million from aid directed at Gaza Strip reconstruction and civilian casualties of the conflict. In the beginning of October Hamas soldiers raided one of the branches of Bank of Palestine and seized $750'000 in cash. A number of Fatah activists also accused Fatah leadership of organized theft of aid resources.

References

^ Iran punishes Hamas for not backing Assad| August 23, 2011
Hamas imposes new Gaza taxes to pay for burgeoning bureaucracy, The Guardian, by Rory McCarthy.
Eric Cunningham (August 17, 2009). "Hamas profits from Israel's Gaza blockade". Christian Science Monitor. Retrieved August 24, 2010.
Bronner, Ethan (August 11, 2011). "U.S. Threatens to Halt Gaza Aid Over Hamas Audits". The New York Times. Retrieved August 12, 2011.
Miller, David E. (August 11, 2011). "US may cut Gaza aid over Hamas probes". The Jerusalem Post. Retrieved January 6, 2013.
"US suspends work of aid groups in Gaza Strip". Ynetnews.com. 1995-06-20. Retrieved 2014-08-02.
Nidal al-Mughrabi (August 13, 2011). "U.S. suspends work of aid groups in Gaza Strip". Reuters. Retrieved January 6, 2013.
"'Hamas, US reach compromise on Gaza aid'". The Jerusalem Post. August 13, 2011. Retrieved January 6, 2013.
Hass, Amira (August 30, 2011). "Gaza NGOs express 'horror' at new Hamas travel restrictions on Palestinians". Haaretz. Retrieved January 6, 2013.
"Hamas and Fatah Already Fighting Over Gaza Funds". Gatestone Institute. 2014-09-20. Retrieved 2014-10-12.

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Needs clarification

The last line of the lead:

It is not regarded as a terrorist organization by Iran, Russia, Norway, Switzerland, Turkey, China, and Brazil.

Does that mean that those countries specifically regard it as not a terrorist organisation or simply that those countries could have, but didn't, designate it as such? It should be explained why precisely these countries are mentioned. Bataaf van Oranje (Prinsgezinde) (talk) 12:47, 12 June 2016 (UTC)

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Nishidani the useful idiot

User:TheTimesAreAChanging, Nishidani being a useful idiot again. Hamas only disavowed suicide bombings for TWO MONTHS, from April to June 2006, before resuming them:

What you removed was a clause qualifying the statement about Hamas suicide bombings. Your edit summary referred to an exchange between you and User:KingsIndian in which you cited some stuff saying Hamas still practices it, linking to a Yahoo article in which it is reported that a Hamas soldier blew himself up with a bomb, killing Israeli soldiers.

irrelevant to improving this article. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 23:05, 22 September 2016 (UTC)
That made no impression on me for obvious reasons. It is a rare but much praised practice in wartime. If you read Yitzhak Arad, In the Shadow of the Red Banner: Soviet Jews in the War Against Nazi Germany, Gefen Publishing House 2010 pp.48-49 you will see that the book, rightly in my view, describes in detail the death of Eliezer Papernik (Lazar Haimoovich Papernik) on 22 January 1942. The last man standing in a raid on Nazi lines, this Jewish soldier waited for the Germans to close in, and then took some of them out while blowing himself up with his last hand grenade. We read that with deep commotion. We are supposed to feel absolute horror in reading the IDF report that a Hamas soldier, defending his homeland against an invader, blew himself up when close to Israeli soldiers. 'We'. Well, I don't think that the same tactic is valorous or an atrocity depending on the ethnic typecasting of the soldiers killed.

irrelevant to improving this article. No More Mr Nice Guy (talk) 23:05, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

That made no impression on me for obvious reasons. It is a rare but much praised practice in wartime. If you read Yitzhak Arad, In the Shadow of the Red Banner: Soviet Jews in the War Against Nazi Germany, Gefen Publishing House 2010 pp.48-49 you will see that the book, rightly in my view, describes in detail the death of Eliezer Papernik (Lazar Haimoovich Papernik) on 22 January 1942. The last man standing in a raid on Nazi lines, this Jewish soldier waited for the Germans to close in, and then took some of them out while blowing himself up with his last hand grenade. We read that with deep commotion. We are supposed to feel absolute horror in reading the IDF report that a Hamas soldier, defending his homeland against an invader, blew himself up when close to Israeli soldiers. 'We'. Well, I don't think that the same tactic is valorous or an atrocity depending on the ethnic typecasting of the soldiers killed.

In any case what you removed was not something Nishidani, putatively playing a Leninist 'useful idiot' for Hamas, put over as a fact. I wrote:'- a strategy it stated it had abandoned in 2006-' . It is a fact that Hamas went public saying it would no longer use that tactic against civilians, and as Kingsindian told you at the time:'As to your other points, one can perhaps rewrite the sentence to say that "Hamas largely gave up suicide bombings on Israeli civilians", which is true enough, since the suicide bombing has all but disappeared compared to earlier times.'

According to the documentation at List of Palestinian suicide attacks Hamas claimed responsibility for 2 such acts between 2006 and 2016. One on April 19, 2008 and the other, the 2016 Jerusalem bus bombing in January this year. On examining the evidence given, the later was carried out by an acknowledged Hamas member, of the West Bank. The Gaza branch praised it, but stopped short of saying it was responsible, which it has had no problem in stating in the past. That means Hamas conducted one certified suicide attack in ten years, against a military post on the Gaza border, in 2008. The Yahoo example occurred in wartime combat, and does not fit in. Nishidani (talk) 22:16, 22 September 2016 (UTC)

Could you kindly cut out the SOAP? It's getting real old. I collapsed an irrelevant paragraph, per TPO.

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