Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 02:00, 12 January 2007

Military history: Asian / Japanese / World War II Start‑class

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Some even say that the gold doesn't exist. What do you think? It's obvious that gold was taken from Asian nations, in fact, more was taken from South East Asia then was stolen from the Jews by the Nazis.

Answer: Since the article offers legally binding proof of the existence of Yamashita's stolen gold, it cannot be denied that it did exist. However, it is NOT obvious that more gold was taken from South East Asia than stolen from the Jews by the Nazis. That is at best, speculation.

Did anyone notice this article is biased?

Answer: The article is not biased because it's sources are quoted together with references, offering verifiable proof by an indisputable authority.

The major rewrite

This is a very great improvement, Grant65. Well done. I have a few suggestions to maybe make it even better. As a reader, I think it's maybe too fuzzy about the seemingly contradictory conclusions. Did Marcos steal it from the hidden treasures recovered, Roxas? Or did Truman, Hirohito and the CIA use it to fund covert espionage? Also maybe it should be made clearer at the top of the article that there is as much legend as there are known facts surrounding the 60 year old story of Yamashita's gold. (This would help readers understand from the top why there are two different accounts later in the article telling about what happened to it.) And I think it would be good to restore some of the sections of older versions which tell about the hunger and adventures of so many 'gold hunter' treasure seekers over the years, trying to put their hands on the hidden gold.Professor marginalia 15:56, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your support and comments. I agree that the article can still be vastly improved. The stuff about concealment methods, treasure hunters, etc seemed too POV/unverifiable and/or too general, being about treasure hunting in the Philippines in general, rather than the loot actually concealed by the Japanese in 42-45

As for the "fuzziness", i.e. the Roxas/Marcos and CIA theories, well both could be true. There is nothing to say that the CIA found all of the loot after all. Grant65 | Talk 16:35, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. The treasure hunting discussion wasn't worth saving in that form. If that issue is as noteworthy as the earlier text suggested, suitable references could probably be found. I'll see what I can do with it. But again, kudos. It's in very good shape, quite a change from the shape I found it yesterday. Professor marginalia 01:13, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Update-judging alone by the number of companies selling How-to books and consultant services available on the internet who are selling to the Philippine treasure seekers, it is noteworthy. Unfortunately all the references I find seem to be commercial, or at the very least the huge number of them are making it very hard to hunt through any other references that might be out there. Professor marginalia 02:16, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

Reply from Szatmary

Firstly, I publicly appologise for offending treausure hunters and landowners in the Philippines. I will from now on offer only verifiable proof, and also describe the reasons why I have embarked on this mission, which is destined to bring benefits to all treasure hunters and landowners. Sometimes, to make way for the new the old must be demolished. I have used the wrong approach to achieve this objective and I know that I must do things to correct my mistakes in judgement. Wikipeaedia is an important element for my plans. Please read my other comments below:

There are NUMEROUS references, reports and legal decisions in Supreme and High Courts worldwide that prove the Yamashita Gold existed. The only question to ask is "Does it still exists and what can be done using the Yamashita Gold Treasure story, to advance the Philippines and raise the integrity of their citizens on the world platform?"

I note that the Professor relies on newspaper articles, media stories and unverified claims to imply his story is credible, when in fact, it is a mere story. The professor does not quote one reliable or proven source and in fact, distanced his story and claims from the two verifiable sources that I inserted into this article, some days ago. The professor removed them and replaced them with wording that would incite one to place reliance on the Seagraves’s book Wikipaedia is not a commercial forum nor is it designed to promote commercial enterprises or works of literature. For the Professor to claim that it is hard to hunt through references, is wrong because there are numerous references that may be relied upon and access is readily available to these works of authority by academics and research fellows. Clearly, the professor is not in this league and is only able to rely on newspapers for his information and the Seagraves’s book, which was written by a journalist.

The current article by "Professor" marginalia is completely biased in that it appears to be a commercial promotion of Seagraves Book, representing it as an authoritative work, when in fact is it on the main speculative and supported by little fact. The "expert references" at the bottom direct the reader to newspaper articles and media sources, including the Seagraves’s Book which is for sale. The references cited are not academically authoritative and reliance by potential Treasure Hunting Investors on the article by Professor marginalia should be treated with extreme caution. The billions have already been recovered a long time ago and proof will come soon.User: Szatmary 01:22, 12 January 2007 (USQ).

The recent major rewrites have been done by me, not Professor marginalia. Your attacks on the sources are a little hard to understand. A large proportion of the references used in Misplaced Pages are "for sale"(!), or they are online magazines/newspapers, or even both. The quotes/references from/to the Seagraves and other historians are an accurate reflection of what they say in well-referenced and academic books. The London Review of Books does not expend >10,000 words on a glowing review of mere "speculation". I agree that it is likely "the billions have already been recovered a long time ago"; the article doesn't say otherwise. Grant65 | Talk 16:31, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

And there I was just beginning to shake off my bad mood from my last wiki frame-up. I'm surprised the subject of this article is controversial. Iron-clad, diff verifiable, vindication doesn't buy one fair and honest judgement if one is caught on the battlefield of a controversial article, as I'm finding out. But I'll give it a try here, once, as an experiment.

Szatmary replies

The works are written by the professor and his name is used. Therefore, for you make a claim you must put your identification to it and not his. However, his password was used to access the discussion page, and no other.

A reference is a work of authority that may be used to support an argument. Newspapers articles are unacceptable as references, although they may be used to site the journalists opinion only. The fact that the newspaper articles and books are for sale does not add weight to the professors story, which on the major part is false and cannot be verified by any authority, university, research institute or the like.

I am not going to change the Yamashita story at this time, but I will make the proper representation to the administration of Wikipeadia so that the professor and Gary are blocked from altering my work, which is of the highest authority and verifiable by all leading research academies and programs.

1. 1. I haven't written a single word of the article.
      1. Professor maganalia’s name appears on them and log in shows they are authored by him

1. 1. I haven't read any of Seagraves books. I don't have any relationship to them. I don't sell them. All I know about them is what I goggled in order to fix titles in another article wikilinked from this one
      1. The they are not permitted to be referenced because they, and now you on your own admission, do not know the contents nor can you rely on them. But you do word the article so as to add credibility to an otherwise, completely misrepresented article which on the main, reflects fantasy and sells books written by the Seagraves.

1. 1. Books similar to those Seagraves has published are used as sources throughout wikipedia, even though their authors are paid when people buy them. The fact that they're for sale in bookstores doesn't mean they're unreliable sources. But if they are unreliable or badly researched that could disqualify them, but it takes more than personal accusations from individual editors. Your accusations against me were completely unjustified, completely baseless. Your accusations against Seagraves's books may be just the same.
      1. There are numerous books published, in the same vain as the Seagraves’s book and they are fiction. The fact that they are for sale proves my claim that the professor’s story is designed to sell books.

I'm thinking about changing my name to "Professor Mistaken Identity". It fits my job description. Professor marginalia 16:56, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Take note that I am offended that you should take it upon yourself to remove references of the highest order as would be the academic community worldwide. For these reasons, you will do a great service to the Philippines and their citizens to allow and not interfere with the progression of my line of writing which is supported by almost every research program and academic worldwide. The reason is that we are going to present absolute proof which will lead to the development and advancement of the Philippines community and raise living standards by the programs shown on my web site at http://www.islemining.com

This IMX IPO project is long term, in the interests of the community and treasure hunters alike. I simply need the opportunity to complete it and I respectfully ask you to consider one commercial reality: I am an academic and an authority. I will present proof in the coming weeks and I will also bring to all treasure hunters and PI landowners huge resources to commercialize their properties into water resources, farming and agricultural resources together with education and health programs.

I have taken serious consideration of emails from many treasure hunters in the Philippines who have been offended by my writings. I respect their concerns and have changed my approach. I ask that you do the same and give me the opportunity to have exclusive use of this Wikipaedia project and I promise you, that you will be pleased with the result. I promise not to offend anyone and I will change the way I write. But I do need this site to complete my work in attracting the financial resources that are described on the IMX web site.

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