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And apparently they still smelled pretty strong because in one of the pics of them being hauled in.....you can see a woman covering her nose.] (]) 22:52, 16 October 2019 (UTC) | And apparently they still smelled pretty strong because in one of the pics of them being hauled in.....you can see a woman covering her nose.] (]) 22:52, 16 October 2019 (UTC) | ||
== Carswell == | |||
How does he come into this? No explanation offered than the photo caption and one mention that photos were compared with a picture of him. ] (]) 21:48, 13 May 2021 (UTC) | |||
I would like to ask this as well. Carswell's ears and the faces don't match at all. I put up a picture of Roscoe White, as possibly one of the 3 hobos but it was taken down for some reason, I have no idea why... Also same with Sturgis, who doesn't seem to match. The only one who does is Hunt. So what's the deal, why was it taken down? ] (]) 06:42, 22 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
:You need to read up on ].] (]) 16:54, 16 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
:Some people here need to learn how to edit (starting with signing their posts and providing edit summaries). There is RS for Carswell & Sturgis (including the photo comparisons). Your personal opinion as to whether they match is irrelevant. We work with RS. If you want White in the article, get a RS. And by the way, the place to talk about this is here, not my personal talk page.] (]) 17:57, 21 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
Rja13ww33, I didn't know this was the place to chat or I would have continued talking here and not on your site. I kind of thought it was all the same, I guess your name we here and there to me. I will not contact you on your site any longer. I didn't want a argue, I just couldn't understand where to have a chat. It kind of all seems the same to me. Anyway, sorry about that, it won't happen again and I didn't mean to be nasty, it was all so confusing to me and I'm trying my best to understand how this all works. | |||
However, I would like to try and reach you and anyone else interested in this part of the story. So the statement, "In 1979, the House Select Committee on Assassinations reported that forensic anthropologists had again analyzed and compared the photographs of the "tramps" with those of Hunt and Sturgis, as well as with photographs of Thomas Vallee, Daniel Carswell, and Fred Lee Crisman. According to the Committee, only Crisman resembled any of the tramps; but the same Committee determined that he was not in Dealey Plaza on the day of the assassination." The United States House Select Committee on Assassinations never picked anyone, how it is right that Hunt is up when they didn't pick him, even though I do think it was most likely Hunt. So this Hunt image is from another source, I assume it was assassination researchers Alan J. Weberman and Michael Canfield which redirects to Vincent Bugliosi for some reason, Bugliosi who states Oswald acted alone. | |||
Now looking at Dan Carswell right here, what do you think? I don't see much of a match. Even more so if you match it to the 3 Tramps photo on this page. The eyes are wrong, the nose is wrong. The lower park of the ear is wrong. If you look up all the images of Tramp A, in a few of the shots, it looks like he is wearing a toupee. | |||
Dan Carswell - https://content.invisioncic.com/r16296/monthly_2018_02/5a909add0640e_threetrampsCOMPAREDTOdAVIDcHRISTAKAdANIELcARSWELL.jpg.cbca252107f88f5ad16b1620295e0ae7.jpg | |||
Tramp A, zoom in to see if you can see it, looks like a toupee - https://library.uta.edu/digitalgallery/sites/library.uta.edu.digitalgallery/files/10000000-10009999new/10005175.jpg | |||
Tramp A, same here, looks like a toupee - https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth184800/m1/1/med_res/ | |||
Here is a Roscoe White in a toupee - https://jfkplayersandwitnesses.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/roscoe-white-toupee.jpg | |||
As a cop - https://i.ytimg.com/vi/2gN0bmCKn3E/hqdefault.jpg | |||
Mugshot - https://i.pinimg.com/originals/c4/79/4e/c4794e98437f2af83202630791f18b93.jpg | |||
Here is 9 images of him - http://merdist.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Roscoe-collage2-small.png | |||
So, tell me what you think, can you see a likeness? ] (]) 08:13, 22 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
:You are still operating under the mistaken impression that we are here to make our own judgments on this. We work with RS to come up with a article. RS says these people were looked at as being the 3 tramps....so that is what we run with. As far as Roscoe White goes, I am not aware of any RS saying he was one of the tramps. Certainly he has been alleged to be one of the grassy knoll shooters.....but this page is about the tramps. (The two aren't necessarily the same.)] (]) 17:20, 22 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
::Did you even look at the images? These are the people who you say picked these people Alan J. Weberman and Michael Canfield, correct? Interesting bit of on him. ALERT! THIS WEBSITE HAS BEEN SEIZED! THIS WEBSITE HAS BEEN SEIZED BY THE LAW OFFICE OF GARY KURTZ TO ASSIST IN THE ENFORCEMENT OF DEFAMATION JUDGMENTS OBTAINED BY GARY KURTZ AND HIS CLIENT, STEVEN RAMBAM, AGAINST: ALAN JULES WEBERMAN (AKA "AJ" WEBERMAN, DANIEL BEN-TZION) ] (]) 00:26, 23 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
:::Are you reading what I am saying? Where (among these images) is a RS saying White was one of the Tramps?] (]) 00:43, 23 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
::::Are you reading what I'm saying? Your RS is from a Book by A. J. Weberman and Michael Canfield, who's info comes from a paperback "Coup d'Etat in America: The CIA and the Assassination of John F. Kennedy"... These are your RS? Also from a man who's website has been seaized. https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKweberman.htm http://ajweberman.com/ So can you not see my problem with this? ] (]) 00:52, 23 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
:::::And? I thought the subject here was White. After all, that is what you tried to add to the article. (Aside from removing pictures supplied by the HSCA which is RS.) So what exactly are you talking about? And by the way, the Weberman & Canfield book, while not published by the most notable publishing house in the world....was published and not self published. Ergo it is probably RS. In any case, the edits you made to the article have nothing to do with Weberman & Canfield. And furthermore, you still don't understand what RS is.] (]) 01:11, 23 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
::::::And... you know the HSCA picked NO ONE as the tramps and they didn't supply these pictures. Those images are Weberman & Canfield assumptions and THIS is your RS? These two guys, who published a book? So clearly you are the one who doesn't understand the concept of a reliable source, if THESE are the people who you think on the experts. These are the only people I know of that had made these assumptions and if you look up "Best books on jfk assassination" on google, there book is no were to be found... So these guys are you RS? ] (]) 01:25, 23 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
:::::::The HSCA didn't supply these pictures?! WTF? Click on one of them....what do see down at the bottom? On the Hunt picture I see this "US Government - House Select Committee on Assassinations, Appendix to Hearings - Volume VI, Page 279 (1979)". And I verified the page(s) on all of them.] (]) 01:30, 23 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
::::::::But it was not supplied by them, it was supplied Weberman & Canfield, which was discredited by HSCA. ] (]) 01:39, 23 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::So what? The fact that it appears in RS (i.e. the HSCA report) is what is relevant. If you want to call it ....get a RS for that claim.] (]) 01:46, 23 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::The fact that this was discredited by HSCA is a lot more relevant. This should mean that any REAL connection to the images should be considered, surely if there is a match to the look of the person, no? They said Hunt was not Tramp C, even though I think it looks a whole lot like him. So is this not part of it as well? They say it's not him, yet there he is on this page. I honestly don't know why you and others are not seeing this discrepancy on this site. Anyone else reading this want to throw there 2 cents in cause I'm kind of losing it. ] (]) 02:19, 23 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::We already note in the article that the HSCA, the FBI and so on have pretty much discredited the theory that any of these guys were the tramps. There is nothing wrong with publishing material from RS examining claims (even discredited ones). As long as proper judgments are made as far as WEIGHT, RS, and so on.....that is what counts. You seem (again) to want to proceed with stuff like "I think it looks a whole lot like him". That's not how we do it here.] (]) 02:28, 23 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::::I'm going to go and play Destiny with my friends, to be continued... ] (]) 02:31, 23 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::::You (instead) need to be doing some reading on how to edit here: ], ], ], etc, etc.] (]) 02:41, 23 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::::::HSCA discredited your reliable sources, namely Weberman & Canfield... Sorry but you are not making any sense at all. I can not be the only person here who understands this. ] (]) 04:21, 23 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::::::Among the many things you still don't seem to understand is that we examine (false) claims all the time via RS here. By your logic (for example), the ] article should be canned and the RS that her claims appear in are no longer RS. That's not how it works. I am (frankly) tired of playing these games and answering a lot of nonsense from someone who doesn't know how to edit here. So this is it for me until you get a clue as to how to post here. But any change to this article that violates the rules of things like RS will get reverted. Count on it.] (]) 04:41, 23 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
Now that sounds like a threat... Funny... You have NO RS, sorry, your wrong. ] (]) 06:43, 23 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
:I am uninvolved administrator who noticed the ]. A certain amount of latitude is available for new editors but that will expire very soon. As ], from now on, you must restrict your comments to actionable proposals to improve the article, based on ]. Do not comment about "threats" or "FUNNY" or use other standard internet parrying—at Misplaced Pages, participants must focus on content using Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. If you are going to post again, please clearly identify what change to the article you believe should occur and what reliable source supports that change. ] (]) 06:58, 23 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
To Johnuniq... I get a "WTF?" and ... "But any change to this article that violates the rules of things like RS will get reverted. Count on it." These sound a bit like threats and I did find it a bit funny... Sorry but that is not on me, that's on him... | |||
Weberman & Canfield wrote the book "Coup d'Etat in America: The CIA and the Assassination of John F. Kennedy" in 1975... That was over 45 years ago... They are the only ones who put forth these guys as possible suspects. Those suspects were discredited by HSCA, not only that but Fred Lee Crisman was consider a suspect, not Dan Carswell and Crisman was dismissed as well. So you are telling me that these suspects, picked by amateur investigators Weberman & Canfield 45 years ago must stay, unless I have a reliable source in 2021 that is proof positive, when Sturgis and Carswell are iffy at best. I have to ask, does that make sense to you at all? I mean, maybe I'm just being dumb but I hope you can see my point how this seems to present a conflict of interest. ] (]) 08:19, 23 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
:I do not have an opinion regarding the content of this article. If you have a proposal to improve the article, make it. If you believe something should be removed, spell it out and give a reason. Same if you think something should be changed or added. Regarding your opening comments on Carswell, the response you received is accurate—even if someone is now known to have not been there, the article should still record what was said at the time. If you want to add ], you need to produce a reliable source that makes that connection. ] (]) 11:20, 23 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
Thanks Notfrompedro but this will get me nowhere... It's like running around in a circle... ] (]) 13:26, 23 July 2021 (UTC) | |||
== I believe Roscoe White could have been one of the 3 tramps == | == I believe Roscoe White could have been one of the 3 tramps == |
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Photograph
This article is basically about a photograph - yet one doesn't appear anywhere in the article? GiantSnowman 10:20, 3 August 2012 (UTC)
- That's what I was gonna say. --67.165.140.73 (talk) 06:10, 13 September 2012 (UTC)
- Pics of Hunt and Sturgis in the HSCA volumes. Are these okay to upload and include in the article? Raquel_Baranow (talk) 23:55, 3 October 2012 (UTC)
- I uploaded the pics to wikimedia Hunt and Sturgis Raquel_Baranow (talk) 00:28, 4 October 2012 (UTC)
Interesting
I find it a bit odd that the article makes a jump from "Three tramps were arrested . . . " right to the conspiracy theories. It seems to completely ignore the fact that the three of them had no record taken of their arrest or their interviews (If they really were interviewed) and seems to just slaughter the theories without actually offering anymore information. That seems very one-sided to me. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Terralips (talk • contribs) 02:32, 14 April 2013 (UTC)
- The last section states:
- In 1992, journalist Mary La Fontaine discovered the November 22, 1963 arrest records that the Dallas Police Department had released in 1989, which named the three men as Gus W. Abrams, Harold Doyle, and John F. Gedney. According to the arrest reports, the three men were "taken off a boxcar in the railroad yards right after President Kennedy was shot", detained as "investigative prisoners", described as unemployed and passing through Dallas, then released four days later.
- You are welcome to edit the article directly if you think it is missing something. Location (talk) 00:18, 18 April 2013 (UTC)
There were 12 men arrested in the area boxcars. There is zero connection between these three men in the photo, who according to the arresting officer were relesased a few hours later, with the named three homeless men who were jailed for a week. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.185.19.114 (talk) 20:54, 17 October 2019 (UTC)
Add "The" to the article title?
Should this article be called "The three tramps" instead of "Three tramps"? This is about a specific group of three people, and would ordinarily be preceded by "the" in running text. See WP:THE. —BarrelProof (talk) 22:19, 2 March 2017 (UTC)
Clean cut?
In the article it says this:
Photographs of the three at the time of their arrest have fueled speculation as to the identities of the three "tramps", as they appeared to be well-dressed and clean-shaven, seemingly unlikely for hobos riding the rails.
By the account cited in the article (via Vince B's book) they cleaned up at a mission (the night before) prior to their arrest. No big mystery.
And apparently they still smelled pretty strong because in one of the pics of them being hauled in.....you can see a woman covering her nose.Rja13ww33 (talk) 22:52, 16 October 2019 (UTC)
I believe Roscoe White could have been one of the 3 tramps
No original research thanks, see WP:NOR. Johnuniq (talk) 11:25, 23 July 2021 (UTC) |
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The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it. |
I would very much rather not hear from Rja13ww33 on this topic. I would much rather hear from anyone else here with your opinion. Now I have tried to figure out a way to upload images directly here but have been unsuccessful up to this point, if you know, please let me know what I am doing wrong. So I will post links to images of Roscoe White and images of Tramp A and I would love your opinion on it. Please let me know what you think. Here are 9 images of Roscoe White, in one image, mid left, he is wearing a wig. http://merdist.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Roscoe-collage2-small.png Here the one in the middle, where I think Hunt was behind him trying his best not to be seen. The face looks a whole lot like Roscoe White and if you zoom in a bit, it's feels like he is wearing a wig. https://library.uta.edu/digitalgallery/sites/library.uta.edu.digitalgallery/files/10000000-10009999new/10005175.jpg Here the focus is not as good but again, you can see very similar structure in the face. https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EUHYu56WkAAJbbS.jpg:large As well in this photo... https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth184798/m1/1/high_res/ Same here and if you look close, it would seem he is wearing a wig. https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth184800/m1/1/high_res/ So, here it is. I would love to know your thoughts and what you believe. Thanks Maurice Mo Jordan (talk) 09:16, 23 July 2021 (UTC) |
- I did not notice this section when writing my "11:20, 23 July 2021" comment above. Our opinions on Roscoe White or on the three tramps is not relevant and should not be discussed on Misplaced Pages. Instead, a reliable source would be needed, and that source would need to explain a connection between White and the topic in this article. Johnuniq (talk) 11:25, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
Wait, hold up... So we can't even talk about our thoughts... in the talk section? So I assume there's really no place we can talk about our thoughts at all? This makes even less sense then the last post.
So.... I need a reliable source... even though Weberman & Canfield sources are somewhat questionable? Am I getting this right? Maurice Mo Jordan (talk) 12:27, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
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