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Revision as of 22:03, 15 February 2022 view sourceDrmies (talk | contribs)Autopatrolled, Checkusers, Oversighters, Administrators407,819 edits →Norm Macdonald← Previous edit Revision as of 22:29, 15 February 2022 view source Kristieskunberg (talk | contribs)18 edits →Board info: new sectionTag: RevertedNext edit →
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:::::Well, the ] part is basically just citing the movie itself as a source. Like any other source, you need to have access to it in order to verify what's written. {{tq|Provided the film is publicly available, citing the film explicitly in the plot summary's section is not necessary, since the film is the primary source and the infobox provides details about the film. Secondary sources must be used for all other cases, such as upcoming films (including those that had sneak previews and only played at film festivals) and lost films, as these would not be considered generally available or verifiable.}} This does lead to difficulty in verifying if you don't want to watch an entire movie to get an idea of the plot. ] (]) 21:23, 15 February 2022 (UTC) :::::Well, the ] part is basically just citing the movie itself as a source. Like any other source, you need to have access to it in order to verify what's written. {{tq|Provided the film is publicly available, citing the film explicitly in the plot summary's section is not necessary, since the film is the primary source and the infobox provides details about the film. Secondary sources must be used for all other cases, such as upcoming films (including those that had sneak previews and only played at film festivals) and lost films, as these would not be considered generally available or verifiable.}} This does lead to difficulty in verifying if you don't want to watch an entire movie to get an idea of the plot. ] (]) 21:23, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
:I source my plot summaries... But yes, no source required, officially. But that's yet another reason to write them carefully and economically. See and the previous two edits: character descriptions are also deemed (erroneously, IMO) to be fair game, and many of them, esp. in anime and children's TV shows, verge into OR and analysis. So yes, I'm totally on board with the "basic description" you propose. ] (]) 22:02, 15 February 2022 (UTC) :I source my plot summaries... But yes, no source required, officially. But that's yet another reason to write them carefully and economically. See and the previous two edits: character descriptions are also deemed (erroneously, IMO) to be fair game, and many of them, esp. in anime and children's TV shows, verge into OR and analysis. So yes, I'm totally on board with the "basic description" you propose. ] (]) 22:02, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

== Board info ==

Hello Drmies :) New to Misplaced Pages, thanks for your patience. Was trying to add two new board members to the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library page. I am a team member of of the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library which I am declaring/understand is a conflict of interest. Hoping you can review my edits and publish. Thank you!

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Merry Christmas!

Merry Christmas Drmies I hope you are having a happy holidays S201050066 24 December 2021

Ip problems

Greetings and all the best in New Year, this ip ] appeared today and started doing unsourced changes on Ajvar page, I have warned them but they just ignored me, also since this page was under attacks in December too, is it possible to semi protecting it? Thank you. Theonewithreason (talk) 18.January 2022 (UTC)

Sing along, Doktoro!

In popular culture

  • Benjamin Britten referenced The Minstrel Boy in his opera Owen Wingrave several times, starting with the principal characters Lechmere and Owen not using exactly the original melody, but a slightly distorted version of it, in scene 1. In the analysis of music history professor J. Harper-Scott, Britten's assumption would be have been that the opera's audience would either know the theme being referenced, or at least recognize its type. Lechmere's recital diverges from the original after the first arpeggio and progressively drops in pitch by semitones and tones at various points thereafter, ending a perfect fourth below the where the original would have been. Owen's recital is even more divergent, and not only progressively drops in pitch from the original as well to a major third below, but even omits notes. Lechemere uses the original words from Moore's song, given in quotation marks in the score for the opera; but, in contrast, in the final scene of the first act, the character Sir Philip uses the tune and adheres more closely to the original than Owen does, but applies it instead to the final two words of "for right and England". The tune is also used, distorted, at various other points throughout the opera, including Lechemere's conversation with Kate where he sings "But Kate, does he reject you?" to a less distorted version of the original melody.
  • Charles Villiers Stanford made overt political commentary on contemporary politics in Ireland in his music, including, amongst other places, the quotation of the first verse of The Minstrel Boy as preface to his score of his Fourth Irish Rhapsody.
  • James Joyce parodied the song in Finnegans Wake as "The Leinstrel boy to the wall has gone".

References

  1. Harper-Scott 2018, pp. 51–52.
  2. ^ Harper-Scott 2018, p. 52.
  3. Harper-Scott 2018, pp. 52–53.
  4. ^ Harper-Scott 2018, p. 53.
  5. Allis 2012, p. 87.
  6. Benjamin 2009, p. 311.
Bibliography
  • Harper-Scott, J. P. E. (2018). Ideology in Britten's Operas. Music since 1900. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 9781108416368.
  • Allis, Michael (2012). "Stanford and Tennyson". British Music and Literary Context: Artistic Connections in the Long Nineteenth Century. Music in Britain, 1600–1900. Vol. 8. Boydell Press. ISBN 9781843837305. ISSN 1752-1904.
  • Benjamin, Roy (2009). "Waking the King: Faction and Fission in Finnegans Wake". James Joyce Quarterly. 46 (2). University of Tulsa: 305–320. JSTOR 27820960.

We know how Doktoro loves popular culture, lurkers. So please feel free to help Doktoro to sing along, too.

Uncle G (talk) 11:25, 24 January 2022 (UTC)

By the way, Doktoro: We already knew of your love of J-pop and K-pop. Now we also know of your love of I-pop.

Uncle G (talk) 14:40, 26 January 2022 (UTC)

  • Howdy Uncle--were you topic-banned from adding this material? Am I proxy-editing for some nefarious purpose? Do both these verbs actually need to be hyphenated? Drmies (talk) 15:17, 26 January 2022 (UTC)
    • Well sing-along I find to be often hyphenated as a noun, Doktoro, if that helps. G.B. Shaw climbed upon the I-pop train, too. So you are in elevated company, although Shaw would probably have you spell it ipop. William Brough did a novelty version for the hit parade, which you could try singing instead. Not true I-pop by your strict standards, perhaps, but still popular, and still culture. Uncle G (talk) 01:25, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

"Thou shalt have a fishy, on a little dishy …"

I noticed that you were trying your hand at some L-pop, as well. I'm not sure what you were looking for, but I believe that sheet music exists.

You can dance to this one, Doktoro, as well as sing. So come on!

The number is clearly an intentional detail, given the lack of precision and detail elsewhere in the story; and theologians have lent much credence to Augustine's numerology simply because it comes from historic rather than contemporary theology.

Jerome reached much the same conclusion as Augustine that the figure is an allegorical representation of totality, but through more straightforward means rather than through numerology. In his Commentary on Ezekiel he propounded the hypothesis that 153 was meant to represent the whole universe of fish, citing as proof that contemporary poets, giving Oppian as an example, believed that there were 153 species of fish in the world. However, Robert M. Grant disproved Jerome's hypothesis by noting that Oppian actually enumerated only 149 (as catalogued by Alexander William Mair) fish species in his Halieutica (or only 152 "by adding 3 worms", in Grant's words). What Oppian actually said, moreover, was that only the gods knew the number; and other ancient authors gave different numbers that still were not 153, such as Pliny The Elder in Naturalis Historia (9.43) recording only 74, 104, or 144 (depending from how one counts, and whether one includes hard shelled animals) species of fish, and Quintus Ennius as reported by Apuleius enumerating "countless kinds of fish". "Every ancient ichthyologian counted the number of species differently." stated Grant.

David Strauss had in fact pointed out the same thing about Oppian in his Leben Jesu the century before Grant. From a strictly biological point of view, moreover, only 24 species of fish had been recorded in the Sea of Galilee by the turn of the 20th century. Theologians have continued to support Jerome's hypothesis despite Grant and Strauss, arguing variously that Jerome may have had access to other works of Oppian that are now lost, that Oppian was writing a century after the Gospel of John and at least came close, and that perhaps (despite his having mentioned Oppian by name) Jerome's reference to multiple writers actually meant other writers entirely. Grant himself opined that "there is every reason to suppose" that in fact Jerome had not actually checked Oppian's writing directly for this information, but was rather recounting secondhand some earlier Christian commentary on the Gospel of John.

Many other numerological interpretations have been propounded, from adding numerological representations of Simon's name to the Greek word for fish through the additions (100+50+7) of Cyril of Alexandria to the multiplications (17×3×3) of Gregory the Great. Frédéric Louis Godet characterized them as "strange". There were at least 18 distinct numerological explanations when John Emerton performed "a quick survey" in 1958. Emerton proceeded to then add a gematrial explanation, to which 8 others have been added since. Professor of the New Testament, Crag S. Keener observed in 2010 the several gematrial explanations, critiquing ideas such as reversing the order of the Greek alphabet as being "forced", noting that a "children of God" reading of the number "import a ministry image from Mark 1:17 that John never mentions", and commenting on allegorical suggestions linking to Moses that "one wonders whether John could have expected any members of his original audience to catch"; summarizing that gematrial explanations that may scholars have put forward are too complex to be discovered without starting from the answer desired and working backwards from there, and that the plethora of such explanations all distinct from one another itself indicates their weakness.

However, there have been more prosaic and literal explanations, including the simple straightforward one that the detail is simply correct, and 153 is the number of fish caught. John Bernard argued by quoting Edwin Hatch that "The idea that ancient literature consists of riddles which it is the business of modern literature to solve has passed for ever away.", pointing out the irony of a Gnostic-like search for meaning in the tale when John himself was simply being quite literal. Godet, likewise, asserted that it was just "a simple fact recalled to mind". R. Alan Culpepper (who was dean of the McAfee School of Theology at Mercer University) observed, in his 2021 overview of seven distinct classes of argument about the number, that whilst there are arguments in favour of symbolic interpretations "Nevertheless, the text gives no basis for interpreting the number.". Professor of New Testament Studies Timothy James Wiarda stated that "It is sufficient to note that the text offers the reader no hint concerning any symbolism in the miraculous catch of fish.". Keener, having discounted gematria, Jerome (per Grant and Strauss), and Augustine (with a simple analysis of how probable it is to pick numbers have have at least some special property, be that they are triangular, square, prime, or otherwise), concludes that the straightforward explanation is the more likely one and that "the number could simply stem from an accurate memory of a careful count on the occasion", quoting Archibald Macbride Hunter in hise 1965 Cambridge Bible Commentaries that it is "no more symbolical than the hundred yards that Peter swam. It is the remembered number of a 'bumper' catch."

Culpepper's 3 other classes (aside from Jerome, literalism, gematria, and Augustine) are algebraic interpretations based on 153 itself, algebraic interpretations based on the number 17, and the hypothesis that the symbolic meaning of the number exists but is no longer discoverable.

References

  1. ^ Flanagan 1992, p. 1018.
  2. ^ Twelftree 1999, pp. 218–219.
  3. ^ Culpepper 2020, p. 539. sfn error: no target: CITEREFCulpepper2020 (help)
  4. ^ Grant 2002, p. 23.
  5. ^ Keener 2010, p. 109.
  6. ^ Godet & Dwight 1893, p. 443.
  7. Edwards 2008, p. 205.
  8. ^ Culpepper 2021, p. 537.
  9. Edwards 2008, pp. 204–205.
  10. ^ Manning Jr 2004, pp. 189–190.
  11. Keener 2010, p. 108.
  12. Bernard 1928a, pp. lxxxvi–lxxxviii.
  13. Bernard 1928b, pp. 699–700.
  14. Godet & Dwight 1893, p. 444.
  15. Wiarda 1992.
  16. Hunter 1965, p. 195.
Bibliography
  • Twelftree, Graham H. (1999). "Miracles in the Fourth Gospel". Jesus the Miracle Worker: A Historical and Theological Study. InterVarsity Press. ISBN 9780830815968.
  • Flanagan, Neal M. (1992). "John". In Karris, Robert J. (ed.). The Collegeville Bible Commentary: Based on the New American Bible. Liturgical Press. ISBN 9780814622117.
  • Edwards, Mark (2008). John Through the Centuries. Wiley Blackwell Bible Commentaries. John Wiley & Sons. ISBN 9781405143196.
  • Culpepper, R. Alan (2021). Designs for the Church in the Gospel of John: Collected Essays, 1980–2020. Wissenschaftliche Untersuchungen zum Neuen Testament. Vol. 465. Mohr Siebeck. ISBN 9783161602627.
  • Bernard, John Henry (1928). "Introduction". A critical and exegetical commentary on the Gospel According to St John. Vol. 1. Edinburgh: ICC. ISBN 9780567050243.
  • Bernard, John Henry (1928). "Notes on the Greek text". A critical and exegetical commentary on the Gospel According to St John. Vol. 2. Edinburgh: ICC. ISBN 9780567050243.
  • Grant, Robert M. (2002). "Unusual animals". Early Christians and Animals. Routledge. ISBN 9781134633753.
  • Manning Jr, Gary T. (2004). Echoes of a Prophet: The Use of Ezekiel in the Gospel of John and in Literature of the Second Temple Period. The Library of New Testament Studies. Vol. 270. A&C Black. ISBN 9780567639288.
  • Godet, Frédéric Louis; Dwight, Timothy (1893). Commentary on the Gospel of John, with an Historical and Critical Introduction. New York: Funk & Wagnalls.
  • Wiarda, Timothy James (1992). "John 21.1–23: Narrative Unity and Its Implications". Journal for the Study of the New Testament. 14 (6): 53–71. doi:10.1177/0142064X9201404604.
  • Keener, Craig S. (2010). "Epilogue (21:2–25)". The Gospel of John. Baker Academic. ISBN 9781441237057.
  • Hunter, Archibald Macbride (1965). Hunter, Alan (ed.). The Gospel According to John. Cambridge Bible Commentaries on the New Testament. Cambridge University Press. ISBN 9780521092555.

Further reading

InterVarsity is some sort of football league, ne?

Uncle G (talk) 13:36, 27 January 2022 (UTC)

Petey rains soon in gentle Hertford

How does one operate your English Professor Vaccuum again, Doktoro? I tried to get Edgar F. Shannon Jr. into pity, but it turns out that xe is dead. Uncle G (talk) 00:57, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Hi!

You may be interested in this IP . I suspect it may be a sock for the recently blocked https://en.wikipedia.org/User:ErikFelik Doctorhawkes (talk) 10:01, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Pleasant surprise from Gordimalo

I long forgot about this user and his many sockpuppets until he decided to leave a sweet little message on my talk page over... tennis... Well, I never followed tennis but glad to know he is still thinking about me one year later. Maybe next time it will be some flowers. Mellk (talk) 10:51, 31 January 2022 (UTC)

Going the whole 9 yards for triple metres

I think that the cargo-cult encyclopaedia article writers are trying to refute, by pile-on example, the oft-held claim that pop music isn't written in triple time. I know that one can go to YouTube to refute this, even going as far as a robot talking about your favourite musical genre, but in deference to your sensitivities I wondered whether we could find an English professor saying this, which we could then pass along to M. Canadian. Unfortunately, I could only find a Musical Chair, Doktoro.

Uncle G (talk) 15:21, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

    • Oh well, I've gone through it and removed some other stuff (including a staggeringly anachronistic mention of "Latin America" - you can't really speak of "Latin America" when most of the people there did not speak any language even remotely related to it)... RandomCanadian (talk / contribs) 15:36, 1 February 2022 (UTC)
  • Interesting, Uncle! My boy looked up with surprise when I played the K-pop thing. That other song, that's just absolutely amazing. Yes, the previous fucking government promised a lot, but it was under Obama that we had (short-lived) dreams of the railroad coming back. Anyway, I like what RandomCanadian is doing. Yet another article that suffers from accretion and lack of attention--there are so many of them. Drmies (talk) 15:39, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Visibility

Hi, can you change visibility on this edit, because it may be disturbing to some viewers who are looking at the page history. Thank you. Severestorm28 02:48, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Proposed deletion of Thomas Lodowys

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Books & Bytes – Issue 48

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Issue 48, November – December 2021

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February songs

February songs
frozen

... or latish happy new year! It started nicely with long vacation, pictured if you click on songs, and a few days still missing. I waited for a special day, a feast day for which Bach wrote several cantatas including Mit Fried und Freud ich fahr dahin, BWV 125, which was on DYK 10 years ago and TFA 4 years ago. I'm less happy that Georg Christoph Biller had to wait days for a Main page appearance under recent deaths, and then stayed not even for a full day. It would have been so meaningful today, with the man in the cantata saying he can depart in joy and peace. - The February pic was taken in memory last year. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:36, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Russia

The change to the Soviet Union's national anthem was a factor in the production of the 1944 movie Hymn of the Nations, which made use of an orchestration of the L'Internationale that Arturo Toscanini had already done the year before for a 1943-11-07 NBC radio broadcast commemorating the sixth anniversary of the October Revolution. It was incorporated into Verdi's Inno delle nazioni alongside the national anthems of Great Britain (already in the original) and the United States (incorporated by Toscanini for a prior radio broadcast of the Inno in January of that year) to signify the side of the the Allies during World War Two.

Toscanini's son Walter remarked that an Italian audience for the movie would see the significance of Arturo being willing to play these anthems and unwilling to play Giovinezza and the Marcia Reale because of his anti-Fascist political views. Alexandr Hackenschmied, the film's director, expressed his view that the song was "ormai archeologico" (nearly archaeological), but this was a countered in a letter by Walter Toscanini to Giuseppe Antonio Borgese, rejecting the objections of Borgese, Hackenschmied, and indeed the Office of War Information. At the time, Walter stated that he believed that L'Internationale had widespread relevance across Europe, and in 1966 he recounted in correspondence that the OWI had "panicked" when it had learned of the Soviet Union's plans, but Arturo had issued an ultimatum that if L'Internationale, "l'inno di tutte le glebe ed i lavoratori di tutto il mondo" (the anthem of the working classes of the whole world) was not included, that if the already done orchestration and performance were not used as-is, then they should forget about distributing the film entirely.

The inclusion of L'Internationale in the Toscanini's minds was not simply for the sake of a Soviet Union audience, but because of its relevance to all countries of the world. Although Walter did not consider L'Internationale to be "good music", he considered it to be (as he stated to the OWI) "more than the hymn of a nation or a party" and "an idea of brotherhood".

It would have been expensive to re-record a new performance of the Inno without L'Internationale, and it remained in the movie as originally released. Some time during the McCarthy Era, however, it was edited out of re-released copies, and remained so until a 1988 Library of Congress release on video, which restored L'Internationale to the movie.

A similar situation had occurred earlier in the War with the BBC's popular weekly Sunday evening radio broadcast, preceding the Nine O'Clock News, titled National Anthems of the Allies, whose playlist was all of the national anthems of the countries allied with the United Kingdom, the list growing with each country that Germany invaded. After the Germans began the Operation Barbarossa invasion of the Soviet Union on 1941-06-22, it was fully expected that the L'Internationale, as the anthem of the Soviet Union, would be incluided in the playlist that day; but to people's surprise it was not, neither that week nor the week after. Winston Churchill, a staunch opponent of Communism, had immediately sent word to the BBC via Anthony Eden that "The PM has issued an instruction to the Ministry of Information that the Internationale is on no account to be played by the B.B.C." (emphasis in the original).

The newspapers such as the Daily Express and Daily Mail were sharply critical of the Foreign Office, and questions were asked in the House of Commons. Ambassador Ivan Maisky recorded in his diary a conversation with Duff Cooper on 1941-07-11 where Cooper asked him if the music played after Vyacheslav Molotov's speech on 1941-06-22 would be acceptable to the Soviet Union, and he replied that it would not be. (The music was Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture.) On the evening of 1941-07-13, the BBC instead played, in Maisky's words, "a very beautiful but little-known Soviet song", which he described as demonstrating "the British Government's cowardice and foolishness". Rather than risk offending the Soviet Union by continuing to pointedly refuse to play its national anthem in a radio programme entitled National Anthems, the BBC discontinued the programme. Six months later on 1942-01-22 Churchill relented and lifted the prohibition.

Dmitry Shostakovich used L'Internationale twice for the movie soundtrack to the 1936 Soviet movie Girl Friends, once performed by a military-style band when a group of women are preparing for war, and a second time as a solo performance on a theremin.

China

Qu Qiubai revised the translation of the lyrics into Chinese after having attended the Fourth Conference of Comintern in November 1921 and having not been able to join in the spontaneous singing by attendees there of L'Internationale in their various home languages with their own Chinese rendition because the Chinese attendees didn't have a good one. He proceeded, according to the political memoirs of his contemporaries, in 1923 to re-translate the lyrics from the original French at the organ in his cousin's home in Beijing, publishing them in New Youth, a journal that he was the editor-in-chief of.

This has become part of the cultural narrative of Qu's life, including in a 2001 television dramatization of events, The Sun Rises from the East, where Qu is depicted as explaining to Cai Hesen that he (Qu) did not translate the song's title because he wished to make the Chinese version, which used a phonetic rendering of the French name using Chinese words "yingtenaixiongnaier", accessible to a multi-lingual non-Chinese-speaking audience. The television dramatization included excerpts from the movie Lenin in October, a popular movie in China during the time of Mao with scenes that were set to L'Internationale.

Lenin in October was one of several movies from Soviet cinema translated into Chinese in the 1950s that led to the widespread popularity of L'Internationale in the early years of the PRC. Others include Lenin in 1918, a 1939 movie which came to China in 1951, with L'Internationale abruptly terminated at the point in the movie that Lenin is shot by an assassin; and the 1952 The Unforgettable 1919 which came to China that same year and used L'Internationale for a mass rally scene involving Joseph Stalin. Chinese movies about martyrs to the CCP cause would begin to incorporate the song into pivotal scenes later in the 1950s, this use peaking in the 1960s with inclusion into such movies as the 1965 Living Forever in Burning Flames depicting the execution of Jiang Jie. In the 1956 movie Mother, the character Lao Deng, a local revolutionary leader, is depicted singing L'Internationale on the way to his execution, and in the 1960 A Revolutionary Family the son of the protagonist (in chorus with his fellow prisoners) also sings L'Internationale on the way to his execution. It would become a leitmotif of Chinese Revolutionary (model) cinema.

Political memoirs of Li Dazhao's daughter Li Xinghua recount his explaining the lyrics of the song to her, he having encountered it on his travels with Qu in 1923 and during his visit to Moscow the following year. He also encouraged people to sing it during socialist activism training sessions in 1925 and 1926. As with Qu, the song forms part of the cultural narrative of his life, it being the widely accepted account of his execution in 1927 that he sang the song in the last moments of his life.

As with Qu and Li, the song is found in many places in political histories of CCP leaders and martyrs to its cause, symbolizing their socialist ideals, including Zhu De, Zhou Enlai, and Deng Xiaoping. It has also seen continued, and sometimes contradictory, uses over the decades as politics in China have changed, such as (for one example) Chen Yun's use in the 1960s to justify a new agricultural land allocation policy. It has maintained its status as a de facto CCP anthem, and its continued relevance over the decades can be seen in its inclusion in all three of the 1964 The East Is Red, the 1984 The Song of the Chinese Revolution, and the 2009 The Road to Prosperity.

Whilst the song has a wide influence as an adjunct of offical ideology, it has also been used in counter-cultural movements, such as the demonstrators in the 1989 Tiananmen Square protests singing it during their final retreat. Barbara Mittler maintains that this dual use of L'Internationale by the government and by people demonstrating against it disproves any hypothesis that "a certain type of music 'depicts' a certain social environment".

Timothy Garton Ash related a more pronounced rôle reversal in the August 1980 negotiations surrounding the creation of Solidarity, describing in his 1983 book The Polish Revolution striking workers watching the plenary of the ruling Polish United Workers' Party on television. In response to the government officials singing L'Internationale on screen, a Party ritual, workers spontaneously broke into a recital of the national anthem of Poland, which Ash characterized as "'Arise ye prisoners of want' pipes the box; 'Poland is not yet lost' thunders the hall."

L'Internationale continues to be popular with 21st century Chinese audiences, as exemplified by its reception by audience when sung at the second curtain call of the "Shocking" concert of Liu Han, Liao Changyong, and Mo Hualun.

Qu was hired as a translator for students at the Communist University of the Toilers of the East in Moscow, where he met Xiao San in 1922, who had newly arrived from France. There, Xiao was drawn into the performing arts as a vehicle for revolutionary messages and, in conjunction with other students, translated L'Internationale and several Soviet songs from the original French and Russian into Chinese, separately from Qu's work in Beijing in 1923. Xiao re-worked his translation in 1939, adding to it an explanatory history. Ironically, the translation in the television dramatization The Sun Rises from the East that is recited by the character of Qu, is not in reality Qu's translation at all, but is the 1949 official approved translation based upon Xiao's, that is additionally credited to Zheng Zhenduo.

The 2004 movie My Years in France, a biopic of Deng Xiaoping, re-framed this history into a dramatic scene, set in 1920s Paris before Xiao leaves for Moscow, in which Zhou Enlai, Liu Qingyang, Zhang Shenfu, and others climb to the top of Notre Dame to to sing L'Internationale to the accompaniment of its bell Emmanuel, and the character of Xiao resolves at that point, instead, to translate the song into Chinese.

References

  1. ^ Marvin 2017, p. 106.
  2. Horowitz 1994, p. 179.
  3. ^ Marvin 2017, p. 107.
  4. ^ Marvin 2017, pp. 107–108.
  5. ^ Marvin 2017, p. 108.
  6. Miner 2003, p. 206.
  7. ^ Hermiston 2016, p. 115.
  8. ^ Miner 2003, p. 207.
  9. ^ Addison 1975, p. 134.
  10. Hermiston 2016, pp. 115–116.
  11. Maisky 2015, pp. 371–372.
  12. Maisky 2015, p. 372.
  13. ^ Hermiston 2016, p. 116.
  14. Titus 2016, pp. 146, 157–158.
  15. Chen 2016, p. 196.
  16. ^ Chen 2016, p. 197.
  17. ^ Chen 2016, p. 198.
  18. ^ Chen 2016, p. 200.
  19. Chen 2016, p. 201.
  20. Chen 2016, pp. 200, 202.
  21. Chen 2016, p. 2013.
  22. Chen 2016, p. 204.
  23. Chen 2016, pp. 198–199.
  24. Chen 2016, p. 199.
  25. Chen 2016, p. 209.
  26. Mittler 1997, p. 133.
  27. ^ Bohlman 2020, p. 119.
  28. Chen 2016, p. 210.
  29. McGuire 2018, pp. 74, 82.
  30. McGuire 2018, p. 82.
  31. McGuire 2018, p. 389.
  32. Chen 2016, p. 211.
  33. Chen 2016, p. 206.
Bibliography
  • Marvin, Roberta Montemorra (2017). The Politics of Verdi's Cantica. Routledge. ISBN 9781351541459.
  • Horowitz, Joseph (1994). Understanding Toscanini: A Social History of American Concert Life. University of California Press. ISBN 9780520085428.
  • Chen, Xiaomei (2016). "Singing "The Internationale"". In Rojas, Carlos; Bachner, Andrea (eds.). The Oxford Handbook of Modern Chinese Literatures. Oxford University Press. ISBN 9780199383313.
  • McGuire, Elizabeth (2018). "School dramas". Red at Heart: How Chinese Communists Fell in Love with the Russian Revolution. Oxford University Press. ISBN 9780190640552.
  • Mittler, Barbara (1997). "Development 'How new is China's New Music?'". Dangerous Tunes: The Politics of Chinese Music in Hong Kong, Taiwan, and the People's Republic of China Since 1949. Opera sinologica. Vol. 3. Otto Harrassowitz Verlag. ISBN 9783447039208. ISSN 0949-7927.
  • Bohlman, Andrea (2020). "Protest". Musical Solidarities: Political Action and Music in Late Twentieth-Century Poland. The New Cultural History of Music Series. Oxford University Press. ISBN 9780190938284.
  • Titus, Joan (2016). The Early Film Music of Dmitry Shostakovich. Oxford University Press. ISBN 9780199315147.
  • Maisky, Ivan Mikhailovich (2015). Gorodetsky, Gabriel (ed.). The Maisky Diaries: Red Ambassador to the Court of St James's, 1932–1943. Translated by Sorokina, Tatiana; Ready, Oliver. Yale University Press. ISBN 9780300180671.
  • Miner, Steven Merritt (2003). Stalin's Holy War: Religion, Nationalism, and Alliance Politics, 1941–1945. University of North Carolina Press. ISBN 9780807827369.
  • Addison, Paul (1975). The Road to 1945: British Politics and the Second World War. Jonathan Cape. ISBN 9780224011594.
  • Hermiston, Roger (2016). All Behind You, Winston: Churchill's Great Coalition 1940–45. Aurum. ISBN 9781781314845.

Further reading

External links

I doubt that Shocking Blue did a cover version, Doktoro. Uncle G (talk) 06:49, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

I like my talk today (even explaining how it works), and managed to picture two more vacation days --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:37, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Today, I decorated my talk with a Bach cantata. I heard it last year when missing RexxS began, and "not letting go" was a theme. - Thank you for keeping his memory on top. I haven't counting how often I sen users there who haven't learned indenting. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 17:29, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

my joy, thanks for coming over - more on my talk, RexxS pictured twice --Gerda Arendt (talk) 16:50, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Valentine's Day edition, with spring flowers and plenty of music --Gerda Arendt (talk) 19:09, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

Administrators' newsletter – February 2022

News and updates for administrators from the past month (January 2022).

Administrator changes

removed AustralianRupert • Cimon Avaro • Euryalus • Jehochman • Nunh-huh
readded 28bytes

Bureaucrat changes

readded 28bytes

Interface administrator changes

readded Evad37 • Galobtter
removed Ragesoss

Guideline and policy news

Technical news

  • The user group oversight will be renamed suppress in around 3 weeks. This will not affect the name shown to users and is simply a change in the technical name of the user group. The change is being made for technical reasons. You can comment in Phabricator if you have objections.
  • The Reply Tool feature, which is a part of Discussion Tools, will be opt-out for everyone logged in or logged out starting 7 February 2022. Editors wishing to comment on this can do so in the relevant Village Pump discussion.

Arbitration

Miscellaneous

Sent by MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 03:01, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Dispute notification

Did you know … that while accounts of the Toho actors' union strikes  in the 1940s describe a "cry-in" including several prominent actresses, the women involved stated that they do not recall crying?

Following Setsuko Wakayama , Chieko Nakagita, Yoshiko Kuga, and others "putting on a crying act" came "a cluster of unfurled red flags with everyone singing The Internationale", Donald Richie is quoted by others as saying, Doktoro. But Shirota Takako and Ishikawa Masako did not remember it that way.

  1. Anderson & Richie 2018, p. 171.
  2. Gerteis 2009, p. 45.
  • Anderson, Joseph L.; Richie, Donald (2018). "New Sequence". The Japanese Film: Art and Industry - Expanded Edition. Princeton University Press. ISBN 9780691187464.
  • Gerteis, Christopher (2009). "The Erotic and the Vulgar". Gender Struggles: Wage-earning Women and Male-dominated Unions in Postwar Japan. Harvard East Asian monographs. Vol. 321. Harvard University Press. ISBN 9780674035690. ISSN 0073-0483.

Uncle G (talk) 13:39, 3 February 2022 (UTC)

Héloïse

The answer to your question is "No!", Doktoro. I've just read Newman 2014 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFNewman2014 (help) and that is not the thesis actually put forward in the source. Nor is it supportable from Luscombe & Radice 2013 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFLuscombeRadice2013 (help) which Newman was reviewing, which rather supports something a lot more interesting on page lxxxviii.

Furthermore, page lxxxix goes on to connect the dots via The Golden Girls to Mr. T, of 'I pity the fool' fame, whom you were mentioning the other day for some reason at Talk:Prise d'Orange, and his Rocky MCCCXCII. You should turn your English Professor Vacuum on, because someone who has actually read Luscombe and Radice's book could connect the dots in our article and source some of these pop culture references in it, too. Our article is currently based only upon a review of said book by Barbara Newman, is based upon it badly, and has no sources for these pop culture things at all.

Uncle G (talk) 07:52, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

A little bit of reading reveals what I expected, that Newman isn't the only one to have a thesis about Héloïse and marriage. Our article, however, represents that even less well than it represents Newman taken alone. I did in fact find one person talking about the "free love" that you rejected, Doktoro. It was Étienne Gilson, but (a) xe was writing in 1960, (b) xe wasn't really talking about free love, and (c) the 1970s have happened since then, as Newman 2014 harvnb error: no target: CITEREFNewman2014 (help) notes, and the mainstream interpretation is a little different nowadays.

I did think up a cunning plan. I am tempted to leave out any mention of "Beasts of England; Beasts of Ireland" in Orwell's Animal Farm as the well-documented allusion to The Internationale that it is. This should make every English Professor on the planet grind xyr teeth in frustration and mutter "How can you leave that out, Misplaced Pages!" under xyr breath, and we can locate them with a carefully placed array of microphones and some judicious triangulation.

What do you think of this plan?

Uncle G (talk) 10:25, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Alpha Kappa Alpha

You may want to reprotect the page, after it is changed back to Hedgeman. I'm in the middle of an WP:RM discussion over at Ethel Hedgeman Lyle. I'm proposing the change, and honestly until the page and AKA National agree, we'll get SPAs making the change to the end of time. You may even want to direct them to Talk:Ethel_Hedgeman_Lyle#Requested_move_4_February_2022 .Naraht (talk) 18:36, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Sock

Hi, Drmies, thanks for blocking H2rty. I've blocked their sock TB99999 (privately confirmed by Doug Weller). Bishonen | tålk 21:01, 5 February 2022 (UTC).

@Bishonen: Far be it from me to question Doug Weller or your interpretative skills, but that looks like highly dubious to me. Doug? Unless you or Doug strongly object, I think it would be prudent to lose the sock tags. (In fact I have a suspicion who this might be, but that's another story). -- zzuuzz 21:24, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
@Zzuuzz: please double check me then to see what I’ve missed. It’s possible I did. Doug Weller talk 21:27, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
You guys duke it out, please. I'm going to bed. Bishonen | tålk 21:34, 5 February 2022 (UTC).
I got it wrong, shouldn’t cu when I’m tired. Doug Weller talk 21:53, 5 February 2022 (UTC)
Natti natti, Bishonen! Drmies (talk) 23:11, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Aiv report

If you have a second, can you look into this report. Thanx, - FlightTime (open channel) 23:08, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

No prob. Cheers, - FlightTime (open channel) 23:13, 5 February 2022 (UTC)

Hello

I'm 애국심 존중. Please Add Block Template User:Xoghks And Socks of Xoghks. 💻HACKER (talk) 04:01, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Sockpupperties

Don't know why you're casting shade on their English language skills, that's a great word, I might start using it. Girth Summit (blether) 08:19, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

Since it involves an English professor from Far Far Away, Doktoro, I have deposited a gift of socks and ties and despair with M. Around The Mountain. Uncle G (talk) 09:40, 11 February 2022 (UTC)

Your input

I noticed you've added a lot of comments at WP:BLPN. Could I get your opinion at Talk:Killing of Amir Locke#WP:BLP? This is the young man shot by police in Minneapolis last week. It seems police were looking for one of his relatives, who was arrested today and charged with murder. When Amir Lock was shot, he was in the apartment of another relative with a history of violence against police. Can some of these relatives be named? For example, Mekhi Camden Speed, and Marlon Speed? Thanks. Magnolia677 (talk) 18:01, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

A load of …

The professors of the last 40 years are not on your side, Doktoro. Victor Bers of Yale said not to even bother with Bulfinch's Mythology.

Uncle G (talk) 23:11, 8 February 2022 (UTC)

  • Maybe Victor B. can explain what a "literary version" is; I still have no idea, and I've read that sentence a few times already. Besides, in my book literary versions are full of gratuitous sex and violence--otherwise, what's the point of an English PhD? BTW I'm kind of pissed at Bulfinch, for reasons I'll explain in a few weeks in a seminar on Race and the Middle Ages. Drmies (talk) 03:34, 9 February 2022 (UTC)
    • I did actually find an edition that used those very words as its blurb. I'd already discounted it as a good source for anything, based upon its provenance, before reading the blurb, however. ☺ There's more explanation to be had about the style and target readership from the sources now in the article, on the other hand, and I think that I know what the Misplaced Pages editor all those years ago (Special:Diff/3120862 — Look at that low number!) was reaching for.

      In the meantime, though, Doktoro, you could do two things for me:

    • Uncle G (talk) 23:12, 9 February 2022 (UTC)

Prise de livres

I got Bennett and Newth today from Robarts Library. Neither fantastic. Bennett lists four editions of Prise, which were already or are now incorporated, and then provides an opinionated (but, in my estimation, not comprehensive) survey of the secondary literature. Newth is heavy on translation, light on critical commentary. I might read his translation for my own edification, but it will not be useful for our purposes. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 04:46, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

  • Ha, AleatoryPonderings, what a coincidence--I just got my copy of Ferrante in yesterday and have been working through the introductory material--god what a fascinating set of material, and I was unfamiliar with so much of it. When I get through that, and I have some more time, I'll report back, and maybe help you get this up to FA status. Take care, and thanks for the update, Drmies (talk) 17:39, 10 February 2022 (UTC)
    I hadn't been looking for Guillaume d'Orange : ou la naissance du héros médiéval, but picked it up anyway, and have found it by far the most interesting and useful. My plan is to incorporate some of it over the next few weeks, my weak French permitting.
    The only big hole in coverage I've noticed is an account of the manuscripts and how the current text has been pieced together. Régnier covers that in his introduction to La Prise d'Orange : chanson de geste de la fin du XIIe siecle but when I was doing my initial expansion I found that part very dull and didn't want to deal with it. But a comprehensive article should probably cover that.
    I am also thinking there is too little discussion of Orable (Guibourc). I was thinking of bluelinking that and adding the key points back to Prise d'Orange.
    No rush on anything—this 1000-year old poem need not yield a featured article in the near term (or at all). And this would be my first FAC under this account so I don't want to rush into anything. AleatoryPonderings (???) (!!!) 19:29, 10 February 2022 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for February 12

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Marianne Timmer, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page Nagano.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 05:57, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

In popular culture

Minor planet 5637 was discovered by C. S. Shoemaker and E. M. Shoemaker in 1988 and named for this companion of Aeneas.

R. C. Lehmann observed that he commiserated with "a brother coach" and also pitied his oarsmen.

Professor of classics at the University of Michigan David Ross characterized the description of the Chimaera as "decidedly odd", seeming to be "an aircraft carrier, racing against destroyers", and notes that its captain is the only one of the four not to be directly connected to a later gens. The link to Gegania gens was later made by Maurus Servius Honoratus.

The swimming ability of "old man" Menoetes to swim to shore fully clothed, and without the assistance of a magical veil, contrasts with Odysseus's swim to shore and avoidance of the sort of rocks at Phaeacia that Menoetes clambered up onto unaided.

Through the word "clavus" meaning both tiller and club, the "huge" namesake in 10.317–322 who lays his foes low with a club that belongs to Hercules is linked by scholars to the ship's captain.

Edwin Arlington Robinson's sonnet titled "Menoetes", first published in the Harvard Advocate of 1892-03-15, is based upon this incident. It begins:

Who is this fellow floundering in the wave
Flung from the Trojan galley thundering by?

Joseph Addison wrote in issue 279 of The Spectator that "Sentiments which raise laughter can very seldom be admitted with any decency into an heroic poem I remember but one laugh in the whole Aeneid, which rises in the fifth book upon Menoetes, where he is represented as thrown overboard, and drying himself upon a rock.". David Ross observed that it is, however, "the laughter of mockery and derision". Professor of Latin at University College London M. M. Willcock concurred that it is "insensitive" and that "o laugh at the unmerited misfortune of another human being is not the highest moral reaction", observing that Menoetes had done nothing deserving of such a reaction from spectators. Addison's recollection notwithstanding, a second instance of the same mocking laughter occurs when Sergestus brings his boat in.

References

  1. Schmadel 2013, p. 719.
  2. Lehmann 2010, p. 10. sfn error: no target: CITEREFLehmann2010 (help)
  3. ^ Ross 2008, p. 97.
  4. Fratantuono & Smith 2015, p. 221.
  5. McManamon 2021, pp. 44–45.
  6. Lowe 2015, pp. 205–206.
  7. Gale 2006, p. 128.
  8. ^ Robinson 1975, p. 172.
  9. Harper & Miller 1892, p. 267.
  10. Haan 2005, p. 101.
  11. WillCock 1988, p. 10. sfn error: no target: CITEREFWillCock1988 (help)
  12. Willcock 1988, p. 10.

Bibliography

  • Schmadel, Lutz D. (2013). Dictionary of Minor Planet Names (3rd ed.). Springer Science + Business Media. doi:10.1007/978-3-540-29925-7_5342. ISBN 9783662066157.
  • Lehmann, R. C. (2016). The Classic Guide to Rowing (reprint ed.). Amberley Publishing Limited. ISBN 9781445649078.
  • Ross, David O. (2008). "Virgil's Troy". Virgil's Aeneid: A Reader's Guide. John Wiley & Sons. ISBN 9780470777312.
  • McManamon, John M. (2021). "Neither Letters nor Swimming": The Rebirth of Swimming and Free-diving. Brill's Studies in Maritime History. BRILL. ISBN 9789004446199.
  • Lowe, Dunstan (2015). Monsters and Monstrosity in Augustan Poetry. University of Michigan Press. ISBN 9780472119516.
  • Fratantuono, Lee M.; Smith, R. Alden (2015). "Commentary". Virgil, Aeneid 5: Text, Translation and Commentary. BRILL. ISBN 9789004301283.
  • Gale, Robert L. (2006). "Meonoetes". An Edwin Arlington Robinson Encyclopedia. McFarland & Company. ISBN 9780786422371.
  • Robinson, Edwin Arlington (1975). Cary, Richard (ed.). Uncollected Poems and Prose of Edwin Arlington Robinson. Colby College Press. ISBN 9780910394130.
  • Harper, William Rainey; Miller, Frank Justus, eds. (1892). "Book V". Six books of the Aeneid of Vergil. American Book Company.
  • Haan, Estelle (2005). Vergilius Redivivus: Studies in Joseph Addison's Latin Poetry. Transactions of the American Philosophical Society. Vol. 95. American Philosophical Society. ISBN 9780871699527. ISSN 0065-9746.
  • Willcock, M. M. (1988). "Homer's Chariot Race and Virgil's Boat Race". In Huxley, Herbert H. (ed.). Proceedings of the Virgil Society (PDF). Vol. 19.

Further reading

  • Salisbury, R. A. (1812-03-03). "On the cultivation of rare plants, especially such as have been introduced since the death of Mr Philip Miller". Transactions of the Horticultural Society of London. 1. Horticultural Society of London: 299–300.
  • Sorscher, Hannah (2021-01-08). "Filial Piety and Menoetes' Fall in Aeneid 5". 2021 Annual Meeting of the Society for Classical Studies.

Lurkers: Doktoro needs to be told about plants. Uncle G (talk) 18:18, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

  • I don't know how you find this, and write it up so quickly, formatted and all. Were you not making breakfast, watching Olympics, and doing laundry at the same time? Drmies (talk) 18:35, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Of course, we all know that the way to write popular culture sections is to watch television. So after scouring an episode of Hudson and Rex I found another pop culture reference for you, Doktoro. Uncle G (talk) 20:31, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

Swimming to skool

The flag of Napoleon's Roman Republic (18th century) ties het boot race neatly in with User talk:Girth Summit#Sockpupperties. It all connects, Doktoro.

I also hear that het Gallifreyan students race boots, Doktoro, and didn't choose Enki, who had an article. I think that this should be your Did you know fact.

Now Zaphod Gearbox might have been able to fix your bike. Uncle G (talk) 05:30, 14 February 2022 (UTC)

Norm Macdonald

I've seen that edit going back and forth for a while, and although it's sourced, per WP:DAILYBEAST shouldn't we not be using it for BLP/Recently decesased? ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 20:08, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

ANI2 question

(for all watchers) - Unless I've gone mad, plot summaries should have at least one source, no? Primary is fine for this, no? Someone's trying to edit war over a tag This Is Spinal Tap. If I'm wrong, and we don't need sources, hey, great, please show me the policy so I can bone up. I've tried leaving a polite message on their talk page, but this is one stubborn "newbee" (who isn't...). Dennis Brown - 2¢ 21:03, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

I think it's assumed the work itself is the source. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:06, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
I'm struggling with that. They are already at 3RR, btw. Normally you want some source for all content, otherwise, you fail WP:V. I mean, I could put in the summary for A Fish Called Wanda in that article and no one could challenge it if WP:V didn't apply. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 21:08, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
Misplaced Pages:Manual_of_Style/Film#Plot is where I read that. It's not great, and in general I think plots should be a few sentences at most, but the article on Masters of the Universe is longer than the article on WW2, and I think my AfD on He-Man's sword is going to fail. Apparently that's just where we are as an encyclopedia. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:12, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
"basic descriptions of their plots are acceptable without reference to an outside source". This seems to contradict WP:V completely. I mean, again, if I say the movie was about something else, how can that be challenged? You can insert completely absurd information, particularly with older or obscure works and it easily filled with lies if you don't apply WP:V. I also take "basic descriptions" to be much less than this, ie: "A mockumentary about a British heavy metal band". That is a basic description. Dennis Brown - 2¢ 21:17, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
Well, the WP:V part is basically just citing the movie itself as a source. Like any other source, you need to have access to it in order to verify what's written. Provided the film is publicly available, citing the film explicitly in the plot summary's section is not necessary, since the film is the primary source and the infobox provides details about the film. Secondary sources must be used for all other cases, such as upcoming films (including those that had sneak previews and only played at film festivals) and lost films, as these would not be considered generally available or verifiable. This does lead to difficulty in verifying if you don't want to watch an entire movie to get an idea of the plot. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 21:23, 15 February 2022 (UTC)
I source my plot summaries... But yes, no source required, officially. But that's yet another reason to write them carefully and economically. See this and the previous two edits: character descriptions are also deemed (erroneously, IMO) to be fair game, and many of them, esp. in anime and children's TV shows, verge into OR and analysis. So yes, I'm totally on board with the "basic description" you propose. Drmies (talk) 22:02, 15 February 2022 (UTC)

Board info

Hello Drmies :) New to Misplaced Pages, thanks for your patience. Was trying to add two new board members to the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library page. I am a team member of of the Theodore Roosevelt Presidential Library which I am declaring/understand is a conflict of interest. Hoping you can review my edits and publish. Thank you!

User talk:Drmies: Difference between revisions Add topic