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Discretionary Sanctions Notification - Eastern Europe

This is a standard message to notify contributors about an administrative ruling in effect. It does not imply that there are any issues with your contributions to date.

You have recently shown interest in Eastern Europe. Due to past disruption in this topic area, a more stringent set of rules called discretionary sanctions is in effect: any administrator may impose sanctions on editors who do not strictly follow Misplaced Pages's policies, or any page-specific restrictions, when making edits related to the topic.

For additional information, please see the guidance on discretionary sanctions and the Arbitration Committee's decision here. If you have any questions, or any doubts regarding what edits are appropriate, you are welcome to discuss them with me or any other editor.

Due solely to the volume of content you've added to Moscow–Constantinople schism (2018) I'm informing you of these rules; I haven't reviewed your edits on that page. power~enwiki (π, ν) 02:25, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

Moscow–Constantinople schism

Your recent editing of Moscow–Constantinople schism (2018) does not appear to be in conformity with our guidelines regarding neutrality and POV editing. See WP:NPOV. Specifically you have introduced large quantities of material cited solely or primarily to sources affiliated with the Ecumenical Patriarchate and two churches regarded as schismatic by all of the other canonical Orthodox churches. And then represented the claims made therein in a manner suggesting they are settled facts. The wording of many of your edits also suggests you are promoting one side of this conflict. POV or WP:AGENDA oriented editing is not allowed. Please be more careful in your future editing so as to ensure that all sides of the disagreement are fairly represented and that we do not give undue weight to affiliated and/or biased sources. Thank you for your contributions to the project. -Ad Orientem (talk) 02:37, 29 October 2018 (UTC)

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File:Logo of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America.jpg

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Granting of autocephaly.

Since you have breached WP:3RR, I suggest that you set out your case in the talk page. I opened a new topic at 2RR.Laurel Lodged (talk) 15:23, 6 January 2019 (UTC)

Merry Christmas

Today is Christ’s birthday (according to the Julian calendar)! May God bless you and your family on this joyous day!--Nicoljaus (talk) 12:08, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

@Nicoljaus:Thank you for your kind words! Merry Christmas to you too! I hope you will have a good year and that fortune will be clement with you. Veverve (talk) 17:14, 7 January 2019 (UTC)

Well, I can only repeat last year’s wishes!--Nicoljaus (talk) 01:29, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

@Nicoljaus: Well, like last year, thanks a lot! Veverve (talk) 09:00, 7 January 2020 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Writer's Barnstar
	For your creation of and hard work on Reactions of the Orthodox churches to the 2018 Moscow–Constantinople schism. Cheers! Calthinus (talk) 16:08, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

@Calthinus: (I now see in December that I completly forgot to ping you back in January) Thanks a lot! I did not expect to get it for this article, given that it is Autocephaly of the Orthodox Church of Ukraine which made it Template:In the news recently. Thanks again! Veverve (talk) 17:43, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

Religion in Ukraine

Hi, if you have time, can you check recent edits to the above article. I don't know much about the subject. Thanks. Denisarona (talk) 16:13, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

@Denisarona: Done. Feel free to ask me if you need another check. Veverve (talk) 17:37, 12 January 2019 (UTC)

A beer for you!

Many thanks for your help. Enjoy!! Denisarona (talk) 11:16, 13 January 2019 (UTC)

Patriarchal Exarchate in South-East Asia

Please, don't do such reverts. Archdiocese of Russian Orthodox churches in Western Europe has never had parishes in South-East Asia. By the way his surname in Chashin (Чашин), but not Chasin (Часин). ~ Чръный человек (talk) 13:54, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Hello.

First, the background is a recap of the situation. I agree the AROCWE never had churches in SE Asia, but it still happened shortly before the PESEA was created and I thought it was a good idea to talk about it. Moreover, the background you put before to replace mine had no reference whatsoever. I agree that the current "Background" section fits the article better (especially since you put references this time).

Second, the title of primacy of the primate of the Patriarchal Exarchate in South-East Asia is "Archbishop of Singapore and South-East Asia",(https://mospat.ru/en/2018/12/28/news168464/) it is not "Metropolitan of Singapore and South-East Asia". That Sergius was elevated to a the rank of Metropolitan does not change that the title of the primate (i.e. regardless if it is Sergius) is "Archbishop of Singapore and South-East Asia" Veverve (talk) 14:58, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

The fact is that for a long time the Russian Orthodox Church did not create any structures on the territory of South-East Asia. This was done in order not to aggravate relations with the "Ecumenical" Patriarchate of Constantinople, which claims control over the entire Orthodox Diaspora. However, after the latter's invasion of Ukraine, Russian Orthodox Church broke of Eucharistic communication with Constantinople, and decided that it is free from any previous agreements with Constantinople. For this reason, 2 patriarchal exarchates were created now, but not earlier. ~ Чръный человек (talk) 15:59, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

On 26 Feburary 2019 the Internal regulation of the Patriarchal Exarchate of South-East Asia was adopted: "The supreme ecclesiastical authority in the Exarchate belongs to the Synod of the Patriarchal Exarchate in Southeast Asia (hereinafter referred to as the “Synod of the Exarchate”), headed by the Metropolitan of Singapore and Southeast Asia, the Patriarchal Exarch of South-East Asia (hereinafter “Exarch”), and consisting of diocesan bishops of the dioceses of the Exarchate. The vicar bishop of the Diocese of the Exarchate may, at the invitation of the Exarch, participate in the meeting of the Synod with the right of an advisory vote" (original, translation). ~ Чръный человек (talk) 16:10, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

You are right, I will change what has to be changed. Veverve (talk) 16:22, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

@Чръный человек: Done. Thanks for your great help! Veverve (talk) 17:19, 3 March 2019 (UTC)

Maybe it will be useful for you: "Мы всегда с уважением относились к Константинопольскому патриархату и закрывали глаза на его претензии на попечение над всеми православными диаспорами, - сказал отец Александр. - Но теперь этот подход имеет мало общего с действительностью, уже нет никаких оснований Константинопольскому патриархату считать себя правомочным брать под свое духовное покровительство вообще всю диаспору, как в Западной Европе, так и в других частях мира. Теперь приняты новые решения о том, как будет окормляться русскоязычная паства и те люди, которые относят себя к членам Русской православной церкви. Церковная жизнь для русских общин в Западной Европе теперь будет развиваться по другому руслу." (We have always respected the Patriarchate of Constantinople and turned a blind eye to its claims to the custody of all Orthodox diasporas, " father Alexander said. "- But now this approach has little in common with reality, there is no reason for the Patriarchate of Constantinople to consider itself competent to take under its spiritual protection the entire Diaspora, both in Western Europe and in other parts of the world. Now new decisions have been made on how the Russian-speaking flock and those people who consider themselves members of the Russian Orthodox Church will be pastoraly cared. Church life for Russian communities in Western Europe will now develop in a different direction.) ~ Чръный человек (talk) 10:31, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

I have now added a small section about this in the articles of the PESEA, the DROCSP and the PEWE. Veverve (talk) 11:00, 4 March 2019 (UTC)

Plese improve my articles

Eugene (Reshetnikov) and Elisey (Ganaba) ~ Чръный человек (talk) 12:30, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

Done! Next, could you translate those articles: 1, 2, 3? Veverve (talk) 14:46, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

• "Bishop of Bogorodsk, the vicar of the Diocese of Chersonesus" those are not the same offices, was he appointed at both?
  Vicar of the Diocese of Chersonesus is office; Bishop of Bogorodsk is title. Vicar Bishop must have a title. ~ Чръный человек (talk) 20:00, 30 April 2019 (UTC)

See Patriarchal parishes in Italy, Diocese of Singapore (Russian Orthodox Church) and Diocese of Thailand. ~ Чръный человек (talk) 08:36, 14 June 2019 (UTC)

Category:Honorary citizens of Seoul has been nominated for discussion

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Category:Koukoulion has been nominated for discussion

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Gregory (Korobeynikov)

Hello Veverve, per our last discussion, here is the lattest article I've been working on which involves the Orthodox Church in Russia, which you can find at User:Inter&anthro/Gregory (Korobeynikov). Before moving it to the main space I wanted to make sure that the information in the article is complete and up-to-date as you had told me. From what I can tell the Old Beliver Orthodox Church has a simplier organization than the Russian Orthodox Church, so the article might be easier to review and add to. Thank you Inter&anthro (talk) 18:13, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

@Inter&anthro: my corrections are done. Next time, please include a link to the original Russian article in your message. Veverve (talk) 18:53, 7 November 2019 (UTC)

Grammar

Dear Veverve, sorry to bother you with this, but this appears to be a recurring problem as evidenced by my most recent edits. I wonder what your mother tongue is, though it is none of my business, strictly speaking. The actual problem is that the way you edit often defies the rules of the English language. Apart from that, we are not here to chronicle each statement by this or that official, etc. This is an encyclopedia that seeks to explain things (events) that are of enduring notability in a way that makes sense and is comprehensible to a layperson; ″Misplaced Pages is also not written in news style". Regards, Axxxion (talk) 15:47, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

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Siluyan (Kilin) & Eumenius (Mikheyev)

As with last time the drafts I've been working on can be found here and here. The Russian language articles can be found at Siluyan (Kilin)  and Eumenius (Mikheyev). Thank you for your work, feel free to look over the two drafts at your own pace and add what ever I missed from the Russian language counter parts. Inter&anthro (talk) 22:46, 20 November 2019 (UTC)

@Inter&anthro: I am working on it! Do not forget to put a Template:Translated page on the talk page of the article when your article is a translation. Veverve (talk) 17:23, 21 November 2019 (UTC)

Have you finished editing the drafts? I noticed you haven't edited them much in the past few days. Inter&anthro (talk) 00:43, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

@Inter&anthro:Ah, sorry! I had kind of forgotten about those pages as I have been busy lately on Misplaced Pages and various sister projects. I will finish your pages during this week-end. By the way, do you use WP:CXT (cf. WP:HOWTRANS)? Veverve (talk) 01:05, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

No I haven't heard of it yet, but I will look into it, thanks for letting me know. Inter&anthro (talk) 02:03, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

@Inter&anthro:

Draft:Siluyan (Kilin): done. I have to congratulate you since your article is more complete and referenced that the Russian one.

Draft:Eumenius (Mikheyev): done. Veverve (talk) 21:50, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

@Inter&anthro:Do not forget to add the version= for Template:Translated page. Veverve (talk) 22:54, 29 November 2019 (UTC)

@Inter&anthro: also, try to remember to put a WP:SHORTDESC with Template:Short description whenever you create an article. Veverve (talk) 02:58, 16 December 2019 (UTC)

"Opinion of the Catholic Church on the Vulgate"

I still continue to think that this section should be shortened and renamed into something like "Opinion of the Catholic Church on the Vulgate"

There has been a lot of too and fro here, but so far editor Calicem has been unable to substantiate his speculations from any notable recent scholarship

So I am inclined to propose scrubbing the section on the Inerrancy of the Vulgate; and replacing it as you suggested. TomHennell (talk) 12:21, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

Well, @TomHennell: I agree with your agreement. Veverve (talk) 12:37, 22 November 2019 (UTC)

talk page

Please discuss rather than reverting, at the discussion I opened on Talk:Eastern Orthodox Church. You're miscounting. That's why the other editor reverted herself. Elizium23 (talk) 21:04, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

December 2019

Notice of noticeboard discussion

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.
Due to your disruptive behavior, I requested a ban for you: here.--UkrainianSavior1 (talk) 00:00, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

@UkrainianSavior1:The link provided links to my request for you to be banned. Veverve (talk) 00:05, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

@Veverve:And likewise, I have provided the same in turn. UkrainianSavior1 (talk) 00:07, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Incomplete DYK nomination

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DYK nomination of Epiphanius I of Ukraine

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@BlueMoonset: sorry, after asking and seeing my DYK did not meet the criteria, I forgot to ask for deletion. Thanks for reminding me.

Mar Thoma Syrian Church

Hello Veverve. I notice you've been recently active on this page, so may know something about the disputes there. Can you understand why some editors want to label this church as protestant? This seems to be an unusual claim, if the church itself does not make this statement. Thanks, EdJohnston (talk) 18:10, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

@EdJohnston: I am active only because this page is on my watchlist and there is an ongoing dispute. I tried to make the two main parties discuss, but they seem unwilling to discuss. Sadly, I do not know much about this specific church, so I cannot give you any insight or untie the Gordian knot. Veverve (talk) 18:43, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

@EdJohnston: No, they really don't. Maybe an arbitration would fix this months long problem. Veverve (talk) 22:34, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

@EdJohnston: Firstly, I didn't say they're fully nor Western Christian-like St. Thomas Christian denomination. As I saw, based on the page's history is strongly implying they wanted to be somewhere as Semi-Eastern Christian with Protestant elements, as a way to compromise with its Colonial invaders and its Catholic/Protestant missionaries.

For you Veverve, that problem that I really wanted to discuss with that user, in my thought, but I feel psychologically and neurologically can't do that, like what wording to replying user back for a example; if that user is mostly makes that more bad English grammar. Or even if I could did replying the user, that user will make probably going on silence like I and he trying going into the user's talk page, and still continuously undoing by previous edit. Chad The Goatman (talk) 23:06, 29 January 2020 (UTC)

Edit conflict

Um, @Veverve:, I've spent considerable time copyediting the section you started working on (as you requested). I'm going to move on to something else; let me know when you're finished. Miniapolis 15:17, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

@Miniapolis: I am really sorry! I thought you had finished the section, hence why I started correcting factual errors you had introduced by copy editing. You can start the copy editing process again. I will correct once the article is completly copy edited. Sorry again! Veverve (talk) 15:46, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

@Veverve:, I copyedit in as small sections as possible precisely to avoid edit conflicts and am pretty sure I maintained text-source integrity in my edits. Since you reverted work I put a lot of time into, and I would have to start that section all over again, it looks like you need another copyeditor. I'll make a notation at WP:GOCE/REQ of where I left off. Miniapolis 16:38, 8 February 2020 (UTC)

Vulgata Sixtina

Hello:

The copy edit you requested from the Guild of Copy Editors of the article Vulgata Sixtina has been completed.

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

Best of luck with the GAN.

Regards,

Twofingered Typist (talk) 15:08, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

@Twofingered Typist: thanks a lot! I will allow myself to change a few things in the article, I really hope it does not bother you. I appreciate your work and do not want to disrespect what you accomplished. Veverve (talk) 16:12, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

@Veverve: You're welcome. Feel free to change what you wish. Twofingered Typist (talk) 19:08, 9 February 2020 (UTC)

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Sixto-Clementine Vulgate

Hello, Veverve. This is a courtesy notice that the copy edit you requested for Sixto-Clementine Vulgate at the Guild of Copy Editors requests page is now complete. All feedback welcome! Cheers, Baffle☿gab 03:17, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

Moscow–Constantinople schism edit revert

Why did you revert my edit? The content as it stands is grammatically incorrect.St Judas the Lazarene (talk) 07:05, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

@St Judas the Lazarene:Adding a line break in the middle of a sentence does not fix it. You probably made atypo mistake. Veverve (talk) 11:11, 15 February 2020 (UTC)

Oh, did I do that? Sorry, my bad. FYI, 'announce' is a verb only. The noun is 'announcement', but in this situation 'statement' would be the typical word to use in English. --St Judas the Lazarene (talk) 09:13, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

@St Judas the Lazarene: yes, you did. Feel free to correct again, but this time without introducing a superfluous line break :) Veverve (talk) 15:19, 16 February 2020 (UTC)

Nova Vulgata copy edit

Hi - just to let you know I've accepted your request at WP:GOCE/REQ to copy edit Nova Vulgata. Please don't hesitate to get in touch if you have any questions or comments on the process or copy editing choices. I'll let you know if I have any questions too. Regards - FiveFaintFootprints (talk) 23:37, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

@FiveFaintFootprints: thanks for accepting my request and warning me! If you could, could you reduce the number of quotes in the article by paraphrasing them? Veverve (talk) 23:54, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

One's already done! Thanks - I'll keep working on those, then. Regards - FiveFaintFootprints (talk) 23:58, 17 February 2020 (UTC)

Hello, Veverve. This is a courtesy notice that the copy edit you requested for Nova Vulgata at the Guild of Copy Editors requests page is now complete. All feedback welcome! FiveFaintFootprints (talk) 00:07, 20 February 2020 (UTC)

I need you review

I have created two vast artivles in ruwiki and tranferred to enwiki by tranlsation: Joining of the Archdiocese of Russian Orthodox churches in Western Europe to the Moscow Patriarchate and Orthodox International Youth Festival "Bratya". ~ Чръный человек (talk) 13:02, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

@Чръный человек: Archdiocese_of_Russian_Orthodox_churches_in_Western_Europe#Disbandment_by_the_Ecumenical_Patriarchate_and_aftermath really needs to be merged with Joining of the Archdiocese of Russian Orthodox churches in Western Europe to the Moscow Patriarchate. Veverve (talk) 15:48, 27 February 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for your work. ~ Чръный человек (talk) 12:53, 28 February 2020 (UTC)

@Чръный человек:could you either try to correct first Orthodox International Youth Festival "Bratya" by yourself or request copy editing or both? By the way, if you request copy editing do not edit while the copy editor is working on the article. Veverve (talk) 17:12, 8 March 2020 (UTC)

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Incomplete DYK nomination

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Reply from JasonWikis

Hey you asked me about my Confraternity Bible...

I don't believe I own that particular volume anymore, however I do have other Confraternity bible's like it. I could take pictures of them if you'd like me to. Sorry for taking a little while to get back to you.Jason WikiP (talk) 17:19, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

@JasonWikis: Thank you for replying, it is not a problem whatever time it took you. Yes, I think it would be good to take a picture of them; more precisely, if you could take a picture of a cover to illustrate the article, that would greatly improve the article.

Also, I asked you if you had taken any other picture and uploaded them to WP or Commons.

Veverve (talk) 20:06, 14 March 2020 (UTC)

Your GA nomination of Sixtine Vulgate

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Incomplete DYK nomination

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DYK nomination of Bible translations into Geʽez

Hello! Your submission of Bible translations into Geʽez at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! — Fourthords | =Λ= | 18:08, 16 March 2020 (UTC)

Vulgate

Hello:

The copy edit you requested from the Guild of Copy Editors of the article Vulgate has been completed.

Please let me know if you have any questions or concerns.

I add a "Citation needed" tag in the Manuscripts and early editions section to a sentence at the end of the second paragraph which made no sense to me. Another editor has tagged the Contents section for having no citations. I'll just add that there are many, many other sections and even quotations that lack adequate citations. Much work remains to be done in this area.

Best of luck with the article moving forward.

Twofingered Typist (talk) 18:25, 19 March 2020 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Oxford Vulgate

Hello! Your submission of Oxford Vulgate at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! BlueMoonset (talk) 00:30, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Note that the same is true of your Benedictine Vulgate nomination: neither is eligible because of the large volume of material copied to each from the pre-existing Vulgate article.. BlueMoonset (talk) 00:30, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

DYK nomination of Bible translations into Geʽez

Hello! Your submission of Bible translations into Geʽez at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) underneath your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! Yoninah (talk) 16:47, 16 April 2020 (UTC)

Category:Vetus Latina has been nominated for merging

Category:Vetus Latina, which you created, has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 19:39, 21 April 2020 (UTC)

Theodore (Kazanov) & Tikhon (Zaitsev)

Hello Veverve, if you have free time feel free to edit Draft:Theodore (Kazanov) and Draft:Tikhon (Zaitsev), these are drafts I started back in November but unfortunately I've procrastinated on finishing them and moving them to the article main space. The former especially needs some work. The Russian language articles can be found at ru:Феодор (Казанов) and ru:Тихон (Зайцев) respectively. If you don't have free time don't worry, I'll try to get some work done on these two as well. Inter&anthro (talk) 01:35, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

@Inter&anthro: Both have the exact same infos in their "Eastern Orthodox Church titles" templates, could you fix this? Veverve (talk) 09:26, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Sorry about that, I think when I started the draft on Theodore (Kazanov) I had just copied and pasted from Tikhon (Zaitsev) and forgot to change that aspect. I've just re-edited it and the information in Theodore (Kazanov) should now be correct. Inter&anthro (talk) 15:02, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

@Veverve: I think the two drafts are ready to be moved to the main space now as articles, unless if you have any other major edits to make. Inter&anthro (talk) 03:02, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

@Inter&anthro: Sorry, I did not take the time to review your articles and currently do not have the time to do so. Feel free to publish them. Veverve (talk) 13:16, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

Sorry about that, thank you for your help. Feel free to edit and improve these articles in the future. Inter&anthro (talk) 18:54, 8 June 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Bible translations into Geʽez

On 28 April 2020, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Bible translations into Geʽez, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Bible translations into Geʽez date back to at least the 6th century, making them among the oldest in the world? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Bible translations into Geʽez. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Bible translations into Geʽez), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

— Maile (talk) 12:01, 28 April 2020 (UTC)

Aldine Bible

There are two references (Fletcher III 1988; Symonds 1911) which don't have corresponding full citations. Could you add them please?

If you want to be aware of those missing refs in the future, you can install User:Svick/HarvErrors.js. If you don't know how, let me know I'll walk you through it. Headbomb {t · c · p · b} 11:31, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

@Headbomb: thanks for telling me! The references have been added. Veverve (talk) 11:39, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

Black Legend

Hi V. Just re the Black Legend article where you reverted my edit. The second part of text that I removed was the following:

Past Spanish ownership of about half of the United States is unknown by most Americans.  Spanish foreign minister Josep Borrell said that he saw a re-emergence of the black legend in European coverage of the Catalan independence movement, particularly by the English-speaking press (which unquestioningly accepted unverified injury figures).

This information is fully sourced, but is cited later on in the article, and is part of a rewrite that I am doing of that section. It will remain in the article, but hopefully as part of a more coherent paragraph. I will remove the part about Catalan injury figures, because it is OR, and not mentioned in the source. If there is another source which mentions Borrel saying it, I'm totally happy for it to remain in the text.

The first part is OR:

References to black-legend constructs are used in Argentina to argue in favor of protectionism against Spanish companies.

It is the interpretation of the editor who first added this paragraph that Cecchini and Cicolillo are using "black-legend constructs" rather than the opinion given in the source (which is Cecchini and Cicolillo's article). If you know of a source which states explicitly that "References to black-legend constructs are used in Argentina", then that should definitely be in the article.

Anyway, like I said, I am in the process of streamlining that section to reduce repetition and remove OR, I'm going to add a new version tonight (probably) which will include all the info in the first quote except for the phrase "(which unquestioningly accepted unverified injury figures)", but will cut the second quote as OR (unless you know of a source which supports it, then I will add that).

I am a bit rubbish at editing in one go, and so I'd be really grateful if you could wait till I've completed the edits (I'll put a note in discussion), and look at the section yourself and make any improvements you feel might be needed to the final version as a whole.

All the best and hope you and yours are doing well in this difficult time.

Boynamedsue (talk) 12:20, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

@Boynamedsue: Hello! I hope you are doing alright. Sorry for reverting your work, but I did not know you were working on the long run. Veverve (talk) 12:35, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

No problem, it's my fault for forgetting to log-in, and not stating it was an on-going edit. I suspect you might have checked before reverting if you'd seen a username. In any case, I hadn't started the re-write proper yet.Boynamedsue (talk) 13:30, 27 May 2020 (UTC)

References

1. Powell, Philip Wayne, 1971, Tree of Hate (first edition).
2. Borrell, El Cip Y La Leyenda Negra Luis Oz – http://www.elmundo.es/television/2018/06/21/5b2bbdb7ca4741f77d8b461d.html
3. Daniel Cecchini y Jorge Cicolillo, Los Nuevos Conquistadores. Cómo las Empresas Españolas expoliaron Argentina.

WikiLoop Battlefield new name vote

Dear Veverve,

Thank you for your interest and contributions to WikiLoop Battlefield. We are holding a voting for proposed new name. We would like to invite you to this voting. The voting is held at m:WikiProject_WikiLoop/New_name_vote and ends on July 13th 00:00 UTC.

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Mar Thoma Syrian Church

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Category:Old Testament editions has been nominated for deletion

Category:Old Testament editions has been nominated for deletion. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Marcocapelle (talk) 09:04, 24 July 2020 (UTC)

expression "the quite similar"

Hi Veverve,

in this edit: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Millennium_Bible&diff=next&oldid=972159032 you use expression: "the quite similar". Are you sure? It's very strange to me.

MichalZim (talk) 06:59, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

@MichalZim: I am no native speaker, but it seems correct. Veverve (talk) 10:59, 13 August 2020 (UTC)

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Scripturae sacrae affectus moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Scripturae sacrae affectus, does not have enough sources and citations as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Misplaced Pages). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Misplaced Pages's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. John B123 (talk) 15:26, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

@John B123: I have added some sources. Is that enough? Veverve (talk) 16:09, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Hi Veverve, that's fine. I've moved the article back to mainspace. Regards --John B123 (talk) 16:15, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

Becciu Scandal

Please do not add unreferenced or poorly referenced information, especially if controversial... sure but Becciu scandal is real, and Pope Francis is victim like the whole Catholic church. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/25/world/europe/Cardinal-Becciu-Fired.html Please try to document yourself the section simply said that the Pope kicked Becciu out.--Peter39c (talk) 23:45, 15 October 2020 (UTC) It's certainly not gossip to steal 200 million euros.--Peter39c (talk) 23:46, 15 October 2020 (UTC)

DYK for Fratelli tutti

On 30 October 2020, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Fratelli tutti, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that Pope Francis's encyclical Fratelli tutti is the first to be signed outside Rome? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Fratelli tutti. You are welcome to check how many page hits the article got while on the front page (here's how, Fratelli tutti), and it may be added to the statistics page if the total is over 5,000. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

Cwmhiraeth (talk) 00:02, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

@Cwmhiraeth: is it normal that I do not see this fact in the 30 October DYK list? Veverve (talk) 05:17, 30 October 2020 (UTC) 05:17, 30 October 2020 (UTC)Veverve (talk)

It's on the main page now, and will be there until 12.00 UTC. We have just started running two DYK sets a day because of an increasing backlog of hooks. Cwmhiraeth (talk) 06:10, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Linking in infoboxes of popes

Howdy. We don't link the reign/term dates of heads of state or the rest of the popes. GoodDay (talk) 14:19, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

@GoodDay: Thanks for your message. I believe it is useful to link those parameters. Is there a consensus or a policy which would forbid it? Veverve (talk) 14:20, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

You'll note, at Richard Nixon (for example) that January 20, 1969 isn't linked to First inauguration of Richard Nixon & August 9, 1974 isn't linked to Resignation of Richard Nixon. It's the practice across Misplaced Pages, to not link the dates. GoodDay (talk) 14:22, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

@GoodDay: If there is such a practice then I accept it. Veverve (talk) 14:25, 30 October 2020 (UTC)

Page moves

Thank you for your help with page moves. When you move a page per a Requested move discussion, as you did at Talk:Russian True Orthodox Church (Lazar Zhurbenko)#Requested move 10 November 2020, please close the request by following the instructions at WP:RMCI. Thanks again! P.I. Ellsworth  ed.  06:39, 14 November 2020 (UTC)

Benjamin (Likhomanov)

Hi Veverve, it has been a while, but I am currently finishing up working on Draft:Benjamin (Likhomanov), and was contacting you to see if there were any improvements you wanted to make before it was moved to the mainspace. The Russian-language version of the article can be found here. If you are too busy don't worry, there is no rush. Thank you Inter&anthro (talk) 19:36, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

@Inter&anthro: Ok, I will try to have a look. Veverve (talk) 08:18, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

@Inter&anthro: done. Veverve (talk) 11:04, 20 November 2020 (UTC)

New, simpler RfC to define trust levels for WikiLoop DoubleCheck

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Old Testament Vulgate manuscripts

Hello Veverve! I have been preparing a much expanded list of Vulgate OT manuscripts for a while now. Meanwhile, you have created a new (and much needed) page for Vulgate manuscripts. I think it'd obviously be a good idea for us to work together. Could you look over my project User:JaneStillman/Vulgate and tell me what you think? Cheers JaneStillman (talk) 15:07, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

@JaneStillman: Thanks for the message. I have a few remarks.

1) why are some sigla and names in bold? Is it done on purpose?

2) please explain in the article how you used Mardsen's work to modify the table, and name said work.

3) You must convert the references which are on the ", " formats (e.g. "Bible of Maurdramnus , , , , ") into proper refs (i.e. footnotes).

4) I have corrected the current table at Vulgate_manuscripts#Old Testament recently; did you include my corrections? I believe you did not, as the names of the rows in your version were still in bold, and the two tables do not have the same content for "Maurdramni"; if you have not done yet, please include my corrections.

5) EDIT: I just updated the Vulgate manuscripts article to separate manuscripts containing whole bibles from those which only contain the OT or part of it and only contain the NT or part of it.

6) EDIT: what is the "*" referring to?

Veverve (talk) 15:23, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

@JaneStillman: Oh et, si tu préfère, tu peux me parler en français (je viens de voir ton Babel). Veverve (talk) 15:28, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

@JaneStillman: There is still a "*" at "Tegernsee*". Veverve (talk) 21:38, 21 November 2020 (UTC)

@JaneStillman: any news? Veverve (talk) 13:21, 14 December 2020 (UTC)

@JaneStillman: any news this time? Veverve (talk) 02:57, 10 January 2021 (UTC)

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Reverting

I am at a complete loss why you revert, without any explanation, accusing me of vandalism, there where I only add a new article and make a link with its parent article. I would be more suspecting you of vandalism if you cannot give a reasonable explanation for your behaviour. --Andries Van den Abeele (talk) 13:13, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

@Andries Van den Abeele: You changed the text to to say it is an archbishopric, while the curent text says it is a Matropolis, without sourcing your change. Veverve (talk) 13:17, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

You are much too rapid in your reaction. My change was a and remains the first step in order to make an article devoted to the Benelux orthodox church and linked with the mother church of Constantinople. The article is now placed and tells it all. The Benelux orthodox church is both: an archbishopric and a metropolis. See: Orthodox Archdiocese of Belgium and exarchate of the Netherlands and Luxembourg. I hope that you next time will be more considerate and less hasty. Andries Van den Abeele (talk) 13:57, 26 November 2020 (UTC)

Visual editor

I think you're tripping a couple of bugs in the Visual Editor. I've had to repair places it's added "nowiki" and some garbage "div" in there. Check the tags after you edit, it should inform you what happened. Elizium23 (talk) 01:39, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

@Elizium23: thanks for the warning. Could you tell me where those mistakes have appeared? I cannot look at all the tags after my edits, as it would take too much time for the task I am currently accomplishing. Veverve (talk) 01:49, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

nowiki added, span added and actually the second one didn't recognize it in a tag, so even tougher to find! Well, you can just rely on the good will of people cleaning up after you... it's not so many after all. Elizium23 (talk) 01:57, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Speedy deletion declined: Antiespaña

Hello Veverve. I am just letting you know that I declined the speedy deletion of Antiespaña, a page you tagged for speedy deletion, because of the following concern: G6 and G8 are for technical maintenance or when the page doesn't exist. Use WP:RfD if you want to delete it. Thank you. ~ Amory (u • t • c) 19:09, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

Heads up

Re Special:Permalink/1004437962#Visual editor, our article on the Christian name Lucas was protected on Saturday for eight months. This was three days after a certain administrator !voted "delete" in an AfD discussion for lack of content and two days after he deleted content added subsequent to his !vote in a WP:INVOLVED act. He blocked the contributor in another WP:INVOLVED action. Anyone want to raise this at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents? @Andrew Davidson: @Bearian: @Mr248: @Peterkingiron: 95.149.135.141 (talk) 14:55, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

I am not an admin and do not have the buttons to block, etc. Bearian (talk) 19:38, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

I don't understand why you are pinging me. I know nothing about this issue and don't want to get involved in it. Mr248 (talk) 23:32, 3 February 2021 (UTC)

Subreption

Hello, Veverve. This is a courtesy notice that the copy edit you requested for Subreption at the Guild of Copy Editors requests page is now complete. All feedback welcome! Cheers, Baffle☿gab 23:02, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Approbation (Catholic canon law)

Hello, Veverve. This is a courtesy notice that the copy edit you requested for Approbation (Catholic canon law) at the Guild of Copy Editors requests page is now complete. All feedback welcome! Cheers, Baffle☿gab 05:44, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Why did you restore a link to a Greek Orthodox cathedral in Birmingham in an article about a Russian Orthodox cathedral in London?

It's fairly obvious these are two different buildings. 89.240.113.241 (talk) 16:17, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

I do not think they are different buildings, you would need to provide documentation for this. Veverve (talk) 16:20, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

If you hover your mouse over the link you will see a picture of the building to which the link goes. If you compare the picture of the London building you will see it is a different building. I consider that to be sufficient documentation. 89.240.113.241 (talk) 16:51, 11 February 2021 (UTC)

Psalm 43 query

Hello, Veverve. I'm puzzled. Maybe you can explain to me how the Hebrew Bible is "not a source" — and how https://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt2643.htm#1 doesn't satisfy pertinent sourcing requirements. As noted in my edit summary (diff), this fits the practice at Psalm_45#Hebrew_Bible_version. Noting that the edit was in response to an edit request from Gerda Arendt (diff). This isn't actually an area to which I ordinarily contribute, for whatever's that's worth. Thanks! El_C 11:25, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

@El C: you did not state mechon-mamre was your source. Stating "the Hebrew bible" is not a valid source, much like "the Vulgate" or "Plato's Republic" are not sources: you have to state the name of the book, the edition and the page number or the website in a footnote.

If you want to have the Hebrew version of psalm 43, I agree. Veverve (talk) 11:33, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

(edit conflict, seems resolved, but now I typed it:) The text is the official Misplaced Pages source, and also the King James Version, and these two (but no others) are supposed to appear in all psalm articles. It's a slow process. Compare BWV 84. --Gerda Arendt (talk) 11:34, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

I have no idea what's happening! Anyway, Gerda, the edit with my adjusted Hebrew formatting is there for future reference. Thanks for your patience, Veverve. El_C 11:38, 12 February 2021 (UTC)

Edit on Bartholomew I of Constantinople

Hi, I see you reverted my mobile edit (different IP but it's me) on Bartholomew I of Constantinople that fixes a broken link. I've reverted your revert and invite you to check that the link is indeed broken without my edit ( doesn't load for me, does). No further action is needed if you do, this is just to prevent an unnecessary revert war. 82.95.254.249 (talk) 11:55, 28 February 2021 (UTC)

Your thread has been archived

WikiLoop 2020 Year in Review

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Disambiguation link notification for April 10

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Two kingdoms doctrine

Hi, you have been reverted my edition. I don't agree. Please read the meaning of the whole paragraph. In Sermon on the Mountain an opposition to injustice is exhorted; otherwise there would be no contradiction mentioned in the paragraph... and then there would be no reason for two kingdoms doctrine. --Jmarchn (talk) 14:18, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

@Jmarchn: Hello. I believe "repay evil with retribution" is opposed to "passivity in the face of oppression". Veverve (talk) 14:45, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

It seems to me that you have not understood what the Sermon on the Mount does not propose passivity in the face of oppression!. You can read, for example, The Sermon on the Mount: A Theology of Resistance. --Jmarchn (talk) 19:57, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

@Jmarchn: It is not up to me to decide what this semon is about. I am simply stating that your version of Luther's vision does not contain a contradiction, contradiction which is supposed to exist as it is mentioned in the beginning of the paragraph. Veverve (talk) 20:10, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

Jerusalem Bible

Did you even look at the page? The section twice mentioned Tolkien's involvement in the translation of Jonah; there's no reason to do this, and absolutely no reason to revert blindly as if I were a vandal. 2600:1003:B84E:A0BF:F8C6:904:6CD4:B2DC (talk) 10:25, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Pisanie

Hello. Do you happen to know what this might be called in English? The word is Romanian, but I assume such inscriptions exist in other Orthodox traditions as well. — Biruitorul 21:13, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

@Biruitorul: Hello. Sorry, I really do not know how those writings are called in other EO churches, or if they even exist in other EO churches. Veverve (talk) 21:25, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

@Чръный человек: maybe you could help. Veverve (talk) 20:21, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Vaticinium ex eventu

Hello, I improved on and added links to a previous edit that you reversed. You keep reversing in spite of citations to the contrary. Please stop. This is neither helpful, nor does it benefit the quality of the article. Rusdo (talk) 03:30, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

Saints

I have reverted your move of List of Cornish saints, and noted on the talk page my reasons. I see you are engaged in moving many other pages to claim RC exclusivity. I think this is unhelpful and likely to be seen as disruptive - other churches have saints, some of the saints on the lists may be saints in other churches as well as the Roman Catholic, and some may not be saints in the Roman Catholic Church. I suggest you undo your moves and in future use WP:RM for such wholesale and likely-to-be-objected-to moves. DuncanHill (talk) 13:28, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

@DuncanHill: the articles I moved are exclusively about RC saints, yet are called "List of X saints", as if all the saints from this region were only RC saints. Feel free to change all of those articles to include saints from other churches and then to undo my moves. Veverve (talk) 13:31, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

That is untrue. For example, in List of Cornish saints the very first saint is Austol, who is RC, Eastern Orthodox, and Anglican. DuncanHill (talk) 13:33, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

@DuncanHill: I should not have moved List of Cornish saints, as it states it concerns all saints from Corwall without mention of a specific Church; it was my mistake. Veverve (talk) 13:38, 8 May 2021 (UTC)

Ignatius (Deputatov) & Cyril (Nakonechny)

Hello Veverve, sorry to hear that you have retired, but checking your contributions log it seems as if you not totally done just yet. Two drafts I have been working on about Russian Orthodox bishops I think are near done, if you'd like to have a look you can find them at Draft:Ignatius (Deputatov) and Draft:Cyril (Nakonechny), if your not interested anymore that's fine. Thank you Inter&anthro (talk) 00:02, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

@Inter&anthro: Sorry, I am not interested anymore. I really do my best not to edit anymore unless it is really needed, and a fortriori I do my best not to edit on niche subjects anymore. Still, I thank you for your request. Veverve (talk) 10:36, 26 May 2021 (UTC)

Christian Church

Can you shorten that short description? Editor2020 (talk) 02:48, 15 July 2021 (UTC)

July 2021

Your recent editing history at Traditionis custodes shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war. See the bold, revert, discuss cycle for how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly.
Anupam 23:06, 16 July 2021 (UTC)

Traditionis Custodes

Why did you revert the change involving the removal of the word "revokation"? Without any evidence that this is a revokation of Summorum Pontificum, that wording does NOT stand. 108.66.108.145 (talk) 03:40, 17 July 2021 (UTC)

Thank you

While it appears you have been out of retirement to some degree for a while, I can't help but appreciate the incredible work you have done on ensuring the article for Traditionis custodes, a major document in for many Catholics, received the deserved treatment by an experienced editor. Additionally, despite hiccups and miscommunications, you maintained a general disposition toward cordiality and productiveness that serves as inspiration for a hobbyist such as myself. Thank you for your contributions. ~ Pbritti (talk) 05:11, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

		The Christianity Barnstar
		For your excellent, constructive, and polite work on the article Traditionis custodes ~ Pbritti (talk) 05:11, 18 July 2021 (UTC)

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DYK nomination of Canon law of the Eastern Orthodox Church

Hello! Your submission of Canon law of the Eastern Orthodox Church at the Did You Know nominations page has been reviewed, and some issues with it may need to be clarified. Please review the comment(s) at your nomination's entry and respond there as soon as possible. Thank you for contributing to Did You Know! BuySomeApples (talk) 23:17, 7 September 2021 (UTC)

Original research

Please do not add original research or primary source material, as you did at Catacombs of Rome. Your original edits there were reverted because they included block quotes without attribution. Please do not re-add this material again without a discussion of its appropriateness and presentation. St★lwart 06:29, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

@Stalwart111: I do not get it: there is a source to my paragraph. Please AGF and do not call my edits vandalism. Veverve (talk) 06:40, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

I didn't say it was unsourced, nor did I call it vandalism (though your blind revert re-included vandalism that was not dealt with before your series of edits). Either its a quote from you (original research) or from someone else (without attribution). Either way its not appropriate. Please take it to the article talk page. St★lwart 06:45, 14 September 2021 (UTC)

WP:ANI

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.St★lwart 01:05, 15 September 2021 (UTC)

DYK for Canon law of the Eastern Orthodox Church

On 23 September 2021, Did you know was updated with a fact from the article Canon law of the Eastern Orthodox Church, which you recently created, substantially expanded, or brought to good article status. The fact was ... that some canons of the canon law of the Eastern Orthodox Church contradict each other? The nomination discussion and review may be seen at Template:Did you know nominations/Canon law of the Eastern Orthodox Church. You are welcome to check how many pageviews the nominated article or articles got while on the front page (here's how, Canon law of the Eastern Orthodox Church), and if they received a combined total of at least 416.7 views per hour (i.e., 5,000 views in 12 hours or 10,000 in 24), the hook may be added to the statistics page. Finally, if you know of an interesting fact from another recently created article, then please feel free to suggest it on the Did you know talk page.

 — Amakuru (talk) 12:02, 23 September 2021 (UTC)

You just reverted my edit of Priest shortage in the Catholic Church. I raised the number of priests involved in the sexual abuse scandal from "hundreds" to "thousands". The list of cases on Misplaced Pages as well as those reported in the media document thousands of actions taken by the Catholic church and courts against priests found guilty of sexual abuse. Why do you wish to keep this number at "hundreds" in the article?

https://apnews.com/article/europe-france-sexual-abuse-by-clergy-sexual-abuse-religion-ee99d7921e5a1b8c45c770bf5af7ba38

Gavin (talk) 17:43, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

@Kaiwen1:

1) No number was given in the sources given, so I undid your edition and removed the numbers.

2) Even if you use other sources for giving a number, this would be WP:SYNTH. Veverve (talk) 19:22, 5 October 2021 (UTC)

Richard Williams Morgan

Hi, Veverve

I have reverted your changes to the Richard Williams Morgan article, since you had effectively erased most of it. You claim it was unsourced - the facts of RWM's life are readily found in the sources quoted in the list of 'Sources' - if you wish to turn these into numbered inline references please do the research first and then do so - most of the facts can be found in more than one of the sources, and it would probably require three of four numbered references at the end of every sentence. And RWM had an importance much wider than his involvement with the Ancient British Church, which is I assume your own interest! John O'London (talk) 07:10, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

@John O'London: Hello. I undid your undoing. Any unsourced claim of this sort can be removed. If those claims are sourced and you want to keep them, then feel free to source them with inline references. I do not have to make any research to put inline references and keep those claims, as I am happy with simply removing those unsourced claims. Veverve (talk) 07:17, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

If you look at the history you will see that the article was created over more than 10 years by several dozen contributors drawing on the sources listed in the list of Sources. As I understand it, inline references were not thought essential by Misplaced Pages at the time it was created (I believe there are still plenty of Wiki articles without an inline reference for every fact). John O'London (talk) 07:45, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

@John O'London: Yes, policies were different at the time. Veverve (talk) 08:11, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

So, won't you agree articles that were originally created with a list of Sources instead of one-by-one inline references should be left intact until they can be 'improved' to meet modern Wiki standards, and should not be torn up root and branch, leaving someone to try to reconstruct them? I see the Welsh DNB gives a link to the Misplaced Pages article - which is a bit pointless at the moment, since you've even deleted material that is found in the Welsh DNB! John O'London (talk) 08:27, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

@John O'London: Enough time has passed (numerous years!), and this article is still not up to today's standards. I did not remove the sources, so other users can use them to expand the article. It is better to have few reliably sourced or easily checkable information than having long articles, as WP:CITOGENESIS should be avoided. I am not giving the benefit of the doubt to parts which have been improperly sourced for years, and leaving unsourced information until a saviour comes and takes the time to check them and check the sources is not, in my opinion, a correct way to proceed. Veverve (talk) 08:39, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

How do we take it from here? Although I've been contributing to Misplaced Pages for years, I'm not experienced in the by-ways of procedure and policy - how do we get a second opinion or arbitration? I must admit I wasn't aware whole articles could be effectively deleted simply for not having inline references and for using an out-of-date system for crediting their sources! Is this now official Misplaced Pages policy?John O'London (talk) 09:06, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

@John O'London: I think it falls under Misplaced Pages:Verifiability. A third opinion can be requested at Misplaced Pages:Third opinion. Veverve (talk) 14:43, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

@Veverve:Thank you for the work you've done on the Richard Williams Morgan article recently (apparently on the basis of the single source you could get access to). I'm afraid your reliance on one single published source gives a very unbalanced picture of Morgan's life and career!

I had almost decided to give in, dig out my research notes from 20 years ago, call up the source books at the British Library (Freeman and Brown are much more reliable than Thomann, and there's also a recent thesis that describes RWM's role in the Tractarian movement) and rewrite the whole thing from scratch.

However, I came across this Misplaced Pages template:

This article does not cite any sources. Please help improve this article by adding citations to reliable sources. Unsourced material may be challenged and removed. Find sources: "Veverve" – news · newspapers · books · scholar · JSTOR (Learn how and when to remove this message)

Should you not have considered adding an appropriate template to the article rather than wholesale deletion? In fact the "unreferenced" template didn't apply anyway, since it clearly says: "This template should only be used on articles that have no citations or references at all" and "In articles containing a list of sources at the end, but no inline citations, including parenthetical references or in-text attributions, consider

This article includes a list of references, related reading, or external links, but its sources remain unclear because it lacks inline citations. Please help improve this article by introducing more precise citations. (Learn how and when to remove this message)

when the article would be significantly improved by detailed attribution of sources to specific claims."

So it seems that what YOU should have done was simply to attach the template

This article includes a list of references, related reading, or external links, but its sources remain unclear because it lacks inline citations. Please help improve this article by introducing more precise citations. (Learn how and when to remove this message)

This would alert the unwary reader that the content might be untrustworthy - (and only then could you legitimately complain that the article was "not up to today's standards"). And I may be the only person who has RWM on my watchlist, but it would at least have alerted me there was a problem before you took root and branch action. Although frankly I don't think a brief biography like RWM's will be "significantly improved" by adding a numbered footnote to every sentence. (Look at the Oxford DNB for example - they don't have footnotes, simply a list of sources at the end.) John O'London (talk) 14:18, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

@John O'London: Misplaced Pages:Verifiability states: "any material challenged or likely to be challenged must be supported by inline citations." Sorry, I am not goinf to wait indefinetly until someone decides to take the time to verify every claim in every source: it was never done in years in the RWM article, in fact I have been the first person in years to care enough to improve substantially the reliability of this article. I know of the existence of those templates, and believe problems should be fixed, not thrown under the rug. Also, yes, Misplaced Pages does not work like some websites and encyclopedia do. Veverve (talk) 19:41, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

@Veverve:What it says is "All quotations, and any material whose verifiability has been challenged or is likely to be challenged, must include an inline citation to a reliable source that directly supports the material." Are you challenging the verifiability of the information in the original RWM article? If so - do it, on its talk page. But you've actually made it clear you don't have access to the sources cited and that you know nothing about the subject - so why do you take it upon yourself to decide what in this particular article requires verification? Will putting online references to the same limited number of sources make it any more verifiable? Certainly not by the ordinary reader - as you've discovered, there are very few sources available on the subject, and they are not easily accessible. You claim to "have been the first person in years to care enough to improve substantially the reliability of this article". Frankly that's rubbish. You destroyed an accurate and reliable article to replace it with some scanty third-hand references from a source that isn't even about the subject of the article. Please leave it alone. John O'London (talk) 21:15, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

@John O'London: If you want to argue that I breached any policy or request my ban from this particular article, you can do it at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents. I will not try to explain to you how an article with no inline citation is not an accurate and reliable article. Veverve (talk) 21:28, 2 November 2021 (UTC)

Pope Francis

Your reversion on my edit instead should have been an edit to include German in Francis's list of fluent languages. He is still not fluent in French, English, etc., nor does the source claim that he is. I am going to edit the article again to fix that. If you have any issue with the newer edit, please talk it out with me instead of simply reverting it. Succubus MacAstaroth (talk) 15:42, 19 October 2021 (UTC)

Images I helped creating

On WCommons, I have directed the work on this timelines where I introduced a nuance betwen True Orthodoxy and Old Calendarists, and True Orthodoxy and the ROCOR and ROCOR(A).

• File:Timeline of the main Old Calendarists and True Orthodox Greek Eastern Orthodox Churches (2021).svg
• File:Timeline of the main schisms from the Russian Orthodox Church (1589 to 2021).svg

My train of thoughts was that True Orthodoxy considered the sacraments made by mainstream churches to be invalid, whereas Old Calendarists and the ROCOR(A) did not. However, according to the definition I found and added at True Orthodoxy, Old Calendarists are a variant of True Orthodox. In Greece, the movement is known as Greek Old Calendarism, due to historical circumstances so the difference is semantic not on the essence; therefore, from what I undertand, all those independent churches at File:Timeline of the main Old Calendarists and True Orthodox Greek Eastern Orthodox Churches (2021).svg should all be either in blue as "Autocephalous Old Clendarist church" (my preferred opinion), or in orange as "Autocephalous True Orthodox church". I do not know if the ROCOR(A) and the ROCOR were or are traditionalist, so I will leave them as they are.
@Чръный человек, Lipsio, Sawyer-mcdonell, and Ribose carb: what do you think of my idea to change the Greek timeline? Veverve (talk) 20:27, 4 November 2021 (UTC)

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Why are you destroying the information about our church to the world -

I do not understand why you want to destroy the information on tnis page ... are you the arbitor of all things?

You do a lot of editing in Orthodox religion pages

you are a sinful person --- even if our group was made by the devil himself - the world should know the status of the church and where we are today

please refrain from deleting the history of our church - it is akin to the Nazi book burnings — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2600:8801:1005:F300:C0C6:287A:393:EBC6 (talk) 04:53, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Hello IP. I do not know what article you are talking about. In any case, WP:V is not the Nazi book burnings. Veverve (talk) 04:55, 21 November 2021 (UTC)

Your thread has been archived

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Requesting some article expansion help

Greetings,

Requesting your visit to Draft:Intellectual discourse over re-mosqueing of Hagia Sophia and article expansion help if you find your interest in the topic.

Thanks and warm regards

Bookku, 'Encyclopedias = expanding information & knowledge' (talk) 17:16, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

@Bookku: Hello. Unfortunately, I do no have the skills or knowledge needed to substantially improve a draft on this topic. Veverve (talk) 17:19, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Writer's Barnstar
	You deserve this especially for assisting in the improvement of articles relating to the Independent Sacramental Movement. One subject improvement alongside articles would be the creation of the article for the Catholicate of the West. TheLionHasSeen (talk) 18:27, 25 November 2021 (UTC)

WP:V

I see you've gotten into it on another article. Here is what the policy says:

When tagging or removing material for lacking an inline citation, please state your concern that it may not be possible to find a published reliable source, and the material therefore may not be verifiable. If you think the material is verifiable, you are encouraged to provide an inline citation yourself before considering whether to remove or tag it.

When tagging or removing such material, please keep in mind such edits can easily be misunderstood. Some editors object to others making chronic, frequent, and large-scale deletions of unsourced information, especially if unaccompanied by other efforts to improve the material. Do not concentrate only on material of a particular point of view, as that may appear to be a contravention of Misplaced Pages:Neutral point of view. Also, check to see whether the material is sourced to a citation elsewhere on the page. For all these reasons, it is advisable to clearly communicate that you have a considered reason to believe the material in question cannot be verified.

Emphasis mine. Srnec (talk) 20:38, 27 November 2021 (UTC)

Your thread has been archived

CCC

In the CCC article, I wrote:

Three decades prior to the first publication of the Catechism of the Catholic Church in 1992, the Second Vatican Council was convened in 1962 to discern strategies aimed at the spiritual renewal of the church. Following the council, many major reforms were implemented.

The source states:

at the end of the Council 41 years ago, the Church’s primary task became the study and application of these teachings. The principal themes of the Council, as expressed in its four constitutions on Scripture, liturgy, the Church, and relating the Gospel to the modem world, presented a major challenge: how to integrate these new insights into the faith and life of the Catholic Church at the end of the second millennium of Christianity.

My text is a fair summary of the source.

Also in the CCC article, I wrote:

In 2018, Pope Francis modified paragraph no. 2267 in the official Latin edition; updated translations were subsequently published, including a modified second edition English translation.

On the cover of the print edition, is says this information. There is no requirement that a source be available online. –Zfish118 23:38, 1 December 2021 (UTC)

@Zfish118:

There is no mention in your first source that Vatican II was made to discern strategies aimed at the spiritual renewal of the church. Following the council, many major reforms were implemented to apply these teachings.

What book are you refering to? You have put as a reference the website of the Vatican which does not contain the information. Veverve (talk) 02:14, 2 December 2021 (UTC)

AM30228479 spamming you

I am so sorry that this happened. I'm anyways warning them. Faster than Thunder (talk) 04:04, 15 December 2021 (UTC)

Biblical Canon Article and the LDS canon section

So, in 2011, I began work on cleaning-up the Biblical canon article. It remains a mess, but it was even worse back then. I first viewed it with a final section on the LDS canon. I never had the heart to delete it, but I do not think it belongs there. What I certainly have problems with is discussing the standard works of one LDS denomination and not others. So I wrote a few paragraphs that discussed some of those other denominations. They were sourced. Over the years, other editors blew them up into something much larger than my original intent. I still think if you include a section on the LDS canon at all, it should include more than just one denomination. That was my purpose for reverting that section back. 75.117.193.162 (talk) 02:08, 24 December 2021 (UTC)

Retired

Will you consider removing the "retired" tag, that you are editing at a prolific rate. TrangaBellam (talk) 13:42, 26 December 2021 (UTC)

Orthodox Church of Ukraine

Regarding the separations in the OCU:

As it states in Conflict between Filaret and Epiphanius, only two bishops came to the Filaret's Council: Metropolitan Joasaph  and his vicar, bishop Peter (Moscalev)  who head parishes of the UOC-KP in Russia and Moldova.

The juristictions in Russia and Moldova never were parts of the Orthodox Church of Ukraine, therefore we can't count them as separations from the OCU. The canonical territory of the OCU is Ukraine, and those were supposed to be transferred to the Ecumenical Patriarchate.

As for Filaret himself, he remains a member of the Orthodox Church of Ukraine, as the Kyiv Patriarchate church was never officially restored despite some attempts. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ‎EricLewan (talk • contribs)

References

1. https://www.pomisna.info/uk/episcopate-post/filaret-denisenko/

@EricLewan: Some bishops and priests still constitute "part" of an organisation's clergy. It is clear the UOC-KP and the OCU split, whatever narrative the OCU tries to spin; reality trumps canon law. Veverve (talk) 12:30, 4 January 2022 (UTC)

My apologies

I was not in a good state of mind when I called the large edits to the Ethiopic canon page "racist". I apologize. I also didn't recognize who made those changes. (I sometimes don't look at the editors, just the changes.) I think I had just thanked you for your contributions related to the Vulgate on a related page---ones I eventually agreed with based on my own prior knowledge. (Sometimes you forget what you already know.)

I created that page as the "Ethiopian Orthodox biblical canon" some years ago under a different username. This is a complex and problematic case to say the least. I do not agree with the wholesale edits you made, but I am also not sure about what existed before either---eventhough I was its author. Surely some middle-ground exists.Joeymanderson3 (talk) 00:56, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

@Joeymanderson3: I accept your excuses, no harm.

Like I said, I am sorry. It doesn't matter how you see it, it was an apology and not an excuse. I was wrong.Joeymanderson3 (talk) 04:28, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

As for the Orthodox Tewahedo biblical canon article, I had asked for those paragraphs to be sourced by inline refs two years ago, so I think it is legitimate to remove them as they were not sourced for many years, and remained unsourced for two years after an explicit request. Veverve (talk) 01:49, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

As for these things, I am tired. The amount of research that would have to go into this, beyond what has been already been published, is crazy--especially with the turmoil that has occurred and is occurring there. I also think there has been a lot of Western pressure on that canon, and that is why I called those edits racist---even though they clearly weren't.Joeymanderson3 (talk) 04:28, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

@Joeymanderson3: I accept your apologies. Veverve (talk) 02:49, 6 January 2022 (UTC)

The Russian Orthodox Church in America page has dissappeared from Misplaced Pages

The Church exists and someone keeps taking the page down

perhaps someone feels like we should not exist but we do ...

We have Bishops Priests and Laity.

How do we reinstate the orginal post that existed for at least 8 to 10 years and update that information

I am clergy in the Russian Orthodox Church in America tasked with maintaining social media content and information about our church

John Haydukovich — Preceding unsigned comment added by Haydukovich (talk • contribs) 22:23, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

@Haydukovich: The page was deleted after a WP:PROD proposed by @Ad Orientem:. I support this PROD on the ground of the arguments Ad Orientem proposed which can be read at Russian Orthodox Church in America; I support it even more since you wrote the WP article from scratch then used it as a notoriery argument on your own website, even boldly stating "According to reliable sources quoted in Misplaced Pages" when you did not provide any reliable source on the Misplaced Pages article (see also WP:NOTBLOG, WP:Self-promotion, Misplaced Pages:Conflict of interest).

If you want a refund, you will have to go to WP:UNDELETE. However, the article will be nominated as WP:AFD by me once it is restored, as the organisation clearly fails WP:NCHURCH. Veverve (talk) 22:54, 5 January 2022 (UTC) Veverve (talk) 22:54, 5 January 2022 (UTC)

Leonid Gorbachov

Please, look at this article. ~ Чръный человек (talk) 14:32, 8 January 2022 (UTC)

Paul VI Missal reversions.

What needs to be done to keep the deacon and subdeacon edits in the article? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Smak 84 (talk • contribs)

@Smak 84: Have WP:RS as inline references which support the information you add; see WP:V. Veverve (talk) 00:37, 10 January 2022 (UTC)

your message to me

Hi Veverve,

I saw your message about not leaving too many links to ten-commandments.org on various Misplaced Pages articles. However, it is difficult to know which link on which article would be effective. And the matter is urgent. I am very much a committed Catholic. Pope Francis has started the three-year process of Synodal Consultations which are crucial to bring about some very necessary updates as to how the Church operates. It is important that participants of the parochial and diocesan synods which have started to work are aware of the issues that need to be discussed. Please, let me know if you have constructive suggestions as to how I can reach them more effectively! Thanks. Elsa Elsa Beek (talk) 16:33, 12 January 2022 (UTC) @Veverve:

@Elsa Beek: Hello. Misplaced Pages is not here to WP:RIGHTGREATWRONGS or to serve as propaganda for any form of militant movement. If you want to raise awareness for your cause, please do it outside of Misplaced Pages. To know when something can be added, please see WP:DUE, WP:RS, WP:FRINGE, WP:ONUS. Veverve (talk) 18:12, 12 January 2022 (UTC)

Draft:Conor MacDari

Everything is wrong with this draft, but I couldn't help thinking of you when I saw some of these titles. Drmies (talk) 21:49, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

@Drmies: After reading the monument of scholarship that is Irish Wisdom Preserved in Bible and Pyramids, I am now convinced British Israelism is a fraud and that the true religion is Irishraelism, whatever some anti-Irish liars may say. I am now also convinced Shakespeare's plays were in fact written by an Irish man which is the reason why Bacon was killed. Veverve (talk) 23:09, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

I knew it. Drmies (talk) 23:26, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

My daughter wants to know if an Irish person has ever been to space. Drmies (talk) 23:30, 14 January 2022 (UTC)

@Drmies: Well, Irish are not made of antimatter so they certainly went there (inspired by this recent edit of mine). Veverve (talk) 10:26, 15 January 2022 (UTC)

Orthodox theology

I hope you are willing to solve all links to disambiguation pages that you have created with this retargeting. The Banner talk 16:11, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

@The Banner: I just did it now. Veverve (talk) 16:34, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

No, more work is needed]. The Banner talk 17:32, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

@The Banner: I do not see how all links which target this DAB are of my doing. Veverve (talk) 17:36, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

Please

Please use an edit summary. Thanks. Editor2020 (talk) 22:52, 17 January 2022 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Minor barnstar
	For minor edits to Hugh George de Willmott Newman. I dream of horses (Contribs) (Talk) 01:02, 18 January 2022 (UTC)

Undiscussed controversial page move

As far as I know, your page move "Apostle" to Apostle (word) was not discussed anywhere. So I will do an official request to reinstated the original title. Your move created 1282 links to disambiguation through templates alone plus - I did not look into it yet - many other articles. The Banner talk 06:38, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

@The Banner: I defend my page move, and creating DAB links was one of the goals as I stated in my edit summary of said page move. Veverve (talk) 06:40, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Did you try to discuss it anywhere to see if there was any support for it? And beside that: move an article with the intent to create links to disambiguation pages is at least dodgy. Official request tot move it back is now posted and open for discussion. The Banner talk 06:48, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Your page move is already reverted by an administrator. The Banner talk 06:50, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

January 2022

Hello. This is a message to let you know that one or more of your recent contributions, such as the edit you made to Apostles, did not appear to be constructive and have been reverted. Please take some time to familiarise yourself with our policies and guidelines. You can find information about these at our welcome page which also provides further information about contributing constructively to this encyclopedia. If you only meant to make test edits, please use your sandbox for that. If you think I made a mistake, or if you have any questions, you may leave a message on my talk page. Thank you. The Banner talk 15:24, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Please refrain from making unconstructive edits to Misplaced Pages, as you did at Apostles. Your edits appear to be disruptive and have been or will be reverted.

• If you are engaged in an article content dispute with another editor, please discuss the matter with the editor at their talk page, or the article's talk page, and seek consensus with them. Alternatively, you can read Misplaced Pages's dispute resolution page, and ask for independent help at one of the relevant noticeboards.
• If you are engaged in any other form of dispute that is not covered on the dispute resolution page, please seek assistance at Misplaced Pages's Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents.

Please ensure you are familiar with Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines, and please do not continue to make edits that appear disruptive. Continued disruptive editing may result in loss of editing privileges. Thank you. The Banner talk 15:25, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

@The Banner: you refuse to take the page back to WP:QUO or to discuss the change you want to make to the talk page, and prefer to give me warnings. What is your point? Veverve (talk) 15:29, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

That you are disruptively editwarring and POV-pushing. And you only ask for discussion after your undiscussed changes were reverted multiple times. The Banner talk 15:49, 29 January 2022 (UTC)

Seeing you filing at WP:AN, I assume that you refuse to tone down your behaviour. On your head, my friend, on your head. The Banner talk 08:18, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Some advice re: apostles

Since you've expressed appreciation for my involvement in this before, I hope you don't mind if I give you some advice, which is that in my opinion, escalating to AN will not accomplish anything. Although I think you've largely been in the right throughout this debate, Banner has a point that you shouldn't have made the initial page move without discussion – that wasn't against policy, but it was a bad judgement call – and then you shouldn't have edit-warred over the redirect (even though Banner did too). These actions will give some apparent merit to the claims of disruptive editing being made against you, and the AN thread is not likely to go your way (incidentally, I think you meant to post at ANI, not AN). The move request, also, is almost certainly going to fail now regardless of its merits, simply because the situation has got so messy.

So my advice is to WP:DISENGAGE. Withdraw the AN report, withdraw the move request, and let the issue drop for a few months. I know there's a real problem you're trying to address, but it's not so urgent that it needs to be dealt with immediately, especially now you've fixed all the links. If more links have accumulated in six months' time, you'll have an even stronger argument to move the page. I understand the frustration of having to back off when you know you're right, but you won't do yourself any favours by pursuing this any further. Dan from A.P. (talk) 13:03, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

@DanFromAnotherPlace: thanks for the advice. I withdrew my RM. As for the the ANM, I will let it go throught, as I feel the user is not going to stop if the problem is not taken to there. Besides, I am already getting thrown in the mud by another user at this ANM. I did not mean to post an ANI as the matter is not urgent, but I wrote "ANI" a few times because I am very used to reporting vandals and POV-pushers to ANI. Veverve (talk) 18:25, 1 February 2022 (UTC)

Alright, good luck. Dan from A.P. (talk) 10:49, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

@DanFromAnotherPlace: my ANM has been archived without any admin intervention. I think therefore I will follow you advice and go back to those subjects in a few months. Veverve (talk) 18:39, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

Probably for the best, I think. Dan from A.P. (talk) 21:43, 12 February 2022 (UTC)

International Day of Human Fraternity

Hi, Veverve After a 'This section may contain material unrelated or insufficiently related to the topic of the article' banner was placed in the Religion section, I improved the text by adding some references in order to make clearer the link between the section and the subject of the entry. Find the changes here: https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=International_Day_of_Human_Fraternity&type=revision&diff=1069644755&oldid=1069510582 Thank you for your help! --Sirionnd1118 (talk) 14:16, 4 February 2022 (UTC)

Please consider

Please consider my revision of Gospel of John as I am trying to make wiki article more scholastic. Please be ecumenical and stop sectarianism on religious articles. Royalistandlegitimist (talk) 09:29, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

@Royalistandlegitimist: I did consider them and do not approve of them. As I said, it is useless to had that many information to add languages unrelated to those texts; it is especially useless since the content you add is unsourced. If you disagree, I advise you discuss it to the te talk pages of the four different articles of the gospels. Adding more languages do not make an article more scholarly as far as I know. You even removed a RS. Therefore, I will revert all three of your edits.

I fail to see how I can be sectarian in any form, please do not make those accusations of me being POV-pushing lightly. Veverve (talk) 09:51, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Instead of pushing back and forth can you two provide reliable sources for the parts under discussion? Thank you. The Banner talk 10:42, 6 February 2022 (UTC)

Regulae Iuris

@Veverve:

I had posted a link to a file for the Regulae Iuris since you objected to them being placed on the page itself. You are of the opinion that this information is not useful.

I obviously believe otherwise. They are a fundamental part of interpreting Catholic Canon Law. Please restore my most recent post!

​Ever, Bruce

Canonistdoa (talk) 15:53, 17 February 2022 (UTC)Monsignor Bruce Miller, JCL Professor of Theological Studies

St. Joseph Seminary College

Judicial Vicar Emeritus

Pastor Emeritus

211 Lourdes Ln

Covington, LA 70435-6120

318.542.9136

DBruce.Miller@Gmail.com

@Canonistdoa: I did not disagree on you adding those, but you 1) added them to the body of the article 2) to replace parts of the article you had removed without jutifying your removal. Also, if you signature really describes who you are, you tried to add your own work, which constitutes WP:SELFCITE, and possibly a WP:Conflict of interest. WP:SELFCITE is not forbidden; however, the most opportune behaviour is to make a request at the talk pages of the article for other users to evaluate whether or not your work should be added. I will add back this source in an "Edition" section. Could you add the page numbers of the whole article (i.e. not simply the pages of of the annexes, but the pages of the whole article including its annexes)?

You have also uploaded your own work on WikiCommons. However, such uploads need to be validated throught the commons:Commons:Volunteer Response Team (a.k.a. OTRS), and you must make sure you possess the full rights (intellectual property) on the text before uploading it to WikiCommons, i.e. that your publisher (Canon Law Society of America) does not hold any right on the text. The book has been released recently, so there is grounds for doubts you have those rights. You must do that relatively quickly, otherwise your text will be deleted from WikiCommons for violating the copyright, as OTRS are necessary to properly establish an individual's identity on WikiCommons. As a sidenote, you wrote that Father Ladislas Orsy, S.J, was the one who produced the text and that he only gave a permission for it to be published ; this means you likely cannot have the copyright for this text and therefore cannot upload it on WikiCommons.

You seem to have trouble following Misplaced Pages's editing standards, so I would suggest you try the Misplaced Pages:ADVENTURE before doing further edits on the main space (main space = outside of talk pages).

Should you have any question, feel free to ask me. Veverve (talk) 17:18, 17 February 2022 (UTC)

Rashism

Note that these files were not added by me, stop dealing with the destruction of the article. I can also undo your edits by unreasonably requiring sources. Thank you.