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Revision as of 13:17, 21 June 2022 editZaniGiovanni (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users7,786 editsNo edit summary← Previous edit Revision as of 16:01, 21 June 2022 edit undoAbrvagl (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users2,000 edits →Statement by AbrvaglNext edit →
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<small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small> <small>''Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 ] and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator. <br />Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.''</small>
====Statement by Abrvagl==== ====Statement by Abrvagl====
Seriously Zani, you could have at least tried to talk to me before dragging me into this unnecessary AE only 9 days after your last report.

1. This page and talk page are in my watchlist. I saw a conversation between two editors and shared my own view on the conversation. How is it Hounding? ] clearly states: {{tq|if done to cause distress, or if accompanied by tendentiousness, personal attacks, or other disruptive behaviour}}, my comment did not mean any of that. it was aimed to help conversation. It is really strange to hear such concerns. If my comment is hounding, what is this then, where you jumped into a discussion with and raising personal remarks about me? I believed you did that with good intentions because I assumed good faith every time you joined discussions like this and expected the same from you. But it seems I shouldn't have.

2. No hounding or else here. Page is on my watch list. It brought my attention because there were recent changes. I actually expanded and improved the article. {{tq|Abrvagl who hardly edited for almost a week,}} - as I mentioned earlier, I had emergency surgery and was having a rest. {{tq|They added a partisan source with extremely partisan language}} - is the official webpage of State Commission of the Republic of Azerbaijan on Prisoners of War, Hostages, and Missing Persons, which is perfectly fine for statistical information about missing persons, especially considering that I correctly attributed it in the article. If you believe that source is not RS for that information, you could have talked to me or at least raise it to RS board.

3. - not sure how me asking you to stop writing personal remarks on the talk pages and informing you that we need to take this case to the dispute resolution is ] and ]. {{tq|Abrvagl was told that Eurasianet is a reliable third-party source, the fact that Abrvagl still pings me to that discussion and demands to answer their essay of a comment where they conclude that;}} I never said that Eurasianet is not reliable. You actually cut the conclusion out of the context which may lead to misunderstanding. Here is the full comment read the paragraphs 9 and 11 about Euroasianet. {{tq|And finally, considering the fact that to my appropriate reply, they're telling me; "You should consider good faith, no-one here sealioning or else.}} - Zani, making personal remarks on the article talk page is not appropriate, I and other editors already told you that many times. If you want to discuss anything unrelated to the article you are always welcome to use the editor's talk page. {{tq|keep in mind that even a third-party user agrees with me}} - this third-party editor did not sufficiently substantiate his comment, as I already told him.


====Statement by (username)==== ====Statement by (username)====

Revision as of 16:01, 21 June 2022

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    Seggallion

    No violation. Johnuniq (talk) 10:29, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.

    Request concerning Seggallion

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Selfstudier (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 18:37, 7 June 2022 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Seggallion (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Case/Palestine-Israel articles 4
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. This edit undoes
    2. this edit of 14:52, 7 June 2022 and
    3. this edit of 16:50, 7 June 2022.
    4. by two different editors.
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any


    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    • Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.

    Here, the response also indicates awareness about reverts

    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    The editor when initially requested to self revert expressed confusion about how one edit was a breach of 1RR. When eventually explained here the response was to blank the page. When given a final chance to self revert here the response was again to blank with edit summary "Did not breach anything. Why threaten like this?".

    This pattern may by now be familiar, an editor reaches 500 edits and immediately jumps into the middle of an ongoing content dispute.

    Re single revert, my understanding is that a revert undoes the actions of an editor and that if a single edit undoes the actions of two editors/edits then that is two reverts. Admittedly, Misplaced Pages:Reverting is an essay but it does say "A single edit may reverse multiple prior edits, in which case the edit constitutes multiple reversions." If that could be confirmed as wrong, please.
    Shrike, I did not make a frivolous filing, I made a mistake in my interpretation of Misplaced Pages:Reverting, nothing more. I even linked and quoted it to Seggallion before I filed. I now stand corrected on that point and Segallion has my apologies for making an incorrect 1R allegation.
    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Here

    Discussion concerning Seggallion

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Seggallion

    Why was my name wrong in some sections here?

    I made one edit to the article and one edit is just one revert.

    I was told by Selfstudier on April 9th to wait until I had 500 edits before more Arab-Israel edits. I had around 400 edits then. https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Seggallion&diff=1081780290&oldid=1081732694

    I followed instructions and waited. At the end of May I saw a requested move advertised on the al-Aqsa article and I voted on it, just like I voted on other advertised moves. I checked before voting that I met the rule.

    The changes to the naming have been opposed by other users too, I have been watching this pair of articles since the requested move.

    I didn't wait until 500 to edit the topic. I was told to wait by Selfstudier after I edited a church in April that he thought was in the topic.

    I also made a request in January to edit an article in topic I was blocked from. https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Talk:Ramla&diff=prev&oldid=1065377343

    In this month I saw the Aqsa move advertised.

    Also fixing errors like

    novellist https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Marie_Linde&diff=prev&oldid=1065211857

    scheluded https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Pedro_Antonio_S%C3%A1nchez&diff=prev&oldid=1065794748

    Borwn https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Abortion_in_Mississippi&diff=prev&oldid=1072564164

    Mississipi, not p but pp, https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=Nate_Dogg&diff=prev&oldid=1072762154

    Is not a game.

    Can someone scrutinize Selfstudier's reverts and threat on my talk page:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Seggallion&diff=1092010968&oldid=1092010433

    https://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Seggallion&diff=1092012794&oldid=1092012058

    I felt under the gun with last one.

    Statement by Nableezy

    That's a single revert, it does not matter how many edits were reverted if it happened in a single revert. However there is blatant extended confirmed permissions gaming, with the overwhelming majority of their first 500 edits being single byte additions and removals. Then their 501st edit is to a restricted topic's requested move here. Curiously, the single byte changes started to pick up steam right around when this happened. nableezy - 18:42, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

    Selfstudier your understanding is wrong. A single edit, or a single set of contiguous edits, is by definition no more than one revert. A single revert can undo multiple edits by multiple contributors. nableezy - 19:56, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

    Iskandar323

    It is a single reversion, but by undoing the work of two other editors, it is also in essence a restoration of a prior version. The basic requirement with any revert, not least a restoration effectively rollbacking edits by multiple other editors, is a fairly fulsome explanation of the reasons why it is being done, and "not neutral" does not really cut it. Reversions of non-vandalistic edits need decent comments. And yes, an editor barely off their 500/30 training wheels wading into this particular domain and immediately boldly reverting with laconic edit comments is of course somewhat eyebrow raising. Iskandar323 (talk) 20:05, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

    @Shrike: Hypothetically speaking, imagining a scenario if you were a WP gamer, would it not make total sense, and in fact be gaming 101, to continue to edit in the areas in which you have built up your first 500 edits, to provide precisely that cause for the pretense of your own innocence? Gaming doesn't stop at 500 edits; on the contrary; that is when the 'game' truly begins. The behaviour is not typified by what it does not include, but as Nableezy noted, what it does include, such as mass single or zero character edits up to 500 and then a launch straight into conflict area disputes. Iskandar323 (talk) 04:59, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

    Statement by Onceinawhile

    I would also like to discuss what can be done about 500/30 gaming. Coming up to 500 edits through mass automated / semi-automated / very minor edits is not consistent with the spirit of the rule. This editor made >350 edits in Jan/Feb this year, by finding and replacing common typos. A useful job of course, but the interest in clean-up edits disappears at 500. Onceinawhile (talk) 20:19, 7 June 2022 (UTC)

    Statement by Shrike

    First of all the premise of this filing is frivolous the filer is experienced enough to understand what revert is. Regrading the gaming it seems that users has continued to do minor edits in other topics contrary to what claimed here so it doesn't seem like gaming to me --Shrike (talk) 04:33, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

    Statement by GizzyCatBella

    Seggallion, could you explain why you didn't sign your comments above and you formatted the links so poorly? You displayed a deep knowlege of the links formating (note "here" added) back in February and you also nicely signed your comment. What happened? - GizzyCatBella🍁 06:40, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Seggallion

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Selfstudier, while I can accept your explanation that you didn't understand what did and did not constitute multiple reverts, editors are permitted to remove pretty much anything from their user talk page if they wish to do so. When they do, it is considered an acknowledgement that they have read and understood whatever they removed, but you should absolutely not be edit warring to restore it there. I do not beyond that see any actionable violations here—I will say that I am not thrilled to see an editor jumping into one of our most difficult and contentious areas right at the 500/30 mark, but as it stands there is no rule against that. If Seggallion plans to continue to edit within that topic, I would advise them to tread very lightly indeed before gaining more experience. But other than those general cautions, I do not see cause to apply any sanctions. Seraphimblade 20:48, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

    Zusty001

    Two edits with the discretionary sanctions alert issued after the first does not warrant a sanction. Zusty001 is advised to discuss issues on article talk and not repeat challenged edits in a topic under discretionary sanction. Johnuniq (talk) 10:38, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.


    Request concerning Zusty001

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Tgeorgescu (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 14:23, 8 June 2022 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Zusty001 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced

    WP:ARBPS and WP:ARBCAM

    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. Violates WP:PSCI through removing all or most WP:RS which discuss Steiner's pseudoscience.
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    • Placed a {{Ds/aware}} template for the area of conflict on their own talk page.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    From the edit summary at they knew they are fighting against WP:CONSENSUS, nevertheless chose to put consensus and experts between scare quotes and chose to claim that the experts have a particular philosophy (So-called). I cannot read the rest of their reasoning since it has been omitted from public record. Anyway, speaking of their summaries from other articles, those are hard to parse and to make sense of. And I have read Western esotericism books in English, I have read parts of Heidegger's Being and Time in English, so it cannot be said that I don't understand obscurantist prose. E.g. I fail to understand what sort of action or message 'pseudoscience' (A term whose meaning remains oblique and occulted, yet treated as monolithic here) is supposed to convey. Seems to be a deepity. Or a Gish gallop.

    What does it mean that the meaning of pseudoscience is oblique? What does it mean that it is occulted? Who treated pseudoscience as monolithic and what's the evidence that they did so?

    The talk page of the article is crammed with explanations about WP:PSCI, so I felt no need of adding extra explanations. The problem with Steiner's fans is that they have a thoroughly in-universe view and no longer know how mainstream science views Steiner. But I once met an important Anthroposophist who was fully aware that the Institute for Beautiful Sciences (Schöne Wissenschaften) sounds completely ridiculous to outsiders. tgeorgescu (talk) 17:42, 10 June 2022 (UTC)

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning Zusty001

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Zusty001

    SeraphimBlade, my reasons were explained essentially in the comments of the relevant edits. If this is not deemed sufficient, and if these comments can be viewed anywhere (It appears cut off in the public view of the edit), then I do not think I should try strenuously to achieve some victory in a litigatory struggle against a user of this site far more prolific and powerful than myself. I would explain myself more elsewhere outside of this context, but here I will, for the most part, simply note that in the wide array of citations attached to the section initially removed by myself, there are a great many in which 'expertise' or authority is simply not there, even in some academic sense. (The latter part may be the more considerable here. I noted the use of Dan Dugan in my original comment as a particularly striking example, whom is also used as a main and positive, or encyclopedic, source for another section of the article which I have not edited.) I do not regret noting such 'expertise' in quotations, here or in my edit. As for the 'anonymous' edits you note, I should say that they are not my own.

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Zusty001

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • Zusty001, a statement from you would probably be helpful here, explaining why you continued to make the edit even if you were aware it lacked consensus. Also, it does appear to me that you edited while logged out to make similar edits ()—I realize that can happen by accident, but it's something to be very careful of, as it can have the appearance of an attempt at sock puppetry. If you would not like to comment here, we'll have to proceed with resolving this without your input or explanation. Seraphimblade 21:04, 14 June 2022 (UTC)

    LearnIndology

    LearnIndology is indefinitely topic banned from all pages and discussions concerning India, Pakistan, and Afghanistan, broadly construed (WP:ARBIPA). Johnuniq (talk) 11:13, 17 June 2022 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.


    Request concerning LearnIndology

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    TrangaBellam (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 09:48, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    LearnIndology (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:ARBIPA
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. Talk:2022_BJP_Muhammad_remarks_controversy#Opinion_of_Dutch_politician - 11 June 2022
      Edit-warring in violation of WP:ONUS.
    2. Talk:Nupur_Sharma_(politician)#Notability - 7 June 2022
      Edit-wars to remove certain content despite opposition by multiple editors (and only one in favor); at last, a longstanding admin had to aware LI, LearnIndology, blanking a relevant and cited section from this article isn't acceptable and Kautilya was entitled to restore them.
    3. Redirecting a longstanding article - 28 March 2022
      I have no qualms against editors unilaterally redirecting articles, as permitted by policy. However I am opposed to misrepresentations in the process; contrary to the edit summary, the article had a news article from Reuters. A cursory search in GBooks or GScholar evidence that the topic has attracted substantial scholarship. The redirect fits to pro-Hindutva POV which deems Cow-belt to be a slang - indeed LI had once sought for speedy deletion on the same grounds.
    4. User_talk:LearnIndology/Archive_4#Serious_warning - 14 January 2022
      Misquotes an author to push POV. Shifts the blame to GSnippets etc.
    5. Talk:Exodus_of_Kashmiri_Hindus/Archive_3#The_Pandit_population - 11 January 2022
      Uses some fringe journal to challenge multiple famed scholars who have been published by Oxford University Press, Cambridge University Press etc. When there ain't any wiggle-room left, comes a strange reply. His shenanigans continue till March '22; see the t/p.
    6. Talk:Raksha_Bandhan#Reason - 25 August 2021
      Uses ridiculously poor sources — an astrologer and a school-level text-book — to edit-war against two editors including me. Their strange replies only compound the issue.
    7. Talk:Religion_of_the_Indus_Valley_Civilization#Attribution - 8 August 2021
      Copy content from different articles to start a new article. Nothing objectionable in such acts except that their copying had selectively omitted all critical remarks which did not pander to a pro-Hindutva POV. My accusations were (later) supported by Joshua Jonathan, a longstanding editor, at Talk:Indus_Valley_Civilisation#Merger_proposal.
    8. Talk:Religion_of_the_Indus_Valley_Civilization#Particular_issues - 9 August 2021
      Claim Jonathan Mark Kenoyer (an expert in the field) to support a particular POV about IVC Swastika being linkable with the Hindu Swastika. I inquire about how exactly Kenoyer supports that claim but they do not expand upon it. As the particular section shows (redrafted by me), Kenoyer states something very different - frankly, the precise opposite.
    9. Diff1 - 8 August 2021
      Choose to insert a POV factoid which is rejected by almost all scholars (see this section). Summarily reverted by Johnbod for failing WP:BALANCE.
    10. Misplaced Pages:Administrators'_noticeboard/3RRArchive437#User:LearnIndology_reported_by_User:Joshua_Jonathan_(Result:_) - 18 July 2021
      Aggressive behavior, dubious usage of sources, and violation of BLP including breaching 3RR. Links provided in the complaint. Upon being brought to the noticeboard, they claimed of a serious misunderstanding! Once again, pushing of a pro-Hindutva POV.
    11. Diff2 - 16 July 2021
      Create a fresh article filled with pro-author (pro-Hindutva) POV. Claims of the book being widely praised are uncritically reproduced from the author himself. More space is allotted for the author's response to various reviewers than for what the reviewers said in the first place!
      See the current version of the article to understand the extent of POV that was pushed in.
    12. Talk:Romila_Thapar#Marxist - 1 February 2021
      WP:POINT, misrepresentation of sources, using poor sources - you name it and you will find it being called out by multiple editors.
    13. Talk:Rigvedic_deities#Vedic_period - 7 December 2020
      Pro-Hindutva POV pushing.
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    1. Date Explanation
    2. Date Explanation
    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    • Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, see the system log linked to above.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    LearnIndology (LI) is not a prolific editor: they are often inactive for weeks and engages in routine anti-vandalism, maintenance tasks etc. This necessitates a scrutiny into their activities across a long span of time, which might be unnecessary otherwise.

    The evidence presented above supports that the losses accrued by letting LI edit in this area — reduction in content accuracy as well as waste of editorial resources in combating his POV-laden activities — outweighs the positives. I wish to emphasize that LI is cautious enough to not run afoul of any bright-line rule but nonetheless, tests the boundaries as evident from the 3RRN example. Multiple established editors — me, Kautilya3, Fowler&Fowler, RegentsPark, Joshua Jonathan, and maybe others — have warned him about NPOV violations but they show little effect.

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Notified

    Discussion concerning LearnIndology

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by LearnIndology

    Nearly all of the diffs are dating back to 2020 and 2021 and concern some usual content disputes and some include misleading claims such that I created this article. I find this reporting to be lacking any sense. Though I would still comment on the recent diffs.

    2022 BJP Muhammad remarks controversy was created over 28 hours after Nupur Sharma (politician) was created. It was being redirected to Nupur Sharma because it was a complete POVFORK created in violation of copyrights per WP:CWW. Just compare these two versions: ,. Only difference was the creation of more sub-sections and some quotefarming, but that was also insignificant.

    The discussion on Talk:2022 BJP Muhammad remarks controversy#Opinion of Dutch politician and Talk:Nupur Sharma (politician)#Notability shows that I am regularly responsive and abiding by the consensus. My edits aren't even violating WP:SYNTH like your recent edits on this page, let alone justifying them like you are doing.

    ARE shouldn't be misused just because you disagree with some of my edits. LearnIndology (talk) 11:21, 11 June 2022 (UTC)

    I hope you don't consider any of my edit to be a 'substantial' only when it is made anywhere in your topics. Anyway, I was not engaging in misrepresentation of sources in January as I described here but only interpreted a snippet without having access but I got the access later and no misrepresentation was found. I haven't used snippets since. My last edit to this subject was in March 2022 where I was only providing information that could be backed with other reliable sources. There was no policy violation there.
    As for your objection to my attempts to redirect a content fork two times, I think you will understand my position better now because you have also attempted to redirect Gyanvapi Mosque controversy two times in a row. I don't disagree with you reverting but the point is that sometimes there are editors who ignore policies on article creation and only care about retaining the article. But I usually let it go and wait for the consensus when others don't agree. LearnIndology (talk) 07:01, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

    @Abecedare: With this message I was saying that either we should keep statements like that of Dutch politicians and others, or we should only keep statements related to the foreign ministry and the main administration. At that time there was no particular criteria set, and selective removal was not helping in setting consensus this is why I only restored the stable version with that regard. This is not mind-boggling because ultimately the consensus supported my view, contrary to the view of those who wanted to only remove the statement of the Dutch politician but keep statements of politicians who are not even notable.

    @Bishonen: There is clearly no doubt that I did a number of mistakes at Romila Thapar dispute in Feb 2021 but I learned a lot from that and have made more than 1,300 edits since. By saying "per discussion" on this edit summary I was talking about this discussion where I had mentioned the sources. While there was a content dispute at the Religion of the IVC article, I was correct with each of my messages there as it can be read here but TrangaBellam's main objection was that the article is a POV fork and should be a redirect. The ultimate consensus was against this view. LearnIndology (talk) 01:16, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

    I note severe misrepresentation of sources by TrangaBellam here. TB cited a diff where I debunked TB's misrepresentation of Hiltebeitel and TB never recognized this misrepresentation. On this discussion, I cited this source which said "seal in the shape of a stepped cross has a swastika motif in the center combining both the stepped cross motif and the well-known swastika design", and Trangabellam asks me "How is Kenoyer supporting your hypothesis?" That means TB never read the source. TrangaBellam has failed to cite this discussion where he was answered with this source and he made no response to that message. Yet TB cites this outdated dispute on this report and pushes the same false claim as if TB was never introduced to the contradictory.
    TrangaBellam is also misrepresenting the writings of Behera when the quote clearly says that "Census figures are quoted to indicate that the community is facing virtual extinction: in 1947 the Pandits constituted 15 percent of the Valley’s population, which fell to 5 percent by 1981, and after the exodus to 0.1 percent." To use this quotation to claim it to be "KP's representation of their own history" but not the existence of a Census figure is just a misrepresenation of source. This misrepresentation comes after another additional verification cited on the same discussion which said "The NHRC reported that the Pandit population in Jammu and Kashmir dropped from 15 percent in 1941 to 0.1 percent during the year."
    Given these 2 instances alone, I am sure that TrangaBellam is clearly not in position to accurately interpret the sources. LearnIndology (talk) 05:37, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
    TrangaBellam you never talked about how "Kenoyer supports a link between Hindu swastika and IVC swastika". You are doing it for the first time on this noticeboard. Your actual message on the talk page was asking "If sources draw distinct links between Hindu Swastika and IVC Swastika", after which I cited this source along with p.10 because it said "Based on comparisons with later uses in South Asia in Buddhist, Jain and Brahmanical rituals, the symbol of the swastika represent order out of chaos. The chaos of the world is divided into four quarters and turned either to the right or the left. Where there is order, there is wealth and profit, and in South Asia, the swastika is associated with good luck and various deities that bring wealth, such as Ganesha and Saraswati." Drawing a link is not the same as being supportive of the hypothesis. LearnIndology (talk) 07:23, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
    What you are quoting now is nothing new since this information already exists on the main article's section since that same day. Can you show me where I objected to this wording? Your recent message still doesn't change that we were talking about sources that are drawing a connection, instead of supporting the specific connection. You can't claim the latter to misrepresent my response. LearnIndology (talk) 08:38, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

    Post-filing statements and responses by TrangaBellam

    • LI, I see that you have not chosen to discuss your mis-representation of sources about the Kashmir Exodus etc., which happened as late as March '22.You stake in about one substantial edit per month, excluding vandalism and routine maintenance; that invokes the necessity to examine your edits from a year ago. Every time you get a warning — Kautilya3 noted in March that he will take you to AE, shall such misrepresentation of source reoccur — you take a break from volatile areas for a couple of months and then start a new mess. Once that becomes too hot to manage, you remain low for another couple of months. This is an obvious gaming of the system because by the time, someone can get substantial evidence of disruption against you, they have become too old.You reverted Onel's redirect of the article and added content. Technically, not a creation but practically it is.My invocation of the content-deletion from 2022 Muhammad controversy concerns your edit-warring under what appears to be quite-spurious grounds, as rightfully held by a completely uninvolved admin. Even if you are right on the specifics, that does not excuse your edit-warring etc.This thread is not about me; if you have issues with my editing, please raise them at an appropriate venue (ANI/AE/..). Thanks, TrangaBellam (talk) 12:39, 11 June 2022 (UTC)
    • Abecedare:
    Re 8:
    • On 9 August 2021, LI claims that Jonathan Mark Kenoyer, an expert on Indus Valley civilization supports that IVC swastikas became Hindu swastikas, an argument commonly found in Hindutva circles.
    • I critique his other sources and ask him to explain how the particular source of Kenoyer supported LI's conclusion. Because the cited pdf did not have anything to such effects.
    • LI's reply is evasive.
    • I knew for certain that this was a fringe argument and doubted that Kenoyer was gullible enough to lend his support to such a fringe claim. Not very surprisingly, I found a source where Kenoyer expressly held that IVC swastikas were appropriated by political and religious leaders of the subcontinent to [claim ties with Hinduism.
    • All in all, again the same pattern of misrepresenting sources until being called out.
    Re 5:
    • I have not mentioned another aspect.
    • LI's second source is a trade-book of considerable repute (Behera; BUP) but once again, LI misrepresents the content. The passage in the book (p. 125) goes:

    • The Kashmiri Pandits provide an important illustration of a community’s attempts to reconstruct history in view of its present political interests. Describing themselves as the original inhabitants of the Valley with a distinct subculture of the purest class of Aryans, the Pandits recount episodes of religious, linguistic, and political persecution by Muslim rulers over the past 650 years. Census figures are quoted to indicate that the community is facing virtual extinction: in 1947 the Pandits constituted 15 percent of the Valley’s population, which fell to 5 percent by 1981, and after the exodus to 0.1 percent.

      (p. 312): Rasgotra argues that 1941 marks the beginning of a statistical assault on the Pandit numbers by the junior local Muslim officials, who underestimated the strength of the Pandits by nearly 10–15 percent For a good account of the politics of numbers, see Alexander Evans, “A Departure from History: Kashmiri Pandits, 1999–2001,” Contemporary South Asia 11, no. 1 (2002): 23–27

    • As is obvious, Behera does not claim that KPs constituted 15% of the population; she notes these observations in the context of KP's representation of their own history.
    LI's latest justification of his usage of Behera only proves my point - I leave it to Bish/Abecedare to determine whether my accusations hold merit or not.
    LI, you didn't debunk anything; I had cited Hiltebeitel (2017). Your insistence that Kenoyer supports a link between Hindu swastika and IVC swastika is amazing - once again, I leave it to Bish/Abecedare to determine whether the quoted line supports such an extrapolation. TrangaBellam (talk) 06:00, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
    LI, you continue to misrepresent Kenoyer by selectively quoting him, misunderstanding him, and engaging in semantic gymnastics. How is " Kenoyer support a link between Hindu swastika and IVC swastika" different to " sources draw distinct links between Hindu Swastika and IVC Swastika"?
    The very preceding line goes, owever, its specific meaning may have been quite different in each world region. The very next paragraph has, The swastika is not associated with any single religious tradition and was widely used by many different cultures which are in no way linked to Aryan traditions or religion. These examples should be taken as a cautionary note to avoid projecting modern meaning onto ancient symbols without taking into account cultural, ideological and social contexts. In the lines you quote, Kenoyer speculates a possible meaning of Swastika in the IVC culture based on its meanings in later S. Asian traditions but also warns several times about the pitfalls of such an approach; obviously he does not "draw any distinct links between them". More interestingly, as currently cited in the article, Kenoyer notes Hindu politicians of having appropriated IVC artefacts which evidences that your conclusions were obviously wrong.
    Have the last word but remember the law of holes. TrangaBellam (talk) 07:43, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
    @Abecedare:, if you need more evidence, see this edit at Lohri during Jan' 22. A factoid about Lohri being dedicated to gods Indra, Agni, Surya and Lakshmi was introduced at the second line (!) of the lead sourced from a NON-HISTRS. This used to have a surreptitious presence at the infobox before LI jumped in.
    Coincidentally or otherwise, scholars (Berti et al; consult works on ABISY) have documented Hindutva-tinted historians to have made efforts in appropriating all sorts of folk-festivals under a pan-Hindu banner and reify a Brahminic origin story while rejecting the multiplicity of subaltern legends that usually surround them. TrangaBellam (talk) 18:16, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
    Fwiw, if LI is T-Banned from India, that will not allow him to edit nine out of the ten articles. Culture of Kashmir, Srinagar, Kalash People, Kashmiris, Exodus of Kashmiri Hindus, Religion of the Indus Valley Civilization, Religion in the Punjab, Himachal Pradesh, and Rohit Sardana - everything will be off limit. Himalayas will be a borderline case depending on the content of edits.
    Even if a narrow topic ban concerning "politics, history, and culture of S. Asia" (or something like that) is imposed, the same situation prevails roughly. TrangaBellam (talk) 18:41, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

    Statement by Vanamonde

    Responding to Abecedare's ping. I do not recall whether I have interacted with LI in a non-administrative capacity. I'm traveling and have limited internet, so I cannot research it either; so I'm posting here, out of an abundance of caution. I find numerous diffs here to be seriously concerning. This diff (The Mughal Harem) is appalling; in an experienced editor, that alone would be something I'd recommend sanctions for. The double standards on display here (Nupur Sharma's remarks) equally so. I recall some of the dispute about links between the IVC and Hinduism; the diffs here substantiate my memory that LI was more interested in digging up any source that supported what he wanted to see, rather than dispassionately summarizing the sources. A similar problem is evident here (Raksha Bandhan); I would guess, though I cannot be sure, that LI began be googling the sentence he wished to add to the article, rather than by reading the best sources about the subject. Given that this is a long-term issue, with innumerable warnings along the way, a TBAN seems very necessary. I see the crux of the issue being the application of the labels "Hindu" and "Indian" to various aspects of culture and history; but I don't see a clean way to delineate a TBAN around those. I believe any of the proposed TBANs ought to work, but my recommendation would be "history and politics within ARBIPA". I don't think the line around history is very fuzzy in this case; conversely, the Indian-not-Indian debate has been a problem area, and I suspect it'd lead to more wikilawyering. 22:01, 16 June 2022 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning LearnIndology

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • I'll comment on some stuff from 2021, acknowledging TrangaBellam's point that LearnIndology edits with so many gaps that it's reasonable to collect diffs from a longish time period to show a pattern. I find TB's links at 11 (July 2021) and 12 (February 2021) very egregious, but unfortunately I'd better leave analysis of the more recent examples to, hopefully, some admin or admins better read in Indian history. They're too wide-ranging for me to be sure of my footing. Anyway.
    • Re point 11: LearnIndology's editing in July 2021 of The Mughal Harem, a book by historian K. S. Lal, is eye-popping. (Actual diff, as opposed to revision, is here.) LI points out above that they didn't create the article — no, technically not. Somebody else (an IP) wrote most of the text back in 2017. But LI re-created it by reverting the redirect to K. S. Lal, stating "Per discussion, will expand more" in the edit summary. Per what discussion, one wonders - there was nothing on talk at the time, unless LI refers to this post from 2007 by a sock. Was that indeed the discussion, LI? Nor did any further expansion happen. The thus recreated article is an obnoxious piece of promotion. In it, the author, K. S. Lal, gets to (alone) describe the books reception — and describe it how? By quoting "touching" letters the author has received from other scholars. To me, as somebody who works in academe, those letters sound more like standard polite thank-you notes for a gift copy of a book that one can't really praise: "I am quite aware of the years of research that has gone into your work". Then a "dismissive" review of the book is briefly mentioned without specifics (why and how did the reviewer dismiss it?), only to be dismissed in turn by K.S Lal, who again has the floor and says what he thinks of the review. Amazing. Nobody except Lal himself is actually quoted in the article, in the state LI left it in. It's crude pro-Hindutva POV at its finest, and I'd be interested to see LI defend it.
    • Re point 12: It's very interesting to compare LI's efforts to remove "right wing Hindutva" from the lead of Koenraad Elst, a Hindutva promoter, (with edit warring) while simultaneously insisting (with edit warring) on adding "left wing Marxist" to the lead of Romila Thapar, a much-awarded Indian historian. (And don't call Joshua Jonathan "honey", LI, do you mind??) In the discussions re Elst , and Thapar , LI defends his removals in Elst's article with "it is best to discuss the nature of an author's work in the article rather than declaring them as some ist in the very first line" at 12:11 UTC, and six hours later he argues for adding leftist and Marxist to the very first line of Romila Thapar. It's the very definition of tendentiousness and WP:POINT trolling. Bishonen | tålk 20:42, 15 June 2022 (UTC).
    My review of evidence presented by TrangaBellam. Abecedare (talk) 17:20, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
    • For now, I am reviewing the evidence listed by TB and jotting down my notes. Will weigh in on the need for any AE action once I have finished the review, which may not be in the current session. Here goes:
    1. Re point 1: Edit warring to retain a Dutch politician's statement while arguing that statements of this sort should be removed is mind-boggling. Similar to the pointy and tendentious editing issue Bishonen mentions above.
    2. re point 2: Discussing the extent to which a recent controversy should be discussed in a biography versus a separate article is reasonable. Blanking the new article and, later, most of the related summary from the bio (twice) is not. The admonishment by Amakuru is on point.
    3. re point 3: Given that nobody has reverted their redirect, or otherwise objected to it, in over two months, I wouldn't hold this edit against LI and would regard it just as the B in WP:BRD
    4. re point 4: Indefensible and this is not an isolated instance of misrepresentation of scholarly sources (see my note re point 12).
    5. re point 5: Yes, the source LI was citing was of poor quality compared to the ones already used in the article but since they dropped the issue once this was pointed to them, I wouldn't make too big a deal of this in itself. Caveats: (1) I have only reviewed "The Pandit population" section of the discussion, and (2) I can understand that even relatively minor annoyances can add up to be disruptive if page regulars have to address them at length each time a wrong-minded objection to the article is raised. So, if there are other specific diffs or (short) discussion segment related to this article that i should look at, let me know.
      Update: Agree with TB that LI misinterpreted and saw/provided insufficient context when citing Behara in this edit. Again, by itself, this could be explained by genuine misunderstanding or non-nuanced reading of the source.
    6. re point 6: The use of generic Google Book finds to support content one wishes to add is not good, but far too common to be sanctionable by itself.
    7. re point 7: As Joshua Jonathan noted It's telling that this page is (was) not an elaborated version of the info found at t he IVC-page, but a selective choice of bits and pieces which seem to support IVC-origins of Hinduism. This is pure POV-pushing!
    8. re point 8: @TrangaBellam: can you provide the specific diff where LI claims Kenoyer supports the particular POV? I read the "Particular issues" section of the talkpage but possibly missed the LI edit in the mass of words and links.
      Update: Setting aside later works that LI may not have seen, in the cited source Kenoyer (p. 12) is, at best, non-committal about the whether IVC-Vedic swastika use were linked, and LI stretches what the source says in citing it here.
    9. re point 9: The addition would not be a big deal in itself. Less innocuous when added to the accumulating evidence of LI pushing a particular POV, particularly considering the contents placement in the lede.
    10. re point 10: TK
      Update: The edits linked at the ANEW report are clear POV-pushing BLP violations and this response to the warning about edit-warring is clear trolling... only leavened by LI's admission of fault, albeit when facing a threat of a block.
    11. re point 11: covered by Bishonen, whose analysis I concur with.
    12. re point 12: covered by Bishonen, whose analysis I concur with. But I'll note that I checked the first source cited by LI to label Romila Thapar a "left wing Marxist" and found that it does no such thing! The article does not even include the word "left" or "wing" and the only place it talks about Marxist history is when it says, She also examines critically D. D. Kosambi's contribution to Indian history. She praises, on the one hand, Kosambi's successful attempt to change the paradigm of writing Indian history by adding Marxist economic and social dimensions to it. On the other hand, she exposes the limitations of his anthropological and historical assumptions and, more importantly, the inadequacy of his Marxist theory. I read the whole article to make sure I was not missing some nuance but can only conclude that LI blatantly misrepresented Wagle to push a POV at the BLP.
    13. re point 13: TK
      Update: Routine POV pushing that is not too uncommon at these pages; not too surprising to see LI, who was at that point a (relatively) new editor, make the arguments they did. But the last comment is noteworthy since it explicitly lays out the POV that we see reflected in several of the more recent problematic edits discussed above, Maybe you aren't a practicing Hindu, but I am. I recite Gayatri mantra (Rig Vedic mantra) every day, I chant the mantra of Mitra every morning. Yajna and Homa are performed periodically in our home. Maybe you don't follow these simple Vedic practices but the majority of Hindus do.... And about Lingam, I am proud to follow the culture of the Indus Valley civilization as well.
    I'll cover the remaining evidence in a later session (may take me a day to get to it) and add my concluding remarks at that point. Abecedare (talk) 00:01, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
    PS: Finished review of the remaining pieces of evidence and responses by TB and LI. My updates (marked as such) have been added to the original list. Abecedare (talk) 15:39, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
    • Response to LI's coment above: tit-for-tat battleground arguments of the sort "if you call X right-wing, I'll label Y left-wing Marxist" or "if you include the Afghan spokesperson's statement, I'll include the Dutch politician's" is exactly what WP:POINT warns against.
    • Based on my review of the evidence, I see (usually) polite but persistent POV pushing, sometime involving (possibly good faith) misjudgment of source quality and content, and sometime outright misrepresentation. While individually, several of the transgressions are excusable (note the number of times I ended up using the qualifier "in itself" in my notes above), the overall pattern and the BLP violations are not. At a minimum, I would suggest a topic ban from all articles and discussions related to Indian religions, history and politics, which would still leave LI free to edit 7 of the 10 articles they have edited most often. Note though, that on a spot check of the first article on the list, I found this edit which changed the lede sentence from The culture of Kashmir is a diverse blend and highly influenced by Indian, Persian as well as Central Asian cultures to The culture of Kashmir is part of Indian culture..., which reflects a similar nationalistic POV pushing; see also , , , , etc. So possibly a TBan from all India-related topics may be needed. Pinging @Bishonen, RegentsPark, Doug Weller, Vanamonde93, SpacemanSpiff, and El C: who admin in this subject area for input. Abecedare (talk) 17:20, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
    • I agree a sanction is needed. Limiting it to religion, history and politics is the kind of specificity that invites edge cases and arguments about grey zones. To be constantly asking oneself 'What exactly is politics?', or 'Where does religion end and discussion of the architecture of a temple begin?' would make for difficult and anxiety-provoking editing for LearnIndology. For admins, it would be harder and more timeconsuming to watch and adjudicate. Also, it's apparent from your diffs from Culture of Kashmir, Abecedare, that nationalist and anti-Islam edits can be inserted just fine in, as it might be, an article about culture. For those reasons, I lean towards making it simply a T-ban from Indian topics. Bishonen | tålk 21:34, 16 June 2022 (UTC).
    • Abecedare, thanks very much for your comprehensive and clear review. I would tend to agree that a topic ban is necessary here, and very much agree that making it too narrow is likely to lead to bickering over what exactly is covered by it. I would more lean toward a ban from Indian topics, or the ARBIPA topic area in general. Seraphimblade 23:37, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
    • While we wait for further input, I just want to ask that nobody come in to close this with an (IMO useless) three-month T-ban. It needs to be indefinite, so that LI can't just wait it out and start editing again without having learned anything. The advantage of an indef isn't that it would necessarily be very long, but that the editor would have to demonstrate competence and good will in other areas/other projects, and to write an appeal that makes some undertakings for the future. Do other people agree? Bishonen | tålk 08:20, 17 June 2022 (UTC).

    73.158.47.129

    Blocked; nothing more to do --Guerillero 08:41, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.


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    Request concerning 73.158.47.129

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Mhawk10 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 19:15, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    73.158.47.129 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Arbitration motion regarding HazelBasil and SquareInARoundHole
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 12 June 2022 This IP claimed to be HazelBasil and to be aware of their being blocked, but participated in an AfD about Ashley Gjøvik.
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any
    1. 11 February 2022 for comments and conduct made both on- and off-wiki, HazelBasil is indefinitely blocked from editing Misplaced Pages (see also: block log)
    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    • Mentioned by name and sanctioned in the Arbitration Committee's motion linked to above.
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    The IP editor claims to be the article subject, but the article subject is blocked from using Misplaced Pages. This appears to be a case of block evasion. — Ⓜ️hawk10 (talk) 19:15, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

    @Tamzin: Thank you for your note. While I did not include this on my initial report, I think there's evidence that we can rule out this being an imposter. Her disclosed Twitter account has tweeted (archive link) about the incident in a way that confirms that the IP's claim to be the ArbCom-blocked Misplaced Pages user is authentic. I don't know that this is actionable in any way, but I'm noting this here for posterity sake as it's basically confirmed sockpuppetry at this point. — Ⓜ️hawk10 (talk) 17:04, 13 June 2022 (UTC)


    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    19:17, 12 June 2022

    Discussion concerning 73.158.47.129

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    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by 73.158.47.129

    Hello, I posted on a discussion page that was directly about me, and immediately identified myself and the ban. As for the ban, I was never told why I was banned other than "offline & online conduct." I was never even told I was even being investigated. I had no notice negative action would be taken against me. In fact i had reported misconduct against me, and the investigation apparently pivoted to *me* at some point. I was given no warnings, ever. My account was in use for over a decade with no prior warnings & only praise. There was no specific ban/block before a wider ban/block, there was no temporary ban before an indefinite ban. was never provided an explanation of why I was banned or how to appeal, or if I could appeal. I was told I was banned from editing, but it was unclear if that meant only editing articles or if that also applied to administrative matters, like an article deletion discussion. The order was vague and overbroad, and I've struggled to interpret it. It does seem quite unfair to prevent me from weighing in on a deletion discussion about the article about me, without explicitly telling me the ban applies to administration discussions as well as articles. In fact, I was given notice and this text box to edit as part of this enforcement notice, which is confusing if I'm supposed to be banned. Why would I get notice or an opportunity to provide input, if i was prohibited from providing input? I worry that I'm violating the ban again by even responding now here. 73.158.47.129 (talk) 19:32, 12 June 2022 (UTC)

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning 73.158.47.129

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    • IP blocked 1 week for either block evasion or impersonation. Can be reblocked for longer if it proves static. -- Tamzin (she/they) 21:55, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
      @Mhawk10: Yeah, the "or impersonation" was mostly to save myself the time of investigating when it was blockable either way. I agree that that off-wiki statement is dispositive here. -- Tamzin (she/they) 21:47, 13 June 2022 (UTC)

    Спидвагона

    Blocked as a sock --Guerillero 08:24, 16 June 2022 (UTC)
    The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.


    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Спидвагона

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    Nableezy (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 03:32, 13 June 2022 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Спидвагона (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    WP:A/I/PIA

    Extended confirmed restriction

    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 00:51, 13 June 2022 (UTC) ""
    2. 21:16, 12 June 2022 (UTC) ""
    3. 18:03, 12 June 2022 (UTC) ""
    4. 17:01, 12 June 2022 (UTC) "Shut up"
    5. 16:12, 12 June 2022 (UTC) "Unrelated. Sources don't mention Kook even once. This is not an article on Kahane. Also bad grammar in caption and unexplained removal of picture. Daveout already took responsibility for edit but Nableezy reverted him with some incoherent edit summary that appears to agree with him anyway. Stop disrupting."


    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any

    N/A

    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)

    N/A as a general sanction, but informed here. pretty obviously a sock account, but no matter, should be blocked as an account whose single purpose is to violate an arbitration restriction.

    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    Every single edit by this user since registering has been a violation of the extended-confirmed restriction.

    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Notified

    Discussion concerning Спидвагона

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Спидвагона

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Спидвагона

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.

    Abrvagl

    This request may be declined without further action if insufficient or unclear information is provided in the "Request" section below.
    Requests may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs (not counting required information), except by permission of a reviewing administrator.

    Request concerning Abrvagl

    User who is submitting this request for enforcement
    ZaniGiovanni (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log) 13:17, 21 June 2022 (UTC)
    User against whom enforcement is requested
    Abrvagl (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log)

    Search CT alerts: in user talk history • in system log

    Sanction or remedy to be enforced
    Misplaced Pages:ARBAA2
    Diffs of edits that violate this sanction or remedy, and an explanation how these edits violate it
    1. 29 May 2022 - WP:HOUNDING and "jumping" into a discussion between me and another user
    2. 20 June 2022 - WP:HOUNDING hours after my edit
    3. 21 June 2022 - Possible WP:PACT and WP:GAMING violations, further explanation below
    Diffs of previous relevant sanctions, if any


    If discretionary sanctions are requested, supply evidence that the user is aware of them (see WP:AC/DS#Awareness and alerts)
    • Alerted about discretionary sanctions in the area of conflict in the last twelve months, on 26 January 2022
    Additional comments by editor filing complaint

    I'm following up on this as I find Abrvagl is still being problematic and needs AE's attention. The first diff is a WP:HOUNDING by them, where they randomly "jumped" into a discussion between me and another user. This confused me at the time but I tried to not pay attention to it. However, because of their recent repeated hounding, I couldn't just restrain myself and ignore it; after my edits yesterday in Garadaghly, Nagorno-Karabakh, Abrvagl who hardly edited for almost a week, made this edit in the article among others, hours after me. They added a partisan source with extremely partisan language , which isn't an improvement and shouldn't have been added. This kind of behavior with hounding is unpleasant to me and discourages me as an editor.

    Third diff; some time after the previous AE case, they left this comment in the same discussion, which I believe breaches WP:PACT and WP:GAMING and I'll explain why shortly; considering the fact that Talk:2020_Ganja_missile_attacks#The_missile_attacks_happened_one_week_after_Azerbaijan_began discussion was linked in that previous AE case and Abrvagl was told that Eurasianet is a reliable third-party source, the fact that Abrvagl still pings me to that discussion and demands to answer their essay of a comment where they conclude that;

    • "Saying that bombardments of civilian areas of Ganja, which resulted in the death of civilians, was in response to Stepanakert civilian areas bombardment, which also resulted in the death of civilians, is an unsourced attempt to justify war crimes and insert of the wartime ethnic retribution logic into article. It is gross violation of WP:WEIGHT/WP:Neutral and there no place for that in Misplaced Pages."

    And finally, considering the fact that to my appropriate reply, they're telling me; "You should consider good faith, no-one here sealioning or else.. Please also keep in mind that even a third-party user agrees with me on the talk page ZaniGiovanni (talk) 13:17, 21 June 2022 (UTC)


    Notification of the user against whom enforcement is requested

    Discussion concerning Abrvagl

    Statements must be made in separate sections. They may not exceed 500 words and 20 diffs, except by permission of a reviewing administrator.
    Administrators may remove or shorten noncompliant statements. Disruptive contributions may result in blocks.

    Statement by Abrvagl

    Seriously Zani, you could have at least tried to talk to me before dragging me into this unnecessary AE only 9 days after your last report.

    1. 29 May 2022 This page and talk page are in my watchlist. I saw a conversation between two editors and shared my own view on the conversation. How is it Hounding? WP:HOUNDING clearly states: if done to cause distress, or if accompanied by tendentiousness, personal attacks, or other disruptive behaviour, my comment did not mean any of that. it was aimed to help conversation. It is really strange to hear such concerns. If my comment is hounding, what is this then, where you jumped into a discussion with +1,879 bytes of text and raising personal remarks about me? I believed you did that with good intentions because I assumed good faith every time you joined discussions like this and expected the same from you. But it seems I shouldn't have.

    2. 20 June 2022 No hounding or else here. Page is on my watch list. It brought my attention because there were recent changes. I actually expanded and improved the article. Abrvagl who hardly edited for almost a week, - as I mentioned earlier, I had emergency surgery and was having a rest. They added a partisan source with extremely partisan language - is the official webpage of State Commission of the Republic of Azerbaijan on Prisoners of War, Hostages, and Missing Persons, which is perfectly fine for statistical information about missing persons, especially considering that I correctly attributed it in the article. If you believe that source is not RS for that information, you could have talked to me or at least raise it to RS board.

    3. 21 June 2022 - not sure how me asking you to stop writing personal remarks on the talk pages and informing you that we need to take this case to the dispute resolution is WP:PACT and WP:GAMING. Abrvagl was told that Eurasianet is a reliable third-party source, the fact that Abrvagl still pings me to that discussion and demands to answer their essay of a comment where they conclude that; I never said that Eurasianet is not reliable. You actually cut the conclusion out of the context which may lead to misunderstanding. Here is the full comment read the paragraphs 9 and 11 about Euroasianet. And finally, considering the fact that to my appropriate reply, they're telling me; "You should consider good faith, no-one here sealioning or else. - Zani, making personal remarks on the article talk page is not appropriate, I and other editors already told you that many times. If you want to discuss anything unrelated to the article you are always welcome to use the editor's talk page. keep in mind that even a third-party user agrees with me - this third-party editor did not sufficiently substantiate his comment, as I already told him.

    Statement by (username)

    Result concerning Abrvagl

    This section is to be edited only by uninvolved administrators. Comments by others will be moved to the sections above.
    Misplaced Pages:Arbitration/Requests/Enforcement: Difference between revisions Add topic