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This Quillette has been mentioned by a media organization: Libby Emmons (5 November 2019). "Quillette is at the centre of a Misplaced Pages edit war". The Post Millennial.

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Edits to remove basic 'blank slate' definition

Two editors (one being a now banned sock-puppet) have now undone my edit which included the very brief definition of Blank Slate as "the theory of human development, which assumes individuals are largely products of nurture, not nature" – which came from the original source and is a very common term in science and psychology. See here, here and here. It is appropriate to be included in that quote for the reader. I do not know why two editors have attempted to remove it when it's a very basic term, and was a popular ideology in the 20th century. There was entire book named after the term: The Blank Slate, or read about David Reimer who was famously castrated and turned into a woman in infancy due to blank slatism, and raised as a girl under the belief his parents could socialise him into a girl. I find it highly unusual that two editors have attempted to remove this definition from the article when they openly express the fact they do not know what it means (see this edit in which the editor writes: "tabula rasa is very different to what ever this "blank slate orthodoxy" is that Lehmann is talking about")... In reality: blank slatism is almost identical to tabula rasa and had a fine definition from Politico. Baconundrum then went and posted an 'edit warring' notice on my talk page, completely ignoring the WP:AGF guidelines and the definition of 'edit warring' which requires three successive edits in 24 hours. 'Blank slatism' is a basic concept, defined appropriately and briefly by Politico, and is important to include in the sentence. It should not be removed based on the opinions of editors or their misunderstanding of the concept. I have read a Quillette article probably 3 times in my entire life because they do sometimes happen to post good opinions from established experts in psychology/science (I personally think what Lehmann says to be at times ridiculous), but I won't tolerate editors deleting basic definitions because they WP:IDONTLIKEIT. This is my line of knowledge. I always try to to WP:AGF, and I am sorry if this message 'seems' grumpy, but it does get tiring when editors remove perfectly cited content for unbeknownst reasons. Note that my edits are actually in the field of science and psychology, while others clearly have a more political interest. That is fine, but don't bring your views into editing. I am going to alert Crossroads who can hopefully check this for me. Sxologist (talk) 23:01, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

Hey Sxologist, sorry if I've offended you, please stop taking things so personally. You were edit warring, it's not a personal attack and I certainly do assume good faith - no hard feeling, hey. I understand you are fairly new to this, so I'll explain...be BOLD when making edits, if someone disagrees they REVERT your edit, if you really think your edit should stand you take it to talk, like we are doing now and 'DISCUSS as per Misplaced Pages:BOLD, revert, discuss cycle. Bacondrum (talk) 02:01, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Passive aggressive and patronizing comments are not necessary. You have previously deleted your account in a huff after constant warnings and criticisms over your ideologically motivated edits. You even wrote: "I've no respect for this place or the people that run it. I will never be returning". Does that sound like someone who respects Misplaced Pages policy? WP rules don't bend to your liking when you feel like it. I'm glad other editors could see that. Sxologist (talk) 02:57, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

In my view, it really doesn't matter what we think 'blank slate' means, or how it's related to 'tablua rasa'; all that matters is that our RS says that it's the theory that "individuals are largely products of nurture, not nature". Since that's what the reliable source says, there's no doubt that the claim is verified. So the claim must be that it's undue, is that right Bacondrum? I'm fine with including it, and it seems sort of helpful to include it. But I'd like to hear what the reason was for removal. Shinealittlelight (talk) 23:32, 22 June 2020 (UTC)

On the face of it I don't see the harm in having the statement and can see why it would be useful to the reader. I don't feel strongly about it but absent an explanation why we would want to remove it I'm in favor of inclusion. Springee (talk) 01:14, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

A brief explanation of what "blank slate" means in this context is due. Jweiss11 (talk) 01:52, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

I think the quote is undue, but I'm not diametrically opposed to its inclusion. What I'm really not okay with is the wikilink. We can't be sure what she means by blank slate orthodoxy, What is "blank slate orthodoxy"? Sounds like some personal ideological stance to me. I don't think we should be wikilinking within the quote in such a manner, it's like putting words in her mouth...we are giving meaning to her quote that is not explicitly stated by her. Tabula rasa and "blank slate orthodoxy" don't necessarily seem to me to be the same thing. Bacondrum (talk) 02:01, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

I don't really care whether we include the wikilink. But I will note that WP redirects 'blank slate' to the tabula rasa article, and I see no reason she doesn't mean what everyone means by it. Moreover, our tabula rasa article says "Generally, proponents of the tabula rasa theory also favour the "nurture" side of the nature versus nurture debate" which suggests that the theory as explained at that article is exactly what our source identifies as what Lehmann meant by it. Shinealittlelight (talk) 02:12, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Exactly. Lehmann is educated in psychology; it's perfectly clear what she means when she refers to "blank slate orthodoxy". As is written here: "Blank slate is the epistemological thesis that individual human beings are born with no built-in mental content". Additionally, the opening paragraph on the Wiki article for Steven Pinker's book The Blank Slate states that "the author makes a case against tabula rasa models in the social sciences, arguing that human behavior is substantially shaped by evolutionary psychological adaptations". When she says 'Blank slate orthodoxy' she is referring to a dominant view in sociology that we are born with brains like playdough which are set entirely by our upbringing. It's been discredited for decades, yet is still dominant in SOME schools of thought. Anyone who has studied psychology, genetics or biology is utterly frustrated with it's dominance... twins who are raised apart in radically different environments are remarkably similar. It doesn't even matter IF it is an orthodoxy or not because her opinion stays in quote marks. The definition of 'blank slatism', however, is well established and correctly outlined by Politico. Bacondrum, I'm going to assume good faith and believe you have a misunderstanding of the term and concept. Sxologist (talk) 02:18, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

We definitely should explain to the reader what is meant by the phrase "blank slate", and the Politico source does so in the context of Quillette, so I'm not seeing any good reason not to do so. I would put the phrase as "a theory of human development which assumes individuals are largely products of nurture, not nature", including that wikilink. Wikilinking to tabula rasa may also be good. Note, too, SarahMinuit was a sockpuppet, and as such, their opinion counts for zilch, and they can be reverted by anyone for any reason per WP:Block evasion. Crossroads 02:34, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

 Done: I have included the sentence with that structure. Thank you Crossroads. Sxologist (talk) 02:49, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

And I accept the consensus. Thanks. Bacondrum (talk) 02:54, 23 June 2020 (UTC)

Possible additional sources

General:

• Those People We Tried to Cancel? They’re All Hanging Out Together (NYT, Nov 2019)
• Villains (Columbia Journalism Review, Fall 2019)
• People keep trying to bring back phrenology (The Outline, Oct 2019)

On that list of journalists:

• Quillette’s “Antifa Journalists” List Could’ve Gotten Me Killed (newrepublic, Jun 2019)
• Right-wing publications launder an anti-journalist smear campaign (Columbia Journalism Review, Jun 2019)

More Archie Carter:

• Hello fellow Marxist-Leninists, I’m Archie Carter (The Outline, Aug 2019)
• Quillette loves hoaxes that embarrass the left. Here’s how “Archie Carter” hoaxed Quillette. (Vox, Aug 2019)
• Exclusive: We Found Archie Carter (Jacobin, Aug 2019)
• Quillette Duped by Left-Wing Hoaxer Posing as Communist Construction Worker (The Daily Beast, Aug 2019)

On Yang (pretty minor):

• A Democratic presidential candidate’s curious alt-right fandom (The Outline, Mar 2019)
• Andrew Yang and the Political Narratives of Asian-Americans (newyorker, Oct 2019)
• Andrew Yang and His Gang (The American Conservative, Mar 2019)
• Andrew Yang and the Model Minority Myth (Current Affairs, Dec 2019)

On transgender issues and Helen Joynce:

• Editor’s history of calling trans people ‘frauds’ shines light on Economist’s transphobic tweet (Daily Dot, Mar 2019)
• Can Lesbians Have Penises? (National Review, Jul 2019)
• ‘Live Your Truth’ (National Review, Jan 2019)

On Cancel Culture:

• How Non-Existent Cancel Culture Works at Princeton and Elsewhere (Reason, Jul, 2020)

Huh. Amazon shared a Quillette post:

• Why Amazon pays warehouse employees to tweet about their jobs (Vox, Aug 2019)
• America Should Thank Amazon for Giving Workers the Chance to ‘Chant Prime Day Slogans’ (Intelligencer, Jul 2019)
• Amazon Says Those Weird Brand Ambassador Accounts Defending The Company Are Run By Real Employees (Buzzfeed News, Aug 2019)

Jlevi (talk) 01:34, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Notice: General reliability discussion at RSN

For editors watching this page, there is a discussion regarding the reliability of Quillette at RSN ] Springee (talk) 12:20, 12 August 2020 (UTC)

Political pigeonholing in the lead section

Please can we have some well argued references for the alignment of this publication (as opposed to just lifting unexplained tagging from opinion pieces). If it's libertarian, that's fine but all we have at the moment are unexplained assertions which might just reflect incorrect assumptions of the journalist or them lifting it from Misplaced Pages. Until then I suggest we leave the various perspectives on it's position to the main body. Conan The Librarian (talk) 04:25, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

The lead is generally intended to be a summary of the body. Feel free to explain why these sources do not meet WP:RS if you wish, but Misplaced Pages summarizes source, so it's not enough to imply that they might be incorrect. Grayfell (talk) 07:33, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

• That is how it is generally described per the sources in the article; since Quillette is (per the rest of the article) mostly notable for aggressive culture-war broadsides, obviously citing descriptions of its political position are important; it isn't our place as an encyclopedia to debate whether that description is "well-argued" or not. That said, I've added a few more sources that also describe it as conservative (one in the article already does so.) --Aquillion (talk) 08:07, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

The profile of Quillette in CHE presents a more nuanced take. It says ...you can see why detractors might peg Quillette as reactionary conservatism for the Ph.D. set...yet Quillette has lately shown a willingness to rankle its core constituency... It then goes on to talk about criticisms in Quillette of Dave Rubin, Jordan Peterson, and the so-called IDW, as well as a piece in about transgender athletes that doesn’t fit snugly into a political category. Shinealittlelight (talk) 16:41, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

I agree with the concern regarding pigeon holing article subjects. I'm OK with the attributed libertarian label in the lead as the body supports that. I'm not OK with the newly added conservative in the lead as the article body doesn't support that. The word "conservative" doesn't appear in the body so adding it to the lead reads as a POV push rather than a summary. If the sources supporting "conservative" are good then I would move them to the reception section where we can expand on what they say. Shinealittlelight makes the case that the description is more nuanced. In that case that material should also go in the body and the lead, when offering the attributed labels, should explain the delta between typical conservative/libertarian etc and what Quillette is. Many of Quillette's topics are not really typical conservative so much as trying to offer a contrarian view illustrating the gray vs B&W nature of many discussion topics. Springee (talk) 18:18, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Looking at the 3 sources to call Quillette conservative: I wouldn't accept TAPA since it doesn't focus on Quillette. This is a typical case where we have a source that offers a quick description "conservative" without justification. As such it's a weak source for Misplaced Pages to say "Quillette" is described as conservative. The bulk of that article isn't about Quillette at all but rather about a field of academic study. The Outline is only a 4 year old source. Does it have weight? Where does it call Quillette "conservative"? The final source is behind a paywall. The abstract doesn't support the claim. Absent additional justification "conservative" should be removed from the lead. Springee (talk) 18:28, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

• I think the sourcing for both conservative and libertarian are weak and neither claim should be in the lede, these claims can be justified for inclusion as attributed opinion in the body, IMO. Bacondrum (talk) 20:17, 10 December 2020 (UTC)

Sources biased to the left

All sources I checked from media bias charts are leftist, as one can easily guess from the POV of the article. The following paragraph would be a more neutral description of Quillette. I hope that somebody could rewrite the article using neutral sources and a neutral POV. Before that, the most extreme POV parts should be removed. --Forp (talk) 15:43, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

According to Media Bias Chart 7.0, Quillette is almost as reliable and as close to center as Vox and FiveThirtyEight, more than CNN. This sets it near the boundary of "fact reporting" and "analysis or high variation in reliability", and it "Skews Right" (mildest of the three "right" categories). Although Lehmann calls Quillette centrist, also AllSides categorized it as "Lean Right", because today classical liberalism is more often considered right than left.

Yes, and Media Bias/Fact Check says Quillette is unreliable https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/quillette/, as does Misplaced Pages https://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Reliable_sources/Perennial_sources#Quackwatch. Reliability of sources is what we look at not WP:BIASED. We all have bias, yes even you - bias is irrelevant. Reliability is what counts on Misplaced Pages. Media bias aggregate sites are rightfully given no consideration, just like political compass and other such gimmicks. Bacondrum 20:17, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

MBFC is also an unreliable source per WP:RSP - same as Ad Fontes. AllSides is not listed and I am not familiar with it. I do not believe this article warrants a POV tag. Crossroads 21:36, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

References

1. "Media Bias Chart 7.0 January 2021 Edition". Ad Fontes Media. January 2021.
2. "Quillette News Media". AllSides. January 2021.

SYNTH

This is WP:Synthesis. Do not combine material from multiple sources to reach or imply a conclusion not explicitly stated by any source....If one reliable source says A and another reliable source says B, do not join A and B together to imply a conclusion C not mentioned by either of the sources. In this case the Richards 2021 source mentioning articles supporting the 'Human Biodiversity Movement' (A) is being combined with sources about the Human Biodiversity Insitute (one of which is from 2003!) (B) to create a conclusion about association with scientific racism and eugenics (C). Given that the source that does mention Quillette already defines Human Biodiversity, it is unclear why these sources unrelated to the actual topic are needed.

Also, WP:COATRACK. Crossroads 16:51, 28 October 2022 (UTC)

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