| Revision as of 18:19, 2 December 2022 editHohum (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers68,567 edits →top← Previous edit | Revision as of 02:45, 4 December 2022 edit undo197.47.195.195 (talk) →There is a mistake: new sectionTags: Mobile edit Mobile web editNext edit → | ||
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| Video name Ami Ayalon, former Head of Israel's Secret Service Talks About Operation Bulmus 6 ] (]) 06:13, 8 November 2022 (UTC) | Video name Ami Ayalon, former Head of Israel's Secret Service Talks About Operation Bulmus 6 ] (]) 06:13, 8 November 2022 (UTC) | ||
| == There is a mistake == | |||
| Egypt's victory not Israel's victory!!! | |||
| If Israel won so how Egypt has sinai right now?? ] (]) 02:45, 4 December 2022 (UTC) | |||
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Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 August 2022
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Just a quick question, fact checking requires all involved parties to actually tell their stories and fact check them not just the Israeli side which contradicts with the actual events that took place. As an example, why did Israel make an offensive on The Sinai in the first place and why would they leave the Sinai if as mentioned in the article was a decisive victory for them. It's funny that Misplaced Pages allowed this, or maybe not. it shows the real face of Wiki's brainwash and falsified facts promotion. Hussein Se7s (talk) 13:53, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 16:56, 12 August 2022 (UTC)
https://www.dekelegypt.co.il/100515 Vergth (talk) 02:13, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
This is an Israeli source on the War of Attrition and the October War Vergth (talk) 02:14, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
massive bias
The losses of the Egyptian army in the Yom Kippur War, according to the official Egyptian army data, 5,000 martyrs. This is documented in the book of Abraham Rabinowitz and others. The Egyptian navy sank 11 Israeli naval targets, and this is well documented in the book of Commanders B, in addition to Trevor Deboye. Vergth (talk) 13:45, 13 August 2022 (UTC)
massive bias
I have a question. Doesn’t Egypt also have the right to report the events that took place impartially and objectively in the Navy Department? Totally unrealistic allegations about what happened on the ground. The reality is that Israel lost two ships and more than 11 missile boats. This was never mentioned, despite it being documented in all. The commanders wrote and also about the role of the mines that the Egyptian Navy planted in the Gulf of Suez, which caused the sinking of two ships, as well as the losses of the official Egyptian army 5,000 martyrs. The data of the Egyptian army refers to the same number 5,000. This was also documented by Abraham Rabinowitz and Dr. George Goresh Vergth (talk) 23:14, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
Also, the failure to highlight the raids of the Egyptian commandos, which the Israeli books described as enormous in the war of attrition, there is a very large bias and completely unconvincing because Israel did not activate the air forces of Israel, not because of the activities of the Egyptian commando raids in the events of the upcoming large losses in equipment and deaths B, in addition to the great damage and this was also done Documented in Israeli sources Vergth (talk) 23:18, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
The war of attrition intensified more and more with the killing of more Israeli soldiers in the outposts and on the roads along the Suez Canal. The Egyptians used effective artillery as commando ambushes, and in response, Israel activated the Israeli air force due to the effectiveness of the Egyptian commando raids. Vergth (talk) 23:25, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
Also, the one-sided war of attrition article is a literal propaganda article that does not reflect reality Vergth (talk) 23:28, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
And the article of the Six Day War literally fabricates lies 6 Israeli naval commandos were captured without being able to damage an Egyptian minesweeper, and this is also documented in the book The Righteous Victims of Benny Morris and Russian and Egyptian sources. I also trusted this
Vergth (talk) 23:34, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
But the editor, unfortunately, has reached the point where he lies and makes up lies, claiming that the commando destroyed an Egyptian minesweeper, and this is completely untrue. It was fabricated by the editor. Literally a big lie Vergth (talk) 23:36, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
We want to completely correct this Vergth (talk) 23:46, 17 August 2022 (UTC)
- @Vergth Who specifically are you accusing of lying? That's a very strong accusation. You also need to link to reliable sources if you expect anyone to do anything. Doug Weller talk 09:21, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
I do not know him personally, but in the article of the Six-Day War there is a completely false claim that the Israeli naval commandos sank an Egyptian minesweeper, they were captured, and this is not true at all. Benny Morris in his book The Righteous Victims did not mention that. One and so also mentioned the Russian and Egyptian sources Vergth (talk) 12:23, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
6 Israeli naval commandos were captured without being able to damage a single ship. This was also documented in a report on the history of Chattet 13 and Benny Morris in his book The Righteous Victims, as well as Russian and Egyptian sources documented this. Vergth (talk) 12:30, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
There are a lot of reliable sources such as Benny Morris' book The Righteous Victims indicated that they were captured without being able to damage anything and there is also a report on the History of Chattet 13 that indicated that as well. Vergth (talk) 12:52, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
https://zionism-israel.com/dic/Shayetet_13.htm
Vergth (talk) 12:54, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
This link is a report on the history of the Israeli naval commandos from the Israeli encyclopedia Vergth (talk) 12:56, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Please brother, enter the link and see for yourself Vergth (talk) 13:07, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Sabotage Israeli divers were sent to the ports of Port Said and Alexandria, but they failed to damage a single ship. 6 Israeli divers were captured in Alexandria and captured page 784 in Benny Morris' book The Righteous Victims Vergth (talk) 13:12, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
The Commando History Report from the Israeli Encyclopedia, in addition to Benny Morris' book, Righteous Victims
https://zionism-israel.com/dic/Shayetet_13.htm Vergth (talk) 14:33, 18 August 2022 (UTC)
Just to clarify I didn't make stuff up. The zionism-israel source says outright that they sank a few naval craft. If you want to contest its reliability or delete it pending us finding another source for these claims, fine by me, it was 12 years ago when I was a much newer editor anyway. I'll see if I can find something from a more established source later on. However, deliberately accusing someone of inventing stuff out of thin air is serious. RM (Be my friend) 06:50, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Benny Morris in his book The Righteous Victims indicated that 6 Israeli naval commandos were captured without being able to damage a single ship, page 784 in the book. General Al-Shazly indicated that the Egyptian navy did not suffer any losses in the 1967 war. Field Marshal Mohamed Fawzy indicated in his book The 3-Year War of War Attrition The Egyptian Navy did not incur any losses in terms of personnel or equipment in the 1967 war. The encyclopedia of Israel indicated that the commandos were captured, and they were captured without there being ships. The encyclopedia said the task of neutralizing enemy fleets, since the Israel Navy did not have sufficient regular forces. to do so. The idea was that use of commandos would allow a small number of quality troops to compensate for marked inferiority in ships and fire power. In the event, Shayetet 13 saw little action, but on the other hand, the enemy navies were relatively inactive as well. It infiltrated Port Said, but there were no ships there to be targeted. It infiltrated Alexandria harbor, but the six divers sent there were stranded and captured by the Egyptians. As a result of this infiltration, the Egyptians increased their port security. Other missions failed as well, including one in Syria that was not carried through by the commander Vergth (talk) 09:40, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Then it is a lie, whether intentional or not, it is not the only one Vergth (talk) 09:46, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
In the losses department, an exaggerated number in terms of casualties. The families of the victims meet annually to talk about their children and children who have been killed and to have other discussions. Our casualty count is 6,882, but that's not an exaggerated number. 2 ships were lost from an attack by the Israeli Air Force, not the Navy, on the other hand, the Egyptian Navy sank 5 ships of the Israeli Navy, Bat Yam, Bat Glim, Bat Shiva, the ship Hydroma and others. Vergth (talk) 09:54, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
This is in the war of attrition article Vergth (talk) 09:55, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
The war of attrition article is propaganda that never reflects the reality of that war. There is a book called A Soldier in the Sinai by Monauel Escal and a book on the Egyptian Strategy for the Yom Kippur War by Danny Usher, on which you can base your books on neutrality. Vergth (talk) 10:07, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
Also, in the losses section, there are huge exaggerations in the Yom Kippur war, and the article in general is not balanced Vergth (talk) 10:47, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
So we want to highlight the raids of the Egyptian commandos in the war of attrition, which was described as enormous, and it is many and its sources are also abundantly present. Vergth (talk) 10:52, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
We want to correct all of this Vergth (talk) 13:58, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
She wrote Operation Tiger inside her article. The operation was halted after the first attack wave destroyed many of the Egyptian Air Force bases, due to the need for more air power on the Syrian front and the implementation of Operation Doogman 5. This is not true. It resulted in only minor damage to seven air bases and this is mentioned in the article on the war itself, or in the article on the same operation, he wrote something else. This is also an intentional or unintentional lie, but it is not absolutely true, only slight damage to seven air bases.
Vergth (talk) 14:08, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
It only resulted in minor damage to seven air bases but not destruction and this is mentioned in all the books as well Vergth (talk) 14:09, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
No, I did everything on purpose in the Six Day War article. I added other Arab countries under the khanate of Egypt, Syria and Jordan. You want to imagine that Israel won over 10 countries in the Six Days and the Yom Kippur War. In the article that is subjective, insincere and unbalanced, I added more than 10 countries to say that Israel defeated more than 15 countries. It's really obvious that you don't count any lies Vergth (talk) 19:48, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
In the Yom Kippur War, Israel incurred 3,020 dead more than the losses of the Vietnam War in terms of population, and Israel incurred that in only three weeks for a matter not only related to the lie of the commandos, but rather the article of the War of Attrition, which you obviously made more propaganda and biased towards Israel than before, and the Yom Kippur War did everything What can you do to make the war a crushing victory for Israel even though this is never true Vergth (talk) 19:54, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
You even claimed that the position of the Soviet Union, according to Cheryanev. By the way, it was Leonid Brezhnev himself who pressured Egypt to develop the offensive outside the defensive umbrella to help the Syrians. Vergth (talk) 19:59, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
And Andrei Gromyko, Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Soviet Union, even sent a congratulatory telegram on the Egyptian military success in the Yom Kippur War and the achievement of all goals. Vergth (talk) 20:04, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
The position of the Soviet Union spread based on your allegations, and this is completely incorrect, according to Oleg Greenevsky in his book The Third Egyptian War Scenario. Leonid Brezhnev sent a telegram of congratulations to the President of Egypt and was intending to visit Egypt, but Sadat changed Egypt's position in favor of the West and the United States, and accused Sadat, after canceling the visit, of being a traitor in of the Soviet Union through the Soviet media Vergth (talk) 20:11, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
And everyone knows that Sadat had a phobia of the Soviets, so they hated him so much that when he carried the air bridge to Egypt, it was without tanks, in return, because Syria was a priority because Assad’s Syria was allied with the ideologically closest Soviet Union, Egypt at the time of President Gamal Abdel Nasser had priority because it It was closely allied with the Soviets, unlike Sadat, since the expulsion of Soviet experts Vergth (talk) 20:15, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
After all this, because I have now confirmed that you are the one who made the article of the war of attrition more biased and propagandist in a more unrealistic way than before, and you also added the flags of countries that did not provide the slightest support to Egypt or Syria in a box to inform me in an article about the Six Day War or the Yom Kippur War Vergth (talk) 20:21, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
In short, you have erased in your propaganda article any military success of Egypt. On the other hand, Israel portrayed the hero, defeating 15 countries in the article, the October War, the War of Attrition, and the Six-Day War. All articles did not escape your prejudice and in an article for the six days as well. I doubt what you did there was unintentional. , although your role is to present articles in a neutral and objective manner. and balanced Vergth (talk) 20:33, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vclFmcaroPAMpRM6j1EM7aujxdH9Zx_y/view?usp=drivesdk
This article is from the Israeli historian about the role of the mines planted by the Egyptian Navy and caused the sinking of two ships Vergth (talk) 20:41, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
https://www.dekelegypt.co.il/100515 This article is from the book of Eli Dekel, a former Israeli intelligence officer in and a participant in the Yom Kippur War, about the Egyptian army in strategic planning, preparation, a war of attrition, and other facts.
Vergth (talk) 20:44, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
That is why I demand to delete the lie and give Egypt its right. That's her right Vergth (talk) 20:48, 19 August 2022 (UTC)
This false claim in the Six-Day War article and others must be ended Vergth (talk) 11:47, 20 August 2022 (UTC)
Benny Morris in his book The Righteous Victims noted that 6 Israeli naval commandos were captured without being able to damage a single ship, page 784 in the book. Major General El-Shazly pointed out that the Egyptian Navy did not incur any losses in the 1967 war. Field Marshal Mohamed Fawzy indicated in his book 'The 3-Year War of Attrition' that the Egyptian Navy did not incur any losses in terms of personnel or equipment in the 1967 war. The Israel Encyclopedia indicated that That the commandos were captured, they were captured without ships. The encyclopedia said that the task of neutralizing the enemy fleets, since the Israeli Navy did not have enough regular forces. Let's do it. The idea was that the use of commandos would allow a small number of high-quality troops to compensate for the perceived lack of ships and firepower. In the event, Shayetet 13 saw quite a bit of action, but on the other hand, enemy fleets were relatively inactive as well. I infiltrated Port Said, but there were no ships to target. It crept into the port of Alexandria, but the six divers who were sent there were stranded and captured by the Egyptians. As a result of this intrusion, the Egyptians increased the security of their ports. Other missions also failed, including a mission in Syria that the leader did not implement Vergth (talk) 12:10, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
it's so damn biased they won't add the part of how the Egyptian army beat the bar lev line with a water hose.
let alone the other biases and false information and i believe someone admitted to only using israeli sources? UnknownWisp (talk) 07:45, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
Israel's losses in the violent post-war clashes
Yourself. If we were in a position of weakness, would I have issued this order two days after the ceasefire with all its possibilities? It was an undeclared war of attrition on our part, and he was satisfied with the communications of the enemy and the reports of the United Nations. The objectives of this undeclared war of attrition were: - To cause the enemy the greatest losses in its human forces, equipment and weapons, and to make it impossible to put it in the pocket as it continues to mobilize the reserves, which the enemy cannot bear for a long time. Not enabling him to establish his feet by destroying his engineering equipment and equipment that appear in the area. Acquisition of more land in the east and west. The following statement can clarify the extent of the activity of our armed forces in the period from 10/31/1973 to 1/1/1974, that is, the day of the signing of the Separation of Forces Agreement. We carried out, according to enemy data, 439 operations, including 93 in November, 73, 213 in December, 73 and 133 in January 1974. These operations, according to the reports of the International Monitoring Authority and the reports of the Israeli forces themselves , resulted in the following losses in the enemy: 11 aircraft. 41 tanks and armored vehicles. 10 heavy machine guns, 36 “dozers, engineering equipment and a vehicle, hitting the Israeli oil tanker (Serena). Sinking a sea landing boat, killing 187 enemy people. In addition to the number of wounded, which can be estimated times the loss of life. The reader may conclude that the losses are many times that, if these are the statements of the enemy. I assure you, and before I go into explaining the planning of the operation to liquidate the enclave, that the 7th and 19th Infantry Divisions of the Third Army (Badr Forces), which are located east of the Victory Field Marshal, the Canal and the city of Suez, had all their needs of ammunition, fuel, water and appointments that would allow them not only to withstand But to participate in the attack, which was decreed. The supply of these two divisions continued by various means even before the supervision of the United Nations over this supply. - As for planning to destroy the enemy in this enclave, I would first like to clarify that the Haed Metwaly with the beloved was essentially: his narrow neck (only 6 kilometers) and his "bottle" size so that it could be cut, and that he was very far from his supply lines and supplies. And that our forces, close to its supply and supply, were outnumbered and outnumbered and surrounded on all sides, Vergth (talk) 02:01, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
Excerpt from the memoirs of Field Marshal Ahmed Ismail Vergth (talk) 02:02, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
https://www.dekelegypt.co.il/100515
Vergth (talk) 02:26, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
This is an Israeli source, former Israeli intelligence officer Eli Dekel. In the war of attrition and the October war Vergth (talk) 02:26, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
Stop siding with Israel
In an incredible magnification of the losses of the Egyptian army, Israel lost in the navy more than 11 heavy targets in sea confrontations. And the losses of the Egyptian army 5000 martyrs. It is based on Chaim Herzog's book on naval losses, which is, to say the least, subjective and dishonest Vergth (talk) 02:18, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
The official data of the Egyptian army indicates the number of 5000 fuses Vergth (talk) 02:19, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
Chaim Herzog in general in the war cannot be relied upon. Even historians of Israel do not rely on Herzog's book. Vergth (talk) 02:21, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
https://www.dekelegypt.co.il/100515
Vergth (talk) 02:24, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
This is an Israeli source, former Israeli intelligence officer Eli Dekel. In the war of attrition and the October war Vergth (talk) 02:25, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 10 September 2022
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Could you Please add 
Palestinian Volunteers as a combatant in the war? PreserveOurHistory (talk) 10:13, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. MadGuy7023 (talk) 10:21, 10 September 2022 (UTC)
- ok here is the source
- when on the article press ctrl + f which opens up a search bar, then type in "clashing with scattered Egyptian, Kuwaiti and Palestinian troops" PreserveOurHistory (talk) 13:41, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
- so are you going to reply? I just told you the source. PreserveOurHistory (talk) 08:01, 29 October 2022 (UTC)
This is not true, the Kuwaiti forces did not fight because they ran away with the first shot, according to the Russian Tatar general Mahmoud Gariv. Vergth (talk) 18:22, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
The Palestinian volunteers, as if their role was very limited due to their poor armament and training, this is well documented Vergth (talk) 18:24, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
- everyones role in the "support section" is limited. Pakistan send like a couple pilots. I mean I'm also wondering why Bangladesh isnt here for medical aid. PreserveOurHistory (talk) 10:14, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
The article must be rewritten
The facts that happened must be rewritten impartially, not made-up illusions. Where are the details for preparing for the war and planning Why is the war not considered from a really realistic Egyptian perspective? In the article, the Six-Day War, the War to Attrition, and the October War, a total of 270 intentional and unintentional lies Vergth (talk) 18:39, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
There are many reliable sources from intelligence officers and others that you can rely on Vergth (talk) 18:41, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
EDIT REQUEST: Cuban intervention - Wrong info - Forged sources
Hi, the information regarding Cuban participation is wrong. Cuban troops took part in combat in the Middle East only *after* the Yom Kippur war.
This is actually stated quite clearly in most of the works quoted as reference (note 63, Ra’anan, G. D. (1981). The Evolution of the Soviet Use of Surrogates in Military Relations with the Third World, with Particular Emphasis on Cuban Participation in Africa. Santa Monica.)
The same goes for Gott, Cuba, A New History, P. 280. I quote literally:
" had been with the Cuban tank troop in Syria in 1973-4, defending the Golan Heights against the Israelis after the Yom Kippur war." (it clearly says *after* the war).
One citation is simply forged: note 8, Perez, Cuba, Between Reform and Revolution, pp. 377-79 says nothing about Cuban involvement in the Middle East, it is actually a section about bibliography. I can provide copies of these pages.
Note 8 is also used as a reference for the (forged) "1,500 troops" figure. The reference for the "4,000 troops" figure (note 51) is a book with no page number, i.e. it's not a reference.
The 180 dead, 250 wounded figure included in Casualties and losses cites Ra'anan, G. D. (1981) again as a reference (note 63), but as I already explained, this work is clearly talking about Cuban involvement in the Middle East *after* the Yom Kippur war. By the way, this work is available online for free at https://www.rand.org/pubs/papers/P6420.html
Note 442 is a repetition of the forged note 8. Note 443 is a repetition of the fake note 51.
This is not a mistake, but clearly a forgery. In any case, please correct this. I cannot do that because the page is protected. 95.247.230.107 (talk) 19:08, 18 September 2022 (UTC)
- Hi, I've found at least one source that says there was a 500-man strong Cuban tank battalion in Syria during the war . I would also note that the quote above about one individual being in the Golan Heights after the war does not preclude the wider tank troop contingent being present beforehand. Iskandar323 (talk) 06:51, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
- I've updated the details on Cuba's presence based on the Rand report detail and the force size figure in the Atlantic. Iskandar323 (talk) 07:30, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
Egyptian minesweeper
I suggest omitting the claim that the Egyptian minesweeper was sunk by commandos prior to its capture, because this is an unrealistic claim in an article about Six Days of War in all sources, including Israeli sources. I wrote without any source Vergth (talk) 11:10, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
The Israeli Encyclopedia also referred to this Vergth (talk) 11:12, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
https://zionism-israel.com/dic/Shayetet_13.htm Vergth (talk) 11:12, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
And also many other sources Vergth (talk) 11:15, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
- @Vergth: It would be helpful if you could explicitly state what information you think is incorrect and what should replace it. Iskandar323 (talk) 11:18, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
In a war article for Six Days, a claim was made that the commandos sank an Egyptian minesweeper, and they were captured. This is an unrealistic claim without any source.
Vergth (talk) 11:33, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
Sabotage Israeli divers were sent to the ports of Port Said and Alexandria, but they failed to damage a single ship. Six Israeli divers captured in Alexandria are captured on page 784 of Benny Morris' book The Righteous Victims. Vergth (talk) 11:35, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
They were captured without being able to damage a single ship or a single Egyptian minesweeper Vergth (talk) 11:37, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
- @Vergth: I don't understand: why aren't you posting this edit request on Six-Day War - if that is the article this is about? Iskandar323 (talk) 12:19, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
Benny Morris in his book The Righteous Victims noted that 6 Israeli naval commandos were captured without being able to damage a single ship, page 784 in the book. Major General El-Shazly pointed out that the Egyptian Navy did not incur any losses in the 1967 war. Field Marshal Mohamed Fawzy indicated in his book 'The 3-Year War of Attrition' that the Egyptian Navy did not incur any losses in terms of personnel or equipment in the 1967 war. The Israel Encyclopedia indicated that That the commandos were captured, they were captured without ships. The encyclopedia said that the task of neutralizing the enemy fleets, since the Israeli Navy did not have enough regular forces. Let's do it. The idea was that the use of commandos would allow a small number of high-quality troops to compensate for the perceived lack of ships and firepower. In the event, Shayetet 13 saw quite a bit of action, but on the other hand, enemy fleets were relatively inactive as well. I infiltrated Port Said, but there were no ships to target. It crept into the port of Alexandria, but the six divers who were sent there were stranded and captured by the Egyptians. As a result of this intrusion, the Egyptians increased the security of their ports. Other missions also failed, including a mission in Syria that the leader did not implement Vergth (talk) 12:19, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
I brought it up but I'm going to try again Vergth (talk) 12:25, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
No, I'm talking about a lot of prejudice and that's just one of them Vergth (talk) 12:34, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
https://www.dekelegypt.co.il/100515
Vergth (talk) 13:36, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
This is about the preparations for war in Egypt, planning, the war of attrition and the October war Vergth (talk) 13:37, 19 September 2022 (UTC)
Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 24 October 2022
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the numbers of israeli tanks and tanks destroyed are not accurate bc only in 1 battle israel lost more then 400+tanks (operation badr) the israelis also lost about 330-340 tanks in the battle of Valley of Tears Misse156 (talk) 10:12, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
- Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 08:51, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
A part is wrong
The part that Israel won is not true please change it 82.129.165.250 (talk) 12:45, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
No air war?
There is nothing on the air war in the table of contents and I couldn't find anything in the article (although I am unwilling to read through the whole thing just to find such items). I think there should be section 2.4 on this topic. Asgrrr (talk) 14:39, 24 October 2022 (UTC)
One sided info, use facts instead
First, to get rid of the (Its just Egyptian propaganda) accusations lets quickly post what the Isralie version of October war say about crossing the Canal:
The objective of Israeli crossing from the east (Sinai) to the west was to:
- Bombard the missiles batteries anti-planes "Sam"
- Occupy Ismailia city, to encircle the second army by Sharon’s forces.
- Occupy Suez city and encircle the third army by forces of Avraham Adan and Kalman Magen.
But Sharon failed to occupy Ismailia city and the same with Adan and Magen to encircle third Egyptian Army and occupy Suez city.
About crossing to the west of the canal, David Elazar chief of Israeli headquarter staff on 3 December 1973, says:
(Sharon still continues his irresponsible declaration to journalists trying to lessen the role of other leaders to appear as an unique champion, although he knows well that our crossing to the western side of the canal caused too much losses.
However, we could not along ten days of fighting to overcome any of Egyptian armies. The second army resisted and prevented us ultimately to reach Ismailia city.
As for the third army, in spite of our encircling them they resisted and advanced to occupy in fact a wider area of land at the east. Thus, we can not say that we defeated or conquered them) David Elazar.
I never understood how someone can say (Egypt's army lost military and was even encircled), Am aware they take Wiki editing classes in Israel but this one require history deleting classes to claim
But i want to add something to the Israeli story which is missing (As usual) and why they are doing it
You see, i have not seen another incident in history where a new cease fire order was giving 3 days in a row, but it happened
22October after Israeli forces across the canal were massacred by the people's resistance in Suez city using weapons they stole and some cops with low-tier handguns with a few officers holding anti-tank RPGs
The US pushed the UN to do a cease fire order (So that the war will end with Israel on the other side and standing strong), so Israel used the chance, violated the cease fire order *Pretend to be surprised* and tried attacking the Suez city, it was a disaster for them
The next day "23October" Egypt tried pushing it, a new cease fire was made and Egypt had to stop and watch, a new attempt by the Isralies, another disaster and defeat
At this point the SovietUnion tried got into confrontation with the US as Israel kept breaching the cease fire and the US kept pretending to be from Banha
The next day "24October" a new cease fire order, a new Isralie violation of it and an attempt to attack the Suez city, the results? They lost 68 officers, 373 soldiers, 23 aircrafts, 15 tanks, you ever hear the jokes how the Balkans were shooting down Stealth Russian Jets cuz "We didn't know it was stealth", well the Egyptians in Suez didn't know you needed Anti-Aircraft weapons to bomb Aircrafts
We get the final battle for Suez, https://en.wikipedia.org/Battle_of_Suez which was the final nail in the Isralie coffin for the forces that crossed the canal
Now focus here, the 3rd army is "encircled" and yet the Isralie army isnt able to overcome it (By their own admitting mind you), and to add on top of that, part of the encirclement is the forces trying to enter the Suez city across the canal (Which as we said earlier was mascaraed and as the Isralie commanders said earlier, lost too much and achieved none of the objectives) so in Egyptian (5aly el encirclement tnf3k)
So basically, Israeli agreed that the war end because the moment the cease fire would end, the Isralie forces positions are perfect to be comparable to slaughter houses, all the gains they got by crossing the canal would be lost almost instantly "Thus the Military gains/causalities advantage would be back to Egypt again, now ask yourself what did you vote on this post"
The irony
2 last things to address, the number of causalities, by all means the gap in the Egyptian military did happen as mentioned and our forces went from having not a small portion of the Isralie causalities to having way more than theirs, but again, that was a decision the Sadat knew what would result in, all the Egyptians officers warned him about it BEFORE the breach happened, all of them in the diaries insult Sadat for it, but he took it anyway and in his defense, he saved all of Syria from falling, based on the fact the Gollan heights are still occupied today, it would be the (Palestinian/Syrian-Isralie conflict) today if he didn't, none of us is worthy of judging such a heavy decision "keep your soldiers safe and the country helping you entirely fall" "Risk everything to try helping the country with you"
Again, none of us is 0.01% worthy to judge, "On a personal note and i apologize for adding personal things, my mother lost her father in the war during the breach and she hold no grudge against Sadat"
The last thing to address is the 0brainer that Israel give Sinai cuz it just wanted peace and Sinai was just a worthless hellhole, oh boy where do i start with this one
Do i start with the plans for "Greater Israel" being all the way across the Suez canal almost into Cairo?
Do i start with the fact Israel tried extracting Oil from the Suez gulf but it failed cuz the Egyptian intelligence sent agents to infiltrate and bomb it while it was still travelling?
Do i start with the retreating Isralie soldiers crying and writing on walls (We will be back)
Do i start with the fact until today they still build illegal settlements and occupy the Syrian Gollan heights?
Do i start with Dayan saying
Better to Hold Sharm El-sheikh Without Peace Than Peace Without This Area
Now why do Isralie do this? lets give an example, the current prime minister said he doesnt support a 2 state solution, cuz the Arabs will demand their rights and that will be the end of Israel
And on my old account "The one banned on the Isralie subreddit" the ban was after i replied to a relevant comment with the Suez battle, i was banned under 10 seconds
See Isralies are taught, that Arabs want all Jews killed, that if Israel lose 1 war it will be the end of Judaism etc etc, so to lose 1973 would mean all the propaganda Israel create has been a lie, so its no more than a cringe coping attempt to keep brainwashed people into their own bubble
I wrote here thats my opinion but as i read the post i found something beautiful
During his historic speech before the Egyptian People's Assembly on October 16, 1973, declaring his victory in the battle, the late Egyptian President Anwar Sadat said this sentence that no one except Israel paid attention to, and ended a war it was preparing for. The entire paragraph that came in Sadat's speech, and in it this sentence says, "I may add so that they may hear in Israel that we are not advocates of genocide as they claim and then repeat it," "We are not advocates of genocide as they claim." Our Egyptian Zafer-style missiles are now on their bases, ready to launch With one reference to the depths of the depths in Israel, and we were able from the first minute of the battle to give the signal and issue the order, especially since vanity and empty pride made them more than they could bear its consequences, but we appreciate the responsibility for the use of certain types of weapons and we defend ourselves from them, even if they have to remember what I said it one day, and I still say it, “An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, and depth for depth.”The sentence was clear and Israel understood that if it launched a city war and bombed civilian and strategic targets in the Egyptian governorates and the Egyptian depth, Egypt would be able to confront and respond violently and reach the heart of Israeli cities, but why did Sadat say that sentence? Major General Nasr Salem, a military expert, told Al-Arabiya.net that there was evidence and intelligence information that reached the Egyptian political and military leadership, confirming that Israel is preparing for urban warfare, bombing and striking strategic Egyptian targets after its successive losses on the front, with the aim of upsetting the Egyptian spirit and making the people question the victory of its army and alleviating Fighting on the front and forcing the Egyptian army to accept a ceasefire.
As i was creating this post, i found out thanks to a random comment by u/Econort816 2 important things https://nsarchive2.gwu.edu/NSAEBB/NSAEBB98/octwar-24.pdf "Classified CIA documents from 10th October 1973 of what the Egyptian goal really is"
And https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OygBiCU9Ir8 An interview with Isralie historian in 2018 about the question (Who won the war) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.56.44.200 (talk) 10:34, 26 October 2022 (UTC)
The Battle of the Green Island
Ami Ayalon admitted that out of the 40 people who actually fought on the island, only 2, were not injured or killed, and the goal was to occupy the island. This is a recognition of the outcome of the battle. Vergth (talk) 05:53, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
On the hudsonunionsociety channel Vergth (talk) 06:09, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
Video name Ami Ayalon, former Head of Israel's Secret Service Talks About Operation Bulmus 6 Vergth (talk) 06:13, 8 November 2022 (UTC)
There is a mistake
Egypt's victory not Israel's victory!!! If Israel won so how Egypt has sinai right now?? 197.47.195.195 (talk) 02:45, 4 December 2022 (UTC)
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