Article snapshot taken from[REDACTED] with creative commons attribution-sharealike license.
Give it a read and then ask your questions in the chat.
We can research this topic together.
:{{ping|Sacxpert}} I clarified the provenance of the image with . --] (]) 06:43, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
:{{ping|Sacxpert}} I clarified the provenance of the image with . --] (]) 06:43, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
::Okay, then I have to unreservedly apologize. I just assumed, having seem the same image in black-and-white, that it came first and the colorizing came later. Thank you for the clarification! ] (]) 04:10, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
::Okay, then I have to unreservedly apologize. I just assumed, having seem the same image in black-and-white, that it came first and the colorizing came later. Thank you for the clarification! ] (]) 04:10, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
:Regarding ], I don't know if it's a particularly clear representation of the actual massacre, as opposed to its aftermath. {{code|Kiew_Babyn_Yar_7_Bild_008-005}} in the collection {{u|K.e.coffman}} linked in this thread also isn't an exact representation of the massacre itself, but appears to be in the more immediate aftermath of the massacre (''i. e.'' before the Nazis undermined the wall of the ravine). ] is a more clear depiction of actual shootings at Babyn Yar, but it was apparently taken in 1942, after the initial 1941 massacre. I'm not sure which photograph we should use, but I'd be most in favor of using {{code|Kiew_Babyn_Yar_7_Bild_008-005}}. ] (]) 06:03, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
== Language of title of the article ==
== Language of title of the article ==
Revision as of 06:03, 25 February 2023
This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Babi Yar article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Ukraine, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Ukraine on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.UkraineWikipedia:WikiProject UkraineTemplate:WikiProject UkraineUkraine
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Russia, a WikiProject dedicated to coverage of Russia on Misplaced Pages. To participate: Feel free to edit the article attached to this page, join up at the project page, or contribute to the project discussion.RussiaWikipedia:WikiProject RussiaTemplate:WikiProject RussiaRussia
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Germany, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Germany on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GermanyWikipedia:WikiProject GermanyTemplate:WikiProject GermanyGermany
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Jewish history, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Jewish history on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Jewish historyWikipedia:WikiProject Jewish historyTemplate:WikiProject Jewish historyJewish history-related
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Death, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Death on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DeathWikipedia:WikiProject DeathTemplate:WikiProject DeathDeath
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Soviet Union, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics (USSR) on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Soviet UnionWikipedia:WikiProject Soviet UnionTemplate:WikiProject Soviet UnionSoviet Union
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics
This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.Military historyWikipedia:WikiProject Military historyTemplate:WikiProject Military historymilitary history
This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-class status:
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Geography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of geography on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.GeographyWikipedia:WikiProject GeographyTemplate:WikiProject Geographygeography
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Geology, an attempt at creating a standardized, informative, comprehensive and easy-to-use geology resource. If you would like to participate, you can choose to edit this article, or visit the project page for more information.GeologyWikipedia:WikiProject GeologyTemplate:WikiProject GeologyGeology
This article links to one or more target anchors that no longer exist.
] The anchor (#Nazi Germany and occupied Europe) has been deleted by other users before.
Please help fix the broken anchors. You can remove this template after fixing the problems. | Reporting errors
Documents in the book
The terrible documents written by murderous Germans who acted in Babi Yar can be written in the book “The good old days” by Ernst Klee and others.
Use of colorized image
I really think this article should go back to using the previous image. Right now, it's a colorized version of a photo taken by the SS. It's credited to Johannes Haehle and listed as being created on 1 October 1941, but the coloring is ex post facto. I know that colorization can bring the past to life and make it more "interesting" to modern audiences, but its accuracy and authenticity is always questionable. Since the original image was black-and-white, we should use that image. Are we going to colorize every other image of the Holocaust, too? `Sacxpert (talk) 05:32, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
Okay, then I have to unreservedly apologize. I just assumed, having seem the same image in black-and-white, that it came first and the colorizing came later. Thank you for the clarification! Sacxpert (talk) 04:10, 26 November 2022 (UTC)
Regarding the image currently used, I don't know if it's a particularly clear representation of the actual massacre, as opposed to its aftermath. Kiew_Babyn_Yar_7_Bild_008-005 in the collection K.e.coffman linked in this thread also isn't an exact representation of the massacre itself, but appears to be in the more immediate aftermath of the massacre (i. e. before the Nazis undermined the wall of the ravine). File:Massacre de Babi Yar.jpg is a more clear depiction of actual shootings at Babyn Yar, but it was apparently taken in 1942, after the initial 1941 massacre. I'm not sure which photograph we should use, but I'd be most in favor of using Kiew_Babyn_Yar_7_Bild_008-005. CJ-Moki (talk) 06:03, 25 February 2023 (UTC)
Language of title of the article
The article is about Ukrainian city, place in Ukraine and about Ukrainian victims in the list of all victims from there. Why does the name of the article is transcription from russian language? I mean in ukrainian we call it only "Бабин Яр" (Babyn Yar) and even for some Ukrainians who talk in russian that is Banyn Yar, not Babi Yar. Can y'all please change it? Ask for that as ukrainian. Thank you. Artekimus (talk) 09:06, 22 January 2023 (UTC)
The lead says: Victims of massacres at the site included members of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists. The source used says: "Several dozen OUN members fell victim to the Germans in Kyiv. These were mostly Melnykites, who up until then had coexisted and cooperated with the occupiers." In page 216 it says: "The shootings were carried out in an anti-tank ditch, as well as in pits that were dug in the open area in the Babyn Yar district (but not in the ravine itself)". Also the same source says: "Although successors to the OUN(M) in modern Ukraine and in the Ukrainian diaspora state that the Germans killed as many as 621 activists of the movement in Kyiv between 1941 and 1943, careful calculations show this number to be incorrect. A shorter list, of 62 names, mentioned
on a memorial cross placed in 1992, also requires verification, as at least some of these OUN
members were not victims of Nazism." Also the section in the source is called "Ukrainian Nationalists as Victims of Nazi Germany", not "Ukrainian Nationalists as Victims of Babyn Yar". Meanwhile in the body it says: Among those murdered were 621 members of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN). While it links to this source. It also raises the question of WP:DUE weight. Mellk (talk) 19:24, 27 January 2023 (UTC)
.svg)
.svg){kind=small}
Referencing and citation: criterion met
