Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 23:41, 24 May 2023

Happy editing

Copying within Misplaced Pages requires attribution

Thank you for your contributions to Misplaced Pages. It appears that you copied or moved text from Unfair dismissal into Unfair dismissal (Australia). While you are welcome to re-use Misplaced Pages's content, here or elsewhere, Misplaced Pages's licensing does require that you provide attribution to the original contributor(s). When copying within Misplaced Pages, this is supplied at minimum in an edit summary at the page into which you've copied content, disclosing the copying and linking to the copied page, e.g., copied content from ]; see that page's history for attribution. It is good practice, especially if copying is extensive, to also place a properly formatted {{copied}} template on the talk pages of the source and destination. Please provide attribution for this duplication if it has not already been supplied by another editor, and if you have copied material between pages before, even if it was a long time ago, you should provide attribution for that also. You can read more about the procedure and the reasons at Misplaced Pages:Copying within Misplaced Pages. Thank you. If you are the sole author of the prose that was copied, attribution is not required. — Diannaa (talk) 13:44, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

I provided attribution on the talk page Jack4576 (talk) 16:30, 1 August 2020 (UTC)

That's not the correct way to do it. See the above instructions.— Diannaa (talk) 10:35, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks

Thanks for your efforts in articles such as Comcare v Banerji, ASIC v Kobelt and others. Like many such articles they could be improved with more secondary sources, particularly law journals etc, but these take a while to come out which always makes it difficult for recent cases. Thought I would let you know of a minor issue with your use of the Cite AustLII template - the link to AustLII is automatically generated and the link= is meant to be used for an internal[REDACTED] article. Using it for a url was causing the template to malfunction. But its a minor issue and easily fixed. We appear to have common interests so I look forward to seeing more of your contributions. If you have any questions I am always happy to help. --Find bruce (talk) 07:53, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you Find bruce, I greatly appreciate your feedback. Indeed it seems we do share similar interests; I look forward to contributing together on Misplaced Pages with you! Thanks again Jack4576 (talk) 10:00, 25 August 2020 (UTC)

Australian legal system

Hi, and thank you for your contributions to Misplaced Pages. It appears that you tried to give Australian legal system a different title by copying its content and pasting either the same content, or an edited version of it, into Legal system of Australia. This is known as a "cut-and-paste move", and it is undesirable because it splits the page history, which is legally required for attribution. Instead, the software used by Misplaced Pages has a feature that allows pages to be moved to a new title together with their edit history.

In most cases, once your account is four days old and has ten edits, you should be able to move an article yourself using the "Move" tab at the top of the page (the tab may be hidden in a dropdown menu for you). This both preserves the page history intact and automatically creates a redirect from the old title to the new. If you cannot perform a particular page move yourself this way (e.g. because a page already exists at the target title), please follow the instructions at requested moves to have it moved by someone else. Also, if there are any other pages that you moved by copying and pasting, even if it was a long time ago, please list them at Misplaced Pages:Requests for history merge. Thank you. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Moxy (talk • contribs) 13:15, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, I attempted to move it without performing a cut and paste move; but it returned an error. For that reason a cut and paste move was necessary Jack4576 (talk) 13:17, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

No, a cut-and-paste move was not necessary. Please ask an administrator for help. See WP:Requested moves for instructions. Thanks, wbm1058 (talk) 13:55, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Necessary, as in unable to do it due to a bug or whatever. Not saying that the move was necessary. Relax. Jack4576 (talk) 14:46, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

There is no "bug". When you are unable to do this, you ask, preferably, an administrator, who has deletion rights, and thus is able to properly move the page over a redirect, to move it for you. Or, a WP:Page mover who can do a "round-robin" move, which is a less than ideal way to do it, but accepted by the community. I'm here because I had to clean up after you; your move threw flags that I patrol for. This incident is water under the bridge; all I'm asking is that you become aware of page-moving procedures and do it right the next time you run into this issue. Thanks, wbm1058 (talk) 16:43, 10 September 2020 (UTC)

Okay, so I'm not just taking your word for it, are you able to point me out to a page detailing that cut & paste moves are flat out banned? Haven't come across that one. Such a rule isn't mentioned in the WP:Requested moves page you linked. Jack4576 (talk) 01:39, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

See Misplaced Pages:Moving a page. The last sentence of the lead paragraph: "Do not move or rename a page by copying/pasting its content, because doing so fragments the edit history. Instead, please follow the instructions given below." Also Misplaced Pages:Administrators' guide/Fixing cut-and-paste moves. – wbm1058 (talk) 03:21, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

Thanks, appreciated Jack4576 (talk) 10:28, 11 September 2020 (UTC)

MIMA v Haji Ibrahim moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, MIMA v Haji Ibrahim, is much too incomplete to remain published. It needs at least some information about the result of the case, (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Misplaced Pages). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Misplaced Pages's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. DGG ( talk ) 03:45, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

The result of the case was already on the page DGG, in the casebox. Jack4576 (talk) 04:31, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

The infobox is intended as as a summary of the article, not a replacement for it. The article on a related case was well done, so fix this similarly. DGG ( talk ) 10:45, 30 September 2020 (UTC)

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Organized labour project

Thank you for joining the Organized Labour project. I've been a participant in the project since 2006 and am helping with a revival of it. As part this we are introducing a new membership system, which will help with communications among participants. This involves creating a membership file for each participant within your user space (you can see an example of my membership card here: User:Goldsztajn/WikiProjectCards/WikiProject Organized Labour). This system is already in operation within a number of wikiprojects (such as Women in Red and Medicine). You will not have to do anything, myself or someone else from the project will create the relevant file within your userspace. However, I am conscious that it is not polite to change an editor's user space without notice. If I don't hear from you in the negative, I will go ahead with making the change after the 18th of January. If you have any questions, please feel free to contact me. Many thanks for supporting the project, in solidarity, --Goldsztajn (talk) 10:08, 11 January 2021 (UTC)

Close paraphrasing at Board of Bendigo Regional Institute of Technical and Further Education v Barclay

I was reviewing your recently created article about Bendigo v Barclay and note that it appears to closely paraphrase this source (see copyvio report as well). My understanding from reviewing the hosting website's copyright page is that this content is not free to reuse, and thus the paraphrasing appears to be a violation of our policies concerning the use of non-free content. If I'm mistaken about the underlying copyright governing the document on the AGS website do let me know, but otherwise please work to rewrite the article so that it is no longer a close paraphrase. _signed, Rosguill 22:04, 15 January 2021 (UTC)

Clayton Utz page

Hi @jack4576

I'm from the communications team at Clayton Utz. We've seen that the article on our firm is somewhat out of date, and would like to update it with new information (such as deals, awards, clients, and community activities), properly sourced from third parties where possible. The guide to editing suggests that we work with a current editor to maintain its quality ie. NPOV and proper citations, rather than just going in and editing our own section as others seem to do. We saw that you have adopted the article, and wondered if we could work with you on ensuring the article is current and comprehensive.

I want to emphasise that this is not an exercise in trying to get the Controversies section removed, or otherwise to whitewash the article; we just think that we could help by providing more current information, backed by third party citations, and overall improving its quality.

kind regards

Clayton Utz Comms (talk) 06:25, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Hello Clayton Utz Comms. You are welcome to make proposals to change the Clayton Utz article through its talk page. The guideline for Conflict of interest (COI) editing states that "COI editors should not edit affected articles directly, but should propose changes on article talk pages instead".

Additionally, Editors with a COI, including paid editors, are expected to disclose it whenever they seek to change an affected article's content. Anyone editing for pay must disclose who is paying them, who the client is, and any other relevant affiliation; this is a requirement of the Wikimedia Foundation.

I recommend looking closely at Misplaced Pages's NPOV guidelines, as well as the guidelines provided on Misplaced Pages:Conflict of interest

Personally I have no axe to grind with Clayton Utz. Any proposed contributions that provide current information, backed by third party citations, and overall improving the article's quality; will be welcomed by myself and no doubt the other editors of legal Misplaced Pages.

Kind regards Jack4576 (talk) 12:24, 18 January 2021 (UTC)

Your draft article, Draft:Labour hire (European Union)

Hello, Jack4576. It has been over six months since you last edited the Articles for Creation submission or Draft page you started, "Labour hire".

In accordance with our policy that Misplaced Pages is not for the indefinite hosting of material deemed unsuitable for the encyclopedia mainspace, the draft has been nominated for deletion. If you plan on working on it further, or editing it to address the issues raised if it was declined, simply edit the submission and remove the {{db-afc}}, {{db-draft}}, or {{db-g13}} code.

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Thank you for your submission to Misplaced Pages! UnitedStatesian (talk) 14:41, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Allens Trust Breach

Why is the breach of trust by Powles considered "non-notable". It was a large amount of money, and involved several countries, and there are many newspaper reports and a book? Olivertownshend (talk) 04:17, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Olivertownshend lets have this discussion on the relevant article's talk page. Jack4576 (talk) 22:37, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

Concern regarding Draft:MIMA v Haji Ibrahim

Hello, Jack4576. This is a bot-delivered message letting you know that Draft:MIMA v Haji Ibrahim, a page you created, has not been edited in at least 5 months. Draft space is not an indefinite storage location for content that is not appropriate for article space.

If your submission is not edited soon, it could be nominated for deletion under CSD G13. If you would like to attempt to save it, you will need to improve it. You may request userfication of the content if it meets requirements.

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May 2021

Your edit to Appellant S395/2002 v MIMA has been removed in whole or in part, as it appears to have added copyrighted material to Misplaced Pages without evidence of permission from the copyright holder. If you are the copyright holder, please read Misplaced Pages:Donating copyrighted materials for more information on uploading your material to Misplaced Pages. For legal reasons, Misplaced Pages cannot accept copyrighted material, including text or images from print publications or from other websites, without an appropriate and verifiable license. All such contributions will be deleted. You may use external websites or publications as a source of information, but not as a source of content, such as sentences or images—you must write using your own words. Misplaced Pages takes copyright very seriously, and persistent violators of our copyright policy will be blocked from editing. See Misplaced Pages:Copying text from other sources for more information. — Diannaa (talk) 10:35, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Diannaa the material was not taken from Cornell's entry, the material comes from the Appellant S395/2002 case itself. The Cornell entry merely summarises the content quite well, and the wiki entry that I wrote based on that summary did NOT quote directly from the Cornell entry. Please do not randomly delete my entries in this way, please raise a discussion first on the talk page. Thank you. Jack4576 (talk) 11:05, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Can you please provide me with a link that shows the case itself is in the public domain or compatibly licensed? Thanks.— Diannaa (talk) 11:13, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Diannaa The decision itself is a High Court of Australia case, Apex court cases fall within the Fair Use exception under US copyright law; and also within the 'Fair Dealing' exception under Australian copyright law. Here is a link to the decision: which as you can see is freely available on a publicly accessible database for all to access and republish(http://www8.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/viewdoc/au/cases/cth/HCA/2003/71.html) Jack4576 (talk) 11:26, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Diannaa it angers me that this deletion of my entry occured without a discussion on the talk page first. The entry that I had made for S395 was carefully crafted for clarity, conciseness, and accuracy; and now that work has disappeared due to your use of admin privileges. I request a rollback. Jack4576 (talk) 11:26, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Besides, it isn't relevant whether or not the case itself is in the public domain or licensed. What you deleted was my summary of that decision; which has an independent copyright status from both the original High Court entry; and the Cornell summary. (Which would be inevitably similar to my summary; as both are summaries of the same thing)Jack4576 (talk) 11:26, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

(edit conflict) Misplaced Pages does not allow prose under fair use. Short properly attributed quotations are allowed, but not material copied from your sources, unless the text is compatibly licensed or in the public domain. The Government of Australia does release some of their material under a Creative Commons license. Can you determine if that is the case here?Please note that content that violates any copyrights is subject to immediate removal. The patrolling administrator is not required to discuss first. If you can prove that we are legally permitted to host this content, I will be happy to restore it. — Diannaa (talk) 11:51, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Thank you for clarifying that Diannaa. I have resolved the issue by re-stating the facts of the case whilst completely avoiding any prose used by the Cornell entry. High Court decisions aren't included within the Government of Australia's Creative Commons license, but is covered as an exception within Australia's Fair Dealing copyright law, and the US's Fair Use copyright law; as text from a decision of an apex court. Jack4576 (talk) 11:58, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages has a very strict copyright policy, stricter in some ways than copyright law itself, because our fair use policy does not allow us to copy material from copyright sources when there's a freely licensed alternative available. In this case the freely licensed material is prose that we write ourselves.— Diannaa (talk) 12:01, 31 May 2021 (UTC)

Nomination for deletion of Template:Australian Constitutional Law

Template:Australian Constitutional Law has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at the entry on the Templates for discussion page. WikiCleanerMan (talk) 21:18, 16 October 2021 (UTC)

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Dietrich v The Queen

Hey there, looks like you are an aussie lawyer also. Dietrich is up for removal from featured article - I have tried to make substantial cleanup etc to prevent this from happening. Did a lot of formatting, moving things about, expanding, and looking at other good case law articles on here to see how they were structured. If you fancy, would you take a look at Dietrich if/when you have time? Would love a second pair of eyes. Cheers. Such-change47 (talk) 13:41, 16 December 2021 (UTC)

Nomination of Oliver Yates for deletion

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February 2023 Labour Edit-a-thon

2023 WikiProject Organized Labour/Online Edit-A-Thon

Hello, Jack4576! During the entire month of February there will be an ongoing edit-a-thon on all labour related projects across English Misplaced Pages and sister projects. Register to track your edits and sign up on the edit-a-thon's project page as a participant. To invite other participants paste {{subst:WPLABOR/2023}} on their talk page! This event is organized by WP:WikiProject Organized Labour

~ 🦝 Shushugah (he/him • talk) 00:05, 20 January 2023 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Kennon v Spry is a very good page. Well done! BoyTheKingCanDance (talk) 10:35, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

Thank you ! Jack4576 (talk) 11:19, 18 March 2023 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Original Barnstar
	Principle of Legality (Australia) is another awesome article. Great work! BoyTheKingCanDance (talk) 16:21, 20 March 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the nice feedback ! Jack4576 (talk) 03:34, 21 March 2023 (UTC)

Chicago CRED moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Chicago CRED, is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more citations from reliable, independent sources. (?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Misplaced Pages). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Misplaced Pages's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page. Mooonswimmer 22:03, 3 May 2023 (UTC)

• Hello Mooonswimmer, the article as drafted referenced significant and detailed video coverage from The Economist, among other media sources. It seems to me that the notability threshold was met on that basis. Jack4576 (talk) 00:52, 4 May 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for May 9

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited Australian residential rental market, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page ALP.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:04, 9 May 2023 (UTC)

Nomination of Chicago CRED for deletion

The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Chicago CRED until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

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— kashmīrī  16:54, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Zoop

I have moved this article to User:Jack4576/Zoop (platform) so it can be further worked on, with additional sources. I think there's something to said about this, an attempt by the founders of OnlyFans to create an internet site that's not overrun by adult material. Ritchie333 17:44, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you kindly Ritchie333 Jack4576 (talk) 17:47, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

As a general rule of thumb, an article should have about 1,500 characters of prose (this is the basic limit for Did you know? submissions) and ideally, substantially more, without running out of good source material. I would aim to get at least that amount in the article, then use the Articles for Creation process to review it. From my hunt for sources, my concern is there only seems to be coverage of the site's launch, and not much since then. Some more sources discussing the site in 2023 would be helpful. Ritchie333 18:23, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you Ritchie Jack4576 (talk) 06:12, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

May 2023

Welcome to Misplaced Pages. It might not have been your intention, but you recently removed maintenance templates from Chicago CRED. When removing maintenance templates, please be sure to either resolve the problem that the template refers to, or give a valid reason for the removal in the edit summary. Please see Help:Maintenance template removal for further information on when maintenance templates should or should not be removed. If this was a mistake, don't worry, as your removal of this template has been reverted. Take a look at the welcome page to learn more about contributing to this encyclopedia, and if you would like to experiment, please use your sandbox. Thank you. Toddst1 (talk) 18:12, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Your recent editing history at Chicago CRED shows that you are currently engaged in an edit war; that means that you are repeatedly changing content back to how you think it should be, when you have seen that other editors disagree. To resolve the content dispute, please do not revert or change the edits of others when you are reverted. Instead of reverting, please use the talk page to work toward making a version that represents consensus among editors. The best practice at this stage is to discuss, not edit-war; read about how this is done. If discussions reach an impasse, you can then post a request for help at a relevant noticeboard or seek dispute resolution. In some cases, you may wish to request temporary page protection.

Being involved in an edit war can result in you being blocked from editing—especially if you violate the three-revert rule, which states that an editor must not perform more than three reverts on a single page within a 24-hour period. Undoing another editor's work—whether in whole or in part, whether involving the same or different material each time—counts as a revert. Also keep in mind that while violating the three-revert rule often leads to a block, you can still be blocked for edit warring—even if you do not violate the three-revert rule—should your behavior indicate that you intend to continue reverting repeatedly. Toddst1 (talk) 18:29, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

You may be blocked from editing without further warning the next time you remove maintenance templates from Misplaced Pages articles without resolving the problem that the template refers to, as you did at Chicago CRED. Toddst1 (talk) 18:29, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm clearly not edit warring. I engaged on the talk page, and provided sources and reasoning in explanation prior to removing those templates. Further, I did not 3RR. Threatening a block is totally inappropriate. Shove off. Jack4576 (talk) 18:35, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Brian Slocum (law professor) moved to draftspace

An article you recently created, Brian Slocum (law professor), is not suitable as written to remain published. It needs more in-depth coverage about the subject itself, with citations from reliable, independent sources in order to show it meets WP:GNG. It should have at least three, to be safe. And please remember that interviews, as primary sources, do not count towards GNG.(?) Information that can't be referenced should be removed (verifiability is of central importance on Misplaced Pages). I've moved your draft to draftspace (with a prefix of "Draft:" before the article title) where you can incubate the article with minimal disruption. When you feel the article meets Misplaced Pages's general notability guideline and thus is ready for mainspace, please click on the "Submit your draft for review!" button at the top of the page.Onel5969 16:10, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

Congratulations Onel5969, you’ve found one of my articles that doesn’t meet GNG requirements

In the process, you’ve removed from mainspace an entry on one of America’s foremost scholars on law and language

I can’t be bothered redrafting this

You’re obviously not a domain expert in the area of linguistics or law, otherwise you’d be competent enough to recognise that Brian Slocum is notable enough to have an entry

No I won’t be redrafting this. Why bother. I trawled all the news articles I could, but as a legal scholar, he’s not exactly the typical subject for the front page of the New York Times

Your officiously strict application of the guidelines is typical of the deletionist editors that are undermining the humanitarian mission of this site

Shame on you, but you’ve won this little battle today. Goodnight Jack4576 (talk) 16:22, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

Common sense

Common sense is not particularly common, particularly among the type of people who spend all their waking hours editing Misplaced Pages. The one rule that always seems to be ignored is WP:IAR. I wish you well, but I am afraid that you will not get far with your recent comments. Phil Bridger (talk) 17:30, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

:This is a rude comment Phil Jack4576 (talk) 17:38, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

To open good faith RfCs on the appropriate interpretation of GNG, and to question whether the interpretation of it is appropriate; is not WP:IAR. If I didn’t care about the rules I wouldn’t be engaging with them.

The snide remark re: people who spend all hours editing[REDACTED] is demonstrably false had you bothered to examine my edit history. I live in a different timezone to most editors.

Jack4576 (talk) 17:43, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

Well, that certainly wasn't the response I was expecting to a supportive message, but I still wish you well. Phil Bridger (talk) 18:46, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

Oh, I’m sorry, and I sincerely apologise Phil.

I misread your message, I thought you were trying to tell me that I lack common sense. (and it’s because I edit[REDACTED] all day)

I can see what you were saying now. Thank you for the supportive message. I wish you well too. It’s been a bit of a pile-on today. Jack4576 (talk) 18:53, 13 May 2023 (UTC)

Sports notability

Hi, I noticed you've argued at AfD that meeting GNG/SIGCOV is unnecessary when an athlete meets a sports SNG. The problem with this rationale is that most of the categories under WP:NSPORTS merely predict that significant coverage is likely to exist; WP:SPORTBASIC states the SIGCOV requirement in no uncertain terms. You might be interested in reading the WP:NSPORTS2022 RfC, particularly proposals #3 and #5 where it was decided that participation-based criteria would be eliminated and replaced by GNG. Please refrain from using arguments like "meets (sports SNG)" and be sure to cite actual SIGCOV sources to support your Keep !votes. Let me know if you have any questions or concerns. –dlthewave ☎ 03:10, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Being able to demonstrate with linked sources that GNG/SIGCOV has been met, is indeed unnecessary when one is able to rely on the criteria in WP:NCYCLING to give rise to a presumption that significant coverage likely exists.

As I am allowed to presume under the guidelines that coverage likely exists, it is unnecessary for me to wait for actual evidence of significant coverage to justify my keep vote. This is the effect of the wording regarding presumptions under WP:NSPORT

Jack4576 (talk) 03:24, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

RfCs

Can I ask what WP:RFCBEFORE you did before launching your two notability RfCs? Thanks, Barkeep49 (talk) 04:01, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

The scope of the two notability RfC's are broad

If these RfC's were in relation to specific editorial issues on specific pages, it would have been appropriate to directly engage with the other editor

in this case though, simply discussing the notability with only one other editor would not be an appropriate precursor to making change altering the wording of the notability guidelines. The only appropriate step prior to making a site-wide change of that magnitude is to invite discussion from a variety of editors to obtain consensus; which is why I opened an RfC

Do you think it was premature ? What steps do you think should have been taken beforehand ? For the above reason after reading WP:RFCBEFORE it seemed appropriate; even without one-on-one discussions beforehand on talk pages. Jack4576 (talk) 04:10, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Additionally, the RfCs were about notability policy.

Dispute resolution mechanisms aren't designed to resolve proposals for a change in site-wide policy. Hence I did not pursue dispute resolution. Jack4576 (talk) 04:15, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

I'd have started a discussion on those pages first to see what ideas or improvements interested editors had. Especially because the wording of the SIGCOV RfC is such that it's a general discussion anyway and thus unlikely to be closed with a meaningful consensus reached. Prior discussion might have led to an RfC that could establish an answer to the issue you see. Barkeep49 (talk) 04:17, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks I will keep that in mind prior to any future policy-oriented RfCs Jack4576 (talk) 04:19, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Music Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: All RFCs request for comment

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Nomination of Western Governors University College of Information Technology for deletion

The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Western Governors University College of Information Technology until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

ElKevbo (talk) 13:49, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

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RfCs

Hey, Jack, just FWIW, not every discussion should be an RfC. In fact most shouldn't. Editors at a particular talk page, for instance, can just discuss things. Valereee (talk) 16:25, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Valereee I’ll put things to a talk discussion first in future Jack4576 (talk) 16:39, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Batman comics

When reverting my three PROD's, you mentioned you'd rather see them merged into a list article. Did you have a specific one in mind or would it need to be created? I'm thinking there must be a list of Batman comics somewhere on here... Just Another Cringy Username (talk) 16:38, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the message JACU.

You’re right, there is, I think it’d be good to merge the info onto this List of Batman comics Jack4576 (talk) 16:42, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

And would you look at that; they're already on there. Looks like a redirect would do fine for these. Just Another Cringy Username (talk) 18:16, 14 May 2023 (UTC)

I think it would be good to merge the information from those pages onto the table where appropriate. Merge & redirect Jack4576 (talk) 05:33, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

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Notability and Misplaced Pages

Jack, I have to say your participation on Misplaced Pages in the area surrounding notability policy is really starting to feel a bit disruptive. Here you seem to be arguing that if there is any possibility of any coverage in any language anywhere in the world, we must assume a subject is notable. You are arguing in multiple fora that everyone else is wrong about consensus on notability. You've opened multiple RfCs on notability. You literally opposed an RfA because the candidate agreed with WP policy on notability, and in the ensuing discussion you doubled and tripled down. You've suddenly jumped into 150 AfDs within a few days time after having participated in 2 in your first two years here. It is starting to feel like you are here to WP:RGW. That is disruptive. Valereee (talk) 12:59, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

RGW is about NPOV and none of the opinions I have expressed in AfD are related to that. AfD is about notability, a separate issue.

I was not arguing that "if there is any possibility of any coverage in any language anywhere in the world, we must assume a subject is notable"

not at all

I was arguing that it is important to comply with the policy of WP:BEFORE that local sources are checked.

It is not disruptive to make arguments in AfD with reference to policy.

My RfA oppose vote was withdrawn after I read the feedback. Jack4576 (talk) 14:11, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

I would respectfully ask that you stop pinging me with regard to AfD discussions. That is not an area in which I choose to spend my time, especially on living people. Pinging me means I cannot !vote, but to respond I must spend time to research your query which could be spent on a topic which I have confirmed meets WP's criteria and has been proven throughout history to be notable. It is rare that I choose to participate in an AfD discussion and if I do, it is because I am able to research the subject and confirm that IMO it meets the requirements for the platform. I will usually not respond to debate on my opinion, as each person is entitled to their own. Whether I agree with those policies or not, the project has policies and guidelines that are required for participation. Thank you for your understanding. SusunW (talk) 14:23, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

OK I will refrain, thank you SusunW Jack4576 (talk) 14:26, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

RGW doesn't have to be about NPOV. It can be about policy, too, example here; you made similar arguments at the RfA. And you are in AfDs arguing that you "oppose" the very idea of the AfD until the nominator or someone else has shown you some proof or at least an assertion that they've done an exhaustive search in multiple languages to somehow prove a negative, or throwing in a source you've found as some sort of "Aha! Gotcha!" evidence against them such as this series of edits which made accusations against another editor when you hadn't done your own due diligence in finding sources before writing the article. Valereee (talk) 14:38, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

I'm not asking for proof I'm asking for an assurance that WP:BEFORE has occurred by either:

(1) clarifying the depth of search with the nominator, (where the search isn't described) or,

(2) asking whether a search has been performed at all (where it isn't mentioned)

It isn't disruptive to ask nominators whether the AfD was made properly in an appropriate form.

Secondly, in regard to the Chicago CRED article;

(1) plainly when I wrote that, I thought SIGCOV was already established, as can be seen in the AfD thread

(2) after the AfD nom, I went back and found more; and found sources that showed SIGCOV had unequivocally was met

This caused me to question whether WP:BEFORE had been performed in the first place at all.

Calling any of that good-faith participation disruptive is drawing a very long bow.

It is not disruptive to air subjective and dissenting opinion in an appropriate forum. Jack4576 (talk) 14:44, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

And this AfD !vote? "Keep WP needs more Africa content, even if short; WP:IAR" is completely pointy and very much RGW. Valereee (talk) 15:21, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

That's not an NPOV discussion its a policy / notability discussion. I do think we need to take editorial steps to address WP's balance, it'd be to the betterment of this site Jack4576 (talk) 15:29, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

There's a difference between "I think policy/guidelines are wrong and want them to change" and "here's how I think the existing policies/guidelines should apply." are both OK things but are slightly different - if I think a policy/guideline is wrong (and on some of them I do) I still need to respect what it is now. At times the sense I get from you is "I think policy/guidelines are wrong and so I am going to act like the changes I want already exist." That, for me, is where it's felt like you've sometimes veered into disruption. Barkeep49 (talk) 17:19, 15 May 2023 (UTC)

There’s a third option; “I respect the guidelines as they’re currently written, wish they were written differently, but nevertheless, I disagree with your application of those existing guidelines here”; which is fine too, as it complies with existing guidelines and consensus

Over the last 2 days i’ve stopped arguing that SIGCOV is unnecessary. I admit that may have crossed the line before, and was based on my own misreading of the rules, but since that was pointed out I’ve stopped making that argument in AfDs Jack4576 (talk) 00:20, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

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Civility

Hi. Misplaced Pages is a collaborative project that requires civility. Comments such as this one are unhelpful at best. Please refrain from making such remarks in future. Thanks. _wjemather 11:01, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

it is not uncivil to criticise the effect of Misplaced Pages policy in practice. My comment was not directed at an editor; and is a form of critical support for the Misplaced Pages project.

If you disagree, I don't begrudge you for doing that; but please do not falsely claim that I am being uncivil when I am plainly expressing my views about the application of Misplaced Pages guidelines in a civil manner. I don't find your feedback here helpful and won't be regarding it with much weight. Jack4576 (talk) 11:08, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Characterising the actions of other editors or the community as "...wicked, and vile" goes way beyond reasonable criticism of how the project functions with respect to notability; such comments are not compatible with behavioural policy. _wjemather 11:26, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

I respectfully disagree Jack4576 (talk) 12:26, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

A barnstar for you!

	The Surreal Barnstar
	Your !vote on Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/KaSelly was to die for! UtherSRG (talk) 12:06, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Thank you User:UtherSRG

I’m trying to participate to AfDs in good faith, I think it best to offer criticism of the problems of WP policy with a bit of humour

It’s a new approach, and it helps me keep things civil when discussing / calling out some of the editorial biases on this site Jack4576 (talk) 12:34, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

I second what UtherSRG said. Nothing wrong with showing regret for an article excluded by notability guidelines, with a splash of humour. Spiderone 18:44, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

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African cycling champs

FYI WP:NCYC number 5 says "Won a UCI category race (minimum classification 1.1 / 2.1, including Continental and National Championships)." The African champs is a continental championship so it is already included in the Cycling notability criteria. Paulpat99 (talk) 20:48, 16 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks Paul. Some were arguing in AFDs the other day that the African Continental Championship doesn't count as a UCI-organised race Jack4576 (talk) 09:15, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Weird cause the winner can wear the African Champs jersey in UCI races. https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/henok-mulubrhan/statistics/overview Here you can see Mulbrhan wore the African champ jersey at Bardiani in 2022. Paulpat99 (talk) 09:27, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

They were probably ignorant, thank you for pointing me to that link; I'll keep it for reference. It's sadly typical for AfD to be trigger happy for articles about subjects outside the global north Jack4576 (talk) 09:45, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Agriculture, food and drink Good Article nomination

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Law articles

Hi Jack! I'm seeing you around a fair bit at the moment. I also note that you and I are pretty much alone in creating and editing Auslaw content. Given we are both Australian law degree holders and appear to share similar interests, I'd be very happy to collaborate on bringing an Australian case to GA status with you. We are in the same hemisphere and editing time-zone which helps. I've gotten three of these through alone so far. I know that some of your editing has attracted the attention of others lately (I make no comment on whether or not the attention is fair or deserved, merely that it has happened). Beavering away on some Auslaw might be a great chance to get away from it, and I would actually like an Auslaw trained colleague here. Let me know if you are interested. I was thinking Hollis v Vebu might be worthwhile. You have a talent for writing caselaw articles, and I hope you keep writing these. — MaxnaCarta  ( 💬 • 📝 ) 05:52, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Evening Maxna, nice of you to reach out. Have enjoyed your contributions in recent years

That sounds good to me. Hollis v Vabu is a great candidate for the effort I’d agree. Others with some potential for GA I think are Briginshaw, Fox v Percy, and Farah Constructions

Happy to have a go at working on this together. I have a mate coming round for drinks tonight, i’ll have some time over the coming days Jack4576 (talk) 07:24, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

Absolutely agree. Never heard of Fox and Percy but they all sound good. I’d love to see all the popular high court cases brought up to GA! They’re the ones students will be looking for and will get good viewership. — MaxnaCarta  ( 💬 • 📝 ) 09:50, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

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Conduct on AfD and civility

Jack, I'm starting to get very concerned about your continued conduct on AfD. I believe that you have made good contributions to Australian law, and I understand that people have differing opinions regarding what should be on Misplaced Pages. What concerns me is your !votes being based on tenuous arguments, or against policy altogether. I also have concerns about civility, such as asking non-Australians to not comment on Australian AfDs, which, as an Australian myself, is plain and simple gatekeeping. Your frequent "Pfft" comments towards other editors when they don't agree with you, while not a personal attack, is snarky at best. You've already had conversations with myself, @Wjemather:, @Valereee: and numerous other editors just in your talk page regarding your standards of notability and civility.

It is my opinion that you are here to WP:RGW and WP:POINT. Please take this as a final warning about your conduct, if you continue, I will bring this to WP:AN/I. JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 00:47, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Consider your 'final warning' ignored. Feel free to nominate at your convenience

Jack4576 (talk) 03:25, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

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May 2023

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 05:47, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

WikiLawyer Jack4576 (talk) 06:12, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

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Feedback request: Art and architecture Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: History Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Warfare Good Article nomination

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Please archive

Hello! I just wanted to request that you archive your user talk page. While it may not be bothersome to you, many editors have slow connections, and having a very large talk page can hamper communication. If you need help, just check out the guide over at Help:Archiving a talk page. Thanks! – MaterialWorks 13:15, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Music Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Media and drama Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Music Good Article nomination

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Good article reassessment for How to Rule Your Own Country: The Weird and Wonderful World of Micronations

How to Rule Your Own Country: The Weird and Wonderful World of Micronations has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 22:43, 21 May 2023 (UTC)

Targeting another editor is disruptive editing. You’ve been warned Jack4576 (talk) 00:57, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Music Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: History Good Article nomination

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Nomination of William Street Bird for deletion

The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/William Street Bird until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 02:45, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

ANI Notice

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you.  // Timothy :: talk  03:14, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

You've overplayed your hand this time, WikiLawyer Jack4576 (talk) 05:34, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Feedback requests from the Feedback Request Service

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Topic ban imposed

Hello. Per this ANI complaint, you are now subject to an indefinite topic ban (WP:TBAN) from AfD. The sanction has been logged at WP:RESTRICT. Please see WP:UNBAN for your appeal options. If you have any questions about this sanction, please ping me here rather than starting a new discussion on my talk page (I'd like to avoid split discussions). Thanks. El_C 06:04, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Thanks El_C. I think there are serious questions about the ban discussion and closure and have filed a case request. Jack4576 (talk) 06:30, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

NP, but as I mention there, this was a community sanction, not an ArbCom-authorized one (i.e. logged at WP:RESTRICT rather than at WP:AEL), so you appealed at the wrong venue. El_C 06:35, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Please. "Bans imposed by the community may be appealed ... where there are serious questions about the validity of the ban discussion or its closure, to the Arbitration Committee"

per: WP:UNBAN

Jack4576 (talk) 06:41, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

So, it's not a normal appeal, then? I'm not sure I follow why that is, but okay. El_C 06:58, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Appeal withdrawn, I will do a normal appeal first Jack4576 (talk) 07:05, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

What do you mean by first? El_C 07:19, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

I still believe "there are serious questions about the validity of the ban discussion or its closure", however as ArbCom is only to be used as a last resort, it appropriate to appeal to the community at ANI first. Jack4576 (talk) 07:22, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

So, if the community were to decline your appeal, then you'll try ArbCom? Also, you have not tried discussing the substance of the sanction with me, instead you filed appeal/s directly. I think I could have answered at least some of your questions/concerns. Oh well. El_C 07:32, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Yes. As I believe the substance of your closure was seriously questionable.

Why would I discuss "the substance of the sanction with" you (?)

You provided your reasons in your closing statement, I think they're seriously questionable. There's nothing to discuss with you, unless you have further reasons to provide. Jack4576 (talk) 07:34, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

The closure was basically the only outcome that was going to result from that discussion as it stood. Further WP:IDHT behavior on your part is just going to make getting the sanction lifted at a later date more difficult. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 11:20, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

What IDHT behaviour ?

I wasn’t the only person who questioned that consensus as an outcome, but I’m done litigating this. Let’s all give it a rest Jack4576 (talk) 11:23, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Nomination of Companion rule (Australian Criminal law) for deletion

The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Companion rule (Australian Criminal law) until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article until the discussion has finished.

JML1148 (Talk | Contribs) 08:21, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Oh I'm welcome to contribute am I? Jack4576 (talk) 08:31, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Now that's an interesting question. @El C, comment? I think I've seen restrictions like with the caveat "...excepting articles they started."

But as currently written, no your are not. The above message is automatic and doesn't "know" about topic bans. Gråbergs Gråa Sång (talk) 09:09, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

advice re t-bans

Hey, Jack, I hope you'll consider this friendly-if-unasked-for advice, but when someone warns you that you may be violating your topic ban, even if you think they're incorrect (and in this case they were), your best bet is to ask an admin familiar with your t-ban for an opinion before posting in the same discussion again. T-bans can be taken pretty seriously, and the typical response to repeated violations is an indefinite full block from editing anything except your own user talk for purposes of appealing the block. Many admins will try to give you a couple of chances to figure out the boundaries, but the safest bet is always to ask. Valereee (talk) 16:08, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Feedback requests from the Feedback Request Service

Your feedback is requested at Talk:Maurice Duplessis and Talk:Premiership of Maurice Duplessis on "Social sciences and society" Good Article nominations. Thank you for helping out!
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Blocked

I have blocked you for 24 hours due to disruptive editing and casting aspersions on other editors. Eight hours after being topic banned from AfD due to battleground behavior, you posted this comment. It shows the same exact issues that lead to your topic ban. Continuing down the path of seeing Misplaced Pages as a war between opposing sides rather than as a group of people trying to produce the best encyclopedia possible will lead to your eventual ejection from the project. If you would like to appeal this block you can use the {{unblock}} template. -- Guerillero 19:33, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Jack, you have a law degree for crying out loud. If you were to have this same conduct in a courtroom, you would probably be held in contempt of court in no time. Try to act as collegiately as you would if you were in a courtroom. It will do you very good. You can be better. X750. Spin a yarn? _{Articles I've screwed over?} 20:59, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

This was a comment on a policy proposal change re: policy and I think it was fair comment, especially since it was not directed at any particular editor

WP is not a courtroom, and editors are not judges. It’s a little overwrought to draw the analogy tbqh

Nevertheless, next time i’ll refrain from calling people saboteurs Jack4576 (talk) 22:55, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

No, I wasn't trying to analogize the editors. The analogy was meant to emphasize the collegial atmosphere we need to maintain. But thanks for taking it to heart. It'll do you good. If someone really does rile you up, sometimes it's better just to step away. Closing the tab is only a single click, but it can be hard to resist the temptation go lash out. Godspeed. X750. Spin a yarn? _{Articles I've screwed over?} 22:59, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Noted X750 thank you Jack4576 (talk) 23:12, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

• Hi, Jack! I noticed you've put a semi-retired banner on your user page, and as someone who has been indef blocked in the past under kinda similar circumstances, I have to say I think that you did make a very wise decision, and if you take a break to think things over for a while, it will serve you very well. I hope that after you mull things over, and get the right perspective so you can think critically, and logically about the situation, it will help you be able to easily interpret things in ways that will empower you to come back as a better editor who is able to hold a difference of opinion, but still get along with others. (This is advice I could use myself too so it must be good) lol. Huggums537 (talk) 01:22, 24 May 2023 (UTC)
• P.S. Also, you should give yourself some time to think about your appeal. You made lots of articles. I understand they've moved one to draft, and nominated a few for deletion, but you've got lots of them, and there are good editors who think and believe in the same values that are voting on the same side you would, so take your time and have no worries because from what I can see the ones that got nominated were mostly kept. Keep that in mind. Huggums537 (talk) 02:20, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

  Thank you Huggums I really appreciate your messages above Jack4576 (talk) 07:14, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Social sciences and society Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Art and architecture Good Article nomination

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Feedback requests from the Feedback Request Service

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Feedback request: Engineering and technology Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Social sciences and society Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Media and drama Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Engineering and technology Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Natural sciences Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Social sciences and society Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Language and literature Good Article nomination

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Feedback request: Geography and places Good Article nomination

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ANI discussion May 24

There is currently a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue with which you may have been involved. Thank you. _signed, Rosguill 18:54, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Engineering and technology Good Article nomination

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Deletion discussion about Borkonyha Winekitchen

Hello, Jack4576, and welcome to Misplaced Pages. I edit here too, under the username AirshipJungleman29, and I thank you for your contributions.

I wanted to let you know, however, that I've started a discussion about whether an article that you created, Borkonyha Winekitchen, should be deleted, as I am not sure that it is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages in its current form. Your comments are welcome at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Borkonyha Winekitchen.

You might like to note that such discussions usually run for seven days and are not votes. And, our guide about effectively contributing to such discussions is worth a read. Last but not least, you are highly encouraged to continue improving the article; just be sure not to remove the tag about the deletion nomination from the top.

If you have any questions, please leave a comment here and prepend it with {{Re|AirshipJungleman29}}. And, don't forget to sign your reply with ~~~~ . Thanks!

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~~ AirshipJungleman29 (talk) 22:39, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

I’m topic banned on AfD so no Jack4576 (talk) 22:43, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

May 2023

I've blocked you for teasing around the edge of your topic ban, continuing the battleground editing that led to the topic ban, and refusing to remedy the issues with your editing that has been pointed out to you by the community. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 23:27, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Great, now I’m unable to defend myself at the ANI.

I’m unable to point out that the Good Article Review raised as problematic by an editor was actually made before my prior discussion and ban

Well done. The goon squad out in force today I see

Jack4576 (talk) 23:41, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

Feedback request: Social sciences and society Good Article nomination

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