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The following references may be useful when improving this article in the future: "Why now is the perfect time to get into jazz". BBC. 2020. Retrieved 9 September 2020.

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Earlier uses of the word "jazz"

I have found earlier uses of the word jazz, although not in newspapers. The reliance on newspaper uses is misguided for several reasons: (1) "jazz," "jass," "jaz" and "jas" had vulgar connotations, and would not make it past an editor on a newspaper of general circulation; (2) it is highly unlikely that California newspapers had Black reporters or editors in the first decade of the twentieth century to inform the white sports reporters what the word "jazz" meant--one of the California articles cited simply throws up its hands and say "'Jazz' stands for whatever you want it to." (June 22, 1913 San Francisco paper); (3) baseball teams also weren't integrated at the time, so unlikely there would have been any Black players around to set their white teammates/coaches straight.

The earlier uses I have found are as follow:

1. Gunther Schuller interview of George Morrison, born in 1891 in Fayette, Missouri. Morrison says he first heard the word "jazz" in 1911--and says he remembers the year clearly because it was also the year of his marriage. This interview appears in Schuller's "Early Jazz: Its Roots and Musical Development," p. 362. Morrison painted the word "Jazz" on the side of the car that he used to drive his band to gigs.

2. Ray Lopez, New Orleans trumpeter, told Samuel Charters he first heard the term in 1912 in New Orleans, "Trumpet Around the Corner: The Story of New Orleans Jazz," p. 117. He says he heard it at a vaudeville rehearsal.

3. Wilbur Sweatman, born in 1882 in Brunswick, Missouri, told Jelly Roll Morton that he invented jazz before Morton, playing in the Ozarks in Missouri, John Szwed, liner notes to Jelly Roll Morton: The Library of Congress Recordings by Alan Lomax, Rounder Records CD 11661-1897-2, citing Roy Carew interview on deposit at the University of Chicago. Sweatman was nearly a decade older than Morton; the most extensive account of his life is "That's Got 'Em: The Life and Music of Wilbur C. Sweatman," Mark Berresford, University Press of Mississippi, 2010.

The Indianapolis Freeman, the Variety Magazine of the Black vaudeville circuit, reported in 1906 that Sweatman was playing jazz as early as 1906: "Little did we think that Mr. Sweatman's original style of playing would be adopted by the great jazz artists of today; but it is and Mr. Sweatman can claim the honor of being the first to establish it."

Sweatman was playing jazz as early as 1902 as a member of P.G. Lowery's Concert Band playing with the Forepaugh and Sells Bros. sideshow. He probably developed the style in the pre-circus parades through the streets of the towns where the circus was performing (known in the trade as a "ballyhoo"). His playing in these parades created a "sensation," according to Tom Fletcher, 100 Years of the Negro in Show Business, New York: Da Capo Press, 1984. Of these improvised variations on standard songs, one author said "it is unlikely that a faithful realization of a standard marching band clarinet part would have caused such a sensation.

W.C. Handy called Sweatman a jazz pioneer, W.C. Handy: Father of the Blues, p. 153 (New York: Collier Books, 1941). Sweatman recorded "Down Home Rag" in December, 1916, several weeks before the February, 1917 session by the Original Dixieland Jass Band that produced what some describe as the first jazz recordings. Sweatman was referring to his brand of music as "jazz" as early as 1912 and possibly 1910 (Berresford, 106-07, and Abbott & Seroff, The Original Blues: The Emergence of the Blues in African-American Vaudeville, 1899-1926, University Press of Mississippi).

My conclusion is that the baseball origin story has things exactly backwards. Jazz or jass was being played in New Orleans in the 19th century, and itinerant musicians who left the city took it with them, where it was heard by musicians elsewhere, particularly up the Mississippi and Missouri rivers to the Kansas City area. It eventually spread to the west coast, where white baseball players and sportswriters, unaware of its local meaning but associating it with uptempo jazz music spread to California by Jelly Roll Morton and others, transferred the term "jazz" stripped of its obscene meanings to baseball, where in a denatured form it meant simply "pep." Similar things have happened with other terms that were originally developed in Black speech: "uptight" was used by Stevie Wonder in a 1965 song to mean "good" (a cleaned-up version of the many "tight like that" blues songs that referred to sexual satisfaction), then came to mean "nervous" or "anxious" when used by white speakers.

I am the author of "Rabbit's Blues: The Life and Music of Johnny Hodges"; "Kansas City Jazz: A Little Evil Will Do You Good" (in which some of the above research appears); and "Don Byas: Sax Expatriate," to be published by University Press of Mississippi in 2024.

Con Chapman 617/909-5286 Conchapman (talk) 15:18, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

@Conchapman: Interesting (and thanks for your work on the Hodges book – it's on my list of things to read). The summary in this article is of the Jazz (word) article, where some of the historical haze you describe is covered, although largely with different examples. The summary is broadly in line with what you assert: it was "related to jasm, a slang term dating back to 1860 meaning 'pep, energy'", then the baseball link refers to the "earliest written record" – "written" being important. Perhaps a fuller summary would add non-written accounts between the jasm and baseball accounts, although I think it would be best as something general such as 'several anecdotal accounts attest to the word "jazz" being used prior to 1912 to refer to a style of music', given that a lot of the musicians of the time had a tendency towards self-aggrandisement, so some of the specific claims might look fanciful. EddieHugh (talk) 18:02, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

Suggested additional text for the Diversity in Jazz: Jews in Jazz section to include Shep Fields

Cioa fellow Misplaced Pages editors: Just a quick suggestion of additional text and references for the section entitled Diversity in Jazz: Jews in Jazz. The following text might be helpful:

Shep Fields also helped to popularize "Sweet" Jazz music through his appearances and Big band remote broadcasts from such landmark venues as Chicago's Palmer House, Broadway's Paramount Theater and the Starlight Roof at the famed Waldorf-Astoria Hotel. He entertained audiences with a light elegant musical style which remained popular with audiences for nearly three decades from the 1930s until the late 1950s.

I hope it proves useful. Many thanks for your consideration and Happy Editing!160.72.80.178 (talk) 23:56, 20 November 2023 (UTC)NHPL

1. The Telegraph, Feb. 24, 1981 p. 9 Shep Field Obituary on Google
2. The Big Bands - 4th Edition George T. Simon. Schirmer Trade Books, London, 2012 ISBN 978-0-85712-812-6 "Shep Fields Biography" on Books.google.com
3. "SHEP FIELDS, LEADER OF BIG BAND KNOWEN FOR RIPPLING RYTHEM (Published 1981)". The New York Times. 24 February 1981. Retrieved 28 October 2020.

160.72.80.178 (talk) 23:56, 20 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi Protected Edit Request for Jazz

This edit request has been answered. Set the |answered= or |ans= parameter to no to reactivate your request.

Cioa fellow Misplaced Pages editors: Just a quick suggestion of additional text and references to be added to the section entitled Diversity in Jazz: Jews in Jazz. The following text might be helpful:

Shep Fields also helped to popularize "Sweet" Jazz music through his appearances and Big band remote broadcasts from such landmark venues as Chicago's Palmer House, Broadway's Paramount Theater and the Starlight Roof at the famed Waldorf-Astoria Hotel. He entertained audiences with a light elegant musical style which remained popular with audiences for nearly three decades from the 1930s until the late 1950s.

I hope it proves useful. Many thanks for your consideration and Happy Editing!160.72.80.178 (talk) 23:56, 20 November 2023 (UTC)NHPL

1. The Telegraph, Feb. 24, 1981 p. 9 Shep Field Obituary on Google
2. The Big Bands - 4th Edition George T. Simon. Schirmer Trade Books, London, 2012 ISBN 978-0-85712-812-6 "Shep Fields Biography" on Books.google.com
3. "SHEP FIELDS, LEADER OF BIG BAND KNOWEN FOR RIPPLING RYTHEM (Published 1981)". The New York Times. 24 February 1981. Retrieved 28 October 2020.

160.72.80.178 (talk) 23:56, 20 November 2023 (UTC) 160.72.80.178 (talk) 00:00, 21 November 2023 (UTC)

I don't know who makes the final decision, but this seems like a reasonable request to me. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 14:39, 23 November 2023 (UTC)

Where should it be added? M.Bitton (talk) 20:04, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

OP has suggested adding it to "Jews in jazz" --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 20:52, 24 November 2023 (UTC)

 Done By the way, SelfieCity, as long as you have the proper privileges for editing a page, if you see an edit request that you think looks acceptable, please do feel free to make the decision and implement it on your own. In many cases, editors who frequent pages about specialized topics are more likely to have more knowledge about those topics than those of us (like me and M.Bitton) who watch for and respond to edit requests. As such, they are in a better position to evaluate and implement such changes.

(Though, in this specific case, I do have specialized knowledge regarding jazz music.)

-- Pinchme123 (talk) 03:29, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Cool, thanks for letting me know! I'll keep that in mind in future. --Comment by Selfie City (talk about my contributions) 14:19, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Semi-Protected Edit Request in Jazz to include a link to Mike Danzi

It is requested that an edit be made to the semi-protected article at Jazz. (edit · history · last · links · protection log) This template must be followed by a complete and specific description of the request, that is, specify what text should be removed and a verbatim copy of the text that should replace it. "Please change X" is not acceptable and will be rejected; the request must be of the form "please change X to Y". The edit may be made by any autoconfirmed user. Remember to change the |answered=no parameter to "yes" when the request has been accepted, rejected or on hold awaiting user input. This is so that inactive or completed requests don't needlessly fill up the edit requests category. You may also wish to use the {{ESp}} template in the response. To request that a page be protected or unprotected, make a protection request.

Cio Fellow Editors: Just another quick suggestion for additional text to be added into the paragraph DIVERSITY IN JAZZ: JAZZ AND RACE after the sentence: The original Dixeland Jazz Band, whose members were white, were the first jazz group to record....

One can add the sentence===> In New York City, Mike Danzi is credited as being one of several white musicians who contributed to the introduction of the jazz genre into Germany's Weimar Republic during the early 1920s.

1. Jazz Research and Performance Materials. Meadows, Eddie S. p. 121 Michael Danzi on Google Books
2. Jazz Research and Pedagogy. Meadows, Eddie S. Talyor & Francis 2013 p. 113 ISBN 9781136776038 Biography #485 of Michael Danzi on Google Books
3. Review of "American Musician in Germany, 1942-1939 Memoirs of the Jazz, Entertainment and Movie World in Berlin During the Weimar Republic and the Nazi Era-and in the United States", American Music, Vol. 6 No. 1 (Spring 198) p. 98-102 Memoirs of Michael Danzi on JSTOR.org

I Hope it also proves to be helpful! Ciao 160.72.80.178 (talk) 17:29, 25 November 2023 (UTC)NHPL

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. The only source actually provided for this edit is the memoirs of Mike Danzi himself, and thus a primary source. The links are to two annotated bibliographic entries summarizing his memoir, and to a review of the same. The following are excerpts from that review:

The reader should be warned that the book ... is vastly underedited: misspellings, misusage, and errors in grammar and punctuation abound.

And the book is loaded with "factual" information, recalled by Danzi in miraculous detail without the aid of his correspondence, scrapbooks, and diaries, which he destroyed after his wife's death in 1956. None of Danzi's "facts" can therefore be accepted at face value without corroborative evidence

This review specifically cautions against relying solely on Danzi's memoir for factual statements. The review itself says nothing about Danzi as being credited with the process of introducing jazz to Germany's Weimar Republic. So this edit will require reliable (preferably secondary) sources beyond Danzi's memoir for support.

-- Pinchme123 (talk) 03:43, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

Ciao Pinchmel123: Many thanks for the expert insights--Quite correct-- several of the references cited above are in fact reviews of Danzi's autobiography. Sorry about that --they seemed relevant. For what it might be worth, it should also be noted, however, that his autobiography has been routinely used "with caution" as a primary source of information by various scholars of Jazz over the years despite the misspellings, errors in grammar and punctuation cited above. (See "Mike Danzi" on JSTOR & Google Books for the use of his book as a reference source in the bibliographies of numerous scholarly articles/books about Jazz in Europe in the early 20th century). Admittedly, accurate documentation from this period is somewhat problematic, largely due to the attempts by the Nazi regime to suppress the evolution of Jazz, which it characterized as a degenerate art form--a situation which Danzi appears to have encountered quite often while in Germany for an extended period of time prior to World War II. In any case, here are a few more reference citations from additional independent sources which may prove to be relevant and supportive of the suggested additional text. I hope they help. Thanks again for your help and Happy editing.. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 160.72.80.178 (talk) 20:03, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

1. Mike Danzi on JSTOR
2. Mike Danzi on Google Books
3. Kater, Michael H., Different Drummers: Jazz in the Culture of Nazi Germany: Introduction the Ambiguous Culture Jazz in the Weimar Republic (New York, 2003; online edn, Oxford Academic, 1 Jan. 2010), https://doi.org/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780195165531.001.0001, accessed 14 Nov. 2023. Mike Danzi's important influence native German colleagues and transplanted Anglo-Americans..."(See https://academic.oup.com/book/41759?searchresult=1) on academic.oup
4. Kater, Michael H., Different Drummers: Jazz in the Culture of Nazi Germany: Introduction the Ambiguous Culture Jazz in the Weimar Republic (New York, 2003; online edn, Oxford Academic, 1 Jan. 2010), https://doi.org/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780195165531.001.0001, accessed 14 Nov. 2023. Mike Danzi recalls the reluctance on the part of his German pals, who wanted to play with him but now feared official repercussions" (See https://academic.oup.com/book/41759?searchresult=1) on academic.oup
5. Phonographic Bulletin Issues 44-52 International Association of Sound Archives 1986 p. 49 Mike Danzi on Google Books
6. Wickstrom, David-Emil, Ringsmut, Martin, Seibt, Oliver. Made In Germany Studies in Popular Music Taylor 7 Francis Sept. 22, 202o ebook Transnational and Intermedial Aspects of a National Popular Music Group in the 1920s: The Comedian Harmonists - "Michael Danzi arrived in Germany (1924) to record with various German orchestras...and would stay until the outbreak of World War II in 1939.om Google Books
7. Kater, Michael. Different Drummers Jazz in the Culture of Nazi Germany. Oxford University Press New York 1992 ebook 2003 p. 139 "Probably the last alien jazz musician to leave Nazi Germany was American Jazz guitarist Mike Danzi, whos was harassed before he and his family could sail for New York ...in 1939" Mike Danzi on Google Books
8. Popel, Anthony. Cook, Nicholas. Editors. The Cambridge History of Twentieth Century Music. Cambridge University Press Cambridge 2004 p. 172 "...white performers like American banjoist Michael Danzi and violinist Alex Hyde perfromed and recorded in Berlin. Danzi performed with a number of highly regarded German band leaders including Erno Rapee..." Mike Danzi on Google Books
9. Wolfer, Jurgen. Jazz in Germany The Lexicon all musicians and record companies from 1920 to today. Hannibal 2008 p. 71 Mike Danzi Biography on Google Books

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Linking to search results, more generic reviews of books (rather than the book itself?), and instances where Danzi's name is mentioned in print will not help. In my opinion you'll need to provide page-specific references from reliable secondary sources that support the language you've requested be added to this article. That means the pages of specific sources that support the claim that Danzi contributed to introducing jazz to Germany during the time period in question, not just that he performed in Germany. (For me, an exception to the page-specific part of this would be articles or books that are clearly entirely about Danzi introducing jazz to Germany in the '20s.) It would also probably be useful to also see sources that emphasize his race/ethnicity, since the language you've proposed highlights it. --Pinchme123 (talk) 21:01, 26 November 2023 (UTC)

===>>A very intriguing discussion about a murky period in the history of Jazz as it evolved in Europe. One possible solution to the scarcity of "page specific secondary reference sources" might be to amend the proposed additional text to the following:

In addition, several Anglo-American musicians such as Mike Danzi influenced the development of the Jazz genre in Germany during the early days of the Weimar Republic in the 1920s. The following reference citations from the book Different Drummers: Jazz Culture of Nazi Germany (Publisher Oxford University Press, sorry but a specific page is not available on this ebook) & Phonographic Bulletin (Publisher International Association of Sound Archives, Pg. 49) and the article "The Jazz Experience in Weimar Germany" (Publihser Oxford University Press pp. 145-158) might be helpful in this regard. I hope some of this is helpful Cia!160.72.81.86 (talk) 18:08, 27 November 2023 (UTC)GCL

1. "The Jazz Experience in Weimar Germany" Kater, Michael. German History, Oxford University Press, Vol. 6 Issue 2 (1 April, 1988) pp. 145-158 "American Jazz was imported into Germany in the early 1920s...some two to five years after it had entered Britain or France...genuine American Jazz musicians (such as)... Mike Danzi embarked on a German tour with American bandleader Alex Hyde before deciding to make Berlin his permanent European base....As the great majority of German musicians still found jazz very difficult to master, it was Americans and a few Englishmen who came to dominate the jazz scene of the Roaring Twenties..." See https://doi.org/10.1093/gh/6.2.145 on academic.oup.com
2. Phonographic Bulletin Issues 44-52 International Association of Sound Archives 1986 p. 49 "During the 1920s a number of British and American musicians were responsible for bringing Jazz to Germany....Many stayed on to play with local dancebands and as studio musicians. Hence the obscurity of such figures as Mike Danzi..." on Google Books
3. Kater, Michael H., Different Drummers: Jazz in the Culture of Nazi Germany: Introduction the Ambiguous Culture Jazz in the Weimar Republic (New York, 2003; online edn, Oxford Academic, 1 Jan. 2010), https://doi.org/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780195165531.001.0001, accessed 14 Nov. 2023. "Among those who stayed, American banjoist and guitarist Mike Danzi was probably the most important....because of the length of time he remained in Germany and his influence on native German colleagues and transplanted Anglo-Americans" (See Oxford Scholarship online at https://academic.oup.com/book/41759?searchresult=1) on academic.oup
4. The Kurt Weill Newsletter - Books "An American Musician in Berlin" by Geoffrey Abbott. The Kurt Weill Foundation for Music, New York 1987 p. 19 Biography of Mike Danzi and book review "In 1923 he (Danzi) went to Germany and established himself as Berlin's foremost banjo player throughout the roaring Twenties and into the Thirties....Danzi's uniquely rich experience as a leading musician in two important cities necessarily remains essential for the historian and the popular music scholar..." Mike Danzi on Google Books

Semi-protected Edit request in Jazz to include Guy Lombardo

Ciao fellow editors; Kindly consider including the following text at the start of the section The Jazz Age following the paragraph In 1924, Louis Armstrong joined the Fletcher Henderson dance band for a year... to include the text: By 1924, one of Armstrong's favorite "Sweet" big bands was also formed in Canada by Guy Lombardo. His Royal Canadians Orchestra specialized in performances of "the Sweetest music this side of Heaven" which remain popular with audiences in the United States and internationally for three decades until 1954.

Enjoy160.72.81.86 (talk) 21:48, 27 November 2023 (UTC)GCL

1. Wald, Elijah (September 2012). "Louis Armstrong Loves Guy Lombardo". In Ake, David; Garret, Charles; Goldmark, Daniel (eds.). Jazz/Not Jazz: The Music and Its Boundaries. University of California Press Online. p. 31. doi:10.1525/california/9780520271036.003.0003. ISBN 9780520271036. Louis Armstrong often referred to Guy Lombardo's Royal Canadians as his favorite band, but this fact is rarely cited and almost never pursued.Critics and historians who celebrate African American music tend to dismiss Lombardo's music as boring, mainstream pap, unworthy to be treated alongside the masterpieces of Armstrong or Duke Ellington. Thus, while celebrating Armstrong, they ignore his musical opinion—and that of the public, which made Lombardo's orchestra the most popular dance band not only of white America, but also at Harlem's Savoy Ballroom. How have such prejudices affected our views of the past? How has our understanding of black musicians been limited by an insistence that they fit modern definitions of hipness or authenticity?
2. Crump, William D. Encyclopedia of New Year's Holidays Worldwide. McFarland & Co. Publishers. London. 2008 p. 101 ISBN 978-0-7864-3393-3 Guy Lombardo on Google Books
3. Guy Lombardo Biography on allmusic.com
4. Auld Acquaintance: An Autobiography. Lombardo, Guy. Altshul, Jack. Doubleday 1975 on Google books.com

160.72.81.86 (talk) 21:48, 27 November 2023 (UTC)

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