User talk:Andy Dingley: Difference between revisions

Browse history interactively ← Previous edit Next edit →Content deleted Content addedVisual WikitextInline

Revision as of 18:18, 20 December 2023 editZH8000 (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users22,139 edits →Europlug Tag: Reverted← Previous edit		Revision as of 18:20, 20 December 2023 edit undoZH8000 (talk \| contribs)Extended confirmed users22,139 editsm Undid revision 1190932892 by ZH8000 (talk) Oh pardon, I thought I was on my own talk page. LOLTag: Undo Next edit →
Line 245:		Line 245:
	== Europlug ==		== Europlug ==

			Rewireable Europlugs are freely available and obtainable from many suppliers. Just one from the 72,400 Google hits. ] (]) 17:55, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
	<small>Moved to correct place. -- ] (]) 18:18, 20 December 2023 (UTC)</small>
			* Thanks for that. However see the recent changes from {{ping\|ZH8000}}. Rewireable Europlugs may be available (as are 'Europlug sockets', despite those being outside the standard) and if CPC is selling them then I expect that they'll even be conformant to some standard somewhere (some of CPC's products are at the 'bargain end' of production, but they're legal). Note though that although these are wireable they are not rewireable by the definition of the standard (and are presumably thus standards compliant), despite how the product description describes them. A non-rewireable plug is one that can't be re-wired by the consumer: it is wired once, ''by the manufacturer'', and then closed and insulated such that there is no defined method of re-opening or re-wiring it afterwards. Many of CPC's products are not intended for retail uses, but for manufacture.
			: To put it simply: CPC sells non-rewireable plugs, which the maker's documentation describes as rewireable.
			: I haven't read these standards enough to state authoritatively if 'non-rewireable' means that they ''cannot'' be rewired and it is prevented, or less rigidly so that rewiring is just not a supported operation (and a fully rewireable version would also be compliant, even though this is outside the spec). But that doesn't matter here.
			: The situation is more complex than a simple word, or lack of, can address. Maybe we need to write a fuller statement to try and clarify it all. ] (]) 20:01, 19 December 2023 (UTC)
			: Oh, additionally they're Class II, ''not'' Class III. Please be careful not to change that. ] (]) 20:05, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

			::You completely miss that the addition in the lede is not compliant with ]. Neither is the addition of the reference as they are not permitted in the lede. It is not encyclopaedic to try to claim that the plugs can only be permanently attached to a power cord when rewireable plugs exist in abundance. CPC is not the only supplier. It is more difficult to find a supplier who does not supply them. RS and Farnell are just two respected sources of many.

			::Europlugs are frequently encountered as part of a plug in power supply without a power cord betwixt the plug and supply. Apple is a notable source. These supplies have to be UKCA compliant in the UK so a supporting standard does exist. The European CE requirements only apply to the power supply part and not the plug (The low voltage directive specifically states that the CE marking scheme excludes domestic plugs and sockets). ] (]) 16:11, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
			::* You still haven't shown an example of a rewireable plug.
			::: Citing LEDE like this is just sophistry to try and justify your content-change pushing.
			::: I'm not familiar with Apple products. Are you referring here to their multi-standard Euro adapter (too short to have a cable)? I can't see how that changes anything: it's still not a rewirable plug.
			::: Just for clarity, are you now or have you ever been either of {{u\|I B Wright}} or {{u\|Bhtpbank}}? Your editing style seems so familiar. ] (]) 16:32, 20 December 2023 (UTC)
			::::Just Google “Rewireable Europlug” for yourself. As I said, it only returns over 72,000 hits but I grant that may be a degree of overlap.

			::::Apple iPhones and iPads are (or were) sold throughout Europe with a charger that had a built in Europlug much like anything else sold that was rechargeable. I have examples made by Apple, Bose, Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, LG and Sennheisser plus a bucket full of other examples left over from my time in Brussels.

			::::As for your assertion: I will have to pass on that one as I have no idea what your angle is. ] (]) 17:44, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

	== Merry Christmas! ==		== Merry Christmas! ==

Revision as of 18:20, 20 December 2023

Nomination of Bridge rail for deletion

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article Bridge rail is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages according to Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Bridge rail until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Users may edit the article during the discussion, including to improve the article to address concerns raised in the discussion. However, do not remove the article-for-deletion notice from the top of the article.

Rolls-Royce C Range Diesels

Hi Andy

You may remember some years ago (2015?) we had a conversation about the correct title for Rolls-Royce C type diesels - "Range" or "Series". I did mange to find a photo on the www of an RR engine makes plate. This shows that they are "C Range". You can find the photo on the following page: https://www.trms.org.au/rm_engine_frame.htm

Regards Bruce

Speedy deletion nomination of Internally riffled boiler tubes

A tag has been placed on Internally riffled boiler tubes requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done under section R3 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a recently created redirect from an implausible typo or misnomer, or other unlikely search term.

If you think this page should not be deleted for this reason, you may contest the nomination by visiting the page and clicking the button labelled "Contest this speedy deletion". This will give you the opportunity to explain why you believe the page should not be deleted. However, be aware that once a page is tagged for speedy deletion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag from the page yourself, but do not hesitate to add information in line with Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines.

New Page Patrol newsletter October 2022

Hello Andy Dingley,

Much has happened since the last newsletter over two months ago. The open letter finished with 444 signatures. The letter was sent to several dozen people at the WMF, and we have heard that it is being discussed but there has been no official reply. A related article appears in the current issue of The Signpost. If you haven't seen it, you should, including the readers' comment section.

Awards: Barnstars were given for the past several years (thanks to MPGuy2824), and we are now all caught up. The 2021 cup went to John B123 for leading with 26,525 article reviews during 2021. To encourage moderate activity, a new "Iron" level barnstar is awarded annually for reviewing 360 articles ("one-a-day"), and 100 reviews earns the "Standard" NPP barnstar. About 90 reviewers received barnstars for each of the years 2018 to 2021 (including the new awards that were given retroactively). All awards issued for every year are listed on the Awards page. Check out the new Hall of Fame also.

Software news: Novem Linguae and MPGuy2824 have connected with WMF developers who can review and approve patches, so they have been able to fix some bugs, and make other improvements to the Page Curation software. You can see everything that has been fixed recently here. The reviewer report has also been improved.

Suggestions:

There is much enthusiasm over the low backlog, but remember that the "quality and depth of patrolling are more important than speed".
Reminder: an article should not be tagged for any kind of deletion for a minimum of 15 minutes after creation and it is often appropriate to wait an hour or more. (from the NPP tutorial)
Reviewers should focus their effort where it can do the most good, reviewing articles. Other clean-up tasks that don't require advanced permissions can be left to other editors that routinely improve articles in these ways (creating Talk Pages, specifying projects and ratings, adding categories, etc.) Let's rely on others when it makes the most sense. On the other hand, if you enjoy doing these tasks while reviewing and it keeps you engaged with NPP (or are guiding a newcomer), then by all means continue.
This user script puts a link to the feed in your top toolbar.

Backlog:

Saving the best for last: From a July low of 8,500, the backlog climbed back to 11,000 in August and then reversed in September dropping to below 6,000 and continued falling with the October backlog drive to under 1,000, a level not seen in over four years. Keep in mind that there are 2,000 new articles every week, so the number of reviews is far higher than the backlog reduction. To keep the backlog under a thousand, we have to keep reviewing at about half the recent rate!

Reminders

Newsletter feedback - please take this short poll about the newsletter.
If you're interested in instant messaging and chat rooms, please join us on the New Page Patrol Discord, where you can ask for help and live chat with other patrollers.
Please add the project discussion page to your watchlist.
If you are no longer very active on Misplaced Pages or you no longer wish to be a reviewer, please ask any admin to remove you from the group. If you want the tools back again, just ask at PERM.
To opt out of future mailings, please remove yourself here.

New Pages Patrol newsletter January 2023

Hello Andy Dingley,

Backlog

The October drive reduced the backlog from 9,700 to an amazing 0! Congratulations to WaddlesJP13 who led with 2084 points. See this page for further details. The queue is steadily rising again and is approaching 2,000. It would be great if <2,000 were the “new normal”. Please continue to help out even if it's only for a few or even one patrol a day.

2022 Awards

Onel5969 won the 2022 cup for 28,302 article reviews last year - that's an average of nearly 80/day. There was one Gold Award (5000+ reviews), 11 Silver (2000+), 28 Iron (360+) and 39 more for the 100+ barnstar. Rosguill led again for the 4th year by clearing 49,294 redirects. For the full details see the Awards page and the Hall of Fame. Congratulations everyone!

Minimum deletion time: The previous WP:NPP guideline was to wait 15 minutes before tagging for deletion (including draftification and WP:BLAR). Due to complaints, a consensus decided to raise the time to 1 hour. To illustrate this, very new pages in the feed are now highlighted in red. (As always, this is not applicable to attack pages, copyvios, vandalism, etc.)

New draftify script: In response to feedback from AFC, the The Move to Draft script now provides a choice of set messages that also link the creator to a new, friendly explanation page. The script also warns reviewers if the creator is probably still developing the article. The former script is no longer maintained. Please edit your edit your common.js or vector.js file from User:Evad37/MoveToDraft.js to User:MPGuy2824/MoveToDraft.js

Redirects: Some of our redirect reviewers have reduced their activity and the backlog is up to 9,000+ (two months deep). If you are interested in this distinctly different task and need any help, see this guide, this checklist, and spend some time at WP:RFD.

Discussions with the WMF The PageTriage open letter signed by 444 users is bearing fruit. The Growth Team has assigned some software engineers to work on PageTriage, the software that powers the NewPagesFeed and the Page Curation toolbar. WMF has submitted dozens of patches in the last few weeks to modernize PageTriage's code, which will make it easier to write patches in the future. This work is helpful but is not very visible to the end user. For patches visible to the end user, volunteers such as Novem Linguae and MPGuy2824 have been writing patches for bug reports and feature requests. The Growth Team also had a video conference with the NPP coordinators to discuss revamping the landing pages that new users see.

Reminders

Newsletter feedback - please take this short poll about the newsletter.
There is live chat with patrollers on the New Page Patrol Discord.
Please add the project discussion page to your watchlist.
If you no longer wish to be a reviewer, please ask any admin to remove you from the group. If you want the tools back again, just ask at PERM.
To opt out of future mailings, please remove yourself here.

New Pages Patrol newsletter June 2023

Hello Andy Dingley,

Backlog

Redirect drive: In response to an unusually high redirect backlog, we held a redirect backlog drive in May. The drive completed with 23851 reviews done in total, bringing the redirect backlog to 0 (momentarily). Congratulations to Hey man im josh who led with a staggering 4316 points, followed by Meena and Greyzxq with 2868 and 2546 points respectively. See this page for more details. The redirect queue is steadily rising again and is steadily approaching 4,000. Please continue to help out, even if it's only for a few or even one review a day.

Redirect autopatrol: All administrators without autopatrol have now been added to the redirect autopatrol list. If you see any users who consistently create significant amounts of good quality redirects, consider requesting redirect autopatrol for them here.

WMF work on PageTriage: The WMF Moderator Tools team, consisting of Sam, Jason and Susana, and also some patches from Jon, has been hard at work updating PageTriage. They are focusing their efforts on modernising the extension's code rather than on bug fixes or new features, though some user-facing work will be prioritised. This will help make sure that this extension is not deprecated, and is easier to work on in the future. In the next month or so, we will have an opt-in beta test where new page patrollers can help test the rewrite of Special:NewPagesFeed, to help find bugs. We will post more details at WT:NPPR when we are ready for beta testers.

Articles for Creation (AFC): All new page reviewers are now automatically approved for Articles for Creation draft reviewing (you do not need to apply at WT:AFCP like was required previously). To install the AFC helper script, visit Special:Preferences, visit the Gadgets tab, tick "Yet Another AFC Helper Script", then click "Save". To find drafts to review, visit Special:NewPagesFeed, and at the top left, tick "Articles for Creation". To review a draft, visit a submitted draft, click on the "More" menu, then click "Review (AFCH)". You can also comment on and submit drafts that are unsubmitted using the script.

You can review the AFC workflow at WP:AFCR. It is up to you if you also want to mark your AFC accepts as NPP reviewed (this is allowed but optional, depends if you would like a second set of eyes on your accept). Don't forget that draftspace is optional, so moves of drafts to mainspace (even if they are not ready) should not be reverted, except possibly if there is conflict of interest.

Pro tip: Did you know that visual artists such as painters have their own SNG? The most common part of this "creative professionals" criteria that applies to artists is WP:ARTIST 4b (solo exhibition, not group exhibition, at a major museum) or 4d (being represented within the permanent collections of two museums).

Reminders

Newsletter feedback - please take this short poll about the newsletter.
There is live chat with patrollers on the New Page Patrol Discord and #wikimedia-npp on IRC.
Please add the project discussion page to your watchlist.
To opt out of future mailings, please remove yourself here.

Actors' names in Plot

Hi Andy, I see you reverted my edit on Hell Drivers (film) where I had removed the actors' names from the Plot section. I made these deletions per Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style/Film#Plot – "Do not include actors' names in the plot summary, as it is redundant to the "Cast" section." best wishes. Tobyhoward (talk) 11:38, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

OK, if the guideline is that specific (the section on cast isn't). I'd still disagree with this, as it makes the article so much harder to read and forces readers to switch between two sections: it's an obscure film with an obscure plot, mostly noted for the future careers of the junior cast. So most readers will recognise the actor, but not the role. Andy Dingley (talk) 11:48, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

I take your point Andy, but I disagree -- I find the Plot harder to read if the actors' names are included. I think one could also argue that the Plot is logically independent of who plays the roles, so actors' names don't belong there. I accept that our views differ, but I think we should honour the MOS, so I propose that I reinstate my edit. Tobyhoward (talk) 14:57, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

Fine by me. Andy Dingley (talk) 15:24, 17 October 2023 (UTC)

On 2-8-8-8-2

A discussion is taking place as to whether the article 2-8-8-8-2 is suitable for inclusion in Misplaced Pages according to Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines or whether it should be deleted.

The article will be discussed at Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/2-8-8-8-2 until a consensus is reached, and anyone, including you, is welcome to contribute to the discussion. The nomination will explain the policies and guidelines which are of concern. The discussion focuses on high-quality evidence and our policies and guidelines.

Chris Troutman (talk) 01:47, 27 October 2023 (UTC)

(C&P from User talk:マイヤー式機関車 --マイヤー式機関車 (talk) 07:20, 27 October 2023 (UTC))

November Articles for creation backlog drive

Hello Andy Dingley:

WikiProject Articles for creation is holding a month long Backlog Drive!
The goal of this drive is to reduce the backlog of unreviewed drafts to less than 2 months outstanding reviews from the current 4+ months. Bonus points will be given for reviewing drafts that have been waiting more than 30 days. The drive is running from 1 November 2023 through 30 November 2023.

You may find Category:AfC pending submissions by age or other categories and sorting helpful.

Barnstars will be given out as awards at the end of the drive.

There is a backlog of over 1800 pages, so start reviewing drafts. We're looking forward to your help! MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:23, 31 October 2023 (UTC)

ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message

Hello! Voting in the 2023 Arbitration Committee elections is now open until 23:59 (UTC) on Monday, 11 December 2023. All eligible users are allowed to vote. Users with alternate accounts may only vote once.

The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Misplaced Pages arbitration process. It has the authority to impose binding solutions to disputes between editors, primarily for serious conduct disputes the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the authority to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail.

If you wish to participate in the 2023 election, please review the candidates and submit your choices on the voting page. If you no longer wish to receive these messages, you may add {{NoACEMM}} to your user talk page. MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 00:26, 28 November 2023 (UTC)

Category:Preserved beam engines has been nominated for merging

Category:Preserved beam engines has been nominated for merging. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. - Rich 14:23, 3 December 2023 (UTC)

Category:Photo archives has been nominated for renaming

Category:Photo archives has been nominated for renaming. A discussion is taking place to decide whether this proposal complies with the categorization guidelines. If you would like to participate in the discussion, you are invited to add your comments at the category's entry on the categories for discussion page. Thank you. Paul_012 (talk) 13:35, 6 December 2023 (UTC)

Precious anniversary

Precious
Six years!

--Gerda Arendt (talk) 09:10, 13 December 2023 (UTC)

Europlug

Rewireable Europlugs are freely available and obtainable from many suppliers. Just one example from the 72,400 Google hits. 2A00:23C8:9883:2601:1151:33CC:ABCC:5414 (talk) 17:55, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for that. However see the recent changes from @ZH8000:. Rewireable Europlugs may be available (as are 'Europlug sockets', despite those being outside the standard) and if CPC is selling them then I expect that they'll even be conformant to some standard somewhere (some of CPC's products are at the 'bargain end' of production, but they're legal). Note though that although these are wireable they are not rewireable by the definition of the standard (and are presumably thus standards compliant), despite how the product description describes them. A non-rewireable plug is one that can't be re-wired by the consumer: it is wired once, by the manufacturer, and then closed and insulated such that there is no defined method of re-opening or re-wiring it afterwards. Many of CPC's products are not intended for retail uses, but for manufacture.

To put it simply: CPC sells non-rewireable plugs, which the maker's documentation describes as rewireable.

I haven't read these standards enough to state authoritatively if 'non-rewireable' means that they cannot be rewired and it is prevented, or less rigidly so that rewiring is just not a supported operation (and a fully rewireable version would also be compliant, even though this is outside the spec). But that doesn't matter here.

The situation is more complex than a simple word, or lack of, can address. Maybe we need to write a fuller statement to try and clarify it all. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:01, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

Oh, additionally they're Class II, not Class III. Please be careful not to change that. Andy Dingley (talk) 20:05, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

You completely miss that the addition in the lede is not compliant with WP:LEDE. Neither is the addition of the reference as they are not permitted in the lede. It is not encyclopaedic to try to claim that the plugs can only be permanently attached to a power cord when rewireable plugs exist in abundance. CPC is not the only supplier. It is more difficult to find a supplier who does not supply them. RS and Farnell are just two respected sources of many.

Europlugs are frequently encountered as part of a plug in power supply without a power cord betwixt the plug and supply. Apple is a notable source. These supplies have to be UKCA compliant in the UK so a supporting standard does exist. The European CE requirements only apply to the power supply part and not the plug (The low voltage directive specifically states that the CE marking scheme excludes domestic plugs and sockets). 2A00:23C8:9883:2601:E87D:F1FF:F:90A0 (talk) 16:11, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

You still haven't shown an example of a rewireable plug.

Citing LEDE like this is just sophistry to try and justify your content-change pushing.

I'm not familiar with Apple products. Are you referring here to their multi-standard Euro adapter (too short to have a cable)? I can't see how that changes anything: it's still not a rewirable plug.

Just for clarity, are you now or have you ever been either of I B Wright or Bhtpbank? Your editing style seems so familiar. Andy Dingley (talk) 16:32, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Just Google “Rewireable Europlug” for yourself. As I said, it only returns over 72,000 hits but I grant that may be a degree of overlap.

Apple iPhones and iPads are (or were) sold throughout Europe with a charger that had a built in Europlug much like anything else sold that was rechargeable. I have examples made by Apple, Bose, Sony, Panasonic, Samsung, LG and Sennheisser plus a bucket full of other examples left over from my time in Brussels.

As for your assertion: I will have to pass on that one as I have no idea what your angle is. 2A00:23C8:9883:2601:E87D:F1FF:F:90A0 (talk) 17:44, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Merry Christmas!

Hi Andy. I'm very glad to see you're back around. You're edits and your views were always greatly appreciated. I just wanted to wish you and yours a very Merry Christmas! And, if you don't celebrate Christmas, then please take it as a Happy Hanukkah, a Blessed Hatsumode, or just a really great Sunday. Or, my personal favorite, a Festive Viking Yule! (Which is what it is anyway.) Whatever your choice, I hope your holiday season is a great one, and may the coming year bring happiness and joy! Zaereth (talk) 01:04, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

New pages patrol January 2024 Backlog drive

New Page Patrol \| January 2024 Articles Backlog Drive
On 1 January 2024, a one-month backlog drive for New Page Patrol will begin. Barnstars will be awarded based on the number of articles patrolled. Barnstars will also be granted for re-reviewing articles previously reviewed by other patrollers during the drive. Each review will earn 1 point. Interested in taking part? Sign up here.
You're receiving this message because you are a new page patroller. To opt-out of future mailings, please remove yourself here.

MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 02:09, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Disambiguation link notification for December 20

An automated process has detected that when you recently edited List of Kamaz vehicles, you added a link pointing to the disambiguation page 4×2.

(Opt-out instructions.) --DPL bot (talk) 06:01, 20 December 2023 (UTC)

Revision as of 18:20, 20 December 2023

Archives

Nomination of Bridge rail for deletion

Rolls-Royce C Range Diesels

Speedy deletion nomination of Internally riffled boiler tubes

New Page Patrol newsletter October 2022

New Pages Patrol newsletter January 2023

New Pages Patrol newsletter June 2023

Actors' names in Plot

On 2-8-8-8-2

November Articles for creation backlog drive

ArbCom 2023 Elections voter message

Category:Preserved beam engines has been nominated for merging

Category:Photo archives has been nominated for renaming

Precious anniversary

Europlug

Merry Christmas!

New pages patrol January 2024 Backlog drive

Disambiguation link notification for December 20