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Revision as of 01:54, 18 June 2024

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Conditional parent categories in templates

Re Template:Bridges completed in the YYY0s category header etc, rather than use "if exists", isn't it better to set a threshold year after which parent categories should exist, as in the case of Template:Synagogues completed in decade category header? That way, when e.g. a year category is created using the relevant template, it will prompt for the parent (decade category) to be created. Conversely, if a too-early decade category is (re)created against prior consensus, it would rightly not be auto-populated by year categories.

I also suggest documenting the related CFD decision on the template, at least in the edit summary. – Fayenatic London 15:55, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

@Fayenatic london: if there is a consensus for a specific cutoff year, I agree that would be a better implementation. In Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 April 27#Judaism by year, you proposed using 1800 as a cutoff year. However, I don't see consensus for a specific cutoff year in Misplaced Pages:Categories for discussion/Log/2024 May 12#Transport infrastructure by decade, which just said very complicated tree for only a few subcategories about bridges, canals and lighthouses. I would be happy to add a comment about the CFD discussions to the templates which I added {{Category if exists}} to. Does that work for you? HouseBlaster (he/him) 16:09, 29 May 2024 (UTC)

I had not realised that {{Category if exists}} is brand new – well done! – it is surprising that nobody thought of this before. I've added links to it from some similar templates.

How about extending it, or adding a version 2, with a fallback category? This could simplify e.g. Template:Fooian sportswomen.

But let's not overuse "if exists" functionality. I already reverted the first two usages in "Bridges" templates back to required parents. For such Buildings & structures templates, I recommend coding a start year instead, for the reasons stated. The start date can be determined by current usage after the CFD implementations, and explained in the documentation. – Fayenatic London 10:26, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

@Fayenatic london: I was surprised, too! Probably there is something with an opaque name, but I couldn't find it. I will look into adding a fallback option. Still not convinced that using a cutoff date is the best idea when there is no explicit consensus for a cutoff date, but also still open to being convinced. Would you object to pinging some people and asking for their opinions? HouseBlaster (he/him) 22:08, 31 May 2024 (UTC)

@Marcocapelle, Aidan721, Pppery, and Tom.Reding: your views on this would be welcome. – Fayenatic London 21:06, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

Even if a discussion doesn't explicitly codify it, it is determining that there isn't enough content to warrant chronology categories before a certain point - there is some reason people always end these nominations at round-number years, for example. Thus I think having a cutoff point is preferable to ifexist checking. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 21:10, 1 June 2024 (UTC)

• The cutoff point varies from one topic to another, isn't that going to be a problem? Marcocapelle (talk) 06:03, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
  • I don't see that as a problem, as the cutoff is chosen according to category sizes, which vary by topic. The cutoff that is coded should also be stated in the template documentation, ideally with a link to CFD where applicable. – Fayenatic London 07:45, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
    • Then I don't see any objection. Marcocapelle (talk) 11:42, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

I'm a big fan of category automation (e.g. Module:Category described in year as most relevant to this discussion). However, I haven't done any work related to cat maintenance/creation/deletion surrounding cutoffs.

Generally, it's better to prompt the user to confirm/create the parent cat(s), which would be obfuscated by "if exists". If "if exists" must to be used, and if it fails to display a particular parent, then it would be good to place the active category into a tracking category for followup, to decide whether or not the parent should be created and the threshold changed.

Thresholds & "if exists" could also be used together, where a category is forced above the threshold, and "if exists" used below the threshold and the active cat placed into a tracking cat for followup.

Also, having relevant discussions/CfDs/etc. in the /doc is a good idea so that everyone can stay on the same page.   ~ Tom.Reding (talk ⋅dgaf)  11:05, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

ygm

Moneytrees🏝️(Talk) 03:39, 2 June 2024 (UTC)

Question from Peewoop 68369 (22:05, 3 June 2024)

Hi, how do I add links in articles? --Peewoop 68369 (talk) 22:05, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

@Peewoop 68369: hello, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! To add a link, you surround the term you want to link with ]. You can see more information at Help:Link. Best, HouseBlaster (he/him) 22:08, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Thank you! Peewoop 68369 (talk) 00:08, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

Tech News: 2024-23

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• It is now possible for local administrators to add new links to the bottom of the site Tools menu without JavaScript. Documentation is available.
• The message name for the definition of the tracking category of WikiHiero has changed from "MediaWiki:Wikhiero-usage-tracking-category" to "MediaWiki:Wikihiero-usage-tracking-category".
• One new wiki has been created: a Misplaced Pages in Kadazandusun (w:dtp:)

Changes later this week

• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 4 June. It will be on non-Misplaced Pages wikis and some Wikipedias from 5 June. It will be on all wikis from 6 June (calendar).

Future changes

• Next week, on wikis with the Vector 2022 skin as the default, logged-out desktop users will be able to choose between different font sizes. The default font size will also be increased for them. This is to make Wikimedia projects easier to read. Learn more.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

MediaWiki message delivery 22:32, 3 June 2024 (UTC)

Feedback request: Politics, government, and law request for comment

Your feedback is requested at Talk:United States on a "Politics, government, and law" request for comment. Thank you for helping out!
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Question from Balgobeen (03:12, 5 June 2024)

Request an article creation --Balgobeen (talk) 03:12, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

@Balgobeen: hello, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Before any article is created on Misplaced Pages, we need to make sure it is eligible for an article. Do you have two or three reliable sources (we have a list of sources alongside their reliability) which are independent of the subject (nothing created by or in collaboration with the subject counts) and cover the subject in detail? HouseBlaster (he/him) 11:41, 5 June 2024 (UTC)

Deletion review for Category:Dominican Republic people of European American descent

Iñaki Salazar has asked for a deletion review of Category:Dominican Republic people of European American descent. Because you closed the deletion discussion for this page, you might want to participate in the deletion review. —Cryptic 02:42, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

May 2024 NPP backlog drive – Points award

		The Invisible Barnstar
		This award is given in recognition to HouseBlaster for accumulating at least 5 points during the May 2024 NPP backlog drive. Your contributions helped play a part in the 14,452 reviews completed during the drive. Thank you so much for taking part and contributing to help reduce the backlog! Hey man im josh (talk) 18:43, 6 June 2024 (UTC)

The Signpost: 8 June 2024

• News and notes: Wikimedia Foundation publishes its Form 990 for fiscal year 2022-2023

• Technology report: New Page Patrol receives a much-needed software upgrade

• Deletion report: The lore of Kalloor

• In the media: National cable networks get in on the action arguing about what the first sentence of a Misplaced Pages article ought to say

• News from the WMF: Progress on the plan — how the Wikimedia Foundation advanced on its Annual Plan goals during the first half of fiscal year 2023-2024

• Opinion: Public response to the editors of Settler Colonial Studies

• Recent research: ChatGPT did not kill Misplaced Pages, but might have reduced its growth

• Featured content: We didn't start the wiki

• Essay: No queerphobia

• Special report: RetractionBot is back to life!

• Traffic report: Chimps, Eurovision, and the return of the Baby Reindeer

• Comix: The Wikipediholic Family

• Humour: Misplaced Pages rattled by sophisticated cyberattack of schoolboy typing "balls" in infobox

• Concept: Palimpsestuous

Jovana-Aja Panić

Artist and master od criminal law Ajapanic (talk) 14:13, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

@Ajapanic: hello, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Do you have a question about editing? HouseBlaster (he/they) 15:55, 8 June 2024 (UTC)

Category:Ezo'la CFD close

Per WP:BADNAC, non admins are not supposed to close discussions when the result requires admin action. Can you revert the close so an admin actually moves the page? Nickps (talk) 16:43, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

@Nickps: hi, it is listed at WT:CFDW where an admin will process the discussion. That is par for the course at CFD. HouseBlaster (he/they) 16:44, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

I didn't know that process existed. I'm sorry about that. Nickps (talk) 16:46, 9 June 2024 (UTC)

CFD categories

Hello, HouseBlaster,

After there is a CFD closure, please do not remove the CFD tag from the category to be deleted. If there is the CFD tag, then when an admin like me deletes the category, the deletion notice will list the relevant CFD discussion so that any interested editor can go and see the discussion. When you remove the CFD tag and just put a normal CSD tag on the page or some anonymous tag, then the CFD discussion won't be automatically listed as the reason for deletion. I regularly run a query for empty categories so if a category has been emptied after a CFD closure, there is a good chance I'll see it. But if you see me reverting an edit of yours on a CFD category, that's why I'm doing this. Thanks. Liz 01:53, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

@Liz: hi Liz! Is there a particular category where I did that? I don't normally remove the CFD tag before adding a CSD tag (Twinkle adds the CSD tag without removing the CFD tag). HouseBlaster (he/they) 01:57, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Wait, I now see that it was the now-deleted Category:British LGBT civil servants‬. Not sure why I didn't use Twinkle; I'll consider this a  Self-trout. Apologies for the confusion! HouseBlaster (he/they) 02:08, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Tech News: 2024-24

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• The software used to render SVG files has been updated to a new version, fixing many longstanding bugs in SVG rendering.
• The HTML used to render all headings is being changed to improve accessibility. It was changed last week in some skins (Vector legacy and Minerva). Please test gadgets on your wiki on these skins and report any related problems so that they can be resolved before this change is made in Vector-2022. The developers are still considering the introduction of a Gadget API for adding buttons to section titles if that would be helpful to tool creators, and would appreciate any input you have on that.
• The HTML markup used for citations by Parsoid changed last week. In places where Parsoid previously added the mw-reference-text class, Parsoid now also adds the reference-text class for better compatibility with the legacy parser. More details are available.

Problems

• There was a bug with the Content Translation interface that caused the tools menus to appear in the wrong location. This has now been fixed.

Changes later this week

• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 11 June. It will be on non-Misplaced Pages wikis and some Wikipedias from 12 June. It will be on all wikis from 13 June (calendar).
• The new version of MediaWiki includes another change to the HTML markup used for citations: Parsoid will now generate a <span class="mw-cite-backlink"> wrapper for both named and unnamed references for better compatibility with the legacy parser. Interface administrators should verify that gadgets that interact with citations are compatible with the new markup. More details are available.
• On multilingual wikis that use the <translate> system, there is a feature that shows potentially-outdated translations with a pink background until they are updated or confirmed. From this week, confirming translations will be logged, and there is a new user-right that can be required for confirming translations if the community requests it.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

MediaWiki message delivery 20:18, 10 June 2024 (UTC)

Deleting Ninety Nines

Can you explain why you suggested the Category Ninety-Nines for deletion? As a new[REDACTED] editor, who is trying to improve the content for women's categories, I do not see why my contribution to building this new category was deleted on your suggestion? If there is some Misplaced Pages rule this new category violates, please let me know, I spent a lot of time to organize this information into something that was useful and applicable. Nayyn (talk) 18:29, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Hello Nayyn! I did not suggest the category be deleted—I just "closed" the discussion as delete. The job of a "closer" is to assess the consensus in the discussion, not to choose a particular outcome. @Marcocapelle, LaundryPizza03, and Lenticel would be better equipped to tell you why they thought the category should be deleted (perhaps they would be willing to chime in?). Let me know if you have any more questions, HouseBlaster (he/they) 21:16, 11 June 2024 (UTC)

Hi, thank you for the clarification. How many people are required to determine consensus? It just seems like a limited discussion took place in a short time frame and I'm not sure the rationale that closed the category. I am still learning here, but wish to contribute meaningfully and I'm not sure why anyone would have an objection to this. Nayyn (talk) 11:04, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

@Nayyn: first, a bit of terminology: I closed the discussion, which resulted in the category being deleted. Deletion discussions on Misplaced Pages generally last a week, and there is no fixed number required for consensus. This section of the consensus policy which explains how consensus is determined. Four people is slightly above average participation at a deletion discussion. Now for specifics: categories are for navigation by grouping articles by their defining characteristics. In general, membership in an organization is not considered defining. Best, HouseBlaster (he/they) 16:32, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Question from Dinesh Yadav Lohia on Help:Getting started (06:01, 12 June 2024)

Photos --Dinesh Yadav Lohia (talk) 06:01, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

@Dinesh Yadav Lohia: what do you want to do with photos? HouseBlaster (he/they) 16:22, 12 June 2024 (UTC)

Questions at RfA

I wouldn't race through this first burst of questions. I would take my time and use the opportunity to let !voters into my head. That's what I might do. Opinions vary. The very best wishes in your run. Good noms. Trust them if you have questions. BusterD (talk) 14:11, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Back in late March....

you nominated a fellow editor for the EotW award. You did fine!!! Thanks and good luck at RfA. Buster Seven Talk (UTC) 18:26, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

@Buster7 and BusterD: thank you both for your words of encouragement; they are sincerely appreciated. HouseBlaster (he/they) 18:54, 16 June 2024 (UTC)

Questioning the outcome of the discussion

Hi, can you please explain what the result of this discussion is based on? The result you wrote is "keep and populate", but I believe that "populate" is not what follows from the discussion, and leads to the creation of undersized categories. FromCzech (talk) 17:51, 17 June 2024 (UTC)

@FromCzech: stub templates do not always go together with stub categories. For instance, {{Mělník-geo-stub}} does not need to populate Category:Mělník geography stubs‎: it can be set up to feed directly into Category:Central Bohemian Region geography stubs. For that reason, we don't normally delete stub templates. (That way, we can always recreate the stub category and it will be automatically populated by simply updating the templates.) You nominated the templates for deletion, and the result was keep and populate the templates. If you wish to upmerge the categories, you can nominate them directly. HouseBlaster (he/they) 01:54, 18 June 2024 (UTC)

Tech News: 2024-25

Latest tech news from the Wikimedia technical community. Please tell other users about these changes. Not all changes will affect you. Translations are available.

Recent changes

• People who attempt to add an external link in the visual editor will now receive immediate feedback if they attempt to link to a domain that a project has decided to block. Please see Edit check for more details.
• The new Community Configuration extension is available on Test Misplaced Pages. This extension allows communities to customize specific features to meet their local needs. Currently only Growth features are configurable, but the extension will support other Community Configuration use cases in the future.
• The dark mode beta feature is now available on category and help pages, as well as more special pages. There may be contrast issues. Please report bugs on the project talk page.

Problems

• Cloud Services tools were not available for 25 minutes last week. This was caused by a faulty hardware cable in the data center.
• Last week, styling updates were made to the Vector 2022 skin. This caused unforeseen issues with templates, hatnotes, and images. Changes to templates and hatnotes were reverted. Most issues with images were fixed. If you still see any, report them here.

Changes later this week

• The new version of MediaWiki will be on test wikis and MediaWiki.org from 18 June. It will be on non-Misplaced Pages wikis and some Wikipedias from 19 June. It will be on all wikis from 20 June (calendar).
• Starting June 18, the Reference Edit Check will be deployed to a new set of Wikipedias. This feature is intended to help newcomers and to assist edit-patrollers by inviting people who are adding new content to a Misplaced Pages article to add a citation when they do not do so themselves. During a test at 11 wikis, the number of citations added more than doubled when Reference Check was shown to people. Reference Check is community configurable.
• Mailing lists will be unavailable for roughly two hours on Tuesday 10:00–12:00 UTC. This is to enable migration to a new server and upgrade its software.

Tech news prepared by Tech News writers and posted by bot • Contribute • Translate • Get help • Give feedback • Subscribe or unsubscribe.

MediaWiki message delivery 23:46, 17 June 2024 (UTC)