Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 21:51, 14 April 2005

Hello and welcome to Misplaced Pages!

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• Try the Tutorial, and feel free to experiment in the test area.
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• Eventually, you might want to read the Manual of Style and Policies and Guidelines.
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• Explore, be bold in editing pages, and, most importantly, have fun!

Good luck!

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P.S. One last helpful hint. To sign your posts like I did above (on talk pages, for example) use the '~' symbol. To insert just your name, type ~~~ (3 tildes), or, to insert your name and timestamp, use ~~~~ (4 tildes).

Photograph

Hi Chip, do you happen to know who took the photograph of you and Dennis King that is on the Chip Berlet page? I am trying to find out who the copyright holder is and whether Misplaced Pages has permission to use it. Any information you have would be helpful. Many thanks, Slim 22:13, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)

Hi,

It was taken by a member of the LaRouche group outside the courthouse in Alexandria, VA the day LaRouche was led off to jail. I presume the photographer was working for their newspaper, or another of their publications, since it has appeared in LaRouche publications from time to time. I am sure they would be delighted to give permission.

-)

--Cberlet 04:47, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)

John Train Salon

If you think an article should be deleted you have the option of nominating it for deletion at Misplaced Pages:Votes for deletionAndyL 03:08, 3 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Your photo

Chip, I'd like to use the photograph of you at http://www.publiceye.org/berlet/chip.jpg for the Chip Berlet page. Do you know who owns the copyright and how I can get permission? Slim 00:19, Jan 6, 2005 (UTC)

Hi, PRA owns the copyright to the photo, and you have permission to use it on Misplaced Pages as long as you preserve the copyright notice and say used by permission. I can't wait to see it appear in a LaRouche publication. Sigh... --Cberlet 03:32, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, Chip. I'll check that it's okay to do that. There's sometimes a problem with Misplaced Pages and copyrights, because everything is supposed to be open-source. But if you'd rather I didn't use the photograph, I won't, so do say if you're prefer not.

In the meantime, I've started to rewrite your page. At the moment, it's on a subpage that I've created at User:SlimVirgin/CBdraft, and there's a Talk page for it at User talk:SlimVirgin/CBdraft, where you're free to make comments, or else you can e-mail me if you have any information you feel should be included, bearing in mind that everything in Misplaced Pages must have been published somewhere already. It's probably best if you don't edit it yourself, so that no one can accuse you of interfering. Once I've finished the draft, I'll try to get a few other editors to read it, and if they think it's okay, we'll put it on the page instead of the current one. Then if the LaRouche editors try to attack it, we may have to look into asking for page protection. Slim 04:07, Jan 6, 2005 (UTC)

I will see if we can get the original photographer to grant us a release.--Cberlet 04:35, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)

At the moment, I've labeled it "fair use," which means there's a copyright on it, but Misplaced Pages has decided it's fair use under United States law. I'm sure that'll be okay, so long as you've no objections. Slim 05:33, Jan 6, 2005 (UTC)

Sounds like a plan. --Cberlet 13:50, 6 Jan 2005 (UTC)

"Chip Berlet" article

The article on you has been re-edited in an attempt to make it conform with last year's Arbitration Committee ruling concerning the insertion of LaRouche related material in non-LaRouche related[REDACTED] articles. LaRouche supporters have been that if they continue to insert LaRouche material into non-LaRouche articles their violations of the ArbComm ruling will be brought to the ArbComm's attention. AndyL 04:24, 7 Jan 2005 (UTC)

ISBN numbers

Hi Chip, I get the numbers from Amazon. For Dennis King, for example, I went here, clicked on "hardcover,"; when I got that page, I scrawled down to "product details" and got the year of publication of the first edition. Then I hit the back button to take me back to the first page, scrawled down again to "product details," and this gave me the paperback details, in this case third edition, June 1999, ISBN: 0028628217 (which is not the same ISBN number as the hardcover). When you cut and paste ISBN numbers from Amazon into Misplaced Pages, you have to delete the colon, then it comes up as ISBN 0028628217. Hope this helps. SlimVirgin 18:47, Jan 14, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks!--Cberlet 18:55, 14 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Wrong title & redirect & delete?

You did everything perfectly up to putting the delete tag on it--common/likely misspellings (or alternate spellings) are left (or even created) as redirects to help people using the "Go" or "Search" button find the article at the correct location. It also helps prevent people from creating a duplicate article at the misspelling/alternate spelling. For example, note the redirs to Miskito (actually, it should probably have more), or to Mahatma Gandhi. The relevant guideline is here. Niteowlneils 03:41, 15 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Alternative news

Maybe alternative news syndicate - like news syndicate (presently just a redlink on news agency, but oh well) and I don't think it would be necessary to disambiguate U.S. because... where else were there any covered by such a name? Great good stuff, regardless! Samaritan 15:45, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Stygean stables

CB - If they were Augean stables we might be able to muck them out by re-directing a river. Unfortunately, you are correct, they are Stygian indeed. The "Political Views" article is a mess and SV apparently has a plan to fix it, so I will step aside from that article while that plan is pursued. I enjoy editing articles, however just talking about editing articles is tedious. Sometimes having too many editors on an article can prevent forward motion. Thanks for your contributions to Wiki. Cheers, -Willmcw 21:09, 20 Jan 2005 (UTC)

New articles

Chip, did you intend to create new LaRouche articles (e.g. Political views of Lyndon LaRouche/The Brainwashing Incident? These are in the main Misplaced Pages namespace i.e. in the encyclopedia. If you want to write a draft, it should be preceded by Talk: Political views of Lyndon LaRouche/followed by the name of the draft; or preceded by your user name User:CBerlet/followed by the name. Best, SlimVirgin 04:02, Jan 21, 2005 (UTC)

No. Sorry. I misunderstood how the system works. I have noted them for speedy deletion.--Cberlet 04:28, 21 Jan 2005 (UTC)

No worries. :-) SlimVirgin 04:36, Jan 21, 2005 (UTC)

Fascism and racism

Oops, sorry; I usually get this right when I try to add attributions in the comments, but I f**ked up. Again, my apologies. -- Jmabel | Talk 02:57, Jan 22, 2005 (UTC)

User accounts

Chip, for your information, I have left the following note on Herschelkrustofsky's and Weed Harper's talk pages:

"A request was made recently to the developers regarding the relationship, if any, between the user accounts User:Herschelkrustofsky, User:Weed Harper and User:C Colden. The reply from the developers is: "On technical evidence, combined with similarity in posting patterns, Herschelkrustofsky and Weed Harper can be considered to be operated by the same person. C Colden is either the same person or working in coordination with them, but is not *firmly* established to be the same person." Assuming this is correct, it would be appreciated if you would choose either the Herschelkrustofsky or Weed Harper account to edit the LaRouche pages. There is no policy against using multiple accounts, but they shouldn't be used to create the impression of more support for a position than really exists, or to get round 3RR violations. Alternatively, if you feel the technical information is misleading, any light you can shed on the relationship between the accounts would be helpful."

I've been told that the correct thing to do is to leave a note for C Colden asking if s/he can shed light on the relationship between the C Colden account and the other two, which I have also done. SlimVirgin 01:37, Jan 24, 2005 (UTC)

Also, just to let you know that Herschel has been blocked for 24 hours for violating 3RR at Lyndon LaRouche. SlimVirgin 07:02, Jan 24, 2005 (UTC)

And the Weed Harper user account has been blocked for 48 hours for making an edit while the H user account was blocked. SlimVirgin 19:22, Jan 24, 2005 (UTC)

See Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration#Lyndon LaRouche Part Deux. I didn't know Snowspinner was going to do this, so I have quickly cobbled together a request to add to his. If the request is accepted (I don't know how many arbitrators have to agree), the issue moves to an evidence page, which is where all the diffs have to be produced. SlimVirgin 05:17, Jan 25, 2005 (UTC)

Finished playing in the sandboxes

CB, I'm done. I've tried to describe, at least generaly, what my edits were in the summaries. I've torn the LaRouche bio apart and tried to make it as chronological as possible. I know you listed future plans in the Press & Criticism sections, but I tried to move most of that material into the relevent places and I think the story of LaRouche can be more easily followed that way. For example, the Train Salon takes on a different look when preceded by years of negative press reporting and lawsuits. And I've been equally merciless on the Political Views article, trying to make that more thematic and less biographical. In any case, I'll now leave the sandbox so the next editor can have their turn. Cheers, -Willmcw 07:23, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

PS Feel free to undo/redo/overdo anything you like. This link shows all the changes I made to the bio , and this one does the same for the Poliviews . I've deleted almost nothing. Both articles are obviously rougher as a result of being re-arranged, but once the outlines are in place we can work together on the completion. I wish I could have marked more verbiage with strikeouts, as I hope we can get these articles into forms that people can actually read in a weekend or less. Cheers, -Willmcw 08:28, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

PPS I've made a new sandbox, Talk:Lyndon LaRouche/organization sandbox, take a look. It's just a sketch, and I'm not entirely sure if it can be filled out in a useful way. Let me know if you have any thoughts about whether such an article, under some title, would be worth pursuing. It could potentially handle some topics that are hard to fit into the existing series. -Willmcw 10:01, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for finding and posting the black ghetto mother page. I wonder what he's talking about. I like Will's new page by the way. Shall we create another LaRouche talk page instead of posting to each other's user pages? Might be faster; or do we have too many to remember already? SlimVirgin 02:51, Jan 26, 2005 (UTC)

Okay, well I've created one. Feel free to use it or not, as you see fit. It's Talk:Lyndon LaRouche/organization sandbox/talk

La Rouche arbitration

The La Rouche arbitration part two has been accepted; temporary injunctions have been proposed which would affect your editing of La Rouche related articles; please made any comments at the talk page of Misplaced Pages:Requests_for_arbitration/Lyndon_LaRouche_Part_Deux/Proposed_decision#Proposed_temporary_injunctions. Fred Bauder 15:46, Jan 25, 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration Committee injunction

Pending a final decision on the case concerning you, you re also prohibited from editing articles on Template:LaRouche or creating new articles related to the LaRouche movement pending resolution of this matter, though you may continue to work in the present sandbox articles Talk:Lyndon LaRouche/sandbox, Talk:Political views of Lyndon LaRouche/sandbox and Talk:United States v. LaRouche/sandbox. Violation of this injunction will result in a block of up to twenty-four hours. Pages relating to the case are not included. Please see the injunction order for details. -- Grunt 🇪🇺 04:03, 2005 Jan 27 (UTC)

Don't let...

...them get to you, Cberlet -- just a short note to say "hi" and to urge that nolite bastardes carborundum. I'm taking a "wikibreak" as parenthood and work in my non-wiki life have been taking up most of my time the last few months. Hope all is well. BCorr|Брайен 23:22, 13 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration Committee ruling

As a ruling has been made on the case involving you, the temporary injunction against you has expired. Please see the final decision for details. -- Grunt 🇪🇺 01:23, 2005 Feb 17 (UTC)

Conspiracy theory

Hi, and thanks again for rescuing Conspiracy theory from my catastrophic 'fix'. You've done a great job sorting this out - I think it's fine as it stands. I'll see about reconciling your exported collection of theories material into the List of conspiracy theories article, unless you suggest a better idea. Adhib 09:47, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Fascism and Neiwert

No hay de que, amigo mio. If the topic is of interest, I highly recomment setting aside an hour or two to pour over the second of those two articles, "The Rise of Pseudo-Fascism." His thesis is not that Fascism is on the march, but rather that a set of traits are emerging that superficially resemble Fascism but absent the key element of violence, thankfully full far short of the genuine article. --AStanhope 11:37, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for the note and the link. It looks/sounds like this is your area of expertise. I am fascinated to see that Lyndon LaRouche is still doing his thing. I still have a copy of There Are No Limits to Growth! from like 20 years ago that has long been one of my favorite examples of extremist, crackpot rhetoric. Nice "meeting" you. --AStanhope 17:12, 10 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Conspiracy theories claiming involvement by Zionists or Jews in the September 11, 2001 attacks

Hi Chip. I hope you don't mind, after you renamed this I cleaned up a dozen or so links to the old article. Jayjg 21:42, 11 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Leo Strauss

Hi Chip, do you know anything about the political ideas of Leo Strauss? I recently encountered the article on him here, and it was nearly exclusively a highly academic discourse on his philosophical ideas. I have just added a section on political ideology, but it is pretty rudimentary and still needs some work. He seems to be a seminal figure for the US neocons, so it would be useful to have a clear exposition of his ideas here. -- Viajero 17:37, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

PS, I have known about your work since hearing you and Holly speak at ZMI '95 in Woods Hole. Viajero 17:37, 12 Mar 2005 (UTC)

9/11 conspiracies

thanks for moving that link, i was just about to do that. Looking at the linked site, it was hard to tell what view it held, but i'm pretty sure it is a general site, not making a specific claim. The linked page does, however debunk the "there was no plane" claim, so the "debunks" section is the right place. Bonus Onus 02:30, Mar 28, 2005 (UTC)

Israel Shamir article

You might find this article helpful when making future edits. Jayjg 05:12, 28 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Current debate at Talk:Israel Shahak

If you have a chance, would you mind taking a look at the current debate at Talk:Israel Shahak? Your opinion would be welcome. Jayjg 19:29, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

That's ok. I was looking more for clear thinking than a specific viewpoint. Thanks for responding. Jayjg 20:18, 30 Mar 2005 (UTC)

conspiracy theory

Hi Cberlet. Rhobite and Jayjg and you and I and others should talk about this. Sorry I was lazy to not get to your talk page. Initially I was communicating with Rhobite via the "revert comments field". He/she had 3 issues with my initial changes and I addressed them all. However my version did not please you and Jayjg. Let's try to build consensus. I don't care who writes the lead definition, however I am not happy with the current one because I (and likely Rhobite) think it is incomprehensible, inaccurate compared to the dictionary definition and leans more towards the colloquial definition over the legal one.

From what I have read and my understanding of English, the concept of "conspiracy theory" is really just the combination of the concept of "conspiracy" and the concept of "theory". To conspire is to plan together to do something, usually bad. However you and your mom can conspire to surprise your dad with a party! Theory is like a guess. So a "conspiracy theory" is a guess that a group of people conspired to do something. It is a guess, because the person guessing has no direct knowledge that the group of people planned it and executed on it. In the previous example, after the surprise party, your dad might suspect that the two of you were in on the surprise because he doubts either one of you could have pulled it off on your own (his conspiracy theory) and ask you both how you planned it.

If you check the dictionary definitions (google it if you like), you will see that my above example is correct usage of the term.

Do you want to give a shot at writing a lead wiki definition that works for this case and is consistent with the legal definition?

The lead definition should not be focused on the political examples with "secretive powers" and "common understandings". Bogusstory 07:37, 31 Mar 2005 (UTC)

Barnstar

LOL! My pleasure. You certainly earned it. SlimVirgin 02:46, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for demonstrating that your views and this page on the subject are highly biased POV

Comments like this don't improve the quality of dialogue. Following it up with "Don't be patronizing. I write NPOV" and so forth creates not only an extremely unconvincing argument, it also creates a hostile hypocracy which I would like to see less of. We've gotten along well editing a variety of contentious pages together in the past. Lets return to the method of compromise, civility and citing references which has served so well, and leave the incivility and rhetoric out. (Sam Spade | talk | contributions) 14:34, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

9/11

>> "There is a discussion going on at Misinformation and rumors about the September 11, 2001 attacks on where to put what. Your recent posts fall in between proven material with multiple named sources and unproven conspiracy claims. When you track down some of the cites to their primary publication, the sources get thin. But most of the claims have appeared in major press outlets, so they deserve to be put someplace other than a conspiracy claim or rumor page. Anyway, please join the discussion."

Thanks muchly for the heads-up. It's a long-winded messy article... can you summarise briefly where its gone since those additions, what you see the issue being, and where I could contribute? I saw missing material and added it as best I could, but that doesnt mean I necessarily know enough to make the finer judgements that perhaps you might think I have knowledge of...? FT2 00:29, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC)

misinfo and rumors talk page

Hey Cberlet, I am wondering if you noticed my response on the Talk:Misinformation and rumors about the September 11, 2001 attacks page? I provided numerous examples that it seems to be[REDACTED] policy to put the word "Criticisms" first in an article's title, I understand the desire to put "9/11" first but that is needlessly encumbersome. What do you think? zen master T 22:55, 6 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Nation of Islam and anti-Semitism

Hi, based on some writing you did about 10 years ago, I thought you might be able to help out with this page. Also, what kind of magazine is The New Internationalist? Jayjg 01:53, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, Chip. Jayjg 15:09, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

9/11 titles

I think Criticisms of the 9/11 Commission Report is good, but what do you mean "would the 'other' titles be 'OK'?"? Where was this question listed? zen master T 17:28, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

Please be specific in your complaints about the Churchill article or be silent. Your choice. Johnnyio 21:51, 14 Apr 2005 (UTC)