Revision as of 00:26, 21 September 2024 editSteven1991 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users2,511 editsNo edit summaryTags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit← Previous edit | Revision as of 00:26, 21 September 2024 edit undoSteven1991 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users2,511 editsNo edit summaryTags: Mobile edit Mobile web editNext edit → | ||
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== Do not leave messages on my talk page if you can’t be constructive == | |||
I will take this to ANI if you continue with this behavior. ] (]) 22:33, 19 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:I cannot do much if you cannot accept any criticism. ] (]) 22:44, 19 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
::You have been warned. ] (]) 22:48, 19 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::Read rather than make threats. ] (]) 01:22, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::It is not “unconstructive” to point out flaws in your manner of engagement. You did make unsubstantiated allegations that constituted harassment of me as a user who tried to revise obviously biased accusatory content in relevant articles. ] (]) 01:25, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::Would you please read the guidelines rather than make threats towards me? | |||
:::"Blocks should not be punitive | |||
::: | |||
:::See also: Misplaced Pages:Sanctions against editors should not be punitive | |||
:::Shortcuts | |||
:::WP:BLOCKNOTPUNITIVE | |||
:::WP:NOPUNISH | |||
:::Blocks should not be used: | |||
:::to retaliate; | |||
:::to disparage; | |||
:::to punish; or | |||
:::if there is no current conduct issue of concern." ] (]) 10:35, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::This is what you are doing: | |||
:::“'''Wikilawyering''' is a critical term which describes various practices to be avoided in Misplaced Pages. It may refer to: | |||
:::• Applying a portion of a policy or guideline to achieve an objective other than compliance with that policy or guideline or its objectives. Particularly when doing so in a way that is stricter, more categorical or more literal than the norm. | |||
:::• Abiding by the letter of a policy or guideline while violating its spirit or underlying principles. | |||
:::Asserting that the technical interpretation of the policies and guidelines should override the underlying principles they express. | |||
:::• Willfully misinterpreting policy or relying on technicalities to justify inappropriate actions. | |||
:::Weaponizing policies, guidelines, noticeboards and other Misplaced Pages systems with the goal of deprecating an editor rather than of resolving a problem.” ] (]) 17:18, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::This is what you are doing: | |||
:::“'''Wikilawyering''' is a critical term which describes various practices to be avoided in Misplaced Pages. It may refer to: | |||
:::• Applying a portion of a policy or guideline to achieve an objective other than compliance with that policy or guideline or its objectives. Particularly when doing so in a way that is stricter, more categorical or more literal than the norm. | |||
:::• Abiding by the letter of a policy or guideline while violating its spirit or underlying principles. | |||
:::Asserting that the technical interpretation of the policies and guidelines should override the underlying principles they express. | |||
:::'''• Willfully misinterpreting policy or relying on technicalities to justify inappropriate actions.''' | |||
:::'''• Weaponizing policies, guidelines, noticeboards and other Misplaced Pages systems with the goal of deprecating an editor rather than of resolving a problem.'''” ] (]) 19:17, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:*Steven1991, I advise you to stay off of Insanityclown1's User talk page. You've been given a brief block but, if you return and continue you attacking other editors, you will likely be blocked again for a much longer duration. It doesn't really matter if you think this is "fair" or not, persistent personal attacks usually result in indefinite blocks. <span style="font-family:Papyrus; color:#800080;">]</span> <sup style="font-family: Times New Roman; color: #006400;">] ]</sup> 05:03, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:*:How is it “personal attack” when I am pointing out behaviour by the user I consider as causing upset? ] (]) 10:25, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:*:So we are now not allowed to discuss abusive user behaviour as long as they share the same view as you? ] (]) 10:27, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:*:Would you apply the guidelines fairly? Or only when it suits you? | |||
:*:"Blocks should not be punitive | |||
:*: | |||
:*:See also: Misplaced Pages:Sanctions against editors should not be punitive | |||
:*:Shortcuts | |||
:*:WP:BLOCKNOTPUNITIVE | |||
:*:WP:NOPUNISH | |||
:*:Blocks should not be used: | |||
:*:to retaliate; | |||
:*:to disparage; | |||
:*:to punish; or | |||
:*:if there is no current conduct issue of concern." ] (]) 10:29, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::You should read that last line: "if there is no current conduct issue of concern." You were blocked by an uninvolved admin precisely because there was a "current conduct issue of concern" about your behaviour on Misplaced Pages. Since your block you've demonstrated absolutely no self-awareness regarding your conduct. As you have failed to evaluate your conduct and correct your behaviour but have instead lashed out defensively it is highly probable that once the block is lifted in a few hours you will resume the behaviour that got you blocked in the first place and earn yourself another, longer block - possibly a permanent block if you show yourself to be irredeemable. I suggest you take the next few hours to reflect on your own behaviour in light of the criticisms that have been made and endeavor to behave differently once your current block ends. ] (]) 12:03, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::1. Not all blocks are reasonable. They can be imposed by mistakes. That is why there is an appeal mechanism. I bet you wouldn’t say the same if an “uninvolved” admin imposes the same while you disagree. | |||
:::::2. Self-awareness? I have clearly explained why some of the users’ behaviour targeting me constituted harassment despite their denial. You totally ignore it but engage in continuous gaslighting. You reversed some of my edits without first discussing with me as per the guidelines. You demanded me to follow the guidelines while not following them yourself? Who is lacking self-awareness? Does self-awareness only apply to those who beg to differ from you but not yourself or anyone sharing similar POV as you? ] (]) 13:13, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::It is “not lashing defensively” to counter allegations with which I disagree. You are entitled to make them but not entitled to be exempted from rebuttal. Why “can’t” I defend myself when I find your allegations consisting of falsehood and constituting a brazen attack on my personality though what I wanted to do was merely to improve the neutrality of the wordings of certain articles? Is Misplaced Pages an activist outlet for you to promote your POV or a free platform to provide information for those seeking a balanced understanding of a certain field of knowledge? Do you know the purpose of Misplaced Pages in the first place? ] (]) 13:18, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::::You were removing large amounts of material multiple times, often using deceptive edit notes, without first discussing your changes on the talk page. That is why you were reverted. ] (]) 16:15, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::::1. “You were removing large amounts of material multiple times” | |||
:::::::A single paragraph from one article is what constitutes “large amount”? How about the undiscussed massive reversal of my edits without first discussing with me? | |||
:::::::It is obvious that you are applying the standard to those with whom you consider to be in disagreement rather than yourself. | |||
:::::::2. “deceptive edit notes” | |||
:::::::Another personal attack – if not false allegation – on me. Don’t Misplaced Pages’s community guidelines advise users to avoid assumptions of malicious intent? Why aren’t you applying these to yourself and/or those in agreement with you on any points of contention? ] (]) 17:03, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::::::If the intent wasn't to deceive, then why note substantive edits as "fixing typos", as you did ]. ] (]) 18:26, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::Oh my God. This is obviously a loaded question assuming that I was doing something in bad faith – out of your own bias. You are assuming malicious intent again, which is obviously a violation of one of the Misplaced Pages community guidelines you accused me of “committing” when I pointed out the selectivity of your application of the relevant community guidelines. You have basically proved my point that you are engaging in Wikilawyering to “deprecate” editors with whom you may be disagreeing. ] (]) 19:06, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::I think you need to reevaluate your definition of a loaded question if that is what passes for one in your opinion. ] (]) 19:46, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::“A loaded question is a form of complex question that contains a controversial assumption (e.g., a '''presumption of guilt''') | |||
:::::::::::https://en.wikipedia.org/Loaded_question” | |||
:::::::::::Your question: “'''If the intent wasn't to deceive''', then '''why''' note substantive edits as "fixing typos"” | |||
:::::::::::It is NOT my definition. ] (]) 20:41, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::::Still not a loaded question i.e., a question containing a hidden trap or implication. I asked a question backed by facts and you have as of yet failed to answer it. ] (]) 20:59, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::::What definition are you using? I am citing the definition as stated in our Misplaced Pages. You cannot move the goalpost like that to justify your act. You assumed malicious intent on my part when you alleged “deceptive edits” . This is a fact. You cannot turn around to make another allegation appearing to be some kind of straw man. ] (]) 21:04, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::::Your question is not backed by facts. It is backed by your own perception of my edits with which you appear to disagree but fail to follow the guidelines to engage me for a change before reversing my edits as you demanded me to. I am OK if you did it in a friendly manner, but am definitely not OK when you are selectively applying relevant guidelines to put me down and even call for me to be banned. It is totally unacceptable that you seek to destroy a user over a disagreement. ] (]) 21:06, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::::I have said everything I need to. If you insist on not listening but assuming that I am the one entirely wrong for not being in agreement with you over certain wordings within a certain article, I believe that you are the problem instead. Your way of engagement reeks heavily of sophistry, which I am not surprised given that I am older than you and have probably encountered many more netizens than you in my life. ] (]) 21:09, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::Can you please respond to my previous comment as well? Or are you not willing to do so because you realise that the points you made are not reasonable per se? | |||
:::::::::::1. ''“You were removing large amounts of material multiple times”'' | |||
:::::::::::A single paragraph from one article, i.e. The Jewish Chronicle, is what constitutes “large amount”? How about the undiscussed massive reversal of my edits without first discussing with me? | |||
:::::::::::It is obvious that you are applying the standard to those with whom you consider to be in disagreement rather than yourself. | |||
:::::::::::2. ''“deceptive edit notes”'' | |||
:::::::::::Another personal attack – if not false allegation – on me. Don’t Misplaced Pages’s community guidelines advise users to avoid assumptions of malicious intent? Why aren’t you applying these to yourself and/or those in agreement with you on any points of contention? ] (]) 20:43, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::::::::::saying you were only making minor edits while making substantive changes is in fact prima facie deceptive. ] (]) 21:00, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::::::You have not read what I wrote. You are moving the goalpost and avoiding what you have not been able to answer. ] (]) 22:40, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::What do you consider to be a better reason to be input in the relevant box for that specific edit? ] (]) 19:06, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::There’s nothing wrong with amending the relevant content to highlight that it’s a judgement made by “some members of” the Wikimedia community because it’s impossible to have all members sitting down together to do a vote on a random version of a random article. The addition of “some members of” served to improve clarity to readers rather than confuse or obfuscate. I don’t see how improving ambiguous content cannot be seen as “fixing typo” when it’s likely that the original contributors forgot or were not aware of such an issue? ] (]) 19:11, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::This is what you are doing: | |||
:::::::::“'''Wikilawyering''' is a critical term which describes various practices to be avoided in Misplaced Pages. It may refer to: | |||
:::::::::• Applying a portion of a policy or guideline to achieve an objective other than compliance with that policy or guideline or its objectives. Particularly when doing so in a way that is stricter, more categorical or more literal than the norm. | |||
:::::::::• Abiding by the letter of a policy or guideline while violating its spirit or underlying principles. | |||
:::::::::Asserting that the technical interpretation of the policies and guidelines should override the underlying principles they express. | |||
:::::::::'''• Willfully misinterpreting policy or relying on technicalities to justify inappropriate actions.''' | |||
:::::::::'''• Weaponizing policies, guidelines, noticeboards and other Misplaced Pages systems with the goal of deprecating an editor rather than of resolving a problem.'''” ] (]) 19:15, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::::Your deceptive use of Misplaced Pages’s jargons to shut down editors with whom you disagree is more deceptive than anything you have accused me of. I advise you to learn to what self-awareness – if not focus on your third-year law studies – is before going on apparent power trips to throwing all kinds of allegations towards editors with whom you are in apparent disagreement. ] (]) 17:05, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::::::wellington, the one saying that to you, isn't third year law student. I am. Get your parties straight. ] (]) 18:26, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::::::Did I say with absolute certainty that he’s a third-year law student? If he isn’t or has never been but somehow claimed to be, it can be glossed over as it doesn’t blur the focus of my previous response countering relevant allegations which I consider as unfair. ] (]) 19:13, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::::This is what you are doing: | |||
:::::::“'''Wikilawyering''' is a critical term which describes various practices to be avoided in Misplaced Pages. It may refer to: | |||
:::::::• Applying a portion of a policy or guideline to achieve an objective other than compliance with that policy or guideline or its objectives. Particularly when doing so in a way that is stricter, more categorical or more literal than the norm. | |||
:::::::• Abiding by the letter of a policy or guideline while violating its spirit or underlying principles. | |||
:::::::Asserting that the technical interpretation of the policies and guidelines should override the underlying principles they express. | |||
:::::::• Willfully misinterpreting policy or relying on technicalities to justify inappropriate actions. | |||
:::::::• Weaponizing policies, guidelines, noticeboards and other Misplaced Pages systems with the goal of deprecating an editor rather than of resolving a problem.” ] (]) 17:20, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::::This is what you are doing: | |||
:::::::“'''Wikilawyering''' is a critical term which describes various practices to be avoided in Misplaced Pages. It may refer to: | |||
:::::::• Applying a portion of a policy or guideline to achieve an objective other than compliance with that policy or guideline or its objectives. Particularly when doing so in a way that is stricter, more categorical or more literal than the norm. | |||
:::::::• Abiding by the letter of a policy or guideline while violating its spirit or underlying principles. | |||
:::::::Asserting that the technical interpretation of the policies and guidelines should override the underlying principles they express. | |||
:::::::'''• Willfully misinterpreting policy or relying on technicalities to justify inappropriate actions.''' | |||
:::::::'''• Weaponizing policies, guidelines, noticeboards and other Misplaced Pages systems with the goal of deprecating an editor rather than of resolving a problem.'''” ] (]) 19:15, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::1. “You were removing large amounts of material multiple times” | |||
:::::A single paragraph from one article is what constitutes “large amount”? How about the undiscussed massive reversal of my edits without first discussing with me? | |||
:::::It is obvious that you are applying the standard to those with whom you consider to be in disagreement rather than yourself. | |||
:::::2. “deceptive edit notes” | |||
:::::Another personal attack – if not false allegation – on me. Don’t Misplaced Pages’s community guidelines advise users to avoid assumptions of malicious intent? Why aren’t you applying these to yourself and/or those in agreement with you on any points of contention? ] (]) 17:07, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::1. “You were removing large amounts of material multiple times” | |||
:::::A single paragraph from one article is what constitutes “large amount”? How about the undiscussed massive reversal of my edits without first discussing with me? | |||
:::::It is obvious that you are applying the standard to those with whom you consider to be in disagreement rather than yourself. | |||
:::::2. “deceptive edit notes” | |||
:::::Another personal attack – if not false allegation – on me. Don’t Misplaced Pages’s community guidelines advise users to avoid assumptions of malicious intent? Why aren’t you applying these to yourself and/or those in agreement with you on any points of contention? ] (]) 17:07, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::This is what you are doing: | |||
:::::“'''Wikilawyering''' is a critical term which describes various practices to be avoided in Misplaced Pages. It may refer to: | |||
:::::• Applying a portion of a policy or guideline to achieve an objective other than compliance with that policy or guideline or its objectives. Particularly when doing so in a way that is stricter, more categorical or more literal than the norm. | |||
:::::• Abiding by the letter of a policy or guideline while violating its spirit or underlying principles. | |||
:::::Asserting that the technical interpretation of the policies and guidelines should override the underlying principles they express. | |||
:::::• Willfully misinterpreting policy or relying on technicalities to justify inappropriate actions. | |||
:::::• Weaponizing policies, guidelines, noticeboards and other Misplaced Pages systems with the goal of deprecating an editor rather than of resolving a problem.” ] (]) 17:18, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::This is what you are doing: | |||
:::::“'''Wikilawyering''' is a critical term which describes various practices to be avoided in Misplaced Pages. It may refer to: | |||
:::::• Applying a portion of a policy or guideline to achieve an objective other than compliance with that policy or guideline or its objectives. Particularly when doing so in a way that is stricter, more categorical or more literal than the norm. | |||
:::::• Abiding by the letter of a policy or guideline while violating its spirit or underlying principles. | |||
:::::Asserting that the technical interpretation of the policies and guidelines should override the underlying principles they express. | |||
:::::• Willfully misinterpreting policy or relying on technicalities to justify inappropriate actions. | |||
:::::• Weaponizing policies, guidelines, noticeboards and other Misplaced Pages systems with the goal of deprecating an editor rather than of resolving a problem.” ] (]) 17:20, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
:::::This is what you are doing: | |||
:::::“'''Wikilawyering''' is a critical term which describes various practices to be avoided in Misplaced Pages. It may refer to: | |||
:::::• Applying a portion of a policy or guideline to achieve an objective other than compliance with that policy or guideline or its objectives. Particularly when doing so in a way that is stricter, more categorical or more literal than the norm. | |||
:::::• Abiding by the letter of a policy or guideline while violating its spirit or underlying principles. | |||
:::::Asserting that the technical interpretation of the policies and guidelines should override the underlying principles they express. | |||
:::::'''• Willfully misinterpreting policy or relying on technicalities to justify inappropriate actions.''' | |||
:::::'''• Weaponizing policies, guidelines, noticeboards and other Misplaced Pages systems with the goal of deprecating an editor rather than of resolving a problem.'''” ] (]) 19:17, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::::The alleged copying and pasting occurs because you have not been able to address my counter-points to your allegations. ] (]) 20:46, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
::::::::Copying and pasting the same thing <s>five</s> eight times suggests you're not actually listening to anything anyone is telling you. 19:18, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
===Unsolicited Advice=== | |||
Steven, consider that one of two things is happening. An increasingly large list of unrelated editors have all looked at your conduct and said that it is not good, but you assert that it was fine. The two possibilities are: | |||
1) This growing list of editors, generally more experienced than you, are all simultaneously and identically wrong or conspiring to blame you. In which case this is clearly not the community for you, for the same reason I wouldn't go onto a flat-earther page and expect to last long. | |||
2) You're mistaken, and your conduct, despite your intent and reasoning, has been had the result of being problematic. | |||
I'd suggest that #2 is more likely, and also is the only case in which you could have a future editing Misplaced Pages. I'm telling you this because if you carry on how you have been, you will quickly be blocked as ], perhaps lose talk page access, and then your expertise will be lost to Misplaced Pages, and whatever changes you envisioned will take much longer to materialize. | |||
If you're okay with that, then I'll just watch how this plays out. Otherwise, I encourage you to try to see if there's any way you could see your actions being interpreted the way the complaint asserted. You may be completely confident that you're in the right, but quite a few independent experienced editors say otherwise, and trying to figure out what you can do differently to get along is necessary to staying on this website. After all, if everyone in a crowd says there's a train coming, even if you don't see it, sometimes it's best to get off the tracks. ] (]) 21:00, 20 September 2024 (UTC) | |||
== September 2024 == | == September 2024 == |
Revision as of 00:26, 21 September 2024
Welcome!
|
Regressive left
You need to read WP:VERIFY and WP:RS as well as WP:NOR. Many new editors have the same problem. However, is this your first account? You seem to have a good knowledge of inline citations. If you wish to discuss your edit, please use the article talk page so others can participate. Thanks. Doug Weller talk 10:37, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
February 2019
You have been blocked from editing for a period of 48 hours for edit warring and editing logged out to evade scrutiny, as you did at Regressive left. Once the block has expired, you are welcome to make useful contributions. If you think there are good reasons for being unblocked, please read the guide to appealing blocks, then add the following text below the block notice on your talk page:{{unblock|reason=Your reason here ~~~~}}
. Bishonen | talk 12:05, 7 February 2019 (UTC)
Images
Hello. Sorry you're having issues with adding images to 2019 Hong Kong anti-extradition bill protests. We've been having some issues with a persistent vandal. I've made a change which will hopefully be good for the rest of today - about 4 hours - please take the opportunity to add some images. -- zzuuzz 19:49, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
- If you want to add images, now's a good time. -- zzuuzz 08:36, 18 July 2019 (UTC)
Erroneous captions to 2 of your images on the St Andrews Cathedral page of Misplaced Pages
You have uploaded two photographs you have taken onto the St Andrews Cathedral page of Misplaced Pages. Both feature the Tower of St Rule's along with what you call St Rule's "western turrets". This is not correct. What you call "western turrets" is, in fact, the (remains of) the eastern wall of the (later) sanctuary. The parallax caused by the angle of your photos may have misled you. My source? Cruden, Stuart (1950), St Andrews Cathedral - Official Guide, Edinburgh: Her Majesty's Statioery Office, ISBN 0-11-490696-3. I guess any more recent guidebook with a decent map of the site would do, but Cruden's two maps and photo no. 4 seem definitive. I don't know whether you can correct your errors (if not you, who can?) but if they aren't corrected soon I shall raise the matter on the Talk page of 'St Andrews Cathedral'. ShropshirePilgrim (talk) 09:44, 8 October 2023 (UTC)
- Would you mind correcting them for me then? Steven1991 (talk) 03:15, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- I have edited the captions as you request. Unfortunately, the actual file title to one of them mentions the supposed "St Rule's Western turrets" and its image shows the deceptive parallax which might lead the viewer to accept the notion that the "turrets" (of the Eastern wall of the later Cathedral are actually in line with the axis of St Rule's Church, when your other picture shows plainly that they are not. I know of no way that the file's title (as opposed to its description or caption) can be altered/edited. If you know of a way, it should be corrected to avoid any further confusion. ShropshirePilgrim (talk) 12:13, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
- Thank you so much for your help. Steven1991 (talk) 10:28, 20 September 2024 (UTC)
- I have edited the captions as you request. Unfortunately, the actual file title to one of them mentions the supposed "St Rule's Western turrets" and its image shows the deceptive parallax which might lead the viewer to accept the notion that the "turrets" (of the Eastern wall of the later Cathedral are actually in line with the axis of St Rule's Church, when your other picture shows plainly that they are not. I know of no way that the file's title (as opposed to its description or caption) can be altered/edited. If you know of a way, it should be corrected to avoid any further confusion. ShropshirePilgrim (talk) 12:13, 18 November 2023 (UTC)
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September 2024
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