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Revision as of 18:50, 10 January 2025 view sourceChris55 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Rollbackers9,464 edits Protestors weren't armed← Previous edit Revision as of 18:55, 10 January 2025 view source A Quest For Knowledge (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, Pending changes reviewers, Rollbackers24,193 edits Protestors weren't armed: What is "capitol" in this context? Is it United States Capitol or United States Capitol Complex?Next edit →
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:Didn't Babit have a knife? ] (]) 18:18, 10 January 2025 (UTC) :Didn't Babit have a knife? ] (]) 18:18, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
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:Can I ask a stupid question? What is "capitol" in this context? Is it ] or ]? ] (]) 18:55, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

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    ConsensusCurrent consensus on size and organization:

    Current consensus on naming and terminology:

    • The page's title was moved to 'January 6 United States Capitol attack' after this move request.
    • The decision to not use the word "urge" in the lead, in reference to Trump's actions, was agreed in this subsection.
    • There is no consensus to call this event Terrorism as per this RFC

    WP:ACDS actions:

    • Under ACDS, starting Jan 16, a move request cannot be opened nor be closed to move to a title using the word "insurrection" for a month. See the Arbitration enforcement log (diff) for details. Expired since Feb 16, 2021
    • Under ACDS, only users who possess the extended-confirmed user right may close discussions for this page. See the Arbitration enforcement log (diff) for details.
    This article has previously been nominated to be moved. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination.
    Discussions:
    • RM, 2021 United States Capitol protests → 2021 United States coup d'etat attempt, Not moved, 6 January 2021, discussion
    • RM, 2021 United States Capitol protests → 2021 storming of the United States Capitol, Moved, 6 January 2021, discussion
    • RM, 2021 storming of the United States Capitol → United States Capitol insurrection, Procedural close, 7 January 2021, discussion
    • RM, 2021 storming of the United States Capitol → 2021 breach of the United States Capitol, Procedural close, 8 January 2021, discussion
    • RM, 2021 storming of the United States Capitol → The Trump insurrection, Procedural close, 9 January 2021, discussion
    • RM, 2021 storming of the United States Capitol → 2021 breach of US Capitol, Not moved, 15 January 2021, discussion
    • RM, 2021 storming of the United States Capitol → Storming of the United States Capitol, Procedural close, 16 January 2021, discussion
    • RM, 2021 storming of the United States Capitol → Insurrection at the United States Capitol, Not moved, 16 January 2021, discussion
    • RM, 2021 storming of the United States Capitol → 2021 Terrorist Attack on the United States Capitol, Not moved, 21 January 2021, discussion
    • RM, 2021 storming of the United States Capitol → 2021 United States Capitol riot, Not moved, 23 January 2021, discussion
    • RM, 2021 storming of the United States Capitol → 2021 United States Capitol attack, Not moved, 4 February 2021, discussion
    • RM, 2021 storming of the United States Capitol → Storming of the United States Capitol, Procedural close, 16 February 2021, discussion
    • RM, 2021 storming of the United States Capitol → January 6 United States Capitol attack, Moved to 2021 United States Capitol attack, 31 May 2021, discussion
    • Move Review initiated 1 June 2021. Overturned, moved to 2021 storming of the United States Capitol, 1 August 2021, discussion
    • RM, 2021 storming of the United States Capitol → 2021 United States Capitol attack, Moved to 2021 United States Capitol attack, 2 August 2021, discussion
    • RM, 2021 United States Capitol attack → January 6 attack, Not moved, 7 November 2021, discussion
    • RM, 2021 United States Capitol attack → January 6 United States Capitol attack, No consensus, 8 January 2022, discussion
    • RM, 2021 United States Capitol attack → January 6 United States Capitol attack, Moved, 28 July 2022, discussion
    • RM, January 6 United States Capitol attack → 2021 United States Capitol attack, Not moved, 9 January 2023, discussion
    • RM, January 6 United States Capitol attack → 2021 United States coup d'état attempt, Not moved, 31 January 2023, discussion
    • RM, January 6 United States Capitol attack → January 6, 2021 United States Capitol attack, No consensus, 21 January 2024, discussion
    • RM, January 6 United States Capitol attack → January 6 insurrection, No consensus, 26 January 2024, discussion
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    The contents of the Save America March page were merged into January 6 United States Capitol attack on 6 January 2021. For the contribution history and old versions of the redirected page, please see its history; for the discussion at that location, see its talk page.
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    A special subpage has been created to develop supporting materials for any current or future article naming discussions, on a collaborative basis: Talk:2021 storming of the United States Capitol/Ongoing analysis of naming trends. Please hold a discussion on which evidence is relevant for naming purposes there (particularly pertaining to search engine results).

    Section sizes
    Section size for January 6 United States Capitol attack (60 sections)
    Section name Byte
    count
    Section
    total
    (Top) 96,589 96,589
    Background 35 70,087
    Attempts to overturn the presidential election 14,742 14,742
    Planning of January 6 events 14,344 26,523
    Seditious conspiracy by Oath Keepers and Proud Boys 12,179 12,179
    Predictions of violence 16,219 16,219
    Law enforcement and National Guard preparations 12,568 12,568
    Trump supporters gather in D.C. 14,944 50,533
    January 5 meetings 3,724 3,724
    Bombs placed 5,338 5,338
    January 6 Trump rally 13,193 26,527
    Trump's speech 13,334 13,334
    Attack on the Capitol 4,112 83,390
    Proud Boys march to Capitol as mob assembles 4,065 4,065
    Bombs discovered near Capitol Complex 168 168
    Attack begins near Peace Monument, led by Proud Boys 13,370 13,370
    Attackers on west terrace breach Senate Wing hallway 16,496 16,496
    Evacuation of leadership amid Capitol lockdown 27,665 27,665
    Oath Keepers arrive and breach Rotunda 2,419 2,419
    Ashli Babbitt killed by police while attempting to breach Speaker's Lobby 7,543 7,543
    Attack on the tunnel 5,919 5,919
    Police clear the Capitol and Congress reconvenes 1,633 1,633
    Federal officials' conduct 31 51,269
    Trump's conduct 11,525 30,978
    Inflammatory speech while knowing of weapons 2,931 2,931
    Allegation of assaulting a Secret Service driver 4,650 4,650
    Endangering Mike Pence 8,943 8,943
    Failure to end the attack 2,929 2,929
    Capitol Police leadership's failure to prepare 2,779 2,779
    Department of Defense leadership's refusal to send Guard 12,174 12,174
    Congressional conduct 2,885 2,885
    Deletion of Secret Service and Homeland Security text messages 2,422 2,422
    Participants, groups, and criminal charges 6,735 64,090
    Proud Boys 4,099 4,099
    Oath Keepers 6,206 6,206
    QAnon 9,272 9,272
    White supremacists, neo-Nazis, and neo-Confederates 12,298 12,298
    Others 8,225 8,225
    Police and military connections 6,169 6,169
    Analysis 11,086 11,086
    Results 12 26,840
    Casualties and suicides 14,713 14,713
    Damage 8,240 8,240
    Laptop theft and cybersecurity concerns 3,875 3,875
    Aftermath 16 16,507
    Political, legal, and social repercussions 8,175 8,175
    Domestic reactions 3,141 3,141
    International reactions 131 131
    14th Amendment disqualification 3,393 3,393
    Sarbanes–Oxley Act prosecutions ruling and impact 988 988
    2025 pardons and commutations 663 663
    Analysis and terminology 1,754 12,290
    Historians' perspectives 10,536 10,536
    See also 1,403 1,403
    Notes 31 31
    References 17,232 17,232
    External links 964 10,438
    Federal government 3,127 3,127
    Video 2,140 2,140
    Timeline 4,207 4,207
    Total 500,699 500,699

    Interim report December 17, 2024

    On page 69 it says that Miller disobeyed an order from Trump because Miller did not want the public to view him as a "Trump crony." I think this may be relevant enough to add to the article, but I'd like to know what others think.

    https://cha.house.gov/_cache/files/6/d/6dae7b82-7683-4f56-a177-ba98695e600d/145DD5A70E967DEEC1F511764D3E6FA1.final-interim-report.pdf#page71

    The Last Hungry Cat (talk) 19:23, 18 December 2024 (UTC)

    Describing the riot as a "coup" may not be the best thing to call it.

    Yes, this was a violent attack on the US government and there are many sources that support the characterization of the event as a coup, but not many of these sources are of high reliability or high neutrality, and some seem to just say that the labeling of the event as a "coup" has been popular (not saying that that's what the event actually was). If you need me to show some reliable sources of my own, here are some that call the "coup" term into dispute or use the word "riot" instead: https://www.maxwell.syr.edu/news/article/was-jan-6-an-insurrection-a-failed-coup-cleary-discusses-with-politico https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2022/01/04/a-look-back-at-americans-reactions-to-the-jan-6-riot-at-the-u-s-capitol/ https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2022/08/19/jan-6-coup-authoritarianism-expert-roundtable-00052281 https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-67889403

    LordOfWalruses (talk) 02:24, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    
    A source not saying coup, is not the same as a source saying it was not a coup. Slatersteven (talk) 11:29, 5 January 2025 (UTC)
    The source did not describe a self coup. We should not be putting words into sources. Slothwizard (talk) 23:51, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    Well they did say that the classification of the Jan. 6 riot as a coup is in dispute. The article should say that some/many have described the event as a coup, though this article shouldn’t state that clarification as a certified fact. LordOfWalruses (talk) 00:28, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
    I came to this article after seeing the Misplaced Pages blurb below a YouTube video stating definitively that it was a "self-coup d'état". I really don't think the events of January 6th, while deplorable, fit that definition and we need to be aware that statements made on Misplaced Pages end up in very prominent places and are treated in those contexts as matters of fact.
    I think it's perfectly fine to include the characterization in the article somehow, since there are multiple reliable sources using the term "coup" in their coverage, but stating in the voice of Misplaced Pages that "it was a coup" is not appropriate. Big Thumpus (talk) 17:23, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
    We go by what RS say, RS have described it as one. Slatersteven (talk) 17:26, 7 January 2025 (UTC)
    Not all RS say that it's a coup (see the sources in my talk page as an example). LordOfWalruses (talk) 01:20, 9 January 2025 (UTC)

    Keep this article safe

    Please keep it here. Correditor56 (talk) 16:32, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

    it's not going anywhere EvergreenFir (talk) 17:11, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    As with the above, it ain't going anywhere. Slatersteven (talk) 17:15, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    Yeah, but protect it from any vandalism Correditor56 (talk) 17:37, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    We don't protect pages preemptively. Lee Vilenski 17:40, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    I agree the page should be protected from vandalism. I would suggest entering a ticket at the Misplaced Pages:Requests for page protection I don't see why the consensus would reject this but I would still go ahead and submit the ticket. Butterscotch5 (talk) 17:41, 6 January 2025 (UTC)
    I already put in a ticket. Correditor56 (talk) 21:03, 6 January 2025 (UTC)

    Size of Crowd?

    The article has the number of arrested and those that entered the Capitol building, but it doesn’t have the size of the initial crowd. The Congressional report has an estimate of 53,000 at the rally, with 25,000 inside the security boundary and 28,000 outside the magnetometers. I didn’t see a number for how many moved to the Capitol.

    Mdnahas (talk) 14:49, 7 January 2025 (UTC)

    Protestors weren't armed

    The lede states "As Congress began the electoral vote count, thousands of attendees, some armed, walked to the Capitol, and hundreds breached police perimeters". This gives the impression that some of those who reached the Capitol were armed. It is my understanding from searching the web at the time that all of the protestors had to go through airport-style security checks before they got close to the Capitol and indeed this was the main reason that the outcome was not more serious than it was.

    The references for the above statement only talk about armed mobs approaching Washington and the like. Clearly some protestors had banners etc. which they turned into weapons, but there were no firearms or knives or other lethal weapons. Can someone find the references I found at the time? Chris55 (talk) 17:53, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

    Armed doesn't mean firearms or bladed weapons. They did use weapons (chemical spray, batons, etc). EvergreenFir (talk) 17:56, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
    I said "gives the impression" and stand by that. I read about chemical sprays: was this a failure of the security system or a conscious decision? Chris55 (talk) 18:08, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
    There were firearms at January 6. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:14, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
    Trump claimed there was "not one gun" amid Jan. 6 rioters. Here are some of the guns at the Capitol that day | CBS News – Muboshgu (talk) 18:13, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
    An interesting article. But it's not clear in most instances that the weapons were actually carried into the Capitol. e.g. Banuelos is photoed against the background of a spectator stand. Was this inside or outside? And remember gun laws are much tighter in DC so the arrests could have been made outside. Chris55 (talk) 18:25, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
    Missouri Man Sentenced on Felony Weapons Charge for Actions During Jan. 6 Capitol Breach | DOJ
    Texas Man Convicted of Carrying Firearm onto Capitol Grounds During Jan. 6 Capitol Breach | DOJ
    California woman stormed Capitol during Jan. 6 riot with sword, steel whip and pepper spray, FBI says | CBS News – Muboshgu 
    I think that makes my point. "Mares was observed on January 6th with an object consistent with that of a firearm on his right hip underneath a camouflage shirt while in the District". Bargar's case is clearer. But all the same, no weapons were actually used in anger in the building apart from banner-poles. Even Babbitt's knife (which might be hard to spot on x-ray). And given the number of guns in the US, that is worth a mention. Chris55 (talk) 18:48, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

    (talk) 18:30, 10 January 2025 (UTC)

    Didn't Babit have a knife? Slatersteven (talk) 18:18, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
    She did. – Muboshgu (talk) 18:27, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
    Can I ask a stupid question? What is "capitol" in this context? Is it United States Capitol or United States Capitol Complex? A Quest For Knowledge (talk) 18:55, 10 January 2025 (UTC)
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