Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 07:23, 22 May 2007

Turkey Stub‑class Low‑importance

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Turkey, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Turkey and related topics on Misplaced Pages. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.TurkeyWikipedia:WikiProject TurkeyTemplate:WikiProject TurkeyTurkey Stub This article has been rated as Stub-class on Misplaced Pages's content assessment scale. Low This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Removing evidence

Artaxiad, before you revert the page, you shall discuss your changes and provide an explanation why relevant referenced information is just being removed. Garabedian was one of the leaders of ASALA, and came to prominence carrying out attacks on behalf of this organizations. So, you should not be removing this material. Atabek 09:59, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Just because its referenced doesn't mean it stays, I checked the references there irrelevant no mention of Varoujan what so ever that was my purpose for the removal, thanks. Please check them yourself or at least clarify or else it counts as original research, because they don't mention him, also not reliable sources. Artaxiad 16:52, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

The references provided only state that ASALA was considered as terrorist organization by US State Department, which is absolutely relevant. It only adds to well-sourced information in the article. Garabedian was one of the main leaders of ASALA, in fact, he was even suspected of being Hagop Hagopian, whose claimed murder in Athens remained in controversy. Garabedian would not be known otherwise if he wasn't a functionary and executor of ASALA's agenda. Atabek 08:03, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Corrected with minor edit the title of category Armenian Terrorism. The article should refer to that, while category is still there. Atabek 18:35, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

Evidence

Atabek do you have any sources confirming his membership in ASALA? Vartanm 20:13, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

hri.org source claims to gotten the news from Noyan-Tapan News agency. When searching the archives of NT for the said news article, claiming that he was greeted at a highest state level, I couldn't find anything. ,,Vartanm 20:19, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Atabek I removed all 3 sources because they were irrelevant to the article. None of them proved what you were claiming. Vartanm 20:40, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

Vartan, first of all, you should not remove sources without discussion. What do you mean it's irrelevant? The person was caught and charged with terrorist attack, killing scores of people at Orly Airport. He served jail sentence for it. Why is there a confusion about the facts and/or references being removed? Adding everything back. Also, I don't understand why Fedayee removed the Turkophobia tag. Was ASALA created and Garabedian committed his attacks out of love of Turkey? Atabek 11:01, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

First source.

ASALA had not conducted terrorist attacks in several years, however, and it is unclear whether the attack was carried out by ASALA, individual Armenians with no terrorist affiliation, or another terrorist group--such as the Kurdistan Workers' Party--using Yanikian as a covername. ASALA has been inactive since 1986.

Second source.

A Report on the PKK and Terrorism. what does PKK has to do with ASALA?

Third source

On December 19, in Budapest, unknown assailants fired several rounds at a car carrying Bedrettin Tunabas. unknown means it could have been my grandmother who was shooting.

You see Atabek none of the sources you provided say ASALA was named as a terrorist organization by the U.S. State Department Vartanm 15:36, 11 May 2007 (UTC)

Garabedyan was greeted at highest level in Armenia. Even Armenian human rights activists criticized the Armenian government for that. I forgot the name of the guy (I think it was Danielyan), but I can find the quote from Armenian sources about this. I think his info should remain in the article. Grandmaster 17:04, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Vartanm, stop removing references and engaging in edit wars. The reference you remove from HRI, without reading, contains 1997 Department of State Report on Patterns of Global terrorism, which clearly, includes the sentence: "...a covername used by the Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia (ASALA), terrorist organization during the 1980s". Another reference you removed with 1991 State Department Briefing says:

• Q An Armenian terrorist organization, ASALA, 6 years

later, they started shooting again -- the Turkish diplomat in Budapest. Do you have anything about that?

• MR. SNYDER: Yes. On December 19, in Budapest, unknown

assailants fired several rounds at a car carrying Bedrettin Tunabas, the Turkish Ambassador to Hungary. Fortunately, the Ambassador, his security guard, and his driver all escaped injury. The attack was reportedly claimed by ASALA -- that is, the Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia."

With all due assuming of good faith, I think you're clearly engaging in an edit war taking advantage of being excluded from the recent ArbCom case. I shall inform you, that per ArbCom decisions, the ArbCom case is open ended, and can be reopened at any time with inclusion of new users clearly engaging in an edit war. So follow the guidelines, discuss your edits and stop removing references, especially with regards to information pertaining to indisputable terrorist activities. Atabek 16:31, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Atabek, your accusation that I blind reverted this article is idiotic. My suggestion is that you read the discussion page and take notice that I've read all 3 sources and provided answers why the sources were misleading. And if you read the article you will see that I didn't removed but replaced your misleading sources with a source coming from US State department not HRI. VartanM 17:12, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Vartan, watch your language when discussing on talk page, or get punished for violating . You have been warned. You will put back the reference to "meeting at highest state level". That's exactly what one of the references, namely RFE/RL article, which you failed to read, says:

Meeting in Yerevan on 4 May with Varoujan Garabedian, a former member of ASALA (the Armenian Secret Army for the Liberation of Armenia), Prime Minister Andranik Markarian expressed his "joy" at Garabedian's release from a French jail where he served almost 18 years of a life sentence for his alleged role in the 1983 bombing of the Turkish Airlines Office at Ory airport, Noyan Tapan and RFE/RL's Yerevan bureau reported. Garabedian, who was born in Syria, was released on the condition that he be expelled to Armenia. The French daily "Liberation" reported at the time of Garabedian's release last month that Yerevan Mayor Robert Nazarian had pledged to provide him with employment and accommodation.

Meeting by Prime Minister and special accomodation by the Mayor, is not any criminal released from jail gets. Atabek 19:21, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Atabek, perhaps you should be aware of , you're the first one who accused me of not reading, I only responded to your attack. And again you failed to read the discussion, if you read the discussion you would've seen that your source at hri.org refers to Noyan-Tapan news agency. And when searching the archives of said news agency nothing comes up under Varoujan Garabedian or ASALA during the time period provided. VartanM 19:58, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Oh, I am sorry for your persistence, I will let independent judges to decide whether the use of the word "idiotic" is appropriate in response to assertion that you haven't read. The source I brought above is actually from Radio Liberty and not HRI, the HRI source cited the State Department report. Which once more proves that you haven't familiarized yourself with (or plainly haven't read) any of the references. Radio Liberty source cites not only Noyan Tapan but also French newspaper Liberation, and quite honestly there is more ground to trust Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty as a leading independent media source than Armenian Noyan Tapan agency which removes the reference that does not serve limited interests from its archives. Atabek 20:45, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Why is it that when I click on RFE/RL link it takes me to HRI.org. I think I have proven my point that you use misleading sources. VartanM 23:26, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

And I guess your point was puny, because I just added the link directly to RFE/RL archive with the same article. Atabek 00:45, 16 May 2007 (UTC)

Category edits

Moving anti-Turkism to Turcophobia category. Also, the person was convicted and served sentence for a terrorist attack, no need to remove terrorist category here. Atabek 06:49, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Do you source that says he is a convicted terrorist? I'm removing the terrorist category until you provide sources.VartanM 07:18, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

It would not hurt if you once read the references on the page before reverting them. Second reference to Agence France Presse article, starts with: "Le terroriste arménien, Varoujan Garbidjian...". Atabek 07:23, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

• Stub-Class Turkey articles
• Low-importance Turkey articles
• All WikiProject Turkey pages