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TV

The things that I always look for are:

• fully referenced to independent sources (in this case largely the ABC)
• fairly portray both sides of the debate
• doesn't use emotive language

and this appears to satisfy all three. Dunno if any of the work at City of Geraldton-Greenough and Shire of Northam, two recent WA amalgamations, can help at all - depends on how imminent or not it is, and what processes exist to make it happen. Orderinchaos 14:33, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Just a syllabic abbreviation (I have a cold, which probably doesn't help :P) And cool. Although the LG Advisory Board is involved in the WA ones, it's been driven from the local level itself so seems less controversial. There's been a lot of ward stuff happening everywhere too, many councils have abolished wards at either the 2003 or 2005 election. Our next ones are October 2007 btw. Orderinchaos 14:51, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks... It would be great if it hadn't hit in the middle of assignment season. WA has a lot of rural microcouncils (and one metro one... Shire of Peppermint Grove which is literally 6 blocks by 3 blocks!), many of which have become micro by attrition from agricultural activity which has since become uneconomical. Literally every town in the Wheatbelt of any size has its own - and there's even one in the Mid West with no town at all. Orderinchaos 15:07, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

(amalgamation debate)

Hi what you have added is fine, the only thing I can say is about the last bit, I will try to say it so that I am easy to understand.... the amount of people that are for the amalgamation is high due to more people living in Townsville, Thuringowa did a survey some time back and very few people of Thuringowa wanted to amalgamate, this info was not made public but I am working with the mayor to make it public and if he does maybe this can be added. Everything else is fine, I know how you feel but after talking to a lot of people, if this does go though everybody's rates will rise, and Townsville will have to go into even bigger debt to change over all that used to be Thuringowa...no one has thought of that except for both Mayor's and Mooney wont say anything because he will be the winner (more land plus all the things that Thuringowa has that he wants) and the Rate Payers, people renting and business owners will be the losers. I hope it doesn't happen because I like living in the fastest growing city Thanks for asking for my thoughts, keep up all the great edits. Thuringowacityrep 04:27, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

• I have a meeting with the Mayor next week about a music festival, but I will ask him again to make the info public, as it will help in the fight to stop the amalgamation, I know it is my POV but I feel that this sort of thing would be good for say Ayr, Brandon and home hill because it will increase the population there and they may get better gov support, but it seems odd that Brisy is left out, if they want to cut back on all the councils i think Brisy would the best place to start, with all the LGA's there. Plus I feel that it would really stuff up the people in remote Queensland, they were talking about putting Aramac, Muttaburra plus a few others all in to Longreach but the problem there is the distance, it's over 200k's between the towns, I better stop now I could go on for hours about this, I'm not just against it here in Thuringowa but in all of Qld.

well if this info is made public I will let you know and if I have anymore info that I can cite I will also let you know. take care Thuringowacityrep 13:04, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

• Hi again that info i was talking about has been made public and it shows a lot of good info, the pages are large and may take a while to download but it would be good if you can have a look and update the Townsville page with the new info

the links are

1:

2:

3:

4:

hope this info helps, i will be using some of it on the Thuringowa page, you need any help pleas eask me and i will try my best. take care Thuringowacityrep 09:35, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Hi TCR, yes I've seen that one, I've read the exec summery, but I'm reading the small print of the Tvl City Council one first. There probably is quite a bit good info in these documents however they are both anti-amalgamation (surprise surprise) and we have to be very careful for POV as the Councils have a very obvious political conflict of interest. I see you've been busy writing online letters to the ed with the Tvl Bulletin :) good on you for getting into it. I'll make adjustments to the articles as I read the documents, feel free to let me know if you don't like what I write. Cheers, Alec 09:47, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

From a personal perspective I find it very interesting that Mooney is more open to amalgamating with Palm Island than Thuringowa :-D personally I don't think Palm Island is ready yet to be mainstreamed again, they're going through so much reform already this would just be another thing on top of all that. We live in interesting times. Alec 09:57, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

I will have a good read of the Tvl one, i just had a quick look....i have sent a few letters and feedback in to the Bully as have some other people i see and that is great, i'm not wanting to stop the amalgamation just to keep Thuringowa alive, i can see what will happen if it goes on ....Townsville will have a big debt to try and pay for so up will go the rates and the will effect busisness, home owners and renters. Funny guy that Mooney but your right Palm island doesn't need this. lets hope what ever the gov does ti all works out ok. or i'll be off the US Thuringowacityrep 10:46, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

North Queensland Stub notice

• Hi Alec I have tried a couple of things but I do not currently see why it is doing that or how to fix it. Sorry! --VS 06:32, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
  • Well done - simple solution but obscure at first.--VS 07:12, 6 May 2007 (UTC)

• Hi Alec - I've moved the new stub template to {{NorthQueensland-stub}} as per the discussion at WP:WSS/P and normal stub naming guidelines (no spaces in stub template names!) and given it a proper stub category. Hope you don't mind :) Grutness...wha? 07:02, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

O.K

Alec, I KNOW you're a lenient man...now, come on!

I was merely asking Leo44 a question...I am genuinely interested in seeing if he has that music and is able to send the files to me via Soulseek. Obviously you weren't as sharp regarding the finer detail of my message, as you were at picking up every minor indiscretion I've made in the past. Irwinclan

You are most welcome

I often encourage others (specially new users) to keep reverse engineering others user or talk pages to find things that they can relate to - hey enjoy! SatuSuro 11:30, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Hoooo gotta be careful then - have you tagged your project pages (talk pages with WP Australia Townsville=yes - thaat might keep you out of mischief!SatuSuro 11:35, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Whatever you have to do - hey just keep at it! SatuSuro 11:47, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

Yeah I'm a fan of "there's no copyright on ideas", if you see something that looks good (esp if it's pretemplated), pinch it :) Orderinchaos 12:53, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

WTF

Hello? If the grammar is wrong, you change it. Ther'es ONE official language, not more than one, so it's SINGULAR. The template system is not some unchangeable god that can't be flexible to the case by case information. I'm reverting it. Tony 00:19, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

Instead of retorting, why not explain first up. Tony 02:54, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

SMH

Geeze mate, give me some time no need to yell. DXRAW 08:23, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

• Just wanted to say it was nice to see your name on my dispatches again Alec. You may have noticed my comments on talk:SMH It seems that DXRAW is wanting to argue all points at this time - no take, all give, no flexibility, no WP:AGF - maybe s/he is having a hard day? --VS 10:21, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

hi

Sorry that I may have appeared to be grumpy. Cheers. Tony 01:32, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

flag pulled down by medal

heheh - with no comment either - good one - I think the 'patriots' would thump you on the medal pulling it down though. cheers. heheheh SatuSuro 14:20, 21 May 2007 (UTC)

Stop, please

I have read the comments other people have left on your user page. I can see that you are not very popular on wikipedia. So I guess it is not really my problem that I don't like you either. Please take a step back and ponder why your personality and actions here invited such negative comments.
I have been a contributor to[REDACTED] since 2001. I have learned how to be a good citizen here. I hope you would try to be one too. I have noticed that you have been removing my additions because you believe you are some kind of syntax police here. According to my book, you are doing more disservice here than contributing. Everyone here collaborates on the articles. If you found something not good enough, you improve it yourself or you request an improvement. You don't delete it without leaving a note to the other contributor. I don't monitor every single contribution that I made. When you remove my contribution from a few months back, it might be gone forever when I am not aware of it. I can understand everyone can revert vandalism without a strict process. However, I strongly believe you need to show some respect to other people's genuine contributions. If you believe my work here are vandalism please confront me directly and let me know why you thought so. I don't care if you were given admin privilege or not. If you were an admin, I'd suggest you resign due to your misconduct here. Kowloonese 19:07, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Take a deep breath and cool down mate, the reason I reverted you edit was because you randomly inserted her name in Chinese characters without even indicating what language it was, let alone that it was her name, I don't have the expertise to improve upon that particular contribution and so I removed it as it was not a helpful addition to the article without further clarification. I do apologise for not letting you know on your talk page but there is no need to assume bad faith on my behalf, if you look a little deeper into the discussions I have had you will find that I have very good relations with many long term Australian wikipedians and it is mostly short term vandals who have resented me reverting their rubbish that have left negative comments on my talk page. Anyway as a long term wikipeadian I hope you can assume good faith and in future make your contributions a little more clearer for the reader of an article. Cheers, Alec 22:47, 24 May 2007 (UTC) (PS. I'm not really one to take offence easily, but please also note that it is against[REDACTED] policy to attack another user in the way you have on my talk page)

I apologize for not being more diplomatic. Your intention was unclear to me and I was upset. Sorry. Cheers. Handshake??  :-) Kowloonese

discussion continues at Talk:Penny Wong

I'm removing the reference to the Chinese translation of her name in 24 hours unless a reference has been provided that it is actually an alternative name for this person that is actually used. Cheers, Alec 13:09, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

See the response I added to the Penny Wong talk page. Also see my discussion with another user at

Rudd

Kevin Rudd's raport with middle Australia was in many people's opinion smothered by this revelation as to the inaccuracy of his claimed eviction. This statement is not inflamatory, just the truth. Please leave your political views at the door good sir. Somehow I doubt whether this would have been picked up on John Howard's page...I will leave you with this thought if I may

Hi anon, thanks for your reply, for your info the John Howard article is vandalised (and reverted) many times as well, in fact it has had to be protected from anon users. Expressions of a political view point are against[REDACTED] policy and are reverted on all pages of any political side. Please check out[REDACTED] policy below to find out more about how to contribute constructively to this encyclopaedia. Thanks,Alec

Therese Rein

It seems ok for now, but I will keep an eye on it. Thanks, Garion96 (talk) 18:58, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

Local government in Australia is new ACOTF

Hi Alec. You voted for Local government in Australia for Australian collaboration of the fortnight. It has been selected, so please help to improve it in any way you can. Thanks. --Scott Davis 13:52, 27 May 2007 (UTC)

58.165.66.172 (talk · contribs · deleted contribs · filter log · WHOIS · RDNS · RBLs · http · block user · block log)

FYI, prior to your warning, I've blocked this user as a suspected sockpuppet of Universe Daily. Cheers. -- Longhair\ 09:27, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

Uncontested seats

Hi TS, sorry for bringing this up after you've done all that work, but just to put it out there I thought it might be better to give uncontested seats its own column as the format it is in at the moment is a bit unclear and potentially confusing. Your thoughts? Alec 09:18, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Don't spose you want to do it? Just move UC^ to a new column :P Timeshift 09:30, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

lol, precisely what I hoped you wouldn't say :P. Yeah I'll do it no probs :) Alec 09:32, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Thanks :-) Timeshift 09:34, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Sorry!!! I forgot I committed to do that! just ask if there's anything I can do to make it up to you. Cheers, Alec 13:37, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Tis cool. Only took ~half an hour anyway. I'll let you know if I need something done though ;-) Timeshift 19:01, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

You could do something actually... the more I see the UC column there, the more I think I should have put it as the last column, after the change column. Thoughts? If you agree, want to do some cut and pasting? Far easier than the first task - doing the research and creating the columns :-) Timeshift 02:09, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

all done :) Alec 07:41, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks :D Now to find something else I can add to the elections... Timeshift 08:45, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Do you think the tables still look out of whack with the UC column? I'm trying to think of a better layout to include the info but i'm struggling... Timeshift 08:12, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Hmm, the problem with that is on smaller res/screens it will be all distorted, especially where there are a few independents... Timeshift 10:09, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Do you think the elected unopposed bit might also distort the view on smaller res? Just a thought, other than that, the heading looks out of place too far to the right. Other than that, it's a better solution to what exists now IMHO. Timeshift 10:30, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

I like I like!! :D Table format looks a bit funky tho o.O Timeshift 11:07, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

No worries. You're doing a better job than I could! Timeshift 11:18, 16 June 2007 (UTC)

Australian general election, 2007

Hi anon, why did you remove the 8-10 Dec 2006 figures? (please reply here) Thanks, Alec 09:25, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Hello. I am not Anon. I removed the Dec 2006 line as the table was growing too big. However, now that it has been moved up the page, I guess it makes sense to put it back - as I see you have done. Cheers. Steve

Hi Steve, Sorry for calling you anon, 60.240.185.27 just doesn't flow off the tongue and I didn't know you were Steve :) Thanks for letting me know why you removed the Dec figures, I agree with you that the table was getting a bit big and this is an issue that we will really need to deal with over the coming months, however if you were to remove one I would suggest removing the oldest (10-12 November) first before removing those polls which have come more recently. Thanks, Alec 03:36, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

LGA table

thanks, I just hope our articles were correct, as thats what I counted them from with a word processor - dont have time to check them all! --Astrokey44 11:13, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

Royal anthem

Alec, my comments below were removed from Skring's talk page...

Alec, it was not a 'compromise'(ie, committee-negotiated middle ground that's not really satisfying), rather the most appropriate way. Well done. Such collaboration and thining of superior solutions, instead of combat and poor faith attrition wars is what we need. Funny how it is 'edit warring' when you weren't the one blindly reverting and accusing all opposing as poltically biased. 'Wrong version' indeed. Merbabu 01:36, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

--Merbabu 01:41, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

You're welcome. -- JackofOz 08:54, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Vandal template

Hi - to be honest i'm not sure, but I think it needs one... Timeshift 10:22, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Responding here rather than on the Talk:Australia page

I'll accept your explanation and apologise for any offence caused. However, in my defence, it has been my experience that when people remove or deface symbols they are generally making a statement of some kind. It seems I was mistaken in this case.

However, I'm likewise getting a bit annoyed at being the target of what feels like a schoolyard gang attack, where everyone is having a go at me when I am merely sticking to my guns. In particular, I feel that your repeated warnings and threats here and here are quite unacceptable. Any editor is at perfect liberty to remove comments made by others from their own talk pages. This is stated in the very guideline you referenced: On your own user talk page, you may remove comments from others, although archiving is generally preferred. The text of another user's comment, however, may never be directly edited to misrepresent the person or change the meaning of the comment.

Now, how am I supposed to feel towards you when you post stuff like that?

Perhaps how you feel at being the target of a misdirected blast.

Perhaps both of us should slow down in the heat of the moment.--Pete 01:26, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Neutrality re Socialist Alliance (Australia)

I'm sorry, how was my update of the NSW election results in breach of the guidelines on neutrality?

Hi 60.242.186.153, on the 25th May you wrote: "The Socialist Alliance believes that the Greens continue to dominate the left vote, but that what is needed is a genuine left-wing, socialist, party to represent and assist the Australian working class." This is not encyclopaedic in that it expresses an unreferenced opinion which is presumed to be your own, however even if it was referenced to an official source (their website or a media release from Socialist Alliance) it would still not be considered neutral language, as it expresses an opinion about current circumstances and not facts about current circumstances. Thanks, Alec 00:13, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi 60.242.186.153, your addition of "In the 2007 NSW election, the Socialist Alliance received 0.4% of the primary (15,142 votes), almost triple what they received in 2003." still remains in the article, what I removed was "The Socialist Alliance believes that the Greens continue to dominate the left vote, but that what is needed is a genuine left-wing, socialist, party to represent and assist the Australian working class." this text was not added by yourself just moved, I removed that statement as it was unreferenced opinion. Thanks, Alec 11:47, 3 June 2007 (UTC)

Thanks :)

Someone was observant :) Thanks for the kind words. Orderinchaos 11:58, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Comment

Looks fair to me, although two of them may well have independent notability (ALSF and SU). In all balance, I generally believe that these sort of articles encourage a modified, more grown-up form of schoolcruft and generate far more conflict than they're worth. Orderinchaos 12:49, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Emphasis on "too many" :) Orderinchaos 12:55, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you

Thank you gentlemen (Alec)- just home from watching Bell Shakespeare Company's Macbeth at the theatre - and very pleasantly surprised by your kindness ••• And yes there will be plenty more (allegedly the second 10,000 are easier than the first).--VS 12:54, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

heheh - you might like to see my cheeky appraisal of vs's visit to a play - and my comment re your batch (sic) - I think from the point of WP:V and WP:N you are probably on track - as my random search through some of them would suggest one would be hard pressed to provide the required items from the traditional information sources that I would go for - but, as in yeahbut, or perhaps nobut, I would say if there were 20 I would bet that 3 or 4 could possibly pull a bloodied metaphorical source from some obscure well of metaphorical drowned student pollies who wave a third party source at you - so put the flack jacket on, change address for a while, get a silent number, and sign up in the bollywood project for south africa and sit low - in other words - duck! :) heheheh SatuSuro 13:30, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

followup not available in goldfishbowl[REDACTED] - gmailed SatuSuro 13:49, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Deletion of student factions

Alec, why isn't ALSF also proposed for deletion. need to be consistent here. it also seems to be a non-neutral self promotional article. 210.56.68.77 04:03, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi 210.56.68.77, before embarking on this I consulted first with a more experienced editor (this is the first time I have flagged articles for deletion) while the other user agreed with my case, he did say that arguments could possibly be made for the independent notability of the ALSF and Student Unity.

While I agree with you that those two factions are not really any more notable than all the other factions, I have held off on flagging them until I see what happens with the more clear cut cases. If the other faction articles are moved from[REDACTED] than I will definitely flag those two as well.

I hope that answers your question, please feel free to flag those two articles for deletion yourself if you feel strongly that they should be considered at the same time as the others. Cheers, Alec 04:24, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

PS. that article is currently locked from editing so I could not flag it currently anyway. A minor point. Alec 04:53, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Indigenous Australians is the new ACOTF

Hi. You voted for Indigenous Australians which has been selected as the new Australian collaboration. Please help to improve it in any way you can. Thanks. --Scott Davis 15:49, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Student factions

Hi Rebecca, could you please provide a reason for your removals of the prods, either on the individual talk pages or on my talk page. Thanks, Alec 09:14, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Many of these groups have a long and interesting history, and have at times had some significant effects on national and state education policies and the management of campuses around Australia. You've rather dismissively tagged them all for deletion without really providing any justification at all; I, accordingly, untagged them. Rebecca 09:18, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Hi Rebecca, I agree that Student factions in NUS and in student politics generally are interesting, have a rich history and has had an influence on Australia as a nation, however Australian literature has not reached a point where student factions have been the subject matter of any major neutral study or even analysis, so the resulting 'articles' are almost completely original research and do not qualify under notability and verifiability policies. I flagged this issue some time ago on wikiproject Australian politics (and the Australian Liberal Students' Federation talk page) and it has not been addressed and that's why I flagged them for deletion from wikipedia, unless you can demonstrate that the student factions are notable I will be taking this issue forward. PS. I really have nothing against student factions, but these articles seem to be mostly written by people who are involved in student politics which also raises issues. Cheers, Alec 09:32, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

No Misplaced Pages policy requires that subjects of articles "be the subject of any major neutral study or even analysis"; were this the case, we'd have to delete a hell of a lot of articles that no one is presently arguing to delete. There is sourcing for much of these articles; a search of newspaper archives turns up quite a range of mainstream media articles. These include articles from most years about changes in relation to the factional makeup of NUS in the wake of each national conference, coverage of major developments, such as the factional mess that resulted in the election of Mathew Chuk last year, as well as a number of articles about where factions have engaged with government on their own behalf on matters of policy. They're not written "by people who are involved in student politics" either; I trust student politicians about as far as I can throw them, but these articles are a useful, notable, historical reference. Rebecca 10:13, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

That's fine if it is true, but I see no evidence of that, for example Grassroots Left, Independents (Australian NUS faction), Australian Labor Students, National Organisation of Labor Students, National Broad Left, Left Alliance (Australia), National Labor Students and Small + Regionals do not have one reference or external link, these articles are completely original research.

Non-Aligned Left has two dead link references which are not linked to specific information in the article and a third reference which (the actual reference itself) is about two paragraphs.

Love and Rage (Australia) has the official webpage and one reference which is not linked to any particular information in the article.

Please back up your assertion that "There is sourcing for much of these articles; a search of newspaper archives turns up quite a range of mainstream media articles".

By "subject of any major neutral study or even analysis" I'm talking about anything that would qualify as a reference under[REDACTED] policy. Cheers, Alec 11:39, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Many, if not most, articles on Misplaced Pages still lack references. Looking for a references section and discovering that there is not one is a particularly useless way of determining if references actually exist. As I said, a search of newspaper databases (I used Factiva, but there are others), turns up quite a range of results for these organisations, generally fitting into three broad groups, as I described above.

I'm currently in the middle of law exams, so I simply do not have the time to go through and reference these myself. You're entirely welcome to do so if you wish, however, and I've given you a good indication of where to start if you should choose to do so. Rebecca 12:17, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

OK I'll take your word for it in good faith. Thanks for the clarification. Alec 12:41, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Notification of Misplaced Pages vandalism

You left a notification of Misplaced Pages vandalism at the Talk page for our school's IP address right here. You mention that this will be our 'last warning'. Can I please point out that, if you read our Talk page carefully, you will find that we are taking a proactive stance to educate our students against Misplaced Pages vandalism and when and editor takes the trouble to email me as requested, we will act! Most editors dealing with such vandalism add the rider that if the IP address is from a shared institutional context, the proposed ban would not be applied as it would be unfair to the bulk of our responsible users. I welcome your direct contact with me on this subject at ishel(at)rehoboth.wa.edu.au - thank you! -- 203.59.48.102 02:32, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

My apologies for not reading the talk page before posting. I'm not an admin and therefore don't have the authority to ban users anyway, only to warn. Cheers, Alec 04:56, 13 June 2007 (UTC)

One Nation

Oops, reworded :-) Timeshift 08:50, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Your message left at User talk:121.209.161.223

User talk:121.209.161.223 is the discussion page for a numerical IP address, not a unique user. This IP address changes very frequently and is shared by several users. Your recent message to this page has been received by a user other than the one with whom you apparently intended to communicate. Please don't send messages to a specific Misplaced Pages user, or concerning the edits of a specific user, to this page as there is a very real chance that they will be received by the wrong person, causing embarrassment and confusion for you and for them.

Palm

Ack, see we lost a few photos, and the absentee uploader doesn't have email. --Steve _(Stephen) 06:04, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

2007 election pix

better or worse? Timeshift 07:52, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Howard I agree with you on, however I found Rudd's previous image to be horrid and thought it needed updating. It's hard to get a good snap of Rudd isn't it? (coalition, meh, it's just the ALP page anyway.) Timeshift 12:12, 23 June 2007 (UTC)