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what is "rape rock"?

Is "rape rock" a real genre? Anyway, I doubt GG was actually into "rape rock" - he was just saying anything to get people to pay attention to him - any more than he was into "third-world poverty relief rock" (his song "kill the children eat the food" and live aid are the only entries in this genre I can think of) or anything else. I think "rape rock" should be removed. Scott1329m 17:18,basicaly 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Childhood

This was deleted: Childhood, "though GG himself never used this as an excuse for any of his own eccentricities" - there are actual quotes to this effect - GG has been asked about his childhood and said something to the effect that if he had not had a bizarre one, he might have been WORSE than he was. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Scott1329m (talk • contribs) 11:09, 13 January 2007 (UTC).

Rapist?

Is there any proof that GG Allin actually forced his genitals into someone else?

There is no proof of almost anything GG claims he did. He claims to have committed murder in Boston. His whole life is a string of outlandish lies meant to get attention. Someone tried to write a biography once and gave up because there was nothing to write. It was all lies. Scott1329m 11:03, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

GG never claimed to have killed someone except in a song. It's idiotic to assume he was actually claiming to have committed murder. Do you think Ozzy Osbourne actually claims to have met the Iron Man?

The biography Joe Coughlin was working on didn't get published for a number of reasons, but it wasn't because GG led an uneventful life. It had more to do with people giving him shitty sources.

Whining that someone's life was "a bunch of lies" is better suited to a music forum. 149.152.216.154 16:29, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

the cougjin book has been published.

Scott Ian

Actually, If I'm correct Ian said the show he saw was at CBGB's. (I just watched the segment about Allin of VH1)

Page update

i added some additional information to the childhood section and early years

Halosun

NPOV?

This article needs a serious POV cleanup. Large parts of it read with an admaration for GG Allin and his fans that goes way over the top.

• The most genuine audiences often attended Allin's performances
• It has been well attested that Allin possessed super-human essence

I mean comeone! I don't really know enough about the subject matter to clean this up. But I'll have a look for the proper fourm to request it. Dalf | Talk 20:16, 25 August 2005 (UTC)

An anon user removed the cleaup tag I inserted- I've put it back again. quercus robur 22:52, 30 August 2005 (UTC)

this article is missing tons of stuff about GG allin and contains too much fanboyism.

Stuff missing: - GGs insane funeral - His homemade tattoo work - The multitude of other bands he fronted (Texas Nazis, acoustic work.. ) - John Wayne Gacey & Allin - how he influenced shockrock in bands such as Extreme Elvis ect. - tons of other stuff

I think this is not true: "His mothers name was 'Kebabjarrumies'". "Kebab" is Turkish meat food, "jarru" is (car's)break in finnish, "mies" is man in finnish. I didn't correct it because I don't know anything about Allin.

This article is unacceptable. It should be entirely rewritten. This is an encyclopedia article, not an obituary. "I believe GG was even a decent student, and even participated in the highschool band, playing percusion if memory serves correct"? That's embarassing.

The article has a lot of problems. Worst of all is this first person discussion kind of tone it has. Everyking 11:45, 16 October 2005 (UTC)

"Fanboyism?" I don't think that's the main reason why this article contains/contained lines like It has been well attested that Allin possessed super-human essence, because the combination off a G.G. Allin fan and a person who cares about Misplaced Pages is extremely rare. The main reason I think is that Allin was just such a horrible rocklegend, such a disgusting man, such a terrible person, you automatically feel sorry for him.

I do agree that this article is to positive on the whole and is incomplete. It certainly shouldn't be a featured article candidate. That said, complaining is always easy. I must admit that I won't gonna work on this article. Not only because I don't have the time for finding information about him. I'm a lazy sod, and my English is limited (so forgive me for any mistakes I've made). Some links that give a better image of G.G. then this article does:

* (interview with G.G. (may be fake, but it IS funny))

* (about his funeral)

* (Allin (GG) vs. Good Charlote (GC))

18:56, 22 December 2005

Cleaning, and NPOV

I think the article is looking better... I'm new so what do I know, but I'd like some thoughts.

I tried to organize it as much as possible, which I think helped. Plus I deleted some unnecessary word-y-ness, and added some more info. --MadDax 03:46, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

Most of the grammatical errors on this page have been fixed.

John - 19 October 2005

About the NPOV and other contributors to this article

I agree that there needs to be a truer journalistic approach taken with this article. Including the removal of subjective commentary. What also needs to be avoided are statements that are trivial in nature - like his father digging burial plots, or that GG went to school one day dressed in women's clothing, or that some people considered GG a "poor man's iggy pop", etc. The father and women's clothing comments are unnecessary embellishments. This isn't an analytical biography, it is an article meant to isolate the most important points in order to paint a general portrait of the man from a neutral pov. The iggy comment is trivial and subjective too. You cannot include what someone or many people specifically thought of the man. For instance, I and many do not consider him a poor man's iggy, while other's do. Adding that comment in expresses a subjectivity. But leaving it out does not in itself express a subjective perception of the man.

Therefore, the way I handled the role of his father in his life was sufficiently informative without trivializing it. Writing it as "detiorating mental health" in explaining the mother's stance on his name change was within context. Likewise, Merle considering GG to have become like his father in time is trivial, subjective, opinionated.

The important quotes or references that should be used are those from GG himself - in explaining his art, his personality, his music, his philosophy.

For people who are not well-informed of G.G. Allin, it would be incorrect to NPOV some parts of the article that express not an 'admiration' as such for the artist, but seek to inform of the good as well as the bad. Admiration is an incorrect term. Every subject matter has its credit. This particular subject matter, an artist, therefore has a true side that does need to be touched on in discussing him. The true side being factual documented quotes and interviews in which GG explains why he thinks the way he thinks, why he does what he does, etc. To him, there was much logic and philosophy to his madness. He was an intelligent outspoken man with very strong beliefs which are all well documented in books, dvds, other websites. Therefore, this[REDACTED] article CAN and SHOULD touch on these things, without referencing every statement, because the information that supports it is readily available in the external links already provided. One merely has to surf. Still, people shouldn't make up stories. I know I don't. I am well-read on GG and whatever I have written comes from factual readily available interviews/dvds, and comes from a natural tendency to be as objective as possible about anything.

I agree that fanboyism needs to be deleted. But so too does the ant-GG sentiments. You cannot have a truly neutral article if you only lambast the man, or paint him in a poor picture, no matter what your personal low opinion of the man/artist may be.

The most recent changes made to this article compared before my newest ones have been a great improvement. Excellent work to those responsible. However, can others please try to not unneccessary embellisments or trivialized or subjective comments for the sake of it. Before editing anything, ask yourself first if it holds up to what I have talked about here.

G.g. 06:00, 19 October 2005 (UTC)

Glad to see more input on this,... I must say though, I'm against putting anything about "super human strength" in the article. It just seems a bit too vaguely propaganda to me. Not that I'm trying to put you down for including it, I just think it should be removed myself,... although I wont delete it unless we've discussed it first, so thats all I gotta say. MadDax 15:02, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Re certain comments

Thanks for your input MadDax. It's greatly appreciated.

First re-read my comment, i edited it better.

Secondly, about the superhuman comment. I have read it in books, heard it discussed in dvds and interviews on CD, GG and his bandmates and Merle talking about how many times GG had been shot, stabbed, poisoned, self-mutilated, as well as ingesting so much hard drugs, and yet he only grew fatter not skinnier (heroin), how his body heals so quickly, that doctors were astounded that he hadnt died many times over, that he could take so much punishment, etc. It's there to be found. Literal quote "super-human essence" not strength, but essence. As in, something inside him. I have many pictures of GG with huge welts and cuts on his face, yet I have pictures of GG months later or just later in life with absolutely no scarring on his face, or very minimal. A keen observer would notice this when reading the "super-human" comments.

Your comments are most welcome, about the super-human or any other thing you are iffy about, and i'm sure a compromize can be reached that pleases all.

Btw, why did you remove the pdf links? They are there to support the statement he made to the clinical psychologist and offer an interesting psychoanalysis.

G.g. 15:32, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

I know it seemed like GG had super human essence, but with all relative fairness, that kinda a bit over the top to me. It seemed like he was larger than life, hell thats what attracted people to him, and thats what you, and what everyone saying what your saying is picking up on, but quite simply, he was very much ordinarily human. His ability to with stand massive amounts of drugs is actually quite common among Rock Stars of his era. Also, GG healed faster cause he was always cuting himself up, so when your body is used to healing regularly it gets a little bit quicker. I mean GG did have his long hospital stays too you know?

Anyhow, I just think it should be removed in the interest of keeping this article from embellishing truth. What do you think?

Also, I removed the link only cause it was a broken link,... no image. Sorry if its just me, but I thought it should've been done. MadDax 16:07, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

about your comments and your recent edit

In trying to appease you about the super-human, i fixed the comment, made it reasonable. My point with this comment is to show that he could amazingly handle such extreme punishment, which is in context with the truth.

In keeping with non-trivial comments, I removed some comments you added to your last edit. Same reasons - trivial, not overly important. There was a couple more which I didn't edit out, in trying to not look like a Nazi here. Your contributions are welcome. But again, trivial information is not important. No need to add things for the sake of it. I feel this article at my last edit fulfills enough truthful key information about the whole subject that this article should be left alone for a while now. Any more non-essential commentary and information should be avoided. There is clearly enough subject matter now about the man and done to a satisfying degree of neutrality that it's better left now.

As for the "broken" links, they are not broken, they are not images as such, they are pdf files. Readable documents and transcripts that contribute/back-up the references to Ann Arbor and the psychologist's report. Someone specifically requested that there should be links backing up these statements, so I have provided them. If someone wants to read them, all they have to do is click the link and it will download the pdf file to their computer for them to read.

I don't understand why you'd remove important quotable references that are in context, yet prefer to add in more trivial commentary about a magazine advertisment about a particular insignificant album that didnt get released. This is what I am stressing that all editors should consider before going around removing key attestable non-trivial information while adding superfluous neither-here-nor-there 'fun-facts'.

I am not trying to be a Nazi, I think the ones who created the new look of this page, breaking it up into categories and filling it with a whole heap of factual information did an awesome job. The recent edit I did is house-keeping. Allow the article to exist now, not constantly chopping and changing with little disputes between people on their individual contributions. Unless someone is adding more links to quotes and documents, then there's nothing more to say about GG Allin that isn't already said now. I have avoided propoganda, and am not a fanboy. I am trying to be neutral but fair. Further contributions are most welcome of course, as long as it's not just an attempt to fill the page with more non-key 'fun-facts' and gossip.

Let's try to keep this article at its current word-count. Please?

G.g. 17:07, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, yes it certainly is at its cusp of information. I agree, this needs very little editing in the future, as far as facts are concerned.

His ability to handle large amounts of intoxicants is mentionable, and as is now, I have no direct complaints, although the language makes me chuckle a bit. Not an issue though.

Also, as for the pages layout, and major info over haul, thanks for the compliments. It took A LONG TIME! haha, but well worth the effort.

And, dont worry about looking like a "nazi" as long as your edits are in keeping with the articles best interest. What ever I added you are probably right to delete, as I'm not sure what exactly your talking about here, so I'll take your word for it.

I mentioned that "magizine article" only because it is the only legitimate source of that record ever being put out on Enigma, other than GG's statements as I'm nearly 100% certain Enigma denied the relationship afterwards.

Hope that helps, I'm glad we discussed this

MadDax 17:16, 20 October 2005 (UTC)

Discrepencies

Based on the previous comments, it sounds like the article has been cleaned up a lot. It looks goood now.

There's just a few points I'd like to discuss, though. I looked at the attached pdf documents and I think some of the info is misrepresented in the article. For example, the article says, "confessing even that a lot of his self-mutilation was due to his compassion for the suffering of the world." The attached document says, he enjoys self-mutilation because, "A lot of people suffer in the world and this way I do it to myself and when I leave the stage I don't have to suffer anymore." This indicates that he doesn't do it for other people at all, but to save himself from having to suffer the way other people do. I'd hardly consider that "compassion."

I also didn't see anything that indicated he was "largely intelligent." I understand that it should be stated that he was mentally capable, but the phrase "largely intelligent" suggests that he has above average intelligence, and I'm not so sure that's the case.

I also think the way the rape case is handled has been sugar coated. The article says he served a sentence from 1989-1991, but it doesn't say what for. And calling it a supposed rape and torture suggests that he didn't serve any time for it. After reading the documents, it sounds like there were discrepencies in the victim's story and that Allin claimed that the woman consented to it. However, I think it can be shown that he claimed that he was innocent, but that he still served time. (And under two years for a felony isn't a particularly long sentence. I know it's longer than his others, but it's not especially long.)

BTChicago 16:29, 21 December 2005 (UTC)

Human Rights Watch?

Uh, what happened to this page? The entire article on GG Allin is missing, and in its place there's some spiel about international human rights?

Wrong Kramer in recent edit.

Some anonymous but well-meaning soul changed part of the section relating to the Hated in the Nation cassette to claim that Wayne Kramer of the MC5 was the bassist on the "New York Superscum" sessions for that album. This is incorrect. Kramer does appear on the previously released track "Gimmie Some Head" on that album, but it's actually Mark Kramer of Shimmy Disc Records and Bongwater fame who is the actual bassist (and producer) on the tracks in question. Double-check those liner notes before you post, folks! --CJ Marsicano 02:26, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

okay so did this freak have mental problems?

i mean obviously this guy did, but really, DID HE? -Dragong4

Images

Hi. This is just a reminder that we cannot illustrate our articles with images conveniently found on the web. If we are going to use unfree content, someone needs to take responsibility for coming up with a full fair use rationale and make sure that it meets the Misplaced Pages:Fair use criteria. Images that are tagged {{Promotional}} without any evidence that this is true, or {{Non-free fair use in}} without a full argument as to why will evenutally be deleted by image cleanup procedures. Thanks for considering the above. Jkelly 18:53, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

errors

this statement is NOT true at all:

"Allin's final studio album Brutality And Bloodshed For All has remained in print since its posthumous September 1993 release on Kim Fowley's Alive Records imprint."

that record has been out of print for years. and will remain that way, until someone else buys the rights to it. Patrick from Alive/Bomp Records is selling the rights to this album. And has said he will NOT press anymore copies. Contact him personally to back this up.

Gene Perfect, former bass guitar player from The Texas Nazis, writes: RE: The Texas Nazis -- check out this link: http://www.geocities.com/ekx001/BL/GGTNBIO.html

Bisexuality

With regard to Allin's supposed bisexuality, two pieces of evidence were offered:

GG's shown getting head from a male . Also, on the song Caroline and Sue on Freaks, Faggots, Drunks & Junkies, he talks of having sex w/ a woman and tranny

I hesitate to label Allin's sexuality at all, but I'm skepitical that any of this makes him bisexual (which is a problematic Misplaced Pages category altogether). Song lyrics are not great evidence; should we also put Allin in the category Pedophiles based on the lyrics of Young Little Meat? Also, where in Hated is this scene of Allin having oral sex with a male fan? And even though I'm sure this scene is in there, though I don't ever remember seeing it, does its existence make him bisexual?--Birdmessenger 13:19, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

On the back cover of the Hated DVD it shows a male fan with his face inbetween GG's legs, and later on in the documentray, it shows a still picture of GG Allin receiving head from an obvious male while one of them flips off the camera (the male I believe). Plus, there are countless lyrical referrences to homosexuality. For instance, Caroline and Sue, another song on Hated in the Nation (forget the name, maybe Hard Candy Cock) where he says he likes to suck cock, a picture in Hated of him french kissing the male fan "Unk", plus the inside notes on Freaks, Faggots, Drunks and Junkies says he had sex with his brother. I think GG was very laid back when it came to sexuality (and a lot of other things). Either way you look at it, he did have sex with both males and females, making him a practicing bisexual. Gold Stur 22:48, 6 August 2006 (UTC)

If you check out this interview you will see a lot of quotable references that highlight GG's sexual experiences with other males, including his brother. This particular interview is actually a great reference tool for more in-depth information about GG from the man himself. His life as a child, his sexual exploits, his musical idols, his bisexual experiences, his first marriage, etc. G.g. 6:16, 8 August 2006.

Ok so what is going on with this then? Was info on his sexuality deleted and then never added back in or what? You know the category still says LGBT and bisexual artists. The only mention in the article remotely related is that he was known to be a rebel by showing up in school dressed in drag, which also appears to be unsourced. There are some quotes on that interview site, such as that he first had sex with his brother. Then on Merle Allin Jr.'s page it dismisses this completely. What do you suggest we do? Crumnut 21:08, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

GG seems "unsexual" - concerned with unsexual acts of a scatalogical nature, and uses sex only to shock. I think it is incorrect to classify him as bisexual. The only true sex he ever engaged in is self-stimulation (cf his own song "I Want To Fuck Myself" - and no one else!) There is even a quote somewhere - his brother or someone saying GG was wholly uninterested in sex qua sex. Just in masturbation and shocking others. I can't remember where I saw that. Saying GG was bi implies he had sexual experiences with both sexes - it's more proper to say he did not have normal sexual experiences at all with anyone. Scott1329m 22:22, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

There is a bootleg video called "outlaw scumfuc" that consists of a few live shows and band rehersals from early 1989. You will see a man giving GG head from the first gig on there. GG says "who wants to be the first girl of 1989 to suck GG Allins dick?" A girl wearing GG's leather jacket goes up on stage and starts blowing him. Then a guy goes up there after the girl stops. GG points to the guy and says his name and adds "I don't care if your a guy even". He then points to some people in the audience, says their names and then says "I sucked that guys dick and his too". After the male is finished giving him head (there's no ambiguity, the camera zooms in and we can very much see that the guy is actually performing oral on GG), GG says "he beat the girl, she's going to have to come back". So GG was definitely bisexual. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.161.91.150 (talk) 22:27, 28 February 2007 (UTC).

Liz Mankowski

Should there be something about his last lady friend, an underage girl he met when he went on Jerry Springer? There should be some more info on Liz Mankowski.

• Maybe, maybe not. I think it's trivial, but no real reason why it shouldn't be included. The more info the better, as long as it's accurate and has a source. The topic of Liz Mankowski probably only needs a sentence of mentioning....so, go ahead and write something in with a source. G.g. 10:42, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

Non-existent photo of the casket

After "though the small picture in GG's left hand at his funeral may be of Nicoann", there was a reference that read "— see photo of GG's casket at the bottom of the page", I removed it since I couldn't actually find such a photo on the page.

I fixed the broken link, twice. There now. -G.g. (talk) January 4th, 15:24 (UTC)

plagiarism

I can't improve this page, but it should probably be noted that a lot of it is plagiarized from AMG:

http://www.allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:fd1gtq0ztu48~T1

P4k 01:02, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

• A lot of websites reference Misplaced Pages itself. So if you find a site with a biography on someone, chances are it's going to be THE Misplaced Pages page itself being referenced. It's not Misplaced Pages or its users plagiarizing another site's biography. G.g. 01.49, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

No offense, but did you click on the link? The AMG entry doesn't "reference" this article, it shares huge blocks of text with it. All Music Guide isn't some kid's fansite, it seems more likely to me that Misplaced Pages is plagiarizing it than the other way around. P4k 08:10, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

• I take it back! There was only one plagiarized sentence, which I deleted. Either I was wrong originally or someone else fixed the problem. Srry.

P4k 08:27, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Birth name

Was his birth name really 'Jesus Christ Allin'? Was his birth name not Kevin Michael Allin, with Jesus Christ Allin as something he was also known as? I know nothing about the artist, it just seems unlikely. J Milburn 22:01, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

Truth is stranger than fiction - that was his birth name. Scott1329m 11:11, 23 April 2007 (UTC)

Christian Music Recorded By Allin

My wife has recently told me that G.G. recorder an album of Christian Folk/Country music (Link titleAlt-Country?) under the name The Holy Mary 4. She said their one album was from '82, called "His Light Shines on" is this true? Should we put this in? -T. Sanchez

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