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Revision as of 23:26, 23 August 2007 editYksin (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users6,180 edits Twinkie defense← Previous edit Revision as of 23:58, 23 August 2007 edit undoBenjiboi (talk | contribs)50,496 edits []: replyNext edit →
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Hey Benjiboi, I want to let you know that ] has written to me on my talk page about the ] article & the content issues there. I've read through the sources & have concerns, though unlike 192.250.34.161 I'm all for ], particularly inasmuch as you & I have had good if passing acquaintance before. In any case, I've decided to go ahead & start up an ], which I'm in the process of preparing. My object is to be as neutral as possible in stating the main issues of the RfC; everyone can speak for themselves after that. I have a lot of concerns about civility issues; I hope that 192.250.34.161 & other parties can remain civil in the RfC. --] 23:26, 23 August 2007 (UTC) Hey Benjiboi, I want to let you know that ] has written to me on my talk page about the ] article & the content issues there. I've read through the sources & have concerns, though unlike 192.250.34.161 I'm all for ], particularly inasmuch as you & I have had good if passing acquaintance before. In any case, I've decided to go ahead & start up an ], which I'm in the process of preparing. My object is to be as neutral as possible in stating the main issues of the RfC; everyone can speak for themselves after that. I have a lot of concerns about civility issues; I hope that 192.250.34.161 & other parties can remain civil in the RfC. --] 23:26, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
:Personally I'd like to first simply move the content that is more appropriate to other articles although from ]'s posts that would seem all of it. Like many conflicts I think there is a good solution somewhere in the middle and ]'s mass deletions seem to fly in the face of consensus building or playing nice in the sandbox. As for the Solomon sources it seems like either the ones that were there have been removed or they were switched somewhere in an edit, in either case I'm not in the mood to trek to the library and dig through court transcripts just to reinsert a ref. I'm simply not into conflict and ]'s actions make me pause as to the value of my work here. ] 23:58, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Revision as of 23:58, 23 August 2007

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Picture of the day Garlic Garlic (Allium sativum) is a species of bulbous flowering plants in the genus Allium. Its close relatives include the onion, shallot, leek, chives, Welsh onion, and Chinese onion. It is native to Central Asia, South Asia, and northeastern Iran. It has long been used as a seasoning and culinary ingredient worldwide, with a history of several thousand years of human consumption and use, including use in traditional medicine. It was known to ancient Egyptians and other ancient cultures for which its consumption has had a significant culinary cultural impact, especially across the Mediterranean region and across parts of Asia. It is produced globally, but the largest producer is China, which produced 73% of the world's supply of garlic in 2021. This photograph shows a bulb and cloves of garlic, and was focus-stacked from 37 individual images.Photograph credit: Ivar Leidus ArchiveMore featured pictures...

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Alonzo W. Slayback, commander of the regimentAlonzo W. Slayback, commander of the regiment

Slayback's Missouri Cavalry Regiment was a cavalry regiment of the Confederate States Army during the American Civil War. Formed as Slayback's Missouri Cavalry Battalion, the unit consisted of men recruited in Missouri by Lieutenant Colonel Alonzo W. Slayback (pictured) during Price's Raid in 1864. The battalion's first action was at the Battle of Pilot Knob in September; it later participated in actions at Sedalia, Lexington, and the Little Blue River. In October, the unit was used to find an alternate river crossing during the Battle of the Big Blue River and saw action at the battles of Westport, Marmiton River, and Second Newtonia. Around February 1865, the battalion reached regimental strength after more recruits joined. On June 2, 1865, the Confederate Trans-Mississippi Department surrendered. The men of the regiment were located at different points in Louisiana and Arkansas when they were paroled, leading the historian James McGhee to believe that the regiment had disbanded before the surrender. (Full article...)

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Formatting References

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Note - access date format 2007-06-16

  1. Vos, Sarah (10 June 2007, page 13). "Barker says O'Donnell could replace him". Associated Press. Retrieved 2007-06-16. {{cite web}}: Check date values in: |date= (help); Cite has empty unknown parameter: |coauthors= (help)

Fair use rationale for Image:Sisters.jpg

Image was replaced by someone else so I've reloaded original image with rationale and fixed tagging on all related articles. (adding sig file for archiving purposes) Benjiboi 16:21, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Living Memory LGBT History Timeline from Trans perspective

A possible resource. Transgender Aging Network has launched a project - Living Memory LGBT History Timeline to assist with aging LGBT folks "It is impossible to tell without asking someone precisely which public events shaped their lives, but knowing what was likely reported in newspapers and discussed at dinner parties during a person’s lifetime may help you understand how their worldview was shaped. To offer insight into the concerns, lifestyles, and belief sets of lesbian, gay, bisexual, and transgender (LGBT) people who are now 50 and older, the Transgender Aging Network has constructed the following timeline showing how old they would have been when there were critical events or changes in the lives of LGBT people." Starting with the 1920s the events list can be cross-referenced with current GLBT timelines and used as a possible stepping stone to aid Trans projects and awareness. The PDF version is here Html via Google is here

Feminists for Life potential material

http://www.aboutabortions.com/ quotes to be sourced and used for Feminists for Life article


Jane Roberts, the wife of John Roberts, was a volunteer member of Feminists for Life's board of directors from 1995 to 1999. She has provided legal assistance to the pro-life group and been recognized as a contributor who donated from $1,000 to $2,500. She has written for a newsletter for a pro-life group called 's newsletter, including an article about adoption. Roberts and her husband have adopted two children. Source: Richard A. Serrano, Los Angeles Times Jul 21, 2005


Recognizing that 20 percent of all abortions are performed on college students, Foster launched Feminists for Life's College Outreach Program to provide practical resources for pregnant and parenting students and keeps up a grueling schedule traveling to campuses, where she's remarkably successful in changing students' minds about abortion. Planned Parenthood called Feminists for Life's "Question Abortion" campaign "the newest and most challenging concept in anti-choice student organizing."

Foster sharply criticizes colleges for providing abortions but no other services for pregnant students. "What kind of a choice is that?" she asks. She challenges abortion supporters and pro-lifers to work together to provide real alternatives to women facing crisis pregnancies.

Patricia Heaton, who played Raymond's wife on the hit series Everybody Loves Raymond, is a Feminists for Life celebrity spokesman who loves Foster. She explains that "opponents think group is strong and powerful, because Serrin is strong and powerful. She's the embodiment of what we feel about women. To think that the only thing a woman can do with a child is abort is demeaning to women and undermines everything that the women's movement has been working on since the suffragettes."

Under the banner "Women Deserve Better," Heaton appears in one of Feminists for Life's print ad campaigns that reads: "Every 38 seconds in America a woman lays her body down, feeling forced to choose abortion out of a lack of practical resources and emotional support. Abortion is a reflection that society has failed women. There is a better way."

January 23, 2006, 8:42 a.m. Pro-Life Women Fight for Feminism Today’s feminists are far from yesterdays.


http://www.patriciaheatononline.com/pharticles2004/goodbyegirl_10.html January 2004

'It's Not About Me'

By Dan Ewald | Christian Reader Magazine

"She is brazen in her decision to be pro-life in an unabashedly pro-choice town. Patricia is the honorary chairperson of Feminists for Life, a non-religious group that attempts to bring feminism back to its original meaning, which, she says, was about making the world a place where women and children can feel safe and protected and become whom they are to the fullest extent. Since most of her peers connect pro-lifers to a brand of Christian extremism, Patricia appreciates Feminists for Life's method." In my community in Hollywood, FFL is a way to approach the question of feminism and pro-life thinking in a way that people can hear it and don't have a preconceived idea."


criticism Abortion Foes See Validation for New Tactic By ROBIN TONER Published: May 22, 2007

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/22/washington/22abortion.html?ex=1337486400&en=716417696026b473&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss


http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2006/01/20/BAGDSGQD1C1.DTL SAN FRANCISCO Abortion debate rivals refine their images On eve of rallies, opponents soften profile, while pro-choice side battles complacency

Joe Garofoli, Chronicle Staff Writer

Friday, January 20, 2006


Stereotyping Pro-Lifers Occasional by Nat Hentoff The Washington Post, May 16, 1992 http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:OANPtpvATewJ:www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~rauch/nvp/media/hentoff_stereotype.html+%22feminists+for+life%22+critics+-blog&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=7&gl=us


Susan B. Anthony's Abortion Position Spurs Scuffle Run Date: 10/06/06 By Allison Stevens Washington Bureau Chief

Susan B. Anthony died 100 years ago, but her position on abortion--what she did and didn't write, say or believe--is causing a live-action political tussle among historians, journalists and political activists. http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm?aid=2915


Bray vs. Alexandria Women's Health Clinic. http://www.fnsa.org/v1n1/bray.html


http://www-tech.mit.edu/V109/N17/prlife.17n.html Volume 109 >> Issue 17 : Tuesday, April 11, 1989

MIT Pro-Lifers rally on eve of march

By Prabhat Mehta


http://www.salon.com/mwt/broadsheet/2006/10/06/anthony/

Broadsheet Susan B. Anthony, against abortion?


http://www.talkinbroadway.com/rialto/past/2004/10_25_04.html Talkin' Broadway

An Interview with Margaret Colin by Beth Herstein


Silencing Lorraine Hansberry Bernadette Waterman Ward i. Jerome Beaty and J. Paul Hunter, The Norton Introduction to Literature, 7th ed. (New York and London: W.W. Norton & Company, 1998) p. 1832.

http://64.233.167.104/search?q=cache:TzTEbTVc0SEJ:www.uffl.org/vol10/ward10.pdf+%22feminists+for+life%22+critics+-blog&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=50&gl=us


subject to debate | posted August 11, 2005 (August 29, 2005 issue) Feminists for (Fetal) Life

Katha Pollitt http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050829/pollitt


Apologies Re: Twinkie defense

Sorry for the erroneous revert on Twinkie defense; I undid myself (sounds funny to say that)--Kubigula (talk) 04:28, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

I was wondering what was going on when I saw you were an admin. Thanks for catching it. Benjiboi 04:29, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
One of the dangers of using anti-vandalism scripts - it makes it that much easier to foul up :(. Great work on the article, by the way.--Kubigula (talk) 04:48, 11 August 2007 (UTC)
Lol! Thanks, I'm still cleaning up the language and dangling ideas and such. Benjiboi 04:50, 11 August 2007 (UTC)

Use of Twinkie image

I see you're the main contributer to this article, so I'm asking here rather than being bold (which can sometimes inadvertently turn into being a dick); Do you not think the image as it stands gives the article a rather frivolous look? As somebody who lived in San Francisco at the time of the assassinations, and participated in the White Night riots, I would think a picture of Dan White would be more appropriate. Just a suggestion.

I hear you but there is a picture of him on the other related articles. If you think about Twinkie defense you and I probably know why it's called that but the vast majority of the world (even most of the queer world) will have no clue about the connection. I gave it a lengthy caption labeling it the namesake and it's main purpose it to provide clarification. If it was called the Pepsi meltdown then we'd have a photo and caption of that. Benjiboi 11:11, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
On reflection, perhaps the image is appropriate after all. What could be more appropriate for a silly, frivolous defense technique than a silly, frivolous image. And your caption is certainly clear in its explanation of why the image is there. Are you planning on expanding it further? Both it and the White Night Riots are certainly worthy of expansion. Let me know if you need any help in searching out info or references. Jeffpw 11:20, 15 August 2007 (UTC)
Thanks, I needed the rest from it for a bit. I got fed up defending it being in the LGBT category first then an editor was removing "frivolous info that Milk's homosexuality was "irrelevant." Perhaps the article allowed it to appear so at the time but I was determined to source as much as appropriate to ensure Milk's being gay was understood to be a major motivating factor. This was a true culture war and Milk and Moscone died for it.
If you looking for some challenges...
1.White had on his hitlist a few others besides Milk and Moscone so it would be nice to include those
2.I've done little to the White Night Riots article - this was a major gay riot
3.Both incidents sparked SF-based LGBT groups to be formed
4.The retaliatory police raid on the Elephant Walk I don't believe is well documented (or at least not with easily accessed sources) so it would be nice to suss that out a bit and speak to an uneasy legacy of police actions against queers, etc.
I'd be happy to look for the names on the hit list. I'm on vacation right now, so have the time. As to the White Night riots, I have many links in my bookmarks already. Don't know why I never bothered to check out Wiki's coverage of it. I firmly agree that these incidents were important milestones in gay history, and not only because I was a participant. :) They really awakened the world to the continuing opression of gays, as well as setting Dianne Feinstein on her path to national power. I'm glad I stumbled upon the articles. I was sort of looking for a new Wiki challenge. Jeffpw 16:19, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

"Rant Nonsense" on Gay pride article

I don't appreciate being dismissed as having contributed "nonsense". The sentence made sense, that some of the LGBT crowd do not appreciate Gay Pride as they fear it does more damage than good for the gay cause, and the link I provided works fine, it is a download link to download an MP3, the only thing I screwed up on was the layout of the citation thing. But I'd appreciate this being put back in, as it has a gay comedian expressing a controversial view within the gay community. Hope you can sort it soon. TR 16:21, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

As I wrote in my edit summary "removing "rant" link as nonsense, prodded user for constructive edit instead."

"However many of the LGBT crowd also oppose Gay Pride, feeling it does more damage for the cause than good, as explained by gay comedian, 2 Gryphon."

This first part was wonky and needed clean-up as why the crowd thought it did more damage than good. The rambling rant was far from encyclopedic and I regret having to listen to most of the lengthy tirade. WP is not a soapbox. I suggest you get a concise quote that encapsulates the ideas 2 Gryphon presents or find a noteworthy critic who's able to say the same thing with far fewer words and some appreciation for clarity and brevity. Benjiboi 00:42, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Static pixel sizes (Drag queen article)

Hi

I noticed that you added static pixel sizes to all the images in the Drag queen article. I realise that you might not be aware of it, but in WP:XIMG#New syntax for images, it says: From m:MediaWiki 1.5 the default thumbnail width can be set in the preferences, so it is recommended not to specify "px", in order to respect the users' preferences (unless, for a special reason, a specific size is required regardless of preferences, or a size is specified outside the range of widths 120–300px that can be set in the preferences).

I don't believe that there is a special reason why the images in that article need to have static pixel sizes. I'd suggest that, if you feel that there is a special reason to set static pixel sizes in an article, you should probably discuss it on the article's talk page first. --AliceJMarkham 23:52, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

I don't believe most users (especially newer ones) are aware of setting image size preferences to images. I'm not terribly bothered if the images are larger or simply the smallest possible in this article. However, since the subject of the article is predominantly about appearances it would seem that visual information aids in understanding the subject to the average reader so I welcome any effort to find a way to increase the image sizes for this article. Benjiboi 00:02, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Given that I run a preference size of 300px (and would go larger if the option existed), your setting static sizes had the effect of reducing the image sizes for me. Actually, your comment has inspired me to look into asking a question about setting image sizes based on browser window width. Someone else was saying that they'd like to be able to set the images to a percentage of browser window width. Now I just have to figure out where to ask the questions. :) --AliceJMarkham 00:37, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Lol! Per your inspiration I eventually found the image size preference under files and quickly set mine to 300px as well. As for where to ask you might lean towards Misplaced Pages:Image use policy. Thank you in advance! Benjiboi 00:53, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Drag queen

Hey - I think this is a good discussion for the Talk page, and in the end should lead to some better citation in the article as to what is and is not a drag queen. A lot of people, including drag queens, don't believe that trannies qualify. Also, a customer who is paying for a drag queen is often not wanting to pay for a tranny. It's an issue for drag artists: if they go the full route, it makes them less a sell. Let's raise these arguments on the Talk page and flesh out the discussion more, and try to get some citation to social researchers on the issue. --David Shankbone 11:49, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Go for it! Benjiboi 11:50, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Sure, but it will have to wait until I have time --David Shankbone 12:03, 17 August 2007 (UTC)
Same here, no rush. Benjiboi 12:11, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Need help with vandalism from 81.145.240.106

I listed on Admin vandal noticeboard. Benjiboi 22:55, 19 August 2007 (UTC)

Homosexuality in women's sports

Reply on my page please. Check the 'what links here' and you'll see its barely anything save for 'wikipedia articles needed attention' and talk pages etc etc. The article is basicly orphaned. Cornell Rockey 02:53, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Articles for deletion/Homosexuality in women's sports

Reply to your comment on the AfD, and please reply on my talk page. I don't have the first clue how to fix it, and I doubt it can be fixed. Popular opinion says otherwise, so if it can be fixed, as I said, knock yourself out. Also, read WP:AGF before accusing me of abuse. Cornell Rockey 02:56, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

(reply posted on Cornell Rockey talk page)
Hi, The orphan tag is not appropriate as speaks to the wikilinks which are internal to WP. I've added over a dozen myself so I know that it's no longer an orphan. I wasn't accusing you of abusing the AfD process you were stating it. The AfD process is for hopeless articles which can't be improved through regular editing, many do abused the AfD process so please avoid doing it. Many articles do need improving but doing so by use of AfDing doesn't bring the inspired and enlightening editing that makes truly great WP articles, IMO. No one seems to disagree with you that the article is poorly written and needs work but it's not a hopeless or unencyclopedic article just one that needs work and can be greatly improved with regular editing. Benjiboi 13:21, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

Your query at WP:AIV

See at dispute resolution Raymond Arritt 16:55, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

On a related note, I have protected the page from editing until September 1. I will end it earlier if an agreement can be reached on the talkpage. The ikiroid (talk·desk·Advise me) 16:56, 22 August 2007 (UTC)
Thank you, I was just about to ask for protection, however this editor seems to surface every few days and reverts everything; they deleted 27 refs down to three (I think absolutely everything I did) as well as a further reading section which I find hard to believe they were readily familiar with. It's hard for me t o assume good faith in this instance. Benjiboi 16:59, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Twinkie defense

Hey Benjiboi, I want to let you know that User:192.250.34.161 has written to me on my talk page about the Twinkie defense article & the content issues there. I've read through the sources & have concerns, though unlike 192.250.34.161 I'm all for WP:AGF, particularly inasmuch as you & I have had good if passing acquaintance before. In any case, I've decided to go ahead & start up an article RfC, which I'm in the process of preparing. My object is to be as neutral as possible in stating the main issues of the RfC; everyone can speak for themselves after that. I have a lot of concerns about civility issues; I hope that 192.250.34.161 & other parties can remain civil in the RfC. --Yksin 23:26, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

Personally I'd like to first simply move the content that is more appropriate to other articles although from User:192.250.34.161's posts that would seem all of it. Like many conflicts I think there is a good solution somewhere in the middle and User:192.250.34.161's mass deletions seem to fly in the face of consensus building or playing nice in the sandbox. As for the Solomon sources it seems like either the ones that were there have been removed or they were switched somewhere in an edit, in either case I'm not in the mood to trek to the library and dig through court transcripts just to reinsert a ref. I'm simply not into conflict and User:192.250.34.161's actions make me pause as to the value of my work here. Benjiboi 23:58, 23 August 2007 (UTC)
  1. {{cite web |http://www.ranting-gryphon.com/Rants/2rant-gay_pride.mp3/ |title="2 the Ranting Gryphon's Gay Pride rant"
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