Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 06:10, 17 December 2007

Your recent edits

Welcome to Misplaced Pages, and thank you for your contributions. Unfortunately, your edits show a mis-understanding of WP:NPOV, and so they have been reverted. It is not a violation of NPOV to note that Randell Mills' work is generally considered pseudoscience - it is required by NPOV that that information be present. Similarly, it is required by NPOV to note that evaluators have accused Mills of plagiarism - regardless of Mills' response to the accusation. Please review and understand WP:NPOV before making any additional edits.

Mills used the material he quoted for purposes of scholarship and criticism, and he gave and cited the source, as anyone who can read can see for themselves in Mills’ book. The policy on material about living persons requires that the extreme and potentially libelous imputation of plagiarism made in the Hydrino theory article be removed, all the more so because the reference cited for the imputation didn’t even use so inflammatory a term as plagiarism. Please review and understand WP:Biographies_of_living_persons before making any additional edits.

Also, I must issue you a conditional warning: if you have previously edited Misplaced Pages under another account, please be aware of WP:SOCK. Editors are not permitted to use multiple accounts for the same types of edits. If you have not previously edited Misplaced Pages, but have been asked to make particular types of edits by someone who has, that is considered the same. If your edits are strictly of your own volition, I apologize for issuing this warning, but it is necessary due to past activity relating to Mills. Michaelbusch 19:37, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Please do not delete content from pages on Misplaced Pages without explaining the reason for the removal in the edit summary. Unexplained removal of content does not appear constructive, and your edit has been reverted. The justifications you have been giving do not apply. Thank you. Michaelbusch 20:59, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Please stop. If you continue to blank out or delete portions of page content, you will be blocked from editing. For the last time: NPOV requires mention of criticism. Michaelbusch 21:14, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

This is the last warning you will receive for your disruptive edits.
The next time you delete or blank page content from Misplaced Pages, you will be blocked from editing. Michaelbusch 21:28, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Not sure this isn't a content dispute.

You currently appear to be engaged in an edit war. Note that the three-revert rule prohibits making more than three reversions in a content dispute within a 24 hour period. Additionally, users who perform a large number of reversions in content disputes may be blocked for edit warring, even if they do not technically violate the three-revert rule. If you continue, you may be blocked from editing. Please do not repeatedly revert edits, but use the talk page to work towards wording and content that gains a consensus among editors. Dlohcierekim

In my opinion, Dlohcierekim has not understood your edits, which constitute disruptive deletion of legitimate criticism. You may see WP:ANI, but stop editing anyway. I place myself under an editing ban on the pages for the next twenty-four hours - you must do the same, or a 3RR block is indicated. Michaelbusch 21:55, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I have recused myself from the page, but ask that you again review WP:NPOV and understand that hostile opinions of Mills must be included in the article if they constitute notable criticism - which the plagiarism accusation does. You may consider this while you enjoy your 3RR block. Michaelbusch 22:07, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

December 2007

Who are you?

Are you the Tom Stolper who wrote a book about Mills? If so, I must remind you of Misplaced Pages's conflict-of-interest rules. Having written a book about the man may not exclude you from editing the article, but it definitely constitutes some form of conflict-of-interest - the book was, after all, rather partial to the man's claims. Michaelbusch (talk) 22:35, 5 December 2007 (UTC)

In fact, based on some interpretations of Misplaced Pages:No original research and Misplaced Pages:What Misplaced Pages is not, you are indeed prohibited from editing the article. That aside: Mills has been accused of plagiarism. The validity of those claims cannot be assessed without original research, so Misplaced Pages cannot take a position on them. Michaelbusch (talk) 18:05, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Interesting interpretations, Michael. You imply that the longer someone has studied a subject, and the more he knows about it, the less right he has to edit an article about the subject. I doubt that is Misplaced Pages policy. Yes, I am the Tom Stolper (Thomas E. Stolper) who wrote a book about Mills. So far, it’s still the only one. As to the false and potentially libelous imputation of plagiarism, anyone who can read can check it out. It’s just more time-consuming to refute injurious rumors than it is to start them or perpetuate them.— Preceding unsigned comment added by TStolper1W (talk • contribs)

Expertise is one thing. Having a conflict-of-interest is another. You have gone on record as a vocal proponent of Mills and his work, and might be considered to have a monetary interest in Mills being portrayed favorably. To avoid problems like this, WP:COI has been formulated. Re. the plagiarism accusations: again, it is not 'false and potentially libelous' to note that Mills has been accused of plagiarism - it would be a problem to state that as fact without citation. It is required by WP:NPOV. It is not trivial to check the accusation, because it deals with Mills' book as of the time of Haas' review, and Mills changes his book at his pleasure. So we'd have to get the version of the book Haas was working from, and read it. That constitutes original research, as I said. Michaelbusch (talk) 19:13, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

No, Michael, it's just fact-checking, and fact-checking that I did at the time that the version of Mills' book in question was the current version. Mills cited his source for the quoted material and critiqued the quoted material. Misplaced Pages policy requires that the false and potentially libelous imputation of plagiarism be removed, especially when the citation for that false imputation is to something as poor as a single paragraph of online material put up by a longtime opponent of Mills, an opponent who merely drew the allegation from someone else. Tom Stolper. TStolper1W (talk) 21:01, 8 December 2007 (UTC)

Please see Misplaced Pages:No_original_research#Citing_oneself and end your self-appointed crusade. You are very close to violating WP:3RR again, as well as breaking WP:NPOV. Michaelbusch (talk) 20:03, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Well, Michael, suppose you end your crusade against Mills, which I doubt that even your circle of friends would consider neutral. TStolper1W (talk) 15:58, 11 December 2007 (UTC)

Your contributions

Welcome!

Hello, TStolper1W, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Misplaced Pages
• Tutorial
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question and then place {{helpme}} before the question on your talk page. Again, welcome! Stifle (talk) 09:04, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Now, as you've been made aware above, you've jumped into Misplaced Pages and are editing some controversial topics. Please make sure that you adhere carefully to our neutral point of view policy. I would encourage you to edit in some non-pseudoscience area for the time being as your edits are currently attracting the wrong type of attention. If you would like further advice please contact me on my talk page, which you can access by clicking the word "talk" at the end of this line. Stifle (talk) 09:06, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

Bob Park and Randell Mills

Please stop your senseless POV claim that Bob Park is a 'long-term critic' of Randell Mills. Park is a professor of physics at the University of Maryland and high up in the administration of the American Physical Society. While he is also known for attacking any and all forms of pseudoscience, citing him as a 'long-term critic' greatly overstates the effort he put into debunking Mills and is an unacceptable POV slant because it implies that he acted as a critic rather than an impartial evaluator and debunker. The citation given is to a piece by Park where he was describing the evaluation of Mills' book by Aaron Barth, and is quoted in the controversy section of the article. I apologize for mis-typing one of my edit summaries, but that does not excuse your repeated reversions. Michaelbusch (talk) 00:23, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

Michael W. Busch, please stop your senseless POV suggestion that Robert L. Park is now or ever was an impartial evaluator of Randell Mills. Park has been attacking Mills and his work ever since 1991, as anyone who has read Park’s online column over the years or his attacks in the media would know. You can start with Park’s “What’s New” online column of April 26, 1991, then fast forward to his “What’s New” of May 9, 1997, and then do your homework in this matter, as I have. Mills is so far above Park in scientific ability and insight that Park couldn’t even see the gap, let alone its magnitude. Park stopped publishing peer-reviewed scientific articles after he became director of public affairs for the American Physical Society in 1982. Thomas E. Stolper. TStolper1W (talk) 20:42, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

You have just demonstrated a disconnection from reality that I have been warned about by two separate people in off-wiki message. Understand this: Mills is a pseudoscientist and either a fool or a con man - that is the neutral evaluation. He has long since lost any credibility he ever had in the scientific community. Park has his credentials in solid-state physics, his professorship, and his position with the American Physical Society. Incidentally: Park published ~20 peer-reviewed papers between 1982 and 1989, if you will consult his CV. Since he became a professor emeritus, he hasn't been doing much active research, but that is the curse of being an administrator. Instead, he has numerous editorial pieces, debunkings, and the book Voodoo Science. Being a debunker doesn't make him an enemy of Mills - it just means he has chosen to spend his retirement cleaning up after others. I am done discussing this. Michaelbusch (talk) 20:52, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Wow. If you consider the above evaluation of Mills to be either neutral or right, then we’re even further apart than I realized. That may help explain why you didn’t respond to my email of December 10, 2007, copy below:

Michael,

WIKIPEDIA guidelines recommend that the parties to a dispute try to resolve it themselves.

We seem to be awfully far apart in our opinion of Mills and his work.

Is there any possibility of a compromise or not?

Tom Stolper

Regarding Park’s CV, which you mentioned above and which I missed some years ago in Googling for his papers. It was easy to find today, from the entry in Misplaced Pages for Park. His CV does list him as an author on scientific publications, presumbably peer-reviewed, from 1982 to 1988 inclusive (as well as earlier years, which I already knew about). He was a bitter opponent of Mills later, though, and on into the new century. TStolper1W (talk) 22:38, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

Warning regarding self-promotional posts

Everyone is welcome to contribute constructively to the encyclopedia. However, please do not add promotional material to articles or talk pages. Advertising and using Misplaced Pages as a "soapbox" is strongly discouraged. You have been warned about WP:COI and other policies before. Michaelbusch (talk) 22:25, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

What advertising in Misplaced Pages, Michael, and what COI? TStolper1W (talk) 20:45, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Advertisement here, and if the above material is insufficient for you to understand that your conflict of interest is a problem, I don't know what would be. Michaelbusch (talk) 20:48, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Writing and making available a paperback book about the reception of Mills’ work isn’t a COI. The book is a credential for speaking about its subject; and the book is a reference for it, because it’s the first such book, and still the only one. TStolper1W (talk) 01:31, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

WP:AN/I notice

Hello TStolper1W. This message is being sent to inform you that there currently is a discussion at Misplaced Pages:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents regarding an issue that you may be involved with. You are free to comment at the discussion, but please remember to keep your comments within the bounds of the civility and "no personal attack" policies. Thank you. MastCell 21:50, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Do also be warned that MastCell's determination is that you are forbidden from editing the Randell Mills article. See the Admin Noticeboard. Any further edits to the article will be reason for another block. Michaelbusch (talk) 22:57, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

That’s an effective way of getting rid of a POV with which you and your allies don’t agree, Michael, and of letting others know that you and they have control of so visible an outlet as Misplaced Pages for your and their hostile POV in this matter. TStolper1W (talk) 01:34, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

Notice

Given your conflict of interest and difficulties editing this page within policy, I'm going to ask that you not edit the article Randell Mills directly. You may edit the article talk page and propose changes there, and seek WP:CONSENSUS for them. You may also solicit third opinions, outside comments, or assistance with unsourced or defamatory material via the usual channels. However, if you edit the page directly, you will be blocked. MastCell 06:10, 17 December 2007 (UTC)