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Revision as of 15:43, 22 January 2008 editX201 (talk | contribs)Extended confirmed users, File movers, Pending changes reviewers, Template editors119,797 edits ZX-Poly - AFD← Previous edit Revision as of 17:23, 22 January 2008 edit undoRobJ1981 (talk | contribs)32,546 edits →Development of Spore: commentNext edit →
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:::::I can see where you're coming from, but think to be considering deleting a well written and referenced article will ruffle some feathers. I think I would abstain from voting, only because I'm too torn between too detailed vs. we have bigger fish to fry.--] (]) 14:38, 16 January 2008 (UTC) :::::I can see where you're coming from, but think to be considering deleting a well written and referenced article will ruffle some feathers. I think I would abstain from voting, only because I'm too torn between too detailed vs. we have bigger fish to fry.--] (]) 14:38, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
::::::"I don't like it" is never a reason for deletion, and if there are reliable sources for it, we should not stand in the way, after all, the Development and Re-rating articles for Elder Scrolls Oblivion is top notch. ] (]) 03:56, 21 January 2008 (UTC) ::::::"I don't like it" is never a reason for deletion, and if there are reliable sources for it, we should not stand in the way, after all, the Development and Re-rating articles for Elder Scrolls Oblivion is top notch. ] (]) 03:56, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
:I never said I didn't like it. Just because some similar articles exist, doesn't mean every game should instantly have development articles. ] (]) 17:23, 22 January 2008 (UTC)


== List of Samurai Shodown Characters == == List of Samurai Shodown Characters ==

Revision as of 17:23, 22 January 2008

To-do list for Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Video games: edit · history · watch · refresh · Updated 2014-05-29

Summary of Video games WikiProject open tasks
AfDs Merge discussions Other discussions No major discussions Featured content candidates Good article nominations DYK nominations Reviews and reassessments
Articles that need...

Archive
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Help needed with Dead Rising/Frank West

There is a conflict going on, that involves several pages now: Frank West, Dead Rising and Characters and Story of Dead Rising. In my view, there was a consensus reached here:Talk:Dead_Rising#Frank_West_merge, however a few people don't want to accept it and have been edit warring. Then they used the characters and story page to just have a redundant copy of information in the Dead Rising article. I'm considering putting the story and characters article in AFD, if the redirect wont stick. Dead Rising was one game, and all plot/character information is described fine in the main article. There is no good reason to move content at this point. The plot for Dead Rising is a bit lengthy and should be cut down a bit, not moved. RobJ1981 (talk) 23:32, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

This is a huge mess that has lead a good article (Frank West) being merged and merged again into a really awful article. Present information at the place where it is best presented. This place can differ for each subject and isn't necessarily the main article. Going to do an ad hoc assessment of Dead Rising to give the debate more structure. User:Krator (t c) 23:49, 5 January 2008 (UTC)
And in other people's judgement, the result of the discussion was no consensus to merge. This canvassing needs to stop, Rob. Thank you. Kyaa the Catlord (talk) 02:04, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
Notifying WikiProjects is generally not considered canvassing, though, and sometimes even encouraged. The description of the discussion could've been more neutral though. User:Krator (t c) 15:38, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
Some have argued that notifying the WikiProjects of fictional subject in particular is a type of canvassing that leads to keeps or no consensus on AFDs of said articles about fictional characters or locations. As departed user Larry laptop put it, no WikiProject about real things would defend the non-notability of a scientist, but that a WikiProject on fictional things will defend it to the hilt. hbdragon88 (talk) 00:06, 8 January 2008 (UTC)
There's a large difference between notifying WikiProject Runescape of some Runescape gamecruft for deletion, and notifying WikiProject Video games of that same problem. We're not all keep-happy fanboys here, to bluntly state it. User:Krator (t c) 20:43, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Assessment Department

The Assessment Department for this project is now one year old! The group has provided 167 assessments over the last year, with accompanying reviews and discussions. Come over and assess articles or propose articles for assessment, and make our second year an even bigger success! --PresN (talk) 16:35, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

A year already? Kudos go to UnaLaguna and PresN for making things work :) User:Krator (t c) 17:38, 6 January 2008 (UTC)
Indeed, great job on the assessments, the comments left on talk pages are always great and definitely help to improve the articles. It also helps new users get involved in the project. Even though I was the one who started the page, I have not contributed many assessments myself, so I want to thank all those who have. JACOPLANE • 2008-01-6 19:38
Only a year? Sheesh, the efficiency they've got into it made me think it had been going for much longer! Don't worry, I'll have some more StarCraft articles for you guys to assess in the coming months.-- Sabre (talk) 21:11, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

Congratulations to reviewers for making the initiative such a success.Someone another (talk) 07:15, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Strategy game and Strategy video game

In the spirit of the previous split between multiplayer game and multiplayer video game, I think this one has been long overdue. A strategy video game article is basically embedded in the middle of an article about strategy board games. Concepts like "real time" or "4x" or "artillery" are simply irrelevant to board games. We have a separate category for strategy video games, so I see every reason to have a separate article. So I've pulled out the computer game section from strategy game to create a new strategy video game article, and added a few references and new pieces of information. I hope we can build on this. Feel free to leave any comments or concerns here and I will try to make changes as needed. Ludologist12 (talk) 04:19, 7 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't see how the issues related to strategy games somehow take a right turn when it comes to video games. Also, your claim that lots of sources claim that strategy games can be discussed as a purely video game phenomenon needs to be backed up with sources. SharkD (talk) 05:29, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
I don't need other sources that "claim" anything. There are just lots of sources that DO it: Video game articles from video game sources discuss strategy video games and not board games. They're talking about different phenomena with statements that don't apply to each other. (e.g.: "strategy games can be real time" is plainly false for one, while true for the other. "strategy games have no element of luck" is plainly false for one, and true for the other.) That's what supports the need for a separate article. Compare perspective (graphical) with perspective (visual). There's no need for a source that proclaims they are separate issues. Sources just discuss them separately. 65.95.156.135 (talk) 16:00, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Topic Archiver Bot

See Misplaced Pages talk:WikiProject Video games/Archive index. User:Krator (t c) 17:45, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Very cool, I like this. It's just as searchable as the Archive topics page, but much easier to navigate and read. (Guyinblack25 18:30, 9 January 2008 (UTC))
Sweet, so are we deprecating the old archive page now? JACOPLANE • 2008-01-9 19:06
Great as that is, the archive bot isn't archiving this page on time. - hahnchen 19:23, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Oh wait, that's a different bot. - hahnchen 19:24, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
I think Pagrashtak just found the problem with the auto-archiving. The bot is fine, but there was a lowercase p in WikiProject instead of an uppercase P in the config, so hopefully it should work now. Unfortunately, I think the bot has finished its run today, so we have to wait until tomorrow to see if it works. MrKIA11 (talk) 19:32, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Someone needs to give that guy a capitalization barnstar! *cough* Pagrashtak 20:05, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Is that supposed to be a compliment or an insult? I have no idea what you are talking about. I guess I'm just naive. MrKIA11 (talk) 20:12, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
I was (facetiously) saying that someone should give me a barnstar for fixing it—just a joke, definitely not insulting anyone. Pagrashtak 20:44, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Oh, you were referring to yourself, got it. MrKIA11 (talk) 20:58, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
I've read the bot instructions. Am I right in saying that it archives 14 days after the last time stamp in a thread?. - X201 (talk) 09:06, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Yes. It archives the thread 14 days after the last post. MrKIA11 (talk) 14:30, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Archive pages

Does anyone mind if I change the Archive pages to the format of /Archive # instead of the current /archive#? This would allow to have the archive box be automatic. I will personally move all of the pages, and move any links from the old pages to the new ones. I'll also nominate the old pages for speedy deletion, and update the bots' settings. MrKIA11 (talk) 19:48, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Will you use any leading zeroes? User:Krator (t c) 19:49, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
No. There can't be for the auto archive box to work. Is there a reason? MrKIA11 (talk) 19:55, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Why would this affect the archive bot? - hahnchen 20:05, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
The reason is that Krator is a robot, and considers 10 to come between 1 and 2 alphabetically. What's this about speedy deletion, though? If you move the page, you'll just leave a redirect. Pagrashtak 20:07, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Oh. So does it matter? Never mind about the deletion, not sure why I said that. MrKIA11 (talk) 20:13, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
User:Krator (t c) 21:08, 9 January 2008 (UTC) (Not a robot)
I don't see the harm in leaving the redirects. Pagrashtak 20:44, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
I meant does it matter whether the numbers have leading zeros? MrKIA11 (talk) 21:00, 9 January 2008 (UTC)
Non-robot Krator, any reason you're asking about the leading zeroes? Pagrashtak 21:34, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Talking of archives..

Can the deletion archive be... archived? Now that we're covering most if not all AFDs related to video games, it's going to be filling up a heck of a lot quicker and is already a fair old chore to go through. I could archive all December's prods and AFDs first, then it can be 1st Jan 2008 - onwards.

Could someone also explain how to add categories for discussion to the deletion list? Compared to checking the AFDs every day searching TFDs and CFDs takes seconds, but I couldn't add a category for discussion no matter which way it was turned. :( Someone another (talk) 22:17, 9 January 2008 (UTC)

Just out of curiosity, does anyone in the project use the archive? I'm interested to find out how often they are accessed. Pagrashtak 14:50, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
I have been tempted to use it a few times as a link in AFD arguments (using fallacies like "twenty articles like this one were deleted last year"), but every time I went to the archive I noticed how much work counting all related articles would take, so decided not to use it in the end. User:Krator (t c) 19:45, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
Let's archive it to WP:ALLORNOTHING then. ;) Pagrashtak 16:49, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I used it recently, once, to dig out the recent fictional videogame AFD, and that's it. Are you suggesting that the archive could be culled altogether due to never being used? Personally I would try to file things away if it's deemed necessary, but if nobody is going to use the archive then get the matches. <.< Someoneanother 22:15, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

I would drop the alphabetising instantly, because of the huge amount of work it takes. A little copy-paste into an archive can't hurt, and I would be willing to do that every once in a while. User:Krator (t c) 14:47, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
Well if I archive the stuff running up to new year's eve, perhaps from that point we could just archive by date (IE older stuff at the bottom, newer stuff at the top) and encourage readers to use the find function in their browsers. Would anybody take issue with switching in this way? Someoneanother 07:41, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
The archiving's done (including PRODs), just need discussion about where to go from here. Someoneanother 14:51, 14 January 2008 (UTC)
Anyone? :( Come on, if there's a chance to reduce the amount of time fannying around when archiving I'm sure we've all got better things to do with WP. Someoneanother 12:16, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
  • Do whatever takes the least time for you.
  • Wait until someone complains.
  • :)
User:Krator (t c) 12:27, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Ohhhkay, I'll be bold at the end of January, try (try) to archive the archive properly and start depositing closed deletion debates in monthly chunks. Some additional info on the archive page (use of CTRL + F for the find function) plus a little explanation should be plenty. It is my pleasure to keep the AFDs up to date, but the archiving system has to be easy to use as well as fit for purpose or it will discourage usage. I'll drop a note here when I do, so if peeps could glance over my shoulder to make sure I'm not ballsing it up it would be appreciated. Someoneanother 13:21, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Archive box

The new archive box looks really weird. Is it possible to go back to the old style or find a way to correct the layout of this one? .:Alex:. 18:46, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

What do you think is wrong with it? MrKIA11 (talk) 23:27, 10 January 2008 (UTC)
I personally also prefer the old version of five archives per row, a leading zero on the single digit archives, and a smaller font. JACOPLANE • 2008-01-11 06:27
The version with five on a row looked a lot cleaner. Pagrashtak 16:48, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
I am currently working on getting {{archive list}} to be more customizable, so that we can go back to the original 5 columns. MrKIA11 (talk) 18:17, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
Is this new box ok? MrKIA11 (talk) 15:12, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Please review proposed WP:FICT guideline

I would like to get more eyes to review the proposed version of Notability (fiction) beyond what those participating on the current talk page have provided. This is not to get consensus for it yet, but to make sure there are no major issues with it before going to that step. Please address any concerns on WT:FICT. Thank you. --MASEM 18:58, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

If you're watching a B or GA class article...

Please consider listing one of your B-class or GA-class articles for assessment. If the article is not A-class already, the assessor's comments may prove helpful to put it up to that standard. Some reasons for me to post this are:

  • We currently have 157 GAs, 72 FAs, and ... 8 A-class articles. Doesn't seem right.
  • I've seen quite a lot of articles, and many GA-class articles are not actually good. Rather than angrily removing ratings, editing the articles is better.
  • This is a good way of improving Misplaced Pages.

User:Krator (t c) 23:17, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Rating articles as A-class only seems to have been a recent phenomenom, I imagine many assessors haven't really thought of A-class, thinking that it just goes B-GA-FA since A-class doesn't automatically mean a GA. However, I do agree with your main points there. -- Sabre (talk) 09:36, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
I think part of it is a misconception the Quality scale gives. The way it is set up displays it as a linear progression through a single scale. I thought this myself until a few months ago when I learned that the "Stub - Start - B - A" scale is a project specific scale separate from the "GA - FA" scale which is a Misplaced Pages-wide scale. Is there a better way to express this? Or is there a way to give the A-class more coverage to help editors strive for an A-class along with GA? (Guyinblack25 16:13, 11 January 2008 (UTC))
This is a problem I call the GA/A gap, or "GA/Ap™" One problem is that once an article has reached a stage that you feel is A-Class, you might as well submit to FA instead of A-Class assessment. If it would pass A-Class, it should be practically FA already, and the FA system has a lot more traffic and will result in much more article improvement. Pagrashtak 16:47, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
I suspect the main difference between FA/A will be that A-class articles will be more lenient towards in-universe language in sections specifically entitled "plot", but will be more stringent in other things, like gaming jargon. I have yet to see any FAC, non-VG peer review, or GA review that commented on gaming jargon. Some articles like certain character lists will never be able to get to FA because of the current climate, but will attain A-status. Similarly, many articles that have no references in the Gameplay and Plot sections could be A-class easily. User:Krator (t c) 19:34, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
Another way to look at GA/FA vs Start/Stub/B/A is that one is a Misplaced Pages-wide standard, the other is specific to a project. The only intermix between the two is that an A article should be better than a GA (to meet project specific targets) while a B article is less than a GA article.
What this means is that when an article gets to GA (the WP standard) it would probably be a good thing to then request additional reassessment in the specific WP to see if it merits A quality. That is, right now, there's probably of the 157 GA articles we have listed (per above) I would suspect a lot more of them are really "A" quality.
But as noted, what tends to happen is that an article is GA'd, it is NOT reviewd by the project for reassessment, then the articles goes FA. That "A" step is implicit in the process, nor is required, but we should encourage more A-level reassessments after articles succeed at GA. --MASEM 22:06, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
I think the reason behind that is that A-class technically doesn't require GA status and vice versa. I agree that it would be good to encourage reassessing GA's for A-class. Though it may add another step on the path to FA, I think it'll be a good way to better prepare articles for FA. There are a few articles that come to mind that aren't quite ready for FA, but I think would meet A-class requirements. Is there a special way to request reassessment for A-class or do we list the article the normal way on WP:VG/A? (Guyinblack25 01:23, 12 January 2008 (UTC))
WP:VG/A User:Krator (t c) 01:46, 12 January 2008 (UTC)r

The assessment was very helpful indeed, except that I still had no idea how to improve the article and it has since been demoted to B-class. This phenomenon of prose and timeline – still seemingly impossible to fix. hbdragon88 (talk) 20:31, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Looking at the comments on the talk page its been demoted because of the potential for new information as the game appears to be nearing release, so an article structured around it being vapourware is less valid in describing the game. Proseline's just a matter of wording, work out the bits starting "on this date" and get them integrated as full prose and it should be fine -- Sabre (talk) 21:57, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
I thought it was more than poor quality of the text, some uncited paragraphs – than the release date. There is still no release date for it. It's just a trailer. It's still vaporware until they set a date. If that was the only point I could have argued it down. I'll try to work on it more, though. hbdragon88 (talk) 00:12, 12 January 2008 (UTC)
This article is a classic example of why I don't "trust" GA ratings. It was not a good article because of the proseline, which makes for some bad prose, and shouldn't have been promoted in the first place. Instead, it was demoted for some arcane reason. User:Krator (t c) 14:45, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Request for opinions on a merge.

I'm proposing that Insurrection (StarCraft) and Retribution (StarCraft) be merged into StarCraft (series), as the two add-ons are minor products that I'm struggling to establish full independent notability for and therefore believe that they are best covered as integrated parts of the StarCraft series article. I thought I'd post here to try and get some views from people disconnected from the undergoings in the StarCraft articles, but can give useful VG-related advice. Please, offer your opinions on this at the StarCraft (series) talk page. -- Sabre (talk) 10:40, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Articles about sonic the hedgehog chracters

I'm not sure if this is the right place, or the right way to do this! So sorry if I'm doing this in error!

user:TTN keeps reoving Other villains in Sonic the Hedgehog (games) and Other characters in Sonic the Hedgehog (games)‎, without waiting until the dicussion is mafe about if and how the articles should be merged, there are also other article proposed for merger! Anyways, I believe the articles would do much better being merged, but not as TTN is doing and the article they keep replacing List of characters from Sonic the Hedgehog (games) with is weak and really not a merger at all. Also my problems with the merger are that what they propose is that the first half of the article is nothing but links to other articles, and the rest are a few chracters, that theu personally believe to be notable! If the articles are merged into one, also, it will end up being too long, that is one of the rasons it has been seperated into Other villains in Sonic the Hedgehog (games) and Other chracters in Sonic the Hedgehog (games), maybe any information could be merged into them two, with the main characters having their own articles, and List of characters from Sonic the Hedgehog (games) serving as a bridge between them all!
as I said, I believe a merge could be of benefit, but no the way TTN is going about it! Cream the Rabbit, Blaze the Cat, Silver the Hedgehog, Rouge the Bat, Eggman Nega and Babylon Rogues could easily be merged with other articles: Villains and Other characters, , E-123 Omega should aslo be merged with E-Series (Sonic the Hedgehog), Chaos (Sonic the Hedgehog) is as important a enemy as Doctor Robotnik and Chaotix should have any associated cracters merged into it and then it could even be merged into other character. What TTN is doing, doesn't help with anything to do with real-world significance, only with condencing the articles into one!
there really is too many rambling articles on singular chracters (many of which TTN has singled out); and they should be trimed and seperated into Villains and Other characters, the Main characters that are notable enough to have their own articles should also be sorted out! That leaves two seperate articles for 'bit players' and however many seperate main chracter articles (how many are there of those anywayas?), and the article we are discussing on now should be used as a bridge for all Soinc the Hedgehog related chracters within the games, this would make the whole video game related articles better, of the Comic Book/other related articles I know nothing of though. but I'm sure they need tidying up!
TNN propsed that all one game chracter should be removed, compleatly from the articles, meaning only Nack the Weasel from Other vilains survives, while Eggman Nega is in two, so are the Babylon Rogues, but they can't be in a merged article?

I put this here, only because I belive it would be better for others interested in Video Game articles, other than Sonic the Hedgehog fans, to have a say about this subject! (Sorry if this isn't very well written, it's taken from my 'discussion' with TTN)  Doktor  Wilhelm  16:37, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Report TTN if he keeps it up. He's been given enough warnings about blanking content and blanking images off list articles. Anyway, my view on the whole matter is: some list articles could use some condensing. People seem to think character lists should be "catch alls" for every character ever, but that's not reasonable at all. There is notability and other factors that determine what goes on lists (and articles in general), which should be followed. RobJ1981 (talk) 19:46, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

We had this about a thousand times now. Some tips for the discussion:

  1. Even if you win this debate, it will get merged/redirected anyway after a week or so. See Frank West (warning: redirect hell). Thus: concede here.
  2. Most of the content is rightfully merged/redirected. Thus: don't attempt to change everything, don't accuse people of bad intentions, etc.
  3. Most of the merged/redirect content that was not justified was not easily recognised as such, because it was poorly written and referenced. Thus: write up a really awesome article in a sandbox, list it at WP:VG/A, improve it, then move it to the mainspace.

Doing the above is the best way to improve Misplaced Pages in such situations. @TTN: maybe you should suggest the above, especially the "not easily recognised as such" part of #3, to people when you're redirecting in the future. User:Krator (t c) 19:55, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

If the merge discussion is still going on, I don't see why TTN thinks he should be redirecting all the articles before it ends. He is assuming just about everything should be in list form, and no character articles should exist. While character cruft does run wild on Misplaced Pages, some character articles should be fine. Many times he doesn't explain what he is doing in the edit summary, so that's part of the problem as well. Plus he's blanked images off articles for no good reason as well. RobJ1981 (talk) 20:03, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
The two lists are the articles being forcibly merged and redirected, not the single characters. The lists were redirected before the discussion because there is no point in them. The first list has all one game characters besides one, which was merged, and the second list was half and half, and those have also been merged to the main list (in an old revision). The merge tags, which encompass only the secondary characters, came afterwards. He seems to agree with merging most of them anyways. Still, this is just another overprotective fan that doesn't understand, or want to understand, our policies and guidelines, so it's going to be messy either way. In regards to the comment about images, I only remove images if they are of trivial subjects or if a group image(s) will work in their place. TTN (talk) 21:19, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
While I do agree with merging the single character articles, I believe the subject would be better of with two list, rather than the one! And I am sorry if TTN believes that I am "just another overprotective fan", but all information on one subject can't be put into one single article, otherwise one day[REDACTED] will just be one article, reading: "Eveything<ref>The Universe</ref>!", just because the real world is a better reference for eveything!  Doktor  Wilhelm  21:33, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

Pokémon Ranger 2

This article was recently created. I was suspicious and Googled it up, nad learned that there seems to be no translated name. Can someone who knows Japanese look to see what the game's title is and move the page to the Japanese one until it gets translated. hbdragon88 (talk) 20:32, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

For the DDR mix pages...

I'm thinking that we should split off the song lists and common gameplay elements into separate articles like on the Guitar Hero articles, that may make them a bit easier to understand. ViperSnake151 03:09, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

There are a lot of people on Misplaced Pages that feel DDR games don't deserve specific articles for each game, let alone two. Even if they were viewed favorably I would disagree that a whole page needs to be devoted to just the song list when it can fit comfortably in-line with the rest of the article. For instance Dance Dance Revolution (Computer versions) is an article I created (One of the first of many I will be added to this category of games) and in it I simply made the wikitables collapsed by default as to not distract from the rest of the article. And all you need to do is click Show and you've got the full song list, right there in the article. It makes a lot of sense to embed the song list like this and that's the format I'm going to be carrying with the new articles I add. --AeronPrometheus (talk) 10:39, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

Films based on video games

I just assessed Films based on video games, which seems a really important article, and is in a poor state. A little notification here in the hope someone familiar with the subject can't hurt, I thought. User:Krator (t c) 20:38, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Isn't Movie tie-in (video game) equally important article? It's basically its counterpart. --Mika1h (talk) 21:34, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Lemmings list articles

I came across Comparison of Lemmings ports and References in Lemmings level names recently, and I was wondering if both should just be redirects or be put in AFD? The comparision page is useful, but I'm not so sure about it's encyclopedic value here. The references article: a very trivial list that probably should go. RobJ1981 (talk) 02:48, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I've prodded the referneces one, but the comparison one seems to have merit. Possilby merge with the main Lemmings article? hbdragon88 (talk) 08:08, 13 January 2008 (UTC)
What would be necessary to say about references in level names is discussed briefly in the article (referenced even) but need not merit more discussion (can be heavily OR). The port comparison one is a bit heavy for main article inclusion, and presently lacks any references. Maybe the first table alone would be appropriate (no need to discuss what features are or aren't present, nor the clones). --MASEM 10:56, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Sonic the Hedgehog characters

Ignoring the above section, the articles need to be condensed. The current lists (List of characters from Sonic the Hedgehog (games), Other characters in Sonic the Hedgehog (games), Other villains in Sonic the Hedgehog (games)) are full of one game characters and other trivial ones. That's all compared to this version, which contains only the recurring characters in a trimmed down state. If people can please comment, and just state that that one list is more preferable than those three, that would be great. TTN (talk) 13:20, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I need some help condensing lists into prose

Instead of a cluttered long list, a prose should be done for all wrestling video game articles. See WWE_SmackDown_vs._Raw_2008#Roster for a good example. Anyone care to help out? RobJ1981 (talk) 20:19, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

Solicitation for VG review

I was wondering if an able editor here could do the Good Article nomination of Halo (series). It's been languishing in backlog hell for a while, and as I'm a significant contributor to the article I can't do it meself. Cheers, David Fuchs 22:49, 13 January 2008 (UTC)

I'll take a look. Dihydrogen Monoxide 01:11, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

General template for video game lists

User:FMF asked me on Talk:List of Final Fantasy media to create a template that could be used across all video game lists. The results can be seen User:Axem Titanium/Sandbox2. Any feedback would be appreciated. Axem Titanium (talk) 01:48, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Fixing up the Mega Man (character) article

This is a call-to-arms, of sorts, for people to fix up the Mega Man article. I feel like such an important character to video games should have a much better article than what is currently up. I tried calling attention to it on its talk page, but no one has replied. I've done a small part; I "prosed" up the "Abilities" section, which used to be a list, but of course, much more is needed, such as sources and references. I'm afraid I'm not too knowledgable about the Mega Man universe so I can't really add information per se, but as far as organization and other miscellanea I'll be glad to help with, if time permits. Thank you. ♣ Bishop Tutu ♣ 04:17, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Since when does "Game" mean exclusively "Video game"?

Good grief, did some software company patent the term "game" while I wasn't looking? Never before on WP have I seen such an egregious misassignment of article titles!

When looking at these articles, ask yourself, "Is there anything in this article of what existed and what people knew about games and gaming before 1970? Would any of the current content still be there if we could revert it that far back?"

The above articles make no mention at all of their subjects outside of the realm of computer and video gaming, when clearly the concepts they purport to describe are equally applicable to board games, card games, wargames, etc.

The above articles all pay only cursory lip service to the non-computer aspects of their subjects, while focusing almost exclusively on the video gaming aspects. They typically describe concepts from a computer or video gaming POV, and use examples from those realms only.

The above articles are the few I found beginning with the word "game" that actually do at least try to cover their subjects from a non-computer POV, but most of them could still stand an infusion of traditional gaming information.

Now I know that for some articles (such as Game artificial intelligence), it doesn't make sense to discuss the subject from a non-computer realm; and I also know that I'm fighting an uphill battle here, since most WP editors are computer geeks, and most computer geeks are video gamers - but I'm hoping someone better at this than me would be willing to take the bull by the horns and make the necessary movements to ensure that these articles appropriate for all gaming contingents, and not just the computer geeks. 71.126.99.212 (talk) 06:04, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

To me this is unnecessary, at least for most of them. I feel it's safe to say that when someone sees "Game artist," "Gameplay," "Game design," "Gamer" (especially), etc., they won't be thinking about board games, which is the only possible name someone could confuse it with. It seems like your viewpoint on this seems to be in a very miniscule minority. I haven't seen all of these articles, but I think a few of them may need to be deleted, if not just taken care of in some major fashion. ♣ Bishop Tutu ♣ 06:26, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm not so sure we can throw the anon's concerns away that readily. Ok, the NPOV issues are a different issue, but lets consider that some of the articles s/he presents as VG biased really aren't limited to VGs, such as game tester or game design. I suggest we get some input from other (traditional) game projects like WP:WPBTG to determine if there should be a more general article where these are, and if so, move the existing ones to, say, game design (video gaming) and so forth (as it's never commonly called "video game design". --MASEM 06:34, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
I've left them a note inviting them over. I'll get the drinks, Masem can you sort out the nibbles? - X201 (talk) 09:28, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanks to X201 for pointing this out on WP:WPBTG. I agree with the IP user; there's definitely a systemic bias in[REDACTED] in favour of computer-based versions of things - which Klptyzm expresses above. It's understandable - all wikipedia's editors are at least going to spend some time at a computer - but it's something that we should keep an eye on, and avoid where possible. I'd add {{future game}} to the list. I tried recently to get it made generic, but was only half-successful. Percy Snoodle (talk) 09:50, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
With respect to Bishop Tutu, I'll have to disagree with him (I'm assuming "him", apologies if I'm wrong here and I'll fix it). There are plenty of people who earn their living designing boardgames. (Likely not as many as those associated with video games, but that might also be because video games require a larger number of people to handle all the programming, graphics design, etc, etc.) I'm sure that many of the articles mentioned above can be improved and/or split into relevant articles for boardgames/card games/dice games/etc and video games. The Game designer article likely falls short on the mention of notable game designers such as Larry Harris (game designer) (designer of all five Axis & Allies games, the first one celebrating 25 years), Sid Sackson, and many others. The existence of many large annual (primarily non-video) gaming conventions points to the overall importance and popularity that this subject has. So, in a few words, yes, there seems to be vast room for improvement. --Craw-daddy | T | 09:57, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
BTW, the omission of Sackson there was one of the things I already saw fit to correct, and one of the things that drove me to post here (A Gamut of Games was like a bible for me growing up). 71.126.99.212 (talk) 13:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
My opinion is that trying to include all possible definitions of a game into each and every article that has the word "game" in it would result in a number of {{Copy to Wiktionary}} candidates. The anonymous user's suggestion that the game theory article has a "math geek POV" completely misses the point. Game Theory refers to a specific academic discipline, and it has a very different idea of what a game is than most of us do. Likewise, if I pick up a book on Game Design, I can be pretty sure it's going to talk primarily about video games. That isn't to say articles can't be written about e.g. Board Game development (or the History of American football, which could also loosely be called "game development"), but I think game by itself is too broad a premise to build anything on. Nifboy (talk) 11:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
I can't speak for all those articles, but I can definitely say that Game theory is fine as it is, since it's actually a branch of mathematics to begin with. Even if it weren't obvious at first, one only needs to follow the links to some of the games described and have a quick browse. As Nifboy said, Game theory is an academic pursuit. Ong elvin (talk) 11:26, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
As for the other articles being disputed, I would agree that there is definitely a systemic bias towards using video games. I think the articles should be heavily edited to be more generic to games as a whole, with subsections for video games, sports, board games, card games, etc. as with the Game article. Ong elvin (talk) 11:32, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

FWIW, I came here looking for information about card games, and created this section because I was shocked at how little I found when starting from Game design. I expected I might run into some dense theoretical discussion, but didn't expect the video gaming slant I found. While it may be true that afficionados of traditional board and card games are now in the minority, that alone doesn't make their subject matter unworthy of inclusion; and, if there were some decent content here, you might find that this minority isn't as "miniscule" as some presume it to be (Catch-22, I know).

As a relative newbie to this, I admit I might have used the term POV inappropriately to refer to an article's slant or bias, but I still think that a good WP article should cover its subject from every angle from which it could be approached, and not reject or ignore some because they're not as popular; that's one of the reasons why disambiguation pages exist. Had I known that a separate Project on Board and table games existed, I would have posted this there, instead, but there's no way I would have found that out from these pages - which is exactly my point. 71.126.99.212 (talk) 13:11, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

Some pointers on this discussion, I personally do not have any strong opinions either way.

  • The dictionary definition does not matter much, because Misplaced Pages naming guidelines are about the most common usage.
  • The appropriate policy to refer to here is WP:UNDUE. The question that needs to be answered is "What weight should be given to each use of the word game?"
  • The only way to properly answer that question is as to how people use the word "game" nowadays, and all the other sub-terms like "game design".
  • I think it's very unlikely that the right solution here would be applicable to everything. "Game" in game producer and "game" in game tester have a different connotation.

User:Krator (t c) 13:35, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

  • (I came here from WP:WPBTG, so thanks for the drinks and non-salty non-greasy snacks.) Last point first: Yes, these topics don't all call for the same amount of boardgame/cardgame/miniatures content... but we can't rely too heavily on the connotations perceived by a small number of interested (some of them only in the video side) editors. We need mainly to address each topic encyclopedically: in summary of its whole, with greatest attention to the parts with most lasting influence, but with due attention to all significant parts. I haven't reviewed many of the identified articles, but I trust the word of Percy Snoodle, Craw-daddy, and others that some of these articles deserve more non-videogame content. (Game designer needs such text at all beyond a short list). As I get time I'll try to collaborate on such material, but I'm too far loaded to be the lead guy for these expansions. Barno (talk) 00:00, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Development of Spore

Spore is a massive game, but is a whole article on it's development necessary? I'm sure this article was made to make the main article look better, but I think it's a bit too much. RobJ1981 (talk) 02:27, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

I thought that ESRB re-rating of The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion was a bit much too, but that's now an FA. And...there's a one paragraph "stub" for ESRB re-rating of Mysims. hbdragon88 (talk) 02:59, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
I still think it's a bit much. The question comes up: yes, it's possible to write a 50kb article about it but why would you want to? And who would care? No offense to the people who worked on it but I feel like it's a waste to say in 100 words what can be said in 10, if you know what I mean. Even as said article admits, "the events passed by with little notice from the public at large". I would sincerely push for at least trying to cut down the info and merge it back, in the interests of conciseness, for both Elder Scrolls IV and Spore. Axem Titanium (talk) 03:28, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
If there really is that much content out there, I don't see why we shouldn't have it. No reason not to cut down, but keep as a seperate article. Dihydrogen Monoxide 11:50, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm tempted to AFD it. It seems like excessive detail that isn't necessary. RobJ1981 (talk) 12:59, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
I can see where you're coming from, but think to be considering deleting a well written and referenced article will ruffle some feathers. I think I would abstain from voting, only because I'm too torn between too detailed vs. we have bigger fish to fry.--CM (talk) 14:38, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
"I don't like it" is never a reason for deletion, and if there are reliable sources for it, we should not stand in the way, after all, the Development and Re-rating articles for Elder Scrolls Oblivion is top notch. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 03:56, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
I never said I didn't like it. Just because some similar articles exist, doesn't mean every game should instantly have development articles. RobJ1981 (talk) 17:23, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

List of Samurai Shodown Characters

Hey everyone, I need another opionion about this article. I've been working on trying to make this notable since its removal. The deleted version of the article was made on this user's page but it appears he has left Misplaced Pages. It has undergone vast improvements from when it was deleted , and I was wondering if the article as it is now is good enough to be included with the main article again. I have requested feedback for the article here and was told to raise the matter to people more knowledgeable about gaming. I haven't merged the history as Elipongo kindly suggested yet as I was wondering about everyone's thoughts on the matter. Thanks in advance! :) Sake neko (talk) 03:07, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Template question

Is this necessary: Template:DeadRising ? Dead Rising is one game, so this seems a little too broad to me at least. RobJ1981 (talk) 14:43, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Seems a bit overkill to me. Normal practise is to have a nav box for a series of games (or game that has quite a few articles about it). I've only just created one for the Buzz! series and there are 11 games in that series. - X201 (talk) 14:55, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
I'd say it's overkill. Two articles can easily be put into a "see also" section. Or the whole wiki markup for the template could just be copied to the bottom of the article instead. — Frecklefσσt | Talk 15:36, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
I doubt it was even necessary when all the DR articles were in existence, let alone for two. Someoneanother 19:10, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

Another question

Might as well ask here without starting a new discussion. Are any other Firefox users seeing the text flow over the right side of the template in Template:Might and Magic series? This is how it displays in my Firefox: . Other browsers (Explorer and Opera) display it just right. Is the navbox not optimised for Firefox or where is the problem? --Mika1h (talk) 22:53, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

I'm using Firefox and I'm viewing that template just fine. It doesn't look like the JPEG you provided. --Silver Edge (talk) 23:07, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
I do see it, and playing with the browser width, it seems to be an issue only with the links that start with a left-parenthesis "(". Not sure what to do about it. Nifboy (talk) 02:09, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
I have the problem also in Firefox. I tried adding/removing a sidebar to see how that affected it, and I get spillover both with and without the sidebar, but in different parts of the text. Pagrashtak 03:52, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
I believe I've fixed the problem by using {{Nowrap}}. Pagrashtak 03:59, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Works for me. Awesome. Nifboy (talk) 11:41, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Yeah, good job. --Mika1h (talk) 21:05, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

VG Images that need saving

If anyone would like to save some video game images from deletion, see Special:Contributions/Project FMF. A lot of the images he's been tagging are box art, and would meet Misplaced Pages's non-free content criteria if rationale was added. I've done some, but there's a lot there if you look through the whole history. If you add rationales, remember to mention the article for which the rationale applies and wikilink it, to prevent a bot from auto-tagging the images as non-compliant. If you aren't sure what any of this means, feel free to ask me, another VG admin, or someone from the VG images department and we'll fill you in on the details. If an image you want to save has already been deleted, contact the deleting admin (or me if you want) and explain that you want the image restored so you can add non-free rationale and we can restore the image. Pagrashtak 04:44, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Last 500 image contribs - go nuts guys. The ones with a "top" alongside them haven't been touched since he tagged them, so they need rationales. Dihydrogen Monoxide (party) 07:34, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Small additional - Make sure to check the bottom of the image page to see if the image is used on more than one article. If it is it will need a separate rational for each article that the image is used on. - X201 (talk) 09:13, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Or removed from the second article if it does not meet Misplaced Pages's non-free content criteria. Pagrashtak 16:41, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

Again, Misplaced Pages:WikiProject Video games/Video Game Images lists some good templates that can be easily used to add a fair use rational to the image description pages. JACOPLANE • 2008-01-18 22:53

Help needed with List of Wii games

When I went to edit: I noticed several L games (that are only visible when you edit the page only). Can someone fix this? There might be more, I'm not sure.. I only checked that section, as I was wondering why the Legend of Zelda game for the Wii wasn't listed. RobJ1981 (talk) 12:24, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

I've seen bigger game lists, and they haven't been an issue. RobJ1981 (talk) 16:15, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
Fixed. It appears to have been a reference tag formatting issue. Jappalang (talk) 23:11, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

User adding GameSpot succession boxes

Does anyone feel this is useful? I removed it, but got reverted. Pagrashtak 18:42, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

A) It's hard to verify just from the box, B) it seems rather pointless. I'd remove it again. David Fuchs 18:52, 21 January 2008 (UTC)
I dunno - I actually kinda like that. It's not that hard to verify (they publish the winners, don't they?). It may not be the most useful thing in the world (succession boxes rarely are...) so I'd leave it. Dihydrogen Monoxide (party) 00:23, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Here are my problems with it:
  • It's largely redundant—we already mention the award (with a reference) in the reception section. Some articles have it twice already (text and review box). Why do we need to tell the reader yet again at the bottom?
  • The extra information isn't helpful—If you're reading about The Legend of Zelda: The Wind Waker, you would likely be interested to learn that it received GameSpot's GameCube game of the year award for 2003. You are not likely to be interested in what game won the award in 2002 or 2004.
  • Relevant information is no longer grouped together—In the Wind Waker article, the awards were are found in the reception section, with the exception of the lead section, which summarizes the article. Now we have a box labeled "Awards" in the reception section, and a box labeled "Awards" at the bottom of the article, with different information.
  • This will expand into something unreadable—right now the article just has a box for GameSpot's GameCube game of the year. Eventually, someone will add game of the month awards, and awards from Nintendo Power, IGN, Edge, Game Developers Choice Awards, Interactive Achievement Awards, GameFAQs user polls, and so forth until we've got a quarter of the article taken up with these boxes. Pagrashtak 14:31, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
My main objection to it stems from your last point. What makes a Gamespot Game of the Year better than any other magazine's opinion?. Mention it in text in the actual article but in no way does the award need it's own box. Delete it. - X201 (talk) 14:37, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
I strongly agree with the above reasons, particularly the last point - it will encourage more of the same.
Now, that doesn't mean categorizing these awards isn't a bad idea. Through templates and categories, we could make a series of award categories for major publications. For example: LoZ:WW could have {{gamespot award|2003|Gamecube GOTY}} tagged at the end, which then puts it into two categories, the year and the award. The subsequent categories would be heirarchial from a general "Category:Gamespot-awarded video games" categories. I don't know off hand if more can be done as, say, to make an autosortable table (doubt it), but at least if you are interested in other similarly awarded games (either by year or by award type) that list is readily there. --MASEM 14:39, 22 January 2008 (UTC)
Gives undue wait to GameSpot over other magazines. Get rid of it before it spreads, or causes the creation of similar boxes for other journalism outlets. We're not dealing with something akin to the BAFTAs here, GameSpot is hardly anything so special to warrant its usage. -- Sabre (talk) 15:04, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

The Legend of Zelda: Link's Awakening FAC

I've nom'd the above article at WP:FAC. Comments are of course welcome. David Fuchs 18:52, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

Notability of NeoGAF?

I did a google search and didn't seem to find any reliable results. Should this be sent to AFD or no? RobJ1981 (talk) 14:12, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Easily fails WP:WEB. I've gone ahead and tagged it as such; give the article some time to see if it improves, otherwise, AfD it. (and sorry I didn't get back to you on this, been busy at WT:EPISODE :-P) --MASEM 14:42, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

ZX-Poly - AFD

I've just put ZX-Poly into AFD. The thing dosen't actually exist and is just a conceptual idea by it's creator. - X201 (talk) 15:43, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

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