Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 02:40, 16 August 2005

• Archive 1: August 2003 - July 2004
• Archive 2: August 2004 - July 2005

Red links at Misplaced Pages:Sound/list

I note that there are red links for the Air Force band items uploaded by your bot.

Bot problems? Copyright problems? Attitude problems over at the commons? I thought I'd at least bring it to your attention and offer to help.

I believe that it is a matter of time before there is a policy collision between En: and Commons. If nothing else, there are few commons sysops who are also active on En:. As a result, prompt response vandalism of images that are prominent on En: may become a problem. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 06:08, 24 July 2005 (UTC)

Long story short -- the airforce claims they are all public domain, although some of them may not be. I uploaded them en-masse using Raulbot (I admit I should have been more suspicious about some, but I took their copyright page at face value). Brion deleted them en masse. So there are a lot of red links, with quite a few (roughly half, I'd guess) non-existant files linked to from articles.

At some point, I'd like to try it again more conservatively. There are some file there which are quite obviously public domain (like Holst's the plants) but it's a case of once-bitten twice-shy. →Raul654 04:34, July 25, 2005 (UTC)

Today's featured article

I left a note requesting Marshall, Texas be featured on the main page August 3, but have not recieved a reply. I need to know if it will be featured then, so I'll have time to clean up or create related articles. Please respond. Thanks. -JCarriker 06:40, July 24, 2005 (UTC)

I've gone ahead and scheduled all the featured article through that date. Yes, Marshall Texas will be on the main page on August 3. →Raul654 17:22, July 24, 2005 (UTC)

Raul, Raul, Raul....

I admire your patience in dealing with the ongoing "sneakiness" at AIDS.... but.... "AIDS is the result of infection with Human immunodeficiency virus is correct, and 'AIDS is the result of an infection of Human immunodeficiency virus' isn't. People are infected with a virus, or by a virus, but not of a virus. The second phrase implies that the virus is itself infected (and viruses sometimes are, by phages), and that's wrong for HIV. - Nunh-huh 05:28, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

I suppose you are correct that my construction is ambigious, but the original one sounded awkward. Is there a third option here? →Raul654 05:32, July 25, 2005 (UTC)

I'm sure there are lots of alternatives. "AIDS is caused by infection with the Human Immunodeficiency Virus". "AIDS is caused by the Human Immunodeficiency Virus". "AIDS is a disease caused by infection with the Human Immunodeficiency Virus". I'm not sure what you're finding lacking in "AIDS is the result of infection with Human immunodeficiency virus." It seems to me to be a perfectly reasonable sentence, gramatically. Changing "cause" to "results from" was most likely one of the "sneaky" changes, though. "Cause" ought to be in the topic sentence! (e.g.

AIDS (Acquired Immunodeficiency Syndrome or Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome) is a disease caused by the Human immunodeficiency virus (HIV). HIV infection weakens the immune system, resulting in unusual infections and some rare cancers. Although treatments exist, there is no known cure for AIDS.

Probably not worth worrying too much about until the interference with the article dies down, I just wanted to say that "of" really isn't idiomatic. - Nunh-huh 05:43, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

Iran-Contra Affair

i appreciate your recent edits to this article. J. Parker Stone 21:32, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Thank you :) →Raul654 21:36, July 26, 2005 (UTC)

Video icon

(Regarding Template:Film-stub and Template:Multi-video start and template:video)

I like the old icon better. This one is bumpy on the edges and the old one wasn't. -- BRIAN0918  21:36, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

The problem with the old one was that it was terribly ambigious. It was "sort of" a video cassette, but you wouldn't know that unless you thought about it for a while. The new one, while not as pretty and certainly not perfect, does the job better. →Raul654 21:38, July 26, 2005 (UTC)

On the other hand, I'm totally open to someone coming along with a better icon. There are tons that would suffice - a picture of a TV, for example. →Raul654 23:28, July 26, 2005 (UTC)

You might consider a public domain icon, such as one of these. -- BRIAN0918  23:29, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

How's this? Old: New: —Josh Lee 19:17, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

They look fine to me. →Raul654 19:24, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

Committed. —Josh Lee 22:46, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

You forgot Template:Video (I got it) →Raul654 22:48, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

"Job order"

I'm thinking about duplicating on the English Misplaced Pages a project from the German version, described here. Any objections? Also, any objections to users providing links on their user pages or on related article talk pages for such things as paypal donations, similar to "homework help" forums where answer-providers have links stating "if I have helped you, would you please consider saying thanks in the form of a paypal donation", only in this case, "if you feel my contributions have been useful, would you consider..." or on (for example) a featured article's talk page, "if you feel this article has been informative, would you consider..." (of course, inquiring minds would want to check the edit history to see if the user has contributed anything). This sounds like a good idea and it looks to be growing on the German site. It's sure to increase popularity and incentive for producing more and better content. -- BRIAN0918  21:36, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Well, I know the practice has been highly controversial on the German Misplaced Pages. I can see the benefits it offers, but I can also see several potential problems.

I suspect it would stimulate incentive to produce more content on specific (bountied) subjects. Better content? Maybe, maybe not. I know that often times, requested articles are written more-or-less straight from a google search. So the quality of the requested-and-newly-created articles (depth, breadth, accuracy, and context) isn't very good. Often times, the requested item is so obscure that the requestor knows just as much (if not more) than the person fulfilling the request. Offering bouties may just encourage this less-than-stellar practice.

With respect to "better articles", I was referring to people who offer a bounty for "the next featured article related to _____" (based on examples on the German page).

I'm also afraid that it's going to alter our biases to something unpredictable. What do I mean by that? Well, Misplaced Pages has an fairly well-documented geek and western systemic bias. I think we've all noticed and accepted this, and have adopted practices (both formally and informally) to counter this. Offering bounties opens us up to all other kinds of biases.

I see it as a way to counteract our current biases by offering incentive for people to research things with which they aren't familiar, such as.... all of Africa... -- BRIAN0918  22:09, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

On a less tangible note, offering bounties runs counter to the[REDACTED] altruistic spirit on which[REDACTED] thrives. Many people find the practice inherently distasteful. In the long run, it also opens the door to corporate sponsorship of writers here. (Misplaced Pages is not a soapbox, or a PR platform)

So basically, I would suggest that you wait it out, and see how it shapes up on the German Misplaced Pages. If it works well, we'll import the practice. If not, we can avoid a maelstrom. →Raul654 21:58, July 26, 2005 (UTC)

On the German Misplaced Pages, the Misplaced Pages Community is directly involved with all of it. I'm working on getting a better German translation of the page, but the current machine translation seems to suggest that the Community can decide through consensus objections if a specific offer should be altered or removed. I think a version can be adapted to the English Misplaced Pages with the obligatory "checks and balances" which will prevent it from ever getting near your "in the long run" concerns. In any case, the content is always licensed under a free license; I consider it an interesting change to offer incentive to contribute to free media. Also in any case, the community can always change guidelines for the project. -- BRIAN0918  22:09, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

What about the other suggestion: users on their own pages or on article talk pages sticking a message with a link to paypal? I'd like to test it out to see what kind of response there would be :)  BRIAN0918  22:14, 26 July 2005 (UTC)

Oh lord. No, no, no! this kind of comment (basically pan-handling on the talk page) is not acceptable. It's one thing to offer a bounty if someone will write what you want; it's *very* different to use the talk pages to ask for it. The former is a controversial practice; the latter us utterly unacceptable. →Raul654 00:32, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

Why is it unacceptable, though? (in other words, give me some arguments that I can attack :) ) -- BRIAN0918  00:34, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Uh, Misplaced Pages is an encyclopedia, not a beggar's forum. →Raul654 00:36, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

Alright, how about this for the project: we start out with the same setup, except that the only forms of reimbursement have no monetary value, so these could include requesting a featured article on topic X in exchange for a featured article on topic Y (this form of payment is popular on the German project), if not featured then of a quality that is examined after-the-fact by the requestor/community, or requesting a translation of article X from/to language A in exchange for a translation of article Y from/to language B (also popular on the German project), or giving various Wikithanks/Barnstars for the work. In the meantime, we can discuss the expansion to monetary trades on the talk page. -- BRIAN0918  03:50, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

What you are describing is basically Misplaced Pages:WikiMoney accounts (and I had to search for several minutes to find it because it's very, very old) →Raul654 03:54, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

That was WikiMoney, this initial version would be WikiBarter. Consider it a "new beginning / revival", and if/when it eventually extends to monetary incentives, then see it take off. If you can give specific situations where you can see this (monetary incentive) being bad/abused, please do, it'll help in policy-shaping. If you can suggest some checks/balances, also please do. -- BRIAN0918  04:02, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Quite frankly, it sounds like what you are describing could be best implimented using a closed-form of wiki-money, where the central supply of "currency" is controlled by a third party - e.g, you cannot arbitrarily give yourself 100-million wiki-whatevers. Instead, someone (let's call him the banker) doles out the currency in some way and executes transactions when requested. →Raul654 04:06, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

I think this would work better as a barter system, eliminating the middle man. (a barter system in the sense that you do one service in exchange for another, but don't pass their request onto another person in exchange for another service). -- BRIAN0918  04:11, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

True, but as our barter article so clearly puts it - The disadvantage of using bilateral barter in the past was that it depended on the mutual coincidence of wants. Before any transaction could be undertaken, the needs of one person must mirror the needs of another person. That is, if you have a surplus of goats and need more wheat, you must find someone who has a surplus of wheat and needs more goats. To overcome this mutual coincidence problem, intermediaries developed that would store, trade, and warehouse commodities. In short, if you don't find someone who is capable of doing exactly what you want and whose needs you are capable of meeting, then the system fails, whereas the problem would be half as complex with wikimoney. →Raul654 04:16, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

Commons:Administrators RFA

Hi Raul654,

Can you take a look at Commons:Commons:Administrators. The voting there appears to be almost inactive, and given that the window for nominations is 7 days, it could probably benefit from a little more attention. -- Solipsist 06:30, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Well, I supported you, but beyond that, there's not a whole lot I can do -- I'm not a bureacrat on Commons. Villy (from the french wikipedia) is, and he's apparently inactive. His user page says to ask Andre Engels →Raul654 06:34, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

Sorry to walk into the middle of your conversation, but I've been blathering about the admin situation on commons for some time now to anyone who will listen. There is a potential vandalism problem brewing:

1. There are few admins on commons, around 100 as I recall.
2. Perhaps half of these are familiar names from en:.
3. Commons does not grant adminship merely because someone is an admin on en: and is active on commons. One must meet certain standards of activity in commons-specific areas.
4. It is a goal for images from commons to be used in en:, and ultimately this will end up happening with featured articles, the front page, and various other vandal magnets.
5. The usual means of dealing with vandalism to prominent articles, such as page protection, rollbacks, and blocks, are unavailable for commons images to the vast majority of en: admins.

The Uninvited Co., Inc. 14:20, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Hrmmmm..... →Raul654 17:49, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks Mark - looks like the ball is rolling now. My guess is that Commons hasn't quite got the critical mass for a spontaneous response. Unfortunately Villy appears to be away at the moment, otherwise I would have dropped him a note too - in fact Villy nominated my first FeaturedPicture on Commons shortly after the project was set up. Andre Engels appears to be handling the bureaucrat chores in the meantime. -- Solipsist 19:17, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Uninvited - I think I see what you mean. Its probably more of an issue on the smaller language wikis. It might be a good idea to check that at least one admin from each of the mediawiki projects is also be an admin on Commons. -- Solipsist 19:17, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Help

Hello Raul654 please help me in wikipedia. i am not new to[REDACTED] but need help in editing that article.--IDude 101 14:34, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

Erm, you're going to have to be specific. What article are you having problems on? What is your problem? →Raul654 17:51, July 27, 2005 (UTC)

Tags

I see that you removed a tag from Democratic peace theory. I fear that Ultramarine can be a disruptive user, and articles near him tend to acquire tags. You should see Criticisms of communism, on which he has put three. :) Septentrionalis 20:38, 27 July 2005 (UTC)

{{Toomanytags}}

They are becoming a blight to articles, especially when they are (ab)used like that. →Raul654 07:55, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

Daily-article-l

Hi Raul. User:Frazzydee phoned me a little while ago to say that his router is broken and that he'll be on vacation until August 1, so he needs someone to send out the daily article until that date. Could you possibly run it? Today's article is pending, as his router broke before he could send it out today. Thanks, Yelyos 01:48, July 28, 2005 (UTC)

Done. →Raul654 07:55, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

Solved

In order to save everyone time and so that AI can focus on the real world, AI has proposed a solution in Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/AI#Remedies :D --AI 01:57, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Plautus returns

Hi, Raul654! I'm so glad go be back! I'm so glad to see you're still here! I hope we can have a lot of fun helping each other out, buddy! Plautus satire 03:41, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Raul654, I have not even been back 1 day and already you're threatening me on my talk page! I am in schock! I thought you were better than that! Shame on you, Raul654, I wish you hadn't threatened me on my talk page on my first day back! Plautus satire 03:52, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Think of it not as a threat, but as an opportunity. I am giving you the opportunity not to demonstrate again why you were banned for a year, by giving you plenty of notice that we've gotten much better at removing people who make such edits. →Raul654 04:02, July 28, 2005 (UTC)

Stop threatening me, Raul654, why are you so mean to me! I've had about enough threats from you, I'm asking you one last time to stop threatening me! If you have a problem with my editions then let's collaborate, buddy, that's the way to do things, don't you know that!? Work together, pal, I just want to be friendly! Plautus satire 04:15, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Let's here it for collaboration! Yay! We can all work together! Woo hoo! Let's go, Raul654! No slackers! Plautus satire 04:17, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Yes, editing articles to improve them is a great thing. In fact, if I recall correctly from your last stay here, you did make (exactly) 3 beneficial edits (out of some 1300 edits). Perhaps it is time to increase that. 5, even 6 beneficial edits is not out of the question. →Raul654 04:28, July 28, 2005 (UTC)

This is patently absurd, Raul654, I made hundreds of beneficial editions! Thanks for your concern, have a nice day, ta-ta! Plautus satire 04:47, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Raul654, there's no reason to lie to get attention! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Plautus satire (talk • contribs) 04:47, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Ah, ok, then this is clearly a misunderstanding. When counting beneficial edits, I omitted the ones I did not consider beneficial (like ones calling Hubble an orbiting death ray laser). Once you take those away, you only made 3 useful edits. Your count is higher beause you're including those. →Raul654 04:51, July 28, 2005 (UTC)

Beneficial, no. Hilarious? Yes. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 07:31, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

Sorry if I came off as laughing at you or as trying to make a bad situation worse. I meant no offense, just noticing the lighter side of things. - A Man In Black (Talk | Contribs) 10:25, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Oh, no, I know exactly what you meant. Plautus's scribblings have definite comedy value, if you're not the one who has to pick up the pieces :P →Raul654 16:04, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

And now, the show we've all been waiting for... Plautus Satire 2: Special Edition! I probably won't be around much for this one, as I seem to have acquired a job and some new hobbies since he last graced us with his presence. Isomorphic 04:45, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Hi, Raul654! I'm so glad to be back! I can't wait to start correcting mistakes! Let's work together, buddy! Plautus satire 15:36, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Yes Plautus, we're all waiting with baited breath for you to make good contributions. →Raul654 15:56, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

I already have, buddy! Check the mask article! Woo-hoo! My count is almost doubled by your reckoning! Plautus satire 16:03, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

...indeed... →Raul654 16:06, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

Italian Renaissance as a featured article

Before getting to the substance of my comment, let me just thank you for all the work you've done for Misplaced Pages; users like you are such an asset to the project. I do have one minor critique to make, though... I noticed that you promoted Italian Renaissance to featured status, but at the time, I had an actionable (and in my view appropriate) objection. (Candidate page, with my comments) I objected to elevation to featured status on the grounds that there are stylistic issues in the article, missing commas, etc. I went through the first half, but haven't had time to fix the second half. At any rate, you probably just didn't see my objection; I'll do more to address it myself, but the style isn't up to par for our (rightly) high standards for featured articles. --Zantastik talk 17:51, 28 July 2005 (UTC)

I saw your objection (particularly the last one you made) and the problems didn't sound so serious so as to derail the nomination. That's why I promoted it. Unanimously approved nominations are great, but expecting unanimity is an unrealistic (if laudable) goal. →Raul654 07:53, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

I agree with your comments on the process -- unanamity is a laudable goal, but it cannot always be attained. Thus, I agree that it is ok if I object, I'm the only one, and my objection is overruled. However, I believe that my objection should be discussed, rebutted, etc, or at least commented upon before being overruled. I don't demand that I win; I only demand due process. As concerns the substance of my objection, take a look at this paragraph (glaring errors highlighted), and my corrections below:

The Renaissance style developed to its fullest at around 1500 in Rome. St. Peter's Basilica is the most notable building of the era. Originally planned by Donato Bramante, who was one of most prominent architects of the time, the building was influenced by almost all notable Renaissance artists, including Michelangelo and Giacomo della Porta. The beginning of the late Renaissance in 1550 was marked by the development of a new column order by Andrea Palladio. Colossal columns that were two or more stories tall decorated the facades.

The Renaissance style reached its height around 1500 in Rome, with St. Peter's Basilica representing perhaps the best well-known example of this particular school. Originally planned by Donato Bramante, one of most prominent architects of the time, the building was influenced by nearly all notable Renaissance artists, including Michelangelo and Giacomo della Porta. Furthermore, the late Renaissance (1550) saw the development of a new column order -- that of Andrea Palladio. St. Peter's Basilica's façade itself was decorated in colossal Paladian columns, some two stories tall.

Also,

this

As the Greek works were acquired, manuscripts found, libraries and museums formed, the age of the printing press was dawning. The works were translated from Greek and Latin into the contemporary modern languages throughout Europe finding a receptive audience. (especially that part)

should become this

While scholars and collectors rediscovered many Greek classics, Northern Italy was entering into a period a intellectual ferment: libraries and museums were founded, and the age of the press was dawning. This knowledge was spread in part by new translations of classical Greek and Latin works into modern European languages, enlarging the audience for these works (though this audience remained small, given the cost of books and widespread illiteracy)

I know you're very busy, but I just think that objections need to be addressed (even if later overruled, which is ok!), and that we need to maintain very high standards for the prose that hits our front page. Brilliant prose, after all, was the old name for featured article. Thank you for your time and for your work on Misplaced Pages. --Zantastik talk 22:11, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Talk:Creation science#Latest attempt

Would you please weigh in on my "Latest attempt" at ending this edit war and unprotecting the page. Even Bensaccount, who has been the most opposed to all previous versions, seems to like it. -- BRIAN0918  14:59, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

It looks good to me. I've unprotected the page. →Raul654 16:09, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

Plautus satire

I just got this Misplaced Pages email from this person. He probably sent it to countless others as well:

Please see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Plautus_satire&oldid=19863722#Troll_Mafia

Raul654 has unfairly had me banned from wikipedia. He has a personal agenda, and has banned me motivated purely by malice. If you are able to, please help reverse this ban and/or help me get Raul654 punished for his damaging and childish actions.

I also received this same email, probably since I voted to keep his photo in Misplaced Pages. I will print my response below. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 08:23, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Dear Plautus,

I checked the list of blocked users, and sure enough, you have been blocked forever. However, it was not Raul654 who performed this block. The list said User:Smoddy did so at 11:24, 29 July 2005. His reasoning was "ongoing disruption -- conflicting blocks -- this is actually Snowspinner's block." I am not sure what recourse you can do, but I would try to email Jimbo Wales himself. Smoddy also blocked two IP's of yours when you tried to edit. The whole block list can be seen at http://en.wikipedia.org/Special:Ipblocklist.

Regards,

Zachary Harden, Eagle Scout (BSA)

Vista, California

I received the same email, although I've had no interaction whatever with PS. It seems everything is in order and all is right with the world. Cheers, Fire Star 20:02, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Ditto. And I wager that, more than anyone else here, I have no idea what this is all about! El_C 20:41, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

I got no response so far, but it does not help I de-bunked all of his claims in my response. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 07:59, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Don't expect much. He tried a similiar stunt last February (he was blocked so he email many, many admins with the same form letter). User:Bcorr/Plautus documents what happened to Bcorr when he replied (Bcorr, whom I've met in real life, is actually a very sweet person). →Raul654 08:02, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

FYI: I also recieved the email, having had no previous involvment (only been an admin for a week). Seemed genuine but edit histories don't lie. My only comment is that edits like this (IMHO) are only going to fuel the fire. I know we all like a laugh and joke but in matters of banning I prefer a more formal tone. No offence meant of course, I don't know the full history of the dealings with user. Greg Robson 21:17, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

I also received one:

Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 18:28:46 GMT

Forgive me if this seems like spam, this is the only method I have available to seek redress in this situation. Raul654 has gotten my talk page protected so that I can not edit it, and no notice is put on the page to indicate that.

Please see:

http://en.wikipedia.org/search/?title=User_talk:Plautus_satire&oldid=19863722#Troll_Mafia

Raul654 has unfairly had me banned from wikipedia. He has a personal agenda, and has banned me motivated purely by malice. If you are able to, please help reverse this ban and/or help me get Raul654 punished for his damaging and childish actions.

--cesarb 21:46, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

To all those above who have no idea what is going on, Plautus is a crackpot and troll who was forcefully thrown out of[REDACTED] about a year ago. This is not the first time that he got banned and emailed large numbers of people begging to be unbanned. I've catalogued the whole sordid affair of Plautus's existance at user:Raul654/Plautus. This was the primary evidence against him when the arbcom banned him for a year. →Raul654 00:28, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

From what I gathered from the evidence, Raul broke into Platypuse's car, somehow. Not a good sign. El_C 00:37, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

I am now wondering if he was really banned or just blocked after returning from his one year ban. The evidence seems to support that he is habitually disruptive. Fire Star 05:19, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

He served out his ban in its entirety; no one is disputing that. But he started misbehaving almost the second he arrived back. I've updated user:Raul654/Plautus to include his recent misdeeds. →Raul654 05:21, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

He seems confrontational, to be sure. My question is, was he banned again by another committee's decision two days ago? Or did Smoddy just block him indefinitely when he started disrupting? Fire Star 05:53, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Plautus was re-blocked without any formal committee decision. The reason is (as snowspinner said in his block message) "Because we don't need this". In other words, it's crystal clear from his actions that Plautus has not reformed one iota and there is no sense in prolonging his stay here any more than necessary. Misplaced Pages:Misplaced Pages is not a bureacracy. Admins are expected to use good judgement, and Smoddy's judgement in this case was most solid. →Raul654 05:58, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

Agreed. Thanks for clearing that up for me. Fire Star 06:01, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

Everyking 3 RFArb

Hi Raul—did you mean to place your reply to Everyking's statement at the bottom of the talk page, or would it be better off right under his ultimatum? I didn't want to move the comment for you, since it's on an arbitration page. TenOfAllTrades(talk) 20:45, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

I replied at the bottom because he had just asked if the arbitrators were watching. If you want to move it up, I am fine with that too. →Raul654 20:48, July 29, 2005 (UTC)

Suburbs of Johannesburg

Hey there, I'm wondering why you listed Suburbs of Johannesburg as a former featured article candidate. When I looked at the page, there were four supports, one neutral, and one object that is inactionable and he never responded to my questions. I fixed the problems with the image, I just wasn't near a computer to reply to his comments. So as far as I can see, it should have passed without a problem. Would you mind explaining? Thanks! Páll 04:22, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

From RA

I don't know if you will care, but User:Michel Jackson Fan made an addition to WP:RA intended to demean you: . It has been removed. The only other edits from the account are to User talk:Lir, where he also made a personal attack against you, and which I see you already removed. Dragons flight 15:12, July 30, 2005 (UTC)

It saw it, reverted his only unreverted edit, and duly extended Lir's ban because it's quite obviously a sockpuppet of his. →Raul654 04:47, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

Idiots abound

This is really starting to piss me off, so I'm sure you would like to hear about it :) We start out with List of victims of the 1913 Great Lakes storm and List of General Slocum victims. The latter was VFD'd from Misplaced Pages, where they said to move it to Wikisource or Commons (since Commons does accept text). So, the former was moved to Wikisource as well. Now they are currently up for deletion at Wikisource, where people say to move it to Misplaced Pages or Commons. So, in the interim, they've been copied over to Commons. Now they are currently up for deletion at Commons, where people say it should be on Wikisource or Misplaced Pages. Now, they clearly shouldn't be on Wikisource, since they are user-compiled lists. Where do you think they should be? -- BRIAN0918  16:05, 30 July 2005 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages is not an indiscriminate collection of information - It's often sad when people die, but Misplaced Pages is not the place to honor them. Subjects of encyclopedia articles must have a claim to fame besides being fondly remembered by their friends and relatives.

If anywhere, I believe that lists of victims of disasters belong on Wikisource. On the other hand, I'm not even convinced it belongs there. →Raul654 04:46, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

{{TOCright}}

I have removed your nomination of TOCright from TFD on the grounds that it was kept with a 31 to 14 vote concluded just earlier this month: Misplaced Pages:Templates_for_deletion/TOCright. Further, unless something has changed, the MOS discussion also seems to have concluded that right-aligned TOCs were acceptable, albeit under limited circumstances: Misplaced Pages talk:Manual of Style#Template:TOCright. Dragons flight 09:24, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

Article Tony Blair TOC

Hi, I see you have reverted the TOC to non floating, being left below the intro. In general I think this is a sound layout principle, but I floated left in this case for 2 reasons. Firstly, someone had positioned it floated right, which placed it below the opening image and (to my POV) made the article completely inaccessible for the casual reader, particularly those browsing with low screen resolutions: there is no indication of the depth of content. Secondly, the intro for the Tony Blair article is much too long to have the TOC below it, again for the same reasons.

I think that either the intro needs to be shortened or the TOC floated left to bring it into effective view.

What are your thoughts? --Cactus.man 10:50, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

We should not be using either TOC left or TOC right -- mediawiki scripting forces a standard, which all articles should abide by. When I viewed the article (using Firefox in the classic Skin) it looked quite bad, and it looks fine now in either skin. →Raul654 19:42, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

You should have seen it with TOCright !! I still think the intro is too long for the present TOC position to be effective. I run Firefox, classic skin, at 1280x1024 and float left looks fine to me, but the standard TOC is way too low to be effective. I agree the standard is best followed by most articles, but most have a suitably succinct intro. The Blair one is over bloated IMHO. --Cactus.man 19:55, 31 July 2005 (UTC)

louisville promotion

You had promoted Louisville just a few hours after I'd made some additional critique. I think you should have allowed the nominators to reply to them and only promote after a day's lull. There were some pending issues that needed to be sorted out such as non-encyclopedic tone and ill chosen words. User:Nichalp/sg 18:55, July 31, 2005 (UTC)

Wales has no fixed office?

Wales has no fixed office? I can understand if his primary phone is mobile, but he does not have an office and desk at the Foundation assigned to him? Most executives need a desk to keep important papers in and stuff. And they have a phone handset. If Jimbo sits in a chair in an office, like President Bush does, and does not rearrange the furniture every week or something, then he _does_ have a fixed Lat/Long, just like Bush. If you do not want to talk about it, I can understand. Normally, you should just say "Let's not talk about that".

Giving an exact lattitude and longitude makes sense for fixed structures -- the Empire State Building, for example. On the other hand, for things that can move around (Jimbo obviously being one of them) is more than a little absurd, IMO. →Raul654 06:04, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

Oh, come on. It's not Jimbo we are talking about anyway. It is the chair that he sits in. Think about it: The President sits in a chair. Maybe the chair has been replaced. But the location has probably not changed in many decades. Yes, decades ago, we did not know the Lat/Long/Alt so precisely. The point is that Technology has progressed and now we do know those values more precisely. It is an entertaining and tangible symbol of Technological progress. If they have real meaning, then the extra digits are only a problem if they make you feel bad.

Think about it this way: Why did I hunt down and document Laura Nickel? On the face it, it was simply because it was on this list. Misplaced Pages:Articles requested for more than two years. But that is not the REAL reason, is it? What was my motivation? I found her, I emailed her and let her know of the page existed and asked for corrections. She replied. It was lovely, but why? It was because she represents progress. One person. Progress. There was some quote that I cannot find right now to the effect that Chemistry, at the start of the 20th century had a great ambition: extend the knowlege in the chemical Tables to the fourth decimal place. Not a great, creative breakthrough, but a tangible and ambitious goal that reverberated with some workers.

I'm sorry, but your comments still make no sense to me. "It's not Jimbo we are talking about anyway." - erm, yes it is. The article name quite clearly says Jimmy Wales. Setting aside the absurdity of giving longitude/latitude coordinates in someone's biography, the information itself is inherently inaccurate because Jimbo is not always at that location (he actually travels quite a bit - I know he's been to England, Germany, Israel, and India the last year alone). →Raul654 08:02, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

(Also, please sign your comments by putting ~~~~ at the end of them)

I was not clear: it is not about Jimbo. It is about the Office. Someday he will leave it and he will move on. The chair will stay there, unless the next guy does not want his cooties or something. They will get a new one, but but it will go that that office. It is a symbol of the whole Foundation and he currently occupies the Office. Am I turning the whole building into a Museum or a shrine? Maybe. Why not? We have the techonology. Maybe Wikipeida is important and historical. We are part of it. Again, we have the techonology. Use it. Enjoy it. It did not come cheap. If you get the chance travel to here: Ontario Science Centre. I liked it when I was a kid. It's cool. It's fun. That is why it is there. Amorrow 08:44, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

WP:FAC: Astrophysics Data System

Hi - I see you have just done your regular clear out of successful and failed FACs, and Astrophysics Data System didn't make the cut. Now for the special pleading :) As I see it, there was one unactionable objection, three supports, and a list of objections that User:Worldtraveller is working on (see his discussion with the objector on his talk page: indeed, he has been working on it today). Can this nomination be put back for a few days more, or speedily re-nominated? I think it is pretty good (but then I supported it already). -- ALoan (Talk) 17:12, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

• The article has only been on FAC for a week. Norman Borlaug took over 2 weeks to sort out the FAC objections. I think this one should definitely have more time, especially since the 2nd objection was only posted 3 days ago and is so easily fixed, and the nominator is actively working to resolve objections. -- BRIAN0918  17:29, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Brian makes a valid point, so I've gone ahead and restored the nom. →Raul654 17:58, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

Excellent - thanks. I don't usually second-guess your decisions, since you do such a good job, but for such a deserving candidate... :) -- ALoan (Talk) 18:36, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

I predict GNAA will take at least a month on FAC before it's accepted/rejected :)  BRIAN0918  18:18, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Please give Karada a chance

I have asked User:Karada to undo an unwise action he took in the past few hours. I do not know his schedule, but I would think that if he undoes what he did in, say, the next 24 hours, then no further action is required. What he did was to rename the page Linda Susan Boreman to Linda Lovelace. It is clear that Ms. Boreman would never have wanted that. That was not the correct thing to do. Use your judgement, and I think that you will see my point. Please visit: Talk:Linda_Lovelace

On second thought, give him 48 hours. One cannot expect adults to fix their own NPOV problems so quickly. I should know. Amorrow 18:47, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

On third thought, since what he did is completely in line with Misplaced Pages naming policy, lets just thank him for fixing a problem. Michael L. Kaufman 20:19, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

Please read this page: http://cla.calpoly.edu/~lcall/children.html and the next time you are in Japan, could you please stop by the Bank and clean up that messy old smudge? Just get a rag and some Lysol and keeping rubbing it until it is all gone. It will be so much cleaner and prettier then. Then that silly man can be just what we all want him to be: a nip that we nuked. It's got a catchy ring to it, huh? Amorrow 09:29, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

GNAA FAC

First, I like to apologize for Brain and Ta bu for causing headaches for the nomination process. Second, I think their nomination of the article is causing problems, since Ta bu was the one who did the last VFD vote, which also caused problems. And since they are objecting to every objection with inactionable, it is really hard for me to even the article. If this article comes up for FAC again, I will let you know days in advance. I also wish to know how long do I have to wait to renominate articles? Zscout370 (Sound Off) 20:21, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

• I would suggest simply tackling resolving the objections one at a time to the best of your abilities and let Raul make his final decision as to whether you've resolved them, since I highly doubt some of these objections will ever be lifted. -- BRIAN0918  20:32, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
  • I also tried to contact everyone in question, but some of the main objections, like Ambi, is leaving the project. The references have been pruned, images been copyright-ok'ed, added more sections (though my section about famous members have been removed). Of course, we need time to fix everything and that is why I created the To do list. Zscout370 (Sound Off) 20:39, 2 August 2005 (UTC)
    • You can probably take some of the contents of the Famous Members section and stick them in elsewhere. -- BRIAN0918  20:52, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

What the HELL is going on with that CUPS article?

What's this stupidity about not allowing a logo on the main page? The image chosen is totally inappropriate so I've removed it. - Ta bu shi da yu 23:38, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

Re Plautus satire message to Dieter Simon

Hi, Plautus, re your message to me, I would just like to put something into perspective here. Your statement in Mask: "Masks are also frequently used in snuff films, to protect identities and prevent prosecution", is rather a matter-of-fact statement, as if it were an accomplished fact. "Are also frequently used in snuff films"...? Can you really point to any facts, that is, verifiable facts here. If you have such evidence, you must be able to cite the sources of such facts. You cannot just make a bald statement such as this. Perhaps it might be beneficial to take a real look at Misplaced Pages:Cite sources. There are many websites referring to "snuff film" phenomenon, but as for real evidential substantiation, not really. Don't forget Internet downloads, often from news programs of videos depicting murders, are not "films in which people are allegedly killed on screen for the sole purpose of creating a saleable screen artifact", see Mark Kermode. Controversial statements need to be backed up by references.

Having said this, I would however also mention to Raul654 and others, that it is easy to call someone a troll or vandal, revert or ban them, when in fact some good advice such as above to the person concerned wouldn't have come amiss in first place. Was this advice ever given to him? I am also posting this to Raul's talk page. Dieter Simon 23:58, 2 August 2005 (UTC)

With respect, before giving me advice about how to handle Plautus, I suggest you familiarize yourself with his past wrongdoings. His edit to mask, inserting a fringe conspiracy theory and presenting it as an accepted fact, was the sine qua non in his arbitration case after which he was banned from[REDACTED] for a year. →Raul654 00:11, August 3, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, Raul, I see your point, and I appreciate what you're saying, as well as that you have unblocked him in the meantime. He had asked me by email, whether I could do anything about the blocking, and it was precisely with the point you are making in mind, that I was trying to put the above points to him that one of the important things we as Wikipedians should consider seriously, is that we should substantiate what we write. It would take the sting out of making what appears to be pretty blunt statements which would of course cause problems for all of us, if we were taken to task by critical readers. I have posted yesterday's advice on his user talk page. Many thanks. Dieter Simon 01:17, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

John Philip Sousa media

I'm not sure if you were the original uploader or not. If not, please ignore this. The sound files that were previously available have vanished (see Talk:John Philip Sousa). I wonder if you know where they went? To the commons maybe? Mirror Vax 02:07, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Look at the first thread on this page. Long story short - they got wiped out en masse along with some non-PD recordings. →Raul654 02:09, August 3, 2005 (UTC)

Ah, I see. Air Force recordings are PD, no doubt about that. However, the underlying composition (which is a separate copyright) may not be, if it was composed after 1920 or so. It looks like some of the files you uploaded were pure PD, and some were PD as to recording but not composition. Sousa is definitely PD and should not have been deleted. Mirror Vax 02:25, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes, indeed. It was quite clearly a case of throwing out the baby with the bathwater. →Raul654 02:26, August 3, 2005 (UTC)

Wow!

I have my own team of TBSDY explainers :-) Thanks! Ta bu shi da yu 04:21, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for your advice...

But you just prompted my response. Go look. Think about that the next time you chomp into a hot dog from 7-11. I had one this evening and it was very yummy. Amorrow 06:13, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

IRC

I'll do that then. 6:30-7:30 would probably be the best time. Everyking 08:31, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

That time works for me. →Raul654 08:33, August 3, 2005 (UTC)

I apologize; I went in at 5:30 but didn't see you around. After that I was too busy. Everyking 00:35, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Must have been on #Misplaced Pages Fred Bauder 00:41, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

That's what I meant, I went into #wikipedia at around 5:30...was I supposed to go somewhere else? Everyking 01:06, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

No, you went to the right place. Once you went there, I would have invited you into the arbcom channel. →Raul654 01:22, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

Well, we can always set up another time, although I understand if nobody wants to bother taking the chance again with someone who now has a reputation for neglecting his appointments...I should be able to talk pretty much any time tonight through to early tomorrow morning (I may take a nap, but if so it'll probably be a short one), and then I have work so it'll be some time before I can talk again. Everyking 02:50, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Ok, I'm on IRC right now. Come on when you get this message. →Raul654 02:53, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

DuPont hall

Yep, I go to UD as well. DuPont, (assuming you don't mean Lamont DuPont) is where User:Rydia is working now with Ahmad in the Envronmental/Civil engineering lab tracking groundwater movements of something. I don't know if you're there in the summer but I might check when I go to see my friend. It'd be interesting to meet a Arbitrator -- they must have special powers. You went to summer college too. I didn't know PhD students got offices... wow. gren グレン 12:43, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

No, I'm in the other Dupont (the one facing Gore hall) - 323 West Dupont. I say west with emphasis because if you go to East Dupont (the older part of the building) you'll never find me - the building is an architecture disaster. I'm there about 2-4 times per week in the summer (although my advisor is out of the country right now; there's an unofficial rule that when that happens, the graduate students can take a mini-vacation). If you plan to drop by, just let me know the day before or I may not be there. →Raul654 17:02, August 3, 2005 (UTC)

FPC promoted

Your Featured picture candidate has been promoted Your nomination for featured picture status, Image:Hippo skull dark.jpg, gained a consensus of support, and has been promoted. If you would like to nominate another image, please do so at Misplaced Pages:Featured picture candidates. ~~~~

-- Solipsist 20:33, 3 August 2005 (UTC)

I recommend a book to you

Battle Cry of Freedom: The Civil War Era by James M. McPherson (Ballantine Books, Reissue 1989) ISBN 0345359429

I sent a note to Prof. McPherson, explaining to him how important this book of his became in my life, but he did not reply. I may yet try again. If you have the time, and you have not already done so, please read it. It will increase your understanding of 19th Century military history. McPherson looks down, like a god, upon the battlefield, and some event catches his attention, and the next moment, you are down there with them in the struggle. The ease with which he browses over time and space is breathtaking, as is his profound mastery of the subject. Of course, you already know the ending, so the pleasure comes in vistas that are opened up while you are getting there.

I'm actually in the middle of a (particularly bad) book about the history of Islam right now (rather than a cogent narrative, it's mostly a collection of first person sources). After that, I have one on the battle of Okinawa to read :) →Raul654 00:12, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

Lend me your ears please

please read http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration#Update and see if it might hlep ,my cause. Gabrielsimon 03:52, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

EK?

While I'm happy that this RFAr is going to be solved amicably and sensibly, I was wondering how it pertains to the snide remarks made towards people other than Snowy. Radiant_>|< 12:47, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

In point of fact, it doesn't -- I asked Snowspinner point blank if he thought EK had a tendancy to abuse other people on the AN, and Snowspinner said no. →Raul654 14:01, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

Debate at Jonathan Sarfati with another admin

In this article there is currently a huge debate going on about whether this person "is a scientist", which an anonymous user and an administrator, Davidcannon, are in favor of stating, whereas myself and at least two other users are against it. I think we've thoroughly laid out our arguments, but this administrator is starting to piss me off, because he is simply calling our edits vandalism, and he is very closed to discussion: "Please do not delete data concerning his qualifications. I consider that to be vandalism, and will revert it." I'm in favor of saying he "is a former chemist", since he got his PhD in chemistry and did work in that field, but hasn't in 10+ years and is now a creation "scientist", which according to creation science and scientist, means he is not a scientist. My version is much less ambiguous, but the anon and admin are in favor of ambiguity. Heeeeeeelp! -- BRIAN0918  13:07, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

DualDisc Article

Hello! In regards to your FAC objection, I expanded the introduction quite a bit. I also made note of the changes on the FAC discussion page. If there's more you think the intro should have, please let me know. Cheers! --K1vsr (talk) 14:09, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

As noted on the FAC discussion page, I have now added an inline reference for the legal section as well as a list under the references section. --K1vsr (talk) 19:30, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

Lego-Prosthesis

For one thing, I'm fairly certain that the use of LEGO pieces in prosthetic hands is highly discouraged by any surgeons. Secondly, the anonymous IP creator of the article (user:192.77.198.12) has removed my speedy delete tags from the article two or three times by now, and made comments on the talk page that say, verbatim, "I wrote this article not you, so I should decide if it stays or goes." Can you speedy the article and ban the IP for disruptive behaviour? jglc | t | c 16:24, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

• Also, want to get together some time before I leave for school? I'll be gone by the weekend preceding the 21st, so within the next few weeks would be good. Leave me one on my talk page. jglc | t | c 16:26, 4 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Are you in the area? I thought you were still at Yale. →Raul654 16:39, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

University of Delaware

Thanks for your help in reorganizing this article! --Several Times 17:33, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

You're welcome. You don't, by any chance, happen to go there, do you? →Raul654 21:29, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

Creation science

FYI: FuelWagon is about to break 3RR. I don't even understand why he keeps reverting, since we were making progress on the talk page (well, I've been trying to make progress and he has been avoiding it). -- BRIAN0918  20:00, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Chicago, IL FAC Nomination

Hi, I was wondering why you moved Chicago to the archived section of the FAC list. The discussion on the page is still live, as there have been 2 more support votes since it was moved and work is being done to address to the objections, I had even responded to one of them today before realizing you had ended the voting. If we could have more time to work out the further objections it would be very much appreciated. Thanks, --Gpyoung  21:08, 4 August 2005 (UTC)

Erm, that page is already too big - waiting for every discussion to die down is unfeasable. I typically give each nom about 5-6 days on the page. If there's no consensus after that (and with the chicago nom, there wasn't) then I will fail the nom. →Raul654 21:27, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks ;-)

Tehe, thanks Raul. I'm glad to be back, and I hope to get back to work as well. Linuxbeak | Talk | Desk 21:49, August 4, 2005 (UTC)

Done with article disputes

Alright, I'm done with article disputes. We spent weeks crafting that lead section for Creation science, and now dumbasses are coming along and shitting out their mouths, refusing to listen to any discussion (as well as on Jonathan Sarfati), so I'm just letting you know (because I'm sure you care) I'm unwatching these various articles and letting them go down the crapper. I've got more important things to do at this time. -- BRIAN0918  03:01, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, appreciated

Re: Stonewall riots Earpol 05:11, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

You're welcome :) →Raul654 05:12, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

Homestead, Florida

+ Hi, I have a guy who's trying to add real estate spam and pov into this article. He's threatening to violate the 3rr rule. Would appreciate help and 3rd party mediation/arbitration. I may be in the wrong here. Thanks.--Muchosucko 20:40, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Disregard my message. dispute attended to by another admin--Muchosucko 21:23, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

If you have any more problems, you know where to find me; or, you could try the administrator's noticeboard for incidents, which is a page for reporting such problems. →Raul654 21:25, August 5, 2005 (UTC)

User:Raul654/Portraits/

An anon created User:Raul654/Portraits/ - I thought it best to let you deal with it as you see fit. violet/riga (t) 23:09, 5 August 2005 (UTC)

Interesting. I've deleted it. →Raul654 00:13, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

Atomic bombing and Operation Downfall

I am not so sure how to put this but will try. I know that I upset you by reverting your new changes to atomic bombing article and making new ones on operation downfall one. Apparently, we have disagreements, which is not a problem. But my problem is that I just wanted you to be reasonable. (I know you think I am the one who is not.) Please understand that I reverted repeatedly your new edit not because I disagree but because it was a kind of final wording we had reached after some discussion. We need to see what others have to say about your changes and I also think it would be unfair for the past contributors if we leave a new version. Put in another way, we can take some time and I don't think there is a pressing need to rush into a major (I think major) change. The poll at this point doesn't count; I don't know why it is so hard for you to wait to see if you can convince me or not (that yours is better). If not, we can have a poll or whatever. This is why I am not reinserting my edit at operation downfall. I think we can agree to stick to the old versions at least for a while. I want to be reasonable so I need you to be so too. -- Taku 04:05, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

I do not want to fight, but your edits are (with respect) flagarantly wrong. On the Atomic Bombings article, for example, you've been reverted by 3 editors besides myself.

The connection between the atomic bombings and the cancellation of the invasion is a rather straightforward one. I've already cited one source on the talk page which illustrates that the Atomic bomb was used in the hopes that it would cause Japan to surrender, and negate the need for an invasion.

Regarding Operation Downfall - I've replied to your comments on the talk page. You are removing what basically amounts to an undisputed historical fact on the basis that "some people disagree". The source you cited does not address the point in dispute ("why did japan surrender?") - it merely offers speculation on what would have happened if the atomic bomb had never been used and the soviets did not declare war. You need to supply a reputable source which says Japan *did* surrender for some reason other than the atomic bomb and the soviet declaration of war. I contend that such a source does not exist. →Raul654 05:27, August 6, 2005 (UTC)

Did you read my above comment at all? -- Taku 00:00, August 7, 2005 (UTC)

I wanted you to know that I reinserted my edit in Operation Downfall. -- Taku 04:00, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

Barnstar time!

Congratulations!

Mark, I am so pleased that you are helping Misplaced Pages so. I congratulate you for your latest Barnstar. Display it proudly! Amorrow 06:15, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Hurray! The War has FINALLY started!!!!

Come on down to Talk:Elizabeth_Morgan! We are having it out there! Fun! Oh my! Amorrow 06:15, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Grant would be proud of me

I am sure that they never saw it coming.

• http://home.earthlink.net/~amorrow/morgan.html
• User:Amorrow/Not_so_nice_Elizabeth

I am BEGGING you! tell me what to do! I do not wanna be mean to anyone. Almost anyone.

Amorrow 10:03, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

The Three Soldiers

Hello. I have uploaded your photo on commons.wikipedia with name Image:The Three Soldiers.jpg --Square87 12:38, 7 August 2005 (UTC)

I am having so much FUN!

Superm40, Tregoweth, and Nunh-huh. You should give them each a Barnstar or somethin'. Amorrow 06:15, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Thanks, Mark

I'm sure I'll need assistance.  :) Zoe 06:26, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

Big Bang theory

"In 1929, Edwin Hubble provided an observational basis for Lemaître's theory. Hubble proved that the spiral nebulae were galaxies and measured their distances by observing Cepheid variable stars. He discovered that the galaxies are receding in every direction at speeds (relative to the Earth) directly proportional to their distance. This fact is now known as Hubble's law (see Edwin Hubble: Mariner of the Nebulae by Edward Christianson)."

OK, I'm confused. I think you understand this... galaxies are receding in every direction at speeds (relative to the earth - what do this mean?) directly proportional to their distance (distance from what?) Do you have any ideas? - Ta bu shi da yu 08:49, 8 August 2005 (UTC)

Speed measurements are relative. If I'm driving down I-95 at 80 miles per hour, and the guy in the next lane over is driving at 75 miles per hour in the same direction, I would measure his speed as 5 miles per hour, whereas a guy on the ground would measure it as 75 miles per hour. His speed relative to me is 5 miles per hour, and his speed relative to the ground is 75 miles per hour.

The second point you are confused about is that the speeds are proportional to the distance from earth. Galaxies close to us are moving rather slowly, while the galaxies farthest from us (those at the edge of the observable universe) are traveling almost at the speed of light (relative to earth). →Raul654 16:19, August 8, 2005 (UTC)

Ah! I have rephrase it as "He discovered that, relative to the speed of the Earth, the galaxies are receding in every direction at speeds directly proportional to their distance from the earth." Feel free to revert if you feel that this is incorrect or less clear. - Ta bu shi da yu 03:56, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

The fact remains, Hubble discovered only a relation between Luminosity and Redshift. This was interpretted by others as a relation between 'distance' and 'velocity', solely because at the time there was no other known mechanisms for Redshift besides the 'Doppler' effect. Hubble fought against this poor interpretation of his data all his life, publishing books and papers about what he really discovered and explaining how others used his data wrongly, changing the relation into what is commonly know today as Hubbles law. If you go back to the foundations and compare what he actually discovered with current research in the field of plasma based redshifting mechanisms, his discovery is evidence for an entirely different interpretation of the universe. There is a big difference between a Luminosity/Redshift relation and a Distance/Velocity relation, as the latter is a biased interpretation of what Luminosity and Redshift mean, whereas the former is the actual empirical observation that Hubble discovered, completely independent of bias. At one time, the Big Bang article indeed was worded correctly, portraying what Hubble really discovered and the history behind how his discovery was only later wrongly used by others as 'evidence' for the BB. The removal and rewording of the entire Hubble history is just one reason out of many that the BB article should be removed from Featured status. --Ionized 19:12, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

Why the revert with no comments?

There was a great deal of work undone with a simple unexplained revert on Creation science. I have been attempting to provide a reasonable depiction of a position with which I vehemently disagree (writing for the enemy) because that position was unfairly characterized, IMO, and unsourced. In addition, there is language which states as indisputable fact that CS is pseudoscience, when even ID at least states it as the position of the scientific community. I believe that good science is best defended when it stands in open dialogue. The article, as it stands, presents a strawman depiction of the CS position, and that strikes me as exceedingly bad faith. Would you please at least explain your revert on the talk page? Parker Whittle 01:38, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Mark -- I feel that I was on the receiving end of a rather rude and heedless unexplained revert by you on the Creation science page. One of the editors with whom I was debating agreed that the action you took was inexplicable. I posted the above note soon after that occurred, and there has still been no comment. I believe, respectfully, that this deserves a timely response. --Parker Whittle 15:07, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

I reverted because your edits significantly degraded the quality of the article. In addition to wiping out Brian's introduction (which he spent about a week writing and rewrtiing to get others to agree to), you removed the most important problem with creationism (which is that basically *all* evidence presented by creationists is an attempt to bootstrap flaws in our understanding of evolution into evidence supporting creationism). And, by the way, unlike your version, the one I reverted to was not NPOV tagged. →Raul654 16:37, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks for responding. I was well aware of the work that Brian put into the article. In spite of that, his statements remained a gross mischaracterization of the arguments as actually put forth by creation scientists. I have provided appropriate sources for my argument, namely that creation science does not argue that refuting evolution constitutes a logical support for creationism. Instead, CS claims (however wrongheadedly) that since neither the naturalist nor the creationist position can be falsified, it is perfectly legitimate to conduct "science" under the assumption that the bible is a literal depiction of historical events. As yet, there have been no citations disputing my point. In addition to that, I thought that it might be a reasonable compromise merely to concisely state in the intro (with all appropriate qualifiers) what creation science was about, and allow the remainder of the article to represent the details of the controversy. As I argued, the position of science is extremely well represented in the article. Since then, FuelWagon and I reached a compromise where the scientific critique was reinserted into the introduction, according to the "write for the enemy" principle of fairness, as well as the point that the scientific consensus is the majority point of view. Brian was representing it as absolute fact, and that, as I read the NPOV policy, is not appropriate NPOV. Allow me to quote a message left by Dunc|☺ on FuelWagon's talk page:

I too feel that to follow NPOV policy, POVs must be attributed. In this case, that's fine. "Christian fundamentalists think it's science, the scientific community thinks it's pseudoscience because of its violation of basic rules of scientific method" is quite fair, in fact it allows a nice little appeal to authority to slip in. That said, I don't really want to get into an argument with someone who is attempting to represent the mainstream POV, because it just encourages the cretinists. Dunc|☺ 16:10, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

When I made my edits, I made my position clear: fairness and accuracy with the minority position, solid representation of majority position. Few editors seem to have taken my attempts at face value. Instead, they seem to be arguing around the points I'm making, perhaps under the assumption that I am not operating in good faith. It's understandable on their part -- it's a heated argument where cooler heads rarely prevail.

I'm operating in good faith here, attempting to correct a flawed, strawman representation of CS. I've provided a good defense of my argument, and have seen no evidence disputing my point; only veiled insinuations that I'm pretending. That's an unfair, ad hominem attack. All I ask is that my points be treated with fairness and dignity, and argued directly on their merits (or lack thereof), with adequate support.

Respectfully, Parker Whittle 18:20, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

Flag of India

Since the flag of India clashes with the anniversary, how about Aug 14th instead of 13th? User:Nichalp/sg 15:04, August 9, 2005 (UTC)

Thanks User:Nichalp/sg 13:26, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

You're welcome. →Raul654 17:39, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

Hi Raul,
I dont think there is any anniversary on August 14.Though, we have our Independnce Day on August 15.From the article The flag was unfurled for the first time as that of an independent country on 1947-08-15. I would really be grateful if you could make this the featured article for 15th of August. I believe that it would be tough to entertain so many requests but please do it if its possible.TIA Gaurav1146 15:16, 12 August 2005 (UTC)

The featured article is not supposed to conflict with selected anniversaries, which is why the 15th is not an option. In lieu of this, the 14th was the next best option. →Raul654 19:24, August 12, 2005 (UTC)

Vandalism

You have been blocked for vandalism. Er, OK, not really. ;-) Func( t, c ) 16:58, 9 August 2005 (UTC)

• Ah, Func, go easy on him! I've forgiven him, can't you?  ;) Interesting thing is that there's no way I could "revert" it, because if I revert it to 2, that means the counter has to go up... to 3! Ah, the conundrum! If a tree claps one hand, is it half full? The Literate Engineer 11:32, 10 August 2005 (UTC)
  • Haha! You have fallen into my trap! →Raul654 04:50, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

Update

"I have just lodged an RFA(r) against Alex, and wanted to give you the heads up, given our history together. Oh, and with regards to those rather insensitive comments left on your talk page... totally unacceptable. I've spoken to Lir about it, and I'm sure it won't happen again. Anyway, toodles."

- Marmot

Lucky6.9's adminship vote

Ed Poor has just removed Lucky's adminship application, stating that he didn't think Lucky made it. I don't really know Lucky all that well, though I did vote in his favour, but when I look at the vote itself, 71 votes in favour, and 78% approval, it looks to me like he made it, or if nothing else, that the vote should have been left open. Thoughts? Jayjg 00:11, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

I have a few, beginning with "I quit." This is gotten to the point of utter futility. Thanks to everyone who voted. - Lucky 6.9 00:16, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Looks like the nomination has been reposted. Just got an e-mail. Mark, can ya help a brudder? - Lucky 6.9 00:43, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Never mind. Another bureaucrat has pulled it. - Lucky 6.9 01:07, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I would have promoted. Sorry I'm a bit late getting back (family emergency) →Raul654 02:39, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

Nothing serious, I hope? Nevertheless, I thank you. You have been a pillar of strength for me throughout these last eighteen months or so from the time you welcomed me here. Your support is more important to me than I can express and I won't let you down. I do hope the emergency is under control. All the best, Lucky 6.9 04:33, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

No, nothing serious. His water heater broke and flooded the 1st floor of his apartment. He discovered it quickly and nothing was damaged, though, so it's all good. It's just a bit of an inconvience. →Raul654 04:57, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

Arbitration

Hey there. I just added my statement to -Ril-'s arbitration and I was wondering if you could see if I did it correctly. Never done one of these before. For instance, I wasn't sure if I should make myself an "involved party" or just a third party, and also whether it was okay to add a complaint unrelated to the initiating request. Okay, sorry for sounding stupid, and thanks for your help. Dmcdevit·t 05:06, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

Looks fine to me. →Raul654 17:41, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

Pic of the day

Hi Mark,

Just to let you know that your photo Image:Clivia miniata1.jpg will be up for Pic of the Day tomorrow. You can check the associated caption at Misplaced Pages:Picture of the day/August 11, 2005 — although there wasn't much to go on, so it somewhat pre-empts the article ;-)

Also Image:Split Aloe.jpg will be up on Saturday and, being a weekend, is likely to appear on the MainPage. The caption is at Misplaced Pages:Picture of the day/August 13, 2005. -- Solipsist 20:12, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

Sweet :) - I've been hoping to see one on the weekend. →Raul654 21:55, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

Image:Une571.jpg

Ass kissing not weclomed

Don't kiss my ass, you allready have made your opinion of me well known, . --Boothy443 | comhrÚ]] 22:23, 10 August 2005 (UTC)

I stand by both statements. While I don't agree with your comments on RFA, I think you've done a bang-up job in your article editing. →Raul654 22:33, August 10, 2005 (UTC)

Ralph Woodrow

This is up for deletion. I would like to have it kept as he is a significant critic of The Two Babylons, which if you remember was cited as a respectable source by User:Cheesedreams. Would you care to vote on the VfD? - Ta bu shi da yu 04:16, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Featured sound candidates

Please have a look at this proposal and comment on its talk page. Thanks.--Pharos 04:53, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Request for nicer version of an image.

Commons:Image:LOC_-_Jefferson_building.jpg is a nice picture, but it tilts a bit. I was trying to use Hugin to straighten out the projection, but the image is kind of small for that sort of manipulation. Do you have an larger, original version that I can futz around with? You can send it to me at my username at gmail.com. Thanks! grendel|khan 20:55, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

(Replied by email) →Raul654 22:11, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

That was fast. Damn, you're good. I'll see if I can return that favor... grendel|khan 23:06, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

It's been updated. grendel|khan 15:52, August 12, 2005 (UTC)

AI prohibited from CoS articles

And what is the reason for this based on what? --AI 21:56, 11 August 2005 (UTC)

Sorry, but arbitrators generally do not comment on on-going cases. We allow people to view the proposed decision as a courtesy. →Raul654 22:03, August 11, 2005 (UTC)

proposal for FPC

Raul, just wanted to let you know that I put up a little proposal on Misplaced Pages:Featured article candidates regarding making it more like Misplaced Pages:Featured picture candidates in that giving instructions on the page so that regular users can take part in upkeep on nominations that have passed the voting time, as well as listing a concrete time (barring extension for lack of votes etc...) that articles should be listed. As I see it there isn't really a reason why a person would need admin access or anything to do this but I may be wrong and if that's the case please comment on that and/or why it wouldn't be feasible and/or any reasons why it would or wouldn't work. Thanks. Jtkiefer ----- 00:16, August 12, 2005 (UTC)