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Hello and welcome to my Talk page!

1. If you start a conversation with me here, I'll usually reply here. I like to keep discussions in one place. So, if I've left a message on your Talk page, it may be best if we continue the discussion there. Of course, if you feel I've forgotten about you, please post a reminder here.
2. Occasionally, I may copy a discussion to what I feel is a more appropriate venue, particularly if I think it would benefit from other editors' input. If I do, I'll leave a link here so everyone can follow the thread.
3. Please start new conversations at the bottom of this page by clicking on the "new section" tab above.
4. I reserve the right to revert any edits to this page that I feel to be truly messed up.
   

Archive 1—Archive 2—Archive 3—Archive (N+1)
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Welcome!

Hello, SheffieldSteel, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Misplaced Pages
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• How to write a great article
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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Again, welcome! 

Xiner (talk, email) 03:55, 17 February 2007 (UTC)

Mind your own business

Where do you get off bugging me about an obscure phrase I used on somebody else's talk page in an attempt to calm them down over a month and a half ago. Get lost and find somebody else to harass. --Sapphic (talk) 21:50, 24 October 2008 (UTC)

The problem with insulting or attacking other users on another Talk page is that any editor might come along (as I did) and notice it. If the victim of the attack could never become aware of it, e.g. because you put the attack in an email, you'd have a case for saying it was "obscure" enough to be harmless, perhaps, but that wasn't the case with your remark - your every contribution on-wiki is a matter of permanent record. The warning was, in my opinion, quite justified according to policy. Note that accusing another editor of harassment without good cause may also be seen as a form of attack, but in the interests of resolving this, I'm going to let that one slide. SHEFFIELDSTEEL 00:59, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Gee, thanks for "letting it slide" there officer. Get off your high horse and stop sticking your nose where it isn't wanted, and stop looking for trouble where there isn't any. You're a janitor, not a cop. Go clean something up. --Sapphic (talk) 05:17, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Personally I have always had problems with the janitor metaphor. What is the analogue of blocking an editor? Taking out the trash? That seems rather disrespectful. Ironically, you do have the right to remain silent, and anything you say will be recorded and may be used in evidence against you.

Did you know that the origin of the word "policeman" is the same as that of the word "polite", and of "policy"? The common idea linking all of these is that in any large social group, there is a generally accepted way to behave. I'm sorry that you didn't appreciate being told that your remark fell outside those boundaries, but I really cannot understand why you feel the need to keep arguing about it. Warning editors for conduct which is outside of policy, whether WP:AGF, WP:NPOV, or whatever, is itself within policy.

As far as I'm concerned, this incident is over. How long you continue this discussion is up to you. SHEFFIELDSTEEL 17:15, 25 October 2008 (UTC)

Re: Jakezing

Hi SheffieldSteel. I noticed your comment in reply to mine on the AN/I thread about Jakezing. I am happy to let the incident rest with regards to his talk page rules, which I have now read - they are compliant, as far as I am concerned, although I am still a little worried about the one which refers to the fact that if you threaten him, he reserves the right to remove the edits. How do we go on if he vandalizes something? Some of the uw-vandal templates could be construed as a threat, such as uw-vandal4 -->

This is the last warning you will receive for your disruptive edits. If you vandalize Misplaced Pages again, you will be blocked from editing.

What I am still very concerned with is the edit which I linked in my post, to Chairhat's talk page, where he states that "threatning him is a fun way to wind up with broken bones and internal bleeding." A bit late for a warning I know, after 19 days, but I think we should still be a bit weary. Please reply here if you wish to, since I have your talk page on watch! Cheers and thanks, SheffieldSteel. Thor Malmjursson (talk) 17:15, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for posting. You have raised a good point - many editors interpret warning messages as threats. However, that is a misinterpretation, and I think that you, and I, and even Jakezing, understand the difference between "if you disrupt Misplaced Pages, you will be blocked" and "if you threaten me, you will end up with broken bones". But even if he does misinterpret a warning as a threat, he's entitled to remove it anyway, per WP:BLANKING, so there's no harm in allowing that form of words.

To defuse this situation on ANI, I had to write rules which walk the line between what policy allows, and what Jakezing wanted to say. I don't think a better set of rules can easily be suggested without causing further drama. As for the nasty threat... I'm inclined to let it go for now. This user's has enough admin attention for the time being, and I think they know it wasn't right. SHEFFIELDSTEEL 17:32, 26 October 2008 (UTC)

Indie Spotlight

We are the creators of the page Indie Spotlight and we are not editing but reverting back before the vandalizim took place as we were told to do so on the Wiki vandal page. We tried to post a call for help in the top pf article saying it was being vandalized but it was removed.--JMST (talk) 15:10, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for Hyperkraz block

Thanks for your prompt block of Hyperkraz based on vandalism to Obama page! Nice to get that little problem solved promptly. Thirdbeach (talk) 22:34, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

No problem, or as they say in these parts, you're welcome. SHEFFIELDSTEEL 00:20, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Question

do you really are slapped with a trout in an emergency? Or is it just figurative langangue?— Preceding unsigned comment added by Morefight (talk • contribs)

Hello, have we met before? SHEFFIELDSTEEL 18:42, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

not really. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Morefight (talk • contribs) 19:28, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, it's a figure of speech. Sometimes slapping someone in the face with a cold wet fish is the only way to get them to "wake up" to their silliness. More info at WP:TROUT. SHEFFIELDSTEEL 19:35, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

I am bs91rp why did your delete my comment on the 911 atacks on the discssion page

I am new to[REDACTED] and I do not realy know how to say stuff which people will not delete. All what I said is some facts about 911 because wikipedia,s infomation about 911 is not true.Bs91rp (talk) 21:23, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Replying on new user's talk page. SHEFFIELDSTEEL 21:24, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Block of DyingxToxLivexAgain

Fair enough on the block of this guy, i was expecting to do after his next edit anyway. Cheers--Jac16888 (talk) 00:26, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the support. I hope it works out. SHEFFIELDSTEEL 00:31, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Earl Pomeroy

Hello. Thank you for writing me and teaching me how to use wikipedia. What I don't understand is that I have cited from a newspaper a piece in the "controversy" section on Earl Pomeroy and it keeps getting removed. I didn't make this up. It was in the paper and I cited the article. Shouldn't they be spoken to if they are censoring things? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Octupus25 (talk • contribs) 18:33, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Replying on user's talk page. SHEFFIELDSTEEL 18:35, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

Earl Pomeroy Reply

OK, fair enough. I understand what you're saying. If you would like to rewrite the in forum I would have no problem with that. The article does say that Sand said something which was impossible for him to have said and the news source cited admits he can't recall Sand saying it. Pomeroy is quoted from an NY Times article as being for privitizing social security.

Thank you for your information. I do understand what you're saying now. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Octupus25 (talk • contribs) 20:09, 31 October 2008 (UTC)

trouting..

Hiya. I love your trouting userbox.. I've made a slight variation (a topbar icon) that does something fun. Take a look {{troutme}}   02:03, 1 November 2008 (UTC)

Reply on Floppy talk page

Please go here: http://en.wikipedia.org/Talk:Floppy_disk#Kibibytes.2C_and_so_on

We have consensus at ACORN

You indicated on the article Talk page that when we have consensus, you'll make the edit and remove full protection of the article. Here, Bali ultimate declared that he would always "mass revert" any and all edits by Marx0728 and myself. That's the only vote against Marx's proposed version. There are five votes in favor. That's consensus. You said it doesn't have to be unanimous. Please follow through on your promise, copy the version Marx has provided here, paste it into article mainspace, and remove the full protection. Thank you. WorkerBee74 (talk) 00:27, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

We do not have consensus on Acorn. I leave it up to you to take a gander at the talk page to see for yourself, the reasons for disagreement, and the number of people expressing disagreement (in my case i'm unhappy with a citation used to back up text that is not supported by the citation provided). To avoid fanning the flames any more with this fellow, I'll simply say that he is mischarecterizing my position and again, invited you to read through the talk page and the histories and make up your own mind. WB74 has prematurely declared "consensus" in the past.Bali ultimate (talk) 00:56, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Editor harassment

Look what User:Law Lord did right after the discussion/debate was over: . Flyer22 (talk) 21:58, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Oh. Leave this with me. Thanks for the info. SHEFFIELDSTEEL 22:00, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

I would not call that harassment. However, to avoid further conflict, I will stop writing on Flyer22's talk page, as I hope she will stop writing on mine. --Law Lord (talk) 22:02, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

It is harassment! No edit summary is needed when replying to someone on a talk page! Yes, stop writing on my talk page. I had already stopped writing on yours. If you wanted to avoid conflict, you would not have brought this second bogus crap to my talk page. You want me as an enemy here on Misplaced Pages? You are doing a brilliant job of cementing that. But if you dare start following me everywhere I go, believe me that I will not make it easy on you. Flyer22 (talk) 22:09, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

I think it's harassment. I've given Law Lord an appropriate warning. Please, both of you go and edit a random article or something, and leave each other alone. SHEFFIELDSTEEL 22:12, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

The warning is well-taken. Flyer22 wrote, "If you wanted to avoid conflict, you would not have brought this second bogus crap to my talk page. You want me as enemy here on Misplaced Pages? You are doing a brilliant job of cementing that. But if you dare start following me everywhere I go, believe me that I will not make it easy on you." I kind of see that as a threat? --Law Lord (talk) 22:15, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

See it as a threat all you want. It is what it is. What could I possibly do to you if you start following me around and continue harassing me, other than report it?

I'd also like to apologize to SheffieldSteel for being included in this mess. But I had to go to someone, and you were the best candidate, given being familiar with the discussion/debate we just had. I also feel it unfortunate for you to have been subjected to that, but glad that you participated. Flyer22 (talk) 22:19, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

• Law Lord, I do not think Flyer22's conduct so far merits any sanction, and your efforts in this regard are becoming increasingly counterproductive. I suggest you quit while you're ahead - just walk away from this.
• Flyer22, please remain civil, no matter how you feel about the editor you're talking to. I don't want to see anything from you that's provocative, baiting, or an attempt to "game the system" as far as Law Lord's conduct is concerned. Please go and edit productively somewhere, anywhere. There is a big and beautiful wiki world out there.

SHEFFIELDSTEEL 22:32, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

LOL. Okay, SheffieldSteel. Flyer22 (talk) 22:34, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Many thanks to SheffieldSteel for being so biased in your dealings as an administrator that one must really consider one's time here. Just leaving you that piece of feedback. --Law Lord (talk) 16:02, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm innocent, I swear!

Reply for ya on my talk page :) --Jaysweet (talk) 22:26, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

BTW, regarding the barking at each other we did on Talk:Barack Obama, I just want to say no hard feelings from this side. When I referred to "lazy ass administrators", I was sortof saying it tongue in cheek -- I know full well that it's not laziness that makes admins slow to block, and admittedly if I were an admin I probably would not have unilaterally blocked RonCram at that point. (Though I would try to get consensus among a group of admins to do so)

I also recognize the comments you were responding to were pretty close to the edge, and probably unlikely to do any good. I was frustrated, and decided to just vent. In my defense, I don't think I really did any damage -- I stand by the assertion that RonCram is extraordinarily unlikely to make any productive edits prior to Wednesday, and even though me calling him out is not going to change his mind, I don't think it's possible that it made him any more likely to continue his agitations.

But I admit if I were a totally neutral bystander, I probably would have told Jaysweet to please calm down and try to mind WP:CIV. --Jaysweet (talk) 22:36, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, from a personal perspective, I would have been happy to ban or block RonCram, but I just didn't feel their conduct was quite bad enough, and at this time, I'm very careful about not doing anything to appear biased. Thanks for saying this. I do appreciate it. SHEFFIELDSTEEL 22:39, 3 November 2008 (UTC)

Thunderbird2's disruptive editing

I've started compiling a RfCU and because I'm really busy with work at the moment I'm looking for some help with diffs to support the claims. I'll be adding some over the coming days. Fnagaton 05:39, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

MOSNUM

re Frankly, I'm surprised you'd post a link to that MOSNUM debate here. You really don't come out of it looking good. I don't understand this remark. What did you mean? Thunderbird2 (talk) 18:04, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Well, it seems clear to me that consensus was to go with the version of the guideline that was most consistent with our policies on verifiability and original research. The link to WP:DEADHORSE were already posted, so... if you can't see it, I don't think I can point it out to you. SHEFFIELDSTEEL 18:33, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

Your arguments about V and OR are valid ones, but I don't see where the consensus is documented. And I don't see the relevance of dead horse when there has never been a (civilised) debate in the first place. Or are you arguing that Greg_L's use of ridicule to gain support is legitimate? Thunderbird2 (talk) 18:44, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

I'm not arguing anything. SHEFFIELDSTEEL 18:47, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

I had the impression that you were arguing that there is consensus for the present wording. Was I mistaken? Thunderbird2 (talk) 07:45, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Thunderbird2 you know precisely where the consensus is demonstrated, stop asking questions that you know the answer to because it wastes the time of other editors. Also stop misrepresenting Greg by trying to use ad hominem instead of tackling the substance of arguments presented by him. The fact is you refused to give valid answers to questions directed to you and that is why your point of view was demonstrated to be weak and was refuted by the many other stronger arguments made in the talk archive where the consensus is demonstrated. Fnagaton 09:16, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

User:Universalsuffrage

Dear SheffieldSteel,

I think User:Universalsuffrage is causing disruption at Talk:September 11 attacks. He is needlessly starting discussions which isn't helping our 9/11 article. If he continues to disrupt, you should take some action against him.

Have a nice day. AdjustShift (talk) 09:55, 6 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks for the message. I will be keeping an eye out. SHEFFIELDSTEEL 15:31, 6 November 2008 (UTC)