Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 13:02, 24 January 2009

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Welcome!

Hello, RashersTierney, and welcome to Misplaced Pages! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are some pages that you might find helpful:

• The five pillars of Misplaced Pages
• Tutorial
• How to edit a page
• How to write a great article
• Manual of Style

I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your messages on discussion pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically insert your username and the date. If you need help, check out Misplaced Pages:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or ask your question on this page and then place {{helpme}} before the question. Again, welcome! As a patriot, I especially hope to see some good things on Ireland's history out of you. --Orange Mike | Talk 13:44, 22 April 2008 (UTC)

Speedy deletion of Tubrid

A tag has been placed on Tubrid requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done under section A1 of the criteria for speedy deletion, because it is a very short article providing little or no context to the reader. Please see Misplaced Pages:Stub for our minimum information standards for short articles. Also please note that articles must be on notable subjects and should provide references to reliable sources that verify their content.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the page that has been nominated for deletion (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would would render it more in conformance with Misplaced Pages's policies and guidelines. Lastly, please note that if the article does get deleted, you can contact one of these admins to request that a copy be emailed to you. Patar knight - /_{contributions} 21:58, 21 April 2008 (UTC)

Image Copyright

{{helpme}} I have an image of a photograph from an Irish newspaper, dated 1921 and need some help deciding on copyright matters. When that has been decided I could do with some assistance posting it to a page I'm working on. In the meantime I'll continue to read on these matters. RashersTierney (talk) 18:33, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Hello Rashers, unfortunately uploading images still confuses me and I cannot help you on this. Don't feel bad for not being unable to do so, you will pick it - hopefully quicker than me! However once you have the images successfully uploaded I can happily assist you with placing it on an article; that I can do! Please leave a message at my talk page when the photo is uploaded. I have left the message on your Talk Page so others can assist, and if there is anything please message me or go to Help Desk. Adam (Manors) 18:45, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

From what I can tell in going through Irish copyright law (see here, keep hitting "next" to read the whole chapter), the copyright for the photo should expire 70 years after the author's death. If you can find some sort of evidence showing when the photographer died, that should give you an idea of when the copyright will expire. If it already has (he died before January 1, 1938), then you can upload it with the tag {{PD-Ireland}} to show that it is in the public domain. If not, you'll have to upload it under a claim of fair use, and make a note of when the copyright is set to expire in your rationale. As I'm not 100% on this, you may be best off asking again at Misplaced Pages talk:Copyright problems, but I'm fairly sure that's the answer they'll give. Once it's uploaded, see Help:Images for how to add it to an article. Hope this helps. Hersfold 19:04, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

Many thanks for replies. I've posted this question at Misplaced Pages:Media copyright questions and am hoping for further guidance there.

Image copyright problem with Image:District Inspector Gilbert Norman Potter.JPG

Thank you for uploading Image:District Inspector Gilbert Norman Potter.JPG. However, it currently is missing information on its copyright status. Misplaced Pages takes copyright very seriously. It may be deleted soon, unless we can determine the license and the source of the image. If you know this information, then you can add a copyright tag to the image description page.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask them at the media copyright questions page. Thanks again for your cooperation. Polly (Parrot) 22:00, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

I finally succeeded in adding a Non-free historic image tag to the photo, and hope this suffices for the purpose of including in in a page I am working on.

Orphaned non-free media (Image:District Inspector Gilbert Norman Potter.JPG)

Thanks for uploading Image:District Inspector Gilbert Norman Potter.JPG. The media description page currently specifies that it is non-free and may only be used on Misplaced Pages under a claim of fair use. However, it is currently orphaned, meaning that it is not used in any articles on Misplaced Pages. If the media was previously in an article, please go to the article and see why it was removed. You may add it back if you think that that will be useful. However, please note that media for which a replacement could be created are not acceptable for use on Misplaced Pages (see our policy for non-free media).

If you have uploaded other unlicensed media, please check whether they're used in any articles or not. You can find a list of 'image' pages you have edited by clicking on the "my contributions" link (it is located at the very top of any Misplaced Pages page when you are logged in), and then selecting "Image" from the dropdown box. Note that all non-free media not used in any articles will be deleted after seven days, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. Thank you. BJBot (talk) 12:21, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Gilbert Potter picture

You have to provide a fair use rationale for it. I'm not entirely sure, having not dealt with too many images myself, but try Help:Image page for more information. Hope that helps! --Patar knight - /_{contributions} 02:32, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Good to see that. Hope you become a regular here. --Patar knight - /_{contributions} 19:07, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Caher

Hi. I understand the comment about "needing a sit down when that was removed". I appreciate that some work/research went into that. As noted, however, it wasn't quite right for the context. What you might consider instead is adding a note or two in the Place names in Irish article about "places starting with Caher-" and explain the etymology. Again, I wouldn't list every place that happens to have Caher in it, but it might be a way to salvage some of your research. Guliolopez (talk) 23:44, 27 April 2008 (UTC)

Geoffrey Keating as Gael at Ballylooby

Hey Rashers, I never meant to infer his ethnicity or nationality. A gaelic historian is a historian of gaelic stuff. Gaelic is a disambiguation page, so should refer to it. I changed it to Gaels as I believed that he was someone wo studied/wrote the history of the Gaels. Either way, "Gaelic" can mean upto 18 things, I just picked one. Bogger (talk) 16:31, 6 June 2008 (UTC)
I understand, I just don't think you picked the most appropriate one. It makes a difference.RashersTierney (talk) 16:37, 6 June 2008 (UTC)

Hindu-German conspiracy

Hello Rashers, I wanted to thank you for your input to the Hindu-German conspiracy. Please feel free to invite as many authors as you see suitable, not least because I agree the article needs ironing out for a number of points, and I am beginning to feel WP:BALANCE maybe one of them. I will mention though that I have left a message on the talk page, which may serve as a caveat to the way forward. Nonetheless, I would tremendously appreciate input from others.] (] · ]) 01:10, 9 August 2008 (UTC)

NPOV

Please be careful to use language which is appropriate to the WP:NPOV guidelines. The description just added for the "Ballad of Clonmel" contains does not meet the guildelines. ("great", "haunting", etc). Guliolopez (talk) 16:40, 16 August 2008 (UTC)

Motorcycling Wikiproject

Welcome to the Motorcycling WikiProject. Hopefully you have a good time, start many new articles and can contribute lots to the existing ones as we need that. Cheers ww2censor (talk) 00:34, 25 August 2008 (UTC)

Notability of Andrew Belton (Kaid)

A tag has been placed on Andrew Belton (Kaid) requesting that it be speedily deleted from Misplaced Pages. This has been done because the article, which appears to be about a real person, organization (band, club, company, etc.), or web content, does not indicate how or why the subject is notable: that is, why an article about that subject should be included in an encyclopedia. Under the criteria for speedy deletion, articles that do not indicate the subject's importance or significance may be deleted at any time. Please see the guidelines for what is generally accepted as notable. If this is the first page that you have created, then you should read the guide to writing your first article.

If you think that you can assert the notability of the subject, you may contest the deletion by adding {{hangon}} to the top of the article (just below the existing speedy deletion or "db" tag), coupled with adding a note on the article's talk page explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for speedy deletion, if the article meets the criterion it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the article that would confirm the subject's notability under Misplaced Pages guidelines.

For guidelines on specific types of articles, you may want to check out our criteria for biographies, for web sites, for bands, or for companies. Feel free to leave a note on my talk page if you have any questions about this. — 72.75.110.31 (talk) 18:13, 28 October 2008 (UTC)

Darrell Figgis

Hi, I notice you've been doing quite a bit of work on Figgis on wikipedia, I'm doing quite a bit of work on him myself aswell but I'm afraid I'm not really up to all this computer business and editing articles. I've got some photos that might add to the page (his autograph, his grave, and his old house in london) is there somehow I might be able to send them to you and perhaps you could put them in as you see fit? --Biggles85 (talk) 19:46, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

Hi Biggles, Would be very happy to help out with images for the Darrell Figgis page. The question of copyright is always an issue with images, so if they are pictures you took yourself, it would mean giving me permission to put them in the public domain. If you don't think you're up to posting them directly - and rather than potentially loose them - you can forward them. RashersTierney (talk) 22:22, 29 October 2008 (UTC)

I've emailed them onto you there, thanks a million for that! 213.94.236.210 (talk) 14:33, 30 October 2008 (UTC)

Romanians

Ah! I guess I figured that was your intent, and it seems we fully agree. You may want to check out the talk page for the article: months ago, one user argued, against the fabric of common sense, that such a tag was necessary, and another two decided to humor him (the majority, me included, was against). If they add it back, I'm seriously thinking about adding distinguish tags for "Manians", "Manian", "Omanians", and, of course, "Romulan". Dahn (talk) 14:49, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

If it comes up again, you will have my full support. If we begin to make such distinctions then logically all possibilities must be considered. RashersTierney (talk) 14:55, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Progress on the Manual of Style?

Please see Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(Ireland-related_articles)/Ireland_disambiguation_task_force#Task_Force_terms_of_reference and in particular the subsection Compromise Proposal. -- Evertype·✆ 21:06, 18 November 2008 (UTC)

Thank you

Thanks for reverting the edits on my userpage Rashers. As it happens, I had actually made them myself, I just forgot to sign in before doing so (have a horrible habit of doing that)! Still, major kudos for being so vigiliant, its very impressive :) ANB (talk) 16:05, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Ethnic group

I would be glad to see you put this page on your watchlist and contribute. On the talk page you took objection to a particular sentence or two. I think you are absolutely right and I think several other contributors to the article would agree too. There are only two editors to my knowledge who have argued otherwise: DAB:

because "identity" doesn't make for an ethnic group. It's necessary, but not sufficient. Only endogamy (and hence shared ancestry) is. Otherwise, the hippies would be an ethnic group, just as much as the Emos, the Trekkies and the trainspotters. Of course culture can shape ethnicity. By shaping marriage customs, and hence the ancestry of future generations. I really don't see the problem. dab (𒁳) 20:10, 28 July 2008 (UTC)

and Epf:

"Kinship and descent is one of the major concepts of cultural anthropology. Cultures worldwide possess a wide range of systems of tracking kinship and descent. Anthropologists break these down into simple concepts which are common among many different cultures."

Examples of systems tracking Kinship and Descent:

Descent Group; The Nuclear FamilyLineages; Clans, Phratries and Moieties

All of these along with Kinship calculation (various genealogical resources) help to trace and claim the common descent of many ethnic groups. Epf 15:31, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

A number of people have argued quite a bit on the talk page against or around these views. It would be very good to have a fresh voice. And add all the Stuart Hall you want! Slrubenstein | Talk 22:48, 22 November 2008 (UTC)

Helpme

{{helpme}} Getting into a bit of a mess with Categories.

Could you be a bit more specific? //roux   14:00, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Thanks Roux. I'm trying to create a sub-category 'Bagwells of Marlfield' of 'Category:Political families of Ireland', and slot Richard Bagwell and John Philip Bagwell in. Also to link to other Bagwell 'lists'. I seem to be inadvertently creating pages rather than Cats. If thats not too clear I'll explain further. RashersTierney (talk) 14:18, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Hiya. What you want to do is visit this page, which outlines the whole process for creating categories. Cheers. //roux   14:26, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

OK, thanks. RashersTierney (talk) 14:28, 25 November 2008 (UTC)

Romani MOS

RT, I share your view that some universal style guideline for Romani-related WP articles in necessary. Talk:Romani language#Request for Comment: Romani, Romany, Roma was an attempt by me to also prompt the formulation of a consensus of this matter, so that we could collectively move on and get down to improving the content of the articles. Note that my position has shifted since the summer, and I am much more clearly in favour now of Romani over the other alternatives. This is based on my better familiarising myself with sources and issues in Romani studies scholarship. Regards, Zalktis (talk) 12:43, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Very glad to see that the process of consensus-building works. From following the development of the Misplaced Pages:Manual of Style (Ireland-related articles), these things are not easy, but vitally important if Misplaced Pages is to be coherent and consistent. RashersTierney (talk) 12:50, 3 December 2008 (UTC)

Ireland naming dispute compromise proposal

You may be interested in an all-encompassing compromise proposal tabled in respect of the Ireland naming dispute at http://en.wikipedia.org/Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(Ireland-related_articles)/Ireland_disambiguation_task_force#Appeal_for_an_all-encompassing_solution Mooretwin (talk) 13:16, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Interested? I've already responded! RashersTierney (talk) 13:22, 5 December 2008 (UTC)

Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Ireland article names

An Arbitration case has been opened, and is located here. Please add any evidence you may wish the Arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Ireland article names/Evidence. Please submit your evidence within one week, if possible. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, Misplaced Pages:Requests for arbitration/Ireland article names/Workshop. -- Evertype·✆ 20:52, 13 December 2008 (UTC)

John Devoy & Foreign Legion

Thanks for the answer to my question. V. Joe (talk) 22:24, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

Will you post to the Talk:Republic of Ireland page

Hi, will you post the link to the Talk page? And probably no harm is also posting to the WP:IDTF also. --HighKing (talk) 13:32, 7 January 2009 (UTC)

Dog's dinner

"At the moment this page is a dog's dinner?" LOL! What is your native language? --Born2cycle (talk) 01:39, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Bog standard English most of the time. Occasionally, when least expected, expression may soar on the the tips of angel's wings to the dizzy heights of Hiberno-English. RashersTierney (talk) 01:48, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

How odd. Never knew that expression can have the opposite meaning of what I intended. RashersTierney (talk) 13:17, 10 January 2009 (UTC)

Re: External Links

Re your message: I removed it because I felt that the link was not particularly helpful in explaining or expanding upon the issue of currency tracking. The patent explains a system of currency tracking, but no actual link to anything usable by readers of Misplaced Pages, unlike the other links listed in that section. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 19:22, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

I see your point to a degree. Perhaps some mention of surveillance implications within the body of the article could link to this as a reference? RashersTierney (talk) 19:26, 11 January 2009 (UTC)

Adding a section on the surveillance implications would be fine, but I think you would need to find a better source than the patent application. The patent application is not a third-party source and is too technically dense for a good reference. -- Gogo Dodo (talk) 06:44, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Ireland - country or state?

The island of Ireland is not a country it is an island, just like Borneo, Honshu, Java.... The island is made up of the country of Ireland and the constitute country of Northern Ireland. There is also really no difference between the definition of "country" or "state" when it comes to defining a sovereign country. The difference is that the definition of the word "state" does have an alternative meaning. Not only does it have alternative meaning but millions of people in the world have a different primary understanding of the meaning of the term. In many countries, including several large countries, the use of the word "state" has the primary meaning of a territory within a federation. Since part of this whole Ireland debate is the need to include or exclude terms on the "claim" that they are needed (or not) to make things clear to the reader who is not aware of the situation in Ireland (primarily people outside Ireland & UK). If that is really the reason for this whole thing then I find it kind of ironic that you would then use "state" instead of "country" when the word "state" is ambiguous to the same readers that people have been fighting for such a long time to make sure the article is clear for them. --T*85 (talk) 21:49, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

FYI see state and country. RashersTierney (talk) 00:00, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

What exactly are you trying show me? Are you really trying to say that the island of Ireland is a country & the state of Ireland is not a country? (which it says in the very first line of the Republic of Ireland article) Because if you are, then even those two articles (which I have read before) do not back up that claim. I am not trying to be an ass here, just curious where you are getting your logic from.

Oxford dictionary

• Country: "a nation with its own government, occupying a particular territory"
• State: "a nation or territory considered as an organized political community under one government."

"A State (note the capital "S") is a self-governing political entity. The term State can be used interchangeably with country." (from ref used in wiki Country article)

"Examples of entities that are not countries include: Hong Kong, Bermuda, Greenland, Puerto Rico, and most notably the constituent parts of the United Kingdom. (Northern Ireland, Wales, Scotland, and England are not countries.)"--T*85 (talk) 00:44, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

I expect neither of us is being an ass, we have different understandings of what those words mean. I am familiar with the use of the word 'State' to mean something precise and having the characteristic of sovereignty. My understanding of 'Country' is as something more amorphous, more of poets than lawyers. I know the words are often used interchangeable, but 'State' for me has associations of 'institutions of authority' and very precisely defined territory that country doesn't. RashersTierney (talk) 01:08, 13 January 2009 (UTC)

Roma (people)

B2C has now gone an done a "bold" move to Roma (Romani subgroup) without consensus. I'm also on the verge of giving up my engagement with Romani issues once again. One tries to be constructive, one bones up on the shcolarly literature, arms oneself with refs, but to no avail, it seems. And I thought Baltic topics were nerve-wrackingI I supposed you get the same with Irish topics, though, too. Anyhow, your efforts are appreciated, even if we haven't always agreed. —Zalktis (talk) 10:02, 14 January 2009 (UTC)

Propagandistic image?

I doubt that this image maight be regarded as "propagandistic". Propaganda for the benefit of who? For the benefit of the National Socialism? I strongly doubt it. The Nazis propagandized a restrained attitude toward the stores of the Jewes and other "inferior peoples". This image contradichts with thies principles. The reality is another one: formerly, in Romania the entire commerce with flowers was in the hands of the Roma. If you wanted to buy flowers, you could do it only from the Roma. --Olahus (talk) 15:10, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

What is the narrative behind the use of this image on Misplaced Pages? That Roma had a monopoly on the retail of flowers during the second world war? Where was this image first published? By whom? For what purpose? If you think the use of this image on Misplaced Pages is unproblematic just because it is historically 'true' (and who knows if it has not been manipulated), then I am surprised, to say the least. See WP:CAP RashersTierney (talk) 15:21, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

If you do believe that they are dubious intentions behind the picture, please elucidate them. Until now I couldn't find anything wrong. The informations about the image can be readed in the description of the page. Sure, the image was taken in 1941, but this prooves nothing. See here a picture with a Lipovan made in Romania by the same photographer. Is this picture propagandistic too? And what about this picture made in Romania by the same photographer. Where do you see the propaganda? --Olahus (talk) 17:57, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I have no idea what the intentions of the photographer, editor or anyone else associated with these images were in 1941. But the uncritical repetition of this Nazi-era image and caption is not above question, and its relevance to the article, just like the other images, has not been demonstrated. It is for the poster to demonstrate relevance to the article. You can't just drop in images without showing relevance.RashersTierney (talk) 18:08, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

I think this picture, showing flower-selling Roma, is more relevant than any other picture in the article. --Olahus (talk) 18:14, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Thats only your POV, until you demonstrate its relevance to the article sufficiently for it to be included. Why not a picture of five Roma men with buckets on their heads? RashersTierney (talk) 22:05, 19 January 2009 (UTC)

Dunmanway massacre

Hi, I've noticed your edits to subjects around 1920s in Ireland and I'd appreciate your opinion at Dunmanway Massacre article. There are a few issues around refs, layout and tone and we'd be grateful for some fresh eyes, if you have time. See the talk page for (extremely!) lengthy discussion of the issues.

Cheers Jdorney (talk) 13:02, 24 January 2009 (UTC)