Misplaced Pages

Revision as of 17:57, 2 November 2005

(I finally figured out it was the "/" on the end of the URL that was messing up my standards links...) ] 14:22, 25 Sep 2004 (UTC)

New external link

Re: the new external link (to the German breeder) - is it getting towards being advertising? Nickj (t) 23:07, 19 Feb 2005 (UTC)

Cleanup

• I did a little bit myself, but more needs to be done. Praetorian42 14:54, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

• I do not think this article needs be cleaned up, but that's just my opinion. I did remove the tag becuase it was interferring with the article. It was partially blocked by the picture and made the article look bad. I have no problem with discussing tis first, but Prae made some big changes and blanked large parts of the article out. I don't think the article is too long, I really don't. So I think we need to discuss any future edits like this here first. No hard feelings.Gator1 15:53, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

• The notice didn't interfere with anything on my computer. It's probably just your browser. That's where notices go, and if you disagree with notices being placed in articles, you should see Misplaced Pages:Template messages. Don't remove notices unless the reason the notice was placed has been rectified by common consensus (IE: More than just your opinion). I don't think you can argue this-- the content of the old article is unencyclopedic. The behavioral section was just the ramblings of someone describing the activity of a particular cat (and doing so in an unprofessional manner). For more on why the quality of the article needs to be increased, see Wikipedia_talk:Template_messages/Cleanup. It has nothing to do with length, but quality (specifically point of view and professionalism). Also, it is in need of copy editing as there are several misplaced modifiers, comma splices and awkward sentences- many of which I fixed but you reverted without even checking. There are also factual errors ("naturally occurring one from New England" -- Domestic animals are never "naturally occuring") which you also reverted. For a model article see Siamese (cat). Praetorian42 16:35, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

• I fixed the problem with the notice box overlapping the breed box (It was in IE 6 Only). I just wrapped it in a div. Praetorian42 16:48, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

• If the notice is just on my computer, I can accept that, but I must immediately tak eissue withone ting. I'm not sure if you know much about the COon, but is was oirigianlly anaturally occurring bred. Unlike most other breeds, the original traits were NATURALLY occuring and were not bred in with selective breeding. You are jsut plain wriong on this one and I must revert. I have nver seen you on this page before, and, frankly, you are being abit presumptious by coming in hre and making alot of major changes without consuting with people who know the subject matter. While the current traits are kept a part of the bred by selective breeding, they origanlly ocurred through natural processes as the breed relaly did adapt itslef ot Maine/New Engladn winters.

• As far as the edits to the behavrial seciton, I will admit that it needs some editing, but simply blanking out th eentire thing is a little much. The fact is I have a Coon and mnay if not all of the things that were ont here were DEAD on what our cat does, so it's not just some crazy person's ramblings. please discuss here first befroe making any more changes. Please.Gator1 17:50, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

• I would like to see how toerh peoplef eel here. I've beena littl while and no one has ever commented on how the article needed so much work (see below). Let me clarify my point on th naturally occurring language. yes, the breed is a domesticated cat, but for a long time, the characterstics of the cat were nturally bred in. The bushy undercoat is great for keeping their bellies of th snow, but thweir back has short hair, so that it doesn't get too tangled int he brush. The mere fact that this cat can do great in Maine winters is evidence of th e fact that these characteristics were naturally bred in before they were preserved through selective breeding. Your blanket statement that Domestic animals are never 'naturally occuring'" is simply not true. Many of these cats are feral and many of the above described traits were not created by man originally. I think the modified language fairly and accurately combines both of our edits and I hope you se tht and don't start an edit war on a page you've never spent any real time on. Thanks.Gator1 18:04, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

• With respect, the fact that a user is new to a page is no basis to complain about thier edits. It is the nature of Misplaced Pages that anyone can edit as they see fit. The inclusion of the tag and the copy editing were entirely valid.

The article clearly did need some cleaning up. It's making more sense now. "The breed has naturally occurring features" didn't really mean anything - all species have naturally occuring features. TheMadBaron 18:46, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

• Final point, (I swear) after all your edits, do you sitll really feel the tag is necessary? If so, what do you think this needs to remove the tag? I for one vote to remove it now that you've made significant edits and I hope that others will join me so that we can get that consensus you had mentioned.Gator1 18:07, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

• That's much better. The fact is that the breed is not "naturally occurring," but has "naturally adapted" meaning that the species is a domesticated animal, and its appearance somewhere can never be natural, but what the cat adapts into can indeed be natural. The article could still stand to be improved a bit, so I'm going to leave the tag up for another couple of days to see if anyone else has anything to add/change. Praetorian42 19:47, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Instead of simply declaring that "he article could still stand to be improved a bit" and leaving the tag there. Why don't you let us all in on the secret and tell us HOW or just make the edits yourself, ou weren't shy before. Please! Why do we have to guess at what you think is wrong with it? (Not a rhetorical question). I think it's a really good piece now and while nothing is perfect I think enough work has been done on it to remove your tag. But if I do you will put it back and get mad, so just tell us what you think should be done or edit what needs to be done to your satisfaction. Thanks for all your work, believe it or not I do appreciate thatsomeone else is putting their time into the article, as evidenced by the fact that I've not challenged/ reverted almost all of your edits. please just let us in on what you think is wrong now so we cna move on insread of waiting an arbitrary period of time.

Again, no disrespect intended, but it sounds to me like you're being a little overly protective of 'your' article. I think it could benefit from further editing, and that the tag should stay, for now.

For a start, what does "Cold New England winters have made this cat very well adapted to cold weather" really mean? Are we talking about natural selection here? If so, say so, and tell us how that's come about. See sites below that's why they're there.

What are the sources for the possible origin of the name (which sound a little dubious)? See below for this one as well.

There are other areas which could undoubtedly benefit from rephrasing. The fact that individual editors might not immediately know how to improve them does not detract from that observation, nor does the clean up tag detract from the article. On the contrary, give it a few days, and it will probably be much improved. TheMadBaron 20:19, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Just to prove the point, I've edited somewhat.... tell me that any one of those changes doesn't improve the flow of the text, and I'll happily argue til the cats come home. :) TheMadBaron 20:35, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

I'm not going to let this bother me anymore. I for one don't think those things are important enough for me to to scramble and find that for you and certainly don't think they're important enough to have that ugly tag marring the page. I am not going to waste my time coming up with info that others think is important. You want it? You find it and put it on the page. A simply google search (or looking on those web pages I found) would answer all your questions, but I have better things to do than to fix problems that only other people feel exist. If you don't want to take the time either that's fine, let it rest for a couple days but that tag should be gone by then. I'm done talking about this. AM I protective? yeah, I've put time into this article and I hate to see it being tagged like this when it really is not deserving of a tag. It needs work. Sure, all pages do, but its hard to say an article that is not this short needs to be cleaned up. I've looked at the other pages on the clean up list and this page is simply not like those. This entire episode just seems unjustified as this apge has existe din its previous form for so lon without ANY complaints and only compliments. Oh well, I'll wait it out, maybe you or Prea can make more of your changes and then we can move on. Oh and great edits! What's you point? I can go to any page and improve it, does that mean it needs to be tagged? That's my point, I have no problem with almost of all these edits, but to tag it isn't justified. We don't tag every page that needs some (now) minor edits and you're now only making minor edits. Take the tag off and I'll happily and quietly watch your great edits all day.Gator1 20:42, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

Allright Igave in and find out some of the things you think the article needs. Polish them up any way you se fit, but I think they answered your questions. Let me know and no hard feelings. Kay?Gator1 20:56, September 6, 2005 (UTC)

Well,the good news is that I think you've answered my questions very well, and I think the article is much better for it - so much so that I'm going to remove the tag. The bad news is that I think we've just worked together to prove that Praetorian42 was right to add the tag in the first place. :P If Praetorian42 puts it back, and gives reasons, then they might well be worth listening to....

If you are aware of articles more deserving of a tag than this was, you should certainly tag them - the tags improve the standard of Misplaced Pages - there's no need for anybody to take them as a personal insult. TheMadBaron 22:13, 6 September 2005 (UTC)

Nothing personal about it. However, for the record, I didn't make those changes becuase I thought they were in any way necessary, I made them to get you off this pages back and remove the tag. It worked, so let's move on.

• Much better. =) Praetorian42 20:27, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

The cleaned up article looks good, however I think the following info removed from the old behavioural characteristics section may perhaps have a place:

• Tend to trill when happy or startled.
• Some Maine Coons enjoy playing with, but not usually in, water. They may dip toys in their water bowls before playing with them, or just tip the water bowl over. They may also "fish" in their water bowl.
• Maine Coons can occasionally be a bit mischievous when bored, such as deliberately pushing things off tables and the tops of fridges with their paws.

The above I think are general characteristics, and the following is a characteristic of my particular Maine coon cat, but I don't know if it's generally applicable to coons:

• Some of the males tend to be quite goofy, and a bit clumsy.

Is there a place for any of the above in the current revision of the article? -- All the best, Nickj (t) 00:19, 8 September 2005 (UTC)

I think so and I would support you putting it back. It was really just two people who wanted it out (actually only one person changed it) and used the cleanup tag to extort the changes. If you put it back I will support you.Gator1 12:41, September 8, 2005 (UTC)

• The reasons I removed those behavioral characteristics are twofold: 1) They may be considered too specific (this article isn't supposed to be comprehensive, but just to give an overview of the breed), and 2) Were phrased casually. Maybe if the wording were improved and the characteristics generalized a little bit more, it would be OK. 64.238.113.82 16:16, 8 September 2005 (UTC)
  • I don't think there's a problem with this article being comprehensive - in fact, I think it's a good thing for an article to be comprehensive, as long it remains interesting and correct. And along with their physical characteristics, their behavioural characteristics are what make them unique, so I don't think it's problem to include more details in this section. I think the phrasing of the first 3 points above is okay currently (or at least they seem okay to me), but I don't know how to improve the phrasing of the last one, so I've left that out. However any changes or improvements to the phrasing of the additions are most welcome. -- All the best, Nickj (t) 09:20, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

Nice pictures

What a fascinating article! I have never seen a Maine Coon and I am just amazed that such a beautiful cat exists. Thank you for the picture of the Maine Coon cat next to the normal housecat. I did check the links, but do wonder if it would it be possible to find more pictures of the Coons along side their diminutive cousins?  :-) Aloysius Patacsil 04:59, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

I have a picture of Maine coon with another cat, unfortunately it’s a rather large black and white mix breed of some kind that weighs about 15lbs… next to a pedigree (at least looks like a pedigree) Maine coon of 20lbs, obviously the difference in size is not striking. --BerserkerBen 01:03, 7 September 2005 (UTC)

Health risks?

An anon user posted this:

"- A genetic predisposition towards hypertrophic cardiomyopathy has appeared in a portion of the Maine Coon population. If left untreated this condition can result in sudden death of what appears to be an otherwise healthy animal. - - Because many vets will only test for this condition if a heart murmur is detected (which is not a reliable indicator), Maine Coon owners should insist on regular cardiac ultrasounds of pets between the ages of 3 and 6, when the pets are at highest risk."

I have never heard of this and I wanted to see if anyone else had. I reverted because I think something like this needs a reliable cite, because I know that with all pure breeds of cat (or dog) there are at least as many rumors of health risks as there are actual health risks. Any info on this would be appreciated.Gator1 21:17, September 10, 2005 (UTC)

Looks like it might be real - the primary health problems seem to be Hypertrophic cardiomyopathy (google query), and hip dysplasia (google query). (Example of medical overview). And according to this site they occasionally also get Polycystic Kidney Disease.-- All the best, Nickj (t) 09:33, 14 September 2005 (UTC)

New picture

I added this picture, because it illustrates well, I think, the "mane" reference above and while the tri-colored cat was interesting, the white coon above (as well as the text) already illustrates that they come in a variety of colors, other than tabby.Gator1 20:50, 24 September 2005 (UTC)

Weight

I agree, you don't need the "over" in the weight section. I've seen two or three 25 pounders at cat shows, and even here in Texas we haven't been able to grow a Maine Coon much bigger without being fat. Pschemp 06:40, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

Pictures

Do we need to discuss the picture situation? It seems that it's getting a bit crowded. Do others share this sentiment and, if so, how many pics should we have and which ones? I don't think any should be removed until we discuss this but I also suggerst that a freeze be put on anymore being added. ThoughtsGator(talk) 13:23, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

I agree...no more for the time being and there are probably too many already. Pschemp 16:32, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

So if there are too many. Which ones should I take out. I could just remove the most recent ones and leave three, but that seems a bit arbitrary. Any thoughts? My vote: 1st 3d and 4th ones. 1st shows the "ruff" or mane" the third shows the size and the 4th shows a different color. The 2d isn't all that amazing to me and the last one just looks like a domestic cat on someone's porch (interesting colors though, but the 4th one takes care of that). Any thoughts or votes?Gator(talk) 16:47, 2 November 2005 (UTC)

Thank you for the many beautiful pictures. I would like to request that you please do not remove the pictures; they are informative and provide many a therapeutic moment in the private hell of my office. Aloysius Patacsil 17:56, 2 November 2005 (UTC)