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Do we know for CERTAIN that Socrates existed? My understanding was that that issue was still up in the air. --Dante Alighieri 01:05 Dec 5, 2002 (UTC)

Not at all. Perahps it would be if he was only known from Plato's dialogues, but he's discussed by the historian Xenophon and mocked by the comic Aristophanes, possibly among others.

Unless there was another Socrates, he's also mentioned by Thucydides. Adam Bishop 00:56, 11 Oct 2003 (UTC)

Not a critical point, but regarding Socrates' marriage, I guess there are some conflicting views. Namely, Xanthippe may or may not be the only wife.

The following page discusses the issue rather in detail. http://www.chss.montclair.edu/english/furr/socrates/wpages39toendpt1.html

See also: http://www.cnu.edu/academics/phil/carr/SocraBio.htm http://www.san.beck.org/Plato-Intro.html

Tomos 17:37 Jan 31, 2003 (UTC)

Demos and democracy

What is the basis for the claim that Socrates supported the democracy?

Nonexistent, IMO. -- Cimon Avaro on a pogostick 12:42, Oct 28, 2003 (UTC)

He fought for his country (rather, his polis) when it was under military attack, but his scorn for democracy would seem to have come out again and again. Is his admiration for the life of Sparta and Crete universally consdiered to be a fabrication? Again, "enemy" would seem rather a strong term for Critias' attitude toward him: that fellow's enemies tended to suffer something rather worse than being allowed to go home and keep their mouths shut.

That phrasing is from my keyboard, and I agonized over it. I don't think "estranged" covers it, nor "disfavour". Finally I plumped for "enemy", half in frustration, half in the hope that someone would come and moderate the statement with a more apposite phrasing, because I could not. The fact remains that he (Critias) did not remain part of Socrates' circle, and there was some degree of animus between them due to the (lack of) Socrates' role in the 30 tyrants fracas. -- CAoap

While we're up, is "satirical distortions" (of Aristophanes) a reasonable term? All satire tends to distort, after all; the reader, knowing this, is invited to think that these were more distorted than those of, say, Voltaire or Swift—a highly debatable view. Dandrake 01:45, Oct 28, 2003 (UTC)

Hope my recent edits addressed this problem. If not, feel free to adjust the phrasing. What this article lacks BTW is coverage of the whole 30 tyrants thing, and also Socrates as the prytanie (sp?) during the judicial murder of the generals of the Sicilian campaign. I've been meaning to get to it for a long time. I've got most of my sources pretty well organized, but this article is just so central, that I a a bit intimidated of making an extensive addition. I know I shouldn't, but the fact remains. -- CAoap

And perhaps someone can speak to the association b/t Plato's family and one of the Tyrants? +sj+

Apostrophes' Troublemaking

Looks as if we're in for an apostrophe dispute. I reverted a change that added back an s to Socrates' after another person had removed them all. It is traditional in many places to use the form Socrates' , so much so that the Chicago Manual of Style used to list Jesus, Moses, and Socrates as exceptions to the usual rule of adding 's to words and names ending in s. The latest edition goes further: generally, Greek names in s get only the apostrophe.

Perhaps this is a trans-Atlantic difference in usage. But before the international incidents get under way, will supporters of Socrates's please give some citations? Dandrake 17:39, Mar 4, 2004 (UTC)

No desire for a dispute here! Hi, Beowulf king. I didn't notice that just before my edit you had removed all the final possessive esses; good to know Chicago has a special category for Greek names. As a proofreader, I'm most glad to have learned another acceptable usage case. +sj+ 08:40, 2004 Mar 8 (UTC)

Actually, I got it wrong, from memory, though close enough for this purpose. What they really say: "Names of more than one syllable with an unaccented ending pronounced -eez"; and then there are Jesus' and Moses' cases as well. Dandrake 22:28, Mar 8, 2004 (UTC)

Thanks for the double-check. I suppose Moses and Jesus both have unaccended last syllables. So if a hispanic user named JeSUS starts posting, we can safely have this argument again? +sj+ 08:16, 2004 Mar 9 (UTC)

And more and more

However, the person whose unacceptable user name has been canceled (thanks, Ed) was right in the substance of the personal-attack comment that has been deleted per policy (thanks again): there are four Cardinal Virtues in Christian tradition, and I've never heard of the existence of a comparable earlier list with any number of entries. So I'm changing the text, subject to correction by anyone who have find a calssic Greek list of five. Dandrake 19:55, Mar 5, 2004 (UTC)

Socrates and Hemlock

The article on Hemlock contains the following statement:

The Greek philosopher Socrates supposedly drank one of above toxic hemlocks to fulfil his execution sentence. However, this story is now known to be a myth, although Socrates is commonly linked to this form of suicide.

Does anyone have any modern references which can verify or disprove this statement that the story is a myth? WormRunner | Talk 03:48, 13 Apr 2004 (UTC)