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Revision as of 03:49, 11 December 2010

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/Archive 1

Splattergate listed at Redirects for discussion

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Your GA nomination of Watts Up With That?

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Roger Scruton

Hi Jrpw, can I ask that you please stop removing pertinent material from Scruton? Almost every edit you've made there has been to promote him in some way. I think if you want to do that—in the sense of wanting to present an accurate picture—the best way is to start building up the article about his philosophy. We say almost nothing about it, but if we had a fuller account of his thinking, then the details you don't like would be viewed in context. The way to write a good BLP is to give a full and rounded picture of the person. I'd be willing to help you with it. SlimVirgin 19:42, 3 November 2010 (UTC)

"Almost every edit you've made there has been to promote him in some way". Not true; however, it could be argued that almost all the edits you've made have been to detract from him in some way (you clearly don't like him or his views). So I think that collaboration might not work in practice, but thanks for the offer. Plus, I don't have your stamina. Jprw (talk) 05:54, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Actually it's not true that I don't like him. I have his work to thank in part for getting a first in my Kant final, so I've always had a soft spot for him. :) SlimVirgin 06:00, 4 November 2010 (UTC)

Scruton again

You've reverted the tobacco material—either removing the section entirely or removing the key details—13 times since August 2010, reverting against multiple editors. You've been blocked twice because of it, once for 3RR and once for block evasion. There has been consensus on talk that the details are appropriate, and this was confirmed on September 5 at the BLP noticeboard, which is where I first saw it. Despite that, you've continued to revert:

Aug 28, Sept 4, Sept 5, Sept 5, Sept 8, Sept 9, Sept 9, Sept 9, Sept 9, Sept 9, 72-block for violation of 3RR, Sept 10, added three POV tags as 95.27.94.16, Sept 11, 5-day block for block evasion, Oct 12, Oct 12, Dec 4, Dec 4.

Every time you revert, you draw more attention to it and cause more discussion. As soon as the discussion is archived by the bot, you start reverting again. SlimVirgin 09:02, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

See the Scruton discussion page for a response to this -- as for the block, I believe that this was shamefully orchestrated by yourself (I was trying to remove contentious material as per WP:BLP) and it was through your friendships with the Admin that you escaped censorship yourself -- a most disgraceful episode. If you recall, I asked on numerous occasions why you had not been blocked over the reverts and was met with a wall of silence from both yourself, other editors , and admin. Your behaviour is deeply mendacious and disingenuous. Please do not comment on my talk page again, you are not welcome here. Jprw (talk) 09:15, 4 December 2010 (UTC)

Hi,

Thanks for your efforts to keep Misplaced Pages balanced and truthful. I noticed the attack on me in the Roger Scruton discussion pages by Slim Virgin, and so wrote a reply to her criticisms, only to discover that she has now blocked me from replying to her accusations! So I am blocked from contributing to the Scruton article, blocked from making any comments on her changes, and now blocked from defending myself from her attacks on me! Nasty does not capture it!

I have posted below the reply I wrote (with an additional comment on top!) which I have now posted on the Philip Rieff talk page. She knows she has a very poor case. I believe that small groups of Misplaced Pages editors are trying to subvert Misplaced Pages. The Left seem have a real problem hearing alternative points of view. They just seem to want to write propaganda. As it happens a friend of mine and myself are close to launching a software business, which "could" become extremely profitable, and we are currently discussing whether or not we should make a very large donation to Misplaced Pages if our business takes off as hoped. Needless to add I am very much against making any such donation now. Thanks again for your efforts.

Plagiarism!

It seems that SlimVirgin has now banned me from replying to her criticisms on the Roger Scruton talk page! What a truly nasty woman. I therefore give my reply (given that she is mainly talking about this article) on this talk page.

I am very familiar with Philip Rieff's writings. I have several of his books (6 to be precise - nearly all his output) and I am happy to discuss with others who are familiar with his work (which of course excludes the increasingly hysterical "Slim Virgin" whose knowledge of the writer being discussed is as usual approximately zero) what is the best short summary of his ideas, but SlimVirgin has now blocked my access to the Rieff article as well!

I recall there was an existing entry (written by others) on Philip Rieff which I updated by adding some information on his last books (not "Charisma" that I can recall but certainly his "Sacred Order/Social Order" trilogy) the summary of which I took directly from my reading of his books. I also recall adding (in the hope that I was improving them) to the summaries that people had already given of his previous books.

"Slim Virgin" objects that some of the phrases used (I presume my additions) in the summaries were taken (without acknowledgement) from a summary of these books already given by David Glen. I think it is wholly appropriate that David Glen should get a reference, and as far as I am aware nobody is disputing that an addition of a reference to David Glen would be an improvement, and that it would have been better if I had made an explicit reference to his summaries, but I do not think that SlimVirgin has quite grasped the fact that David Glen (at least in those phrases that were used in his summaries of his early books) is supplying a precis of the words and sentences and paragraphs and thoughts of David Rieff! What is being attempted by David Glen (and the Misplaced Pages article on Philip Rieff) in other words is a short summary of the contents of the early books by Philip Rieff. The focus is not on David Glen or myself, or on anybody else, except David Rieff! The most important question is - Is it an accurate summary of the words, sentences, and paragraphs and thoughts written by David Rieff?

In "The Triumph of the Therapeutic: Uses of Faith After Freud" Rieff does indeed argue that Freud's renegade disciples disciples, Carl Jung, Wilhelm Reich, D.H. Lawrence, failed to grasp his fundamental pessimism, and instead spun off utopian fantasies about cultural liberation. More broadly, Rieff did indeed warn that urbanization and modernity were giving rise to a hollow gospel of self-fulfilment, and that the central fact of our age is the emergence of psychological man, a figure with no sense of duty, and little sense of history. When talking about Kant Rieff does claim that an authentic religious culture is not about the citizens' intellectual understanding of rules of right and wrong, but about structures of authority, myth, and meaning that are so deep that people are only half-aware of them. A lot of that is a direct paraphrase of Rieff's own words. It is a summary in short by David Glen of Rieff. In other words it is a reliable summary of what Rieff is saying in those early books. All credit to David Glen for producing an accurate brief summary, or at least, credit should have been given to David Glen, but it is precisely because they are an accurate summary of David Rieff's words that they ended up being used in the Misplaced Pages entry.

Looking at the Glen article I note the phrase explaining Rieff's use of Samuel Taylor Coleridge's notion of the "clerisy", that is, an informal class of learned people who preserve and maintain a country's cultural heritage, also came from David Glen. I do not know if SlimVirgin is familiar with Coleridge, but Samuel Taylor Coleridge does talk about a "clerisy" which is the informal class of learned people who preserve and maintained a country's cultural heritage. That probably explains why I used that phrase. I have no objection to David Glen getting credit for using that precise sequence of words, although I am wondering why the use of such a straightforward definition of what clerisy means without crediting David Glen for putting together that exact phrase is causing SlimVirgin such hysterics?

Slim Virgin then complains that I "did the same in the Scruton article" copying Roger Scruton's words without in-text attribution (although she admits that I provided citations) and sees herself as very loving and tolerant for not removing it. I have to remind myself at this point that it is an article about Roger Scruton. It is not about me, or SlimVirgin, it is about the words, sentences, paragraphs, and thoughts of Roger Scruton." Yet again the key question is - Are they an accurate summary or not? The complaint is not that they are inaccurate, it is that they are too accurate because they are taken from his words!

She then repeats the false allegation that I am User Yorkshirian (on the grounds that somebody once said it) and that I was banned from contributing to the talk page on Right-Wing politics (another lie) or at least I should have been for being so rude, and tops it off with her claim that I "cannot be trusted" - her clinching evidence for this being that I too closely based my summary of Roger Scruton on his actual words.

This would be laughable if it were not so pathetic.

P.S It seems that the phrase "The book uses 39 paintings and other artworks as launching points for meditations on what Mr. Rieff calls the "third culture" -- an empty, permissive realm where no authority is recognized." (which is nearly all a direct quote from Mr Rieff is also mentioned

(85.211.84.10 (talk) 03:49, 11 December 2010 (UTC)).